bankei

Encouraging others to stop making merit by giving is creating very bad karma for you Bankei....and especially shocking since you were ordained once!

Alms round isn't about what you get but giving the people the opportunity to make merit.

The fine opportunities to make merit here by being surrounded by monks and temples is one of the great things Thai people have. In the UK the few monks at the few temples cannot go on alms round because the local community is Christian.

Having wrong view is damaging for oneself, but teaching others to have wrong view is very strong karma.

Despite the numbers of bad monks here the lay people generally get what they deserve. Standards have slipped in the last 50 years as Thailand has modernised and it is also the lay people who have allowed it to happen.

If they stop supporting all monks the few good ones cannot survive either and Buddhism will soon disappear from Thailand.

I am not suggesting people stop giving. I beleive giving is good. I suggest people give to those most deserving.

Bankei

I like to go to a wat where I can perform circumambulations (walk around) of the Buddha statue - this is yet another form of offering and respect, which also creates merit.

Hello Jawnie

How does walking around a statue create merit?

I have tried to releive my hunger by reciting a recipe book, but it doesn't work. Maybe I should try circumambulating it?

Bankei

The whole 'dana' issue has gotten out of hand. Far removed from the Buddha's teachings.

These days the there is a whole industry with financial interests in promoting gifts to monks. Firstly we have the monks themselves who preach that the only way for a person to make merit is to give to the sangha (ie to them!). Then we have the merchants who promote the gifting of useless buckets contain useless things that will never be used. On the monring almsrounds laity donate so much food, and in particular rice, that most of it goes to waste.

When I was a monk I needed an alms bowel, a bag, a plastic bag and a helper to help me carry the food collected. Every other monk got the same amount. Sometimes we had to recruit people to help drive the food back. The monks ate a little bit and some was given to lay people at the temple. Then rest was fed to the dogs and cats of the temple and the rest thrown out. Huge amounts of rice was thrown out each day.

The lay people think they can be bad and then just gift to the monks to make all this kamma disappear. Buddhism in Thailand has been changed into a new religion of ritualised gift giving to priests.

I urge people not to give to monks. They have enough as it is and they don't deserve or need anymore.

Bankei

The problem is with Thai Buddhism as they dont allow woman to be a monk as enjoined by Lord Buddha.

However a woman monk cannot use makeup.

Not sure how you got this.

I know two women who went to be monks for a spell.

You just don't see them walking around asking for alms etc.

Althought nothing to do with Katoy monks, there are now large numbers of fully ordained nuns (Bhikkhuni) in Thailand. Not as many as the white robed Mee Chi but the numbers are increasing. Nuns/novice nuns/bhikkhuni, mee chi as well as novice/monks are not supposed to wear make up or perfumes etc. These are part of the 8 precepts.

I just had a steak in Japan. I feel sick now!

Buddhists do not pray......The Buddha is not our version of God.....instead we pay respects to our greatest teacher. It is merituous to pay respect to those who deserve respect.....parents, teachers, elderly, monks etc.

But Buddhists do pray. To many, if not most?, Thais the Buddha is some sort of cosmic granter of wishes. In Ayuthaya there is even a large reclining Buddha who is prayed to for business related wishes.

I used to admire the so called forest tradition many years ago. More than 20 years ago I went up to Wat Pa Nanachat hoping to ordain, but I was quickly put off by the attitude of the monks there. Many have strange attitudes for Buddhists. Huge egos and attachment to their interpretations and practice of vinaya by the book. Totally lacking in the spirit of the teachings.

Now the Forest tradition, especially that of the Chah sect, is a vast global corporation with huge wealth and control. Ascetic monks fly around the globe for meetings with their only concern being whether they can eat their airline meal because of the change in time zones.

For me the local money handling monks are much better exemplars of the Buddhas teachings

Bankei

Reciting the Pali stanzas below is traditionally considered establishing one as a Buddhist.

Buddham Saranam Gacchami

Dhammam saranam gacchami

Sangham saranam gacchami

Dutiyampi Buddham Saranam Gacchimi

Dutiyampi Buddham Saranam Gacchami

Dutiyampi Buddham Saranam Gacchami

Tatiyampi Buddham Saranam Gacchami

Tatiyampi Buddham Saranam Gacchami

Tatiyampi Buddham Saranam Gacchami

I go to the Buddha for refuge

I go to the Dhamma for refuge

I go to the Sangha for refuge

a second time....

a third time.....

The cult of the relics in Buddhism is very early and is widespread, but I wonder what the Buddha would think about it now? He would probably role over in his stupa (or his stupas).

Actually, from what I've read, the Buddha had some say in where his relics, or remains would be distributed.

Yes, in the Mahaparinibanna Sutta the Buddha is reported to have given instructions for his body to be cremated and the bones/ashes to be split into 8 and given to various rulers to prevent them fighting over his remains.

There are also a lot of relics floating around that are from famous monks such as Achan Chah etc.

Bankei

I think the problem is Buddhism in Thailand revolves too much around buying ones way to a better rebirth through donations. The attitude seems to be it doesn't matter what I do during the week I can always make up for it by making donations.

I think it's a Thai problem rather than a Buddhist or Theravadin problem. In Burma for example there is a much greater emphasis on lay pople meditating, and few people have the money to try and buy their way to heavan.

One can only start with ones own heart.

This is another problem....there are ten different way to make merit but the Thais are often only taught about giving....Dana...by many monks. None of the other types require spending money, but some do require effort and time, and are much more difficult, so earn much more merit, such as chanting and meditation.... and keeping precepts.

sidenote, I once met a man in Japan on route to the sacred Mount Koya (shingon Buddhism). He said he didn't practice, but that was ok as his wife did - implying the family unit was the one receiving merit and not the individual.

The cult of the relics in Buddhism is very early and is widespread, but I wonder what the Buddha would think about it now? He would probably role over in his stupa (or his stupas).

Strange behaviour for an 'arahat'.

Here are two interesting articles on the treatment of monks in movies - mostly Thai related movies.

Monks in the movies

Whether saints or sinners, tough guys or buffoons, the men in saffron remain a staple of siamese cinema

http://www.bangkokpost.com/arts-and-culture/film/220543/monks-in-the-movies

Justin McDaniel

The Emotional Lives of Buddhist Monks in Modern Thai Film

Journal of Religion and Film

Vol. 14, No. 2 October 2010

http://www.unomaha.edu/jrf/vol14.no2/McDanielEmtionBuddhist.html

Bankei

Why do some buddhists worship hindu gods?

I've often asked the same question. When I first came to Thailand 20 years ago I expected to find monks following the vinaya and practicing pure authentic Buddhism.

Firstly, there is no such thing as 'pure' Buddhism. What could pure Buddhism be? Is is only that which is written in the Pali Canon? Would chanting or Buddha statues be classifiable as Buddhist practices if they are not mentioned in the scriptures?

This creates problems as the canon is vast with different types of Buddhism justifiable by different suttas or different interpretations. What about the various commentarial interpretations too? Worshiping gods could possibly be justified by reference to the Pali scriptures.

Then you have to consider that Pali Buddhism is only one version of the early Buddhisms - and is it really that early?

What is Hinduism? This is a western invention that is applied to a number of Indian religions. Many 'Hindus' will tell you that Buddhism is a part of Hinduism. Many Brahmanical gods such as Brahma (พรหม) appear in the Pali scriptures constantly - though I don't think Ganesh appears. Does that make Brahma a Buddhist diety?

Then you have to look at history. Brahmanical religions were very common in Thailand and Khmer regions for hundreds of years so you could say the religion is ingrained in Thai society.

People will also follow what they think works for them If the worshipping of gods didn't produce results (or appear to) then the worship would have stopped years ago.

Bankei

You have one bad experience and conclude all Thais are the same?

Hi

There are at least 4 ways that robes are worn in Thailand:

1. 'hom dong' = one shoulder covered with robe folded and belt tied around waist over robe + Outer robe is folded over the left shoulder

2. 'hom chiang khiaw = robe rolled and cover one shoulder

3. 'hom koom' = both shoulders covered

4. 'hom mongoon' = both shoulders covered. more difficult rolling technique.

No 1 is only done by Mahanikaya monks. This is done at ceremonial occasions.

No 2 is the usual way to dress in the temple

No 3 is the way when going out on bindabart and outside the temple in general.

No 4 is the same as 3, but not many monks can manage this technique.

Dhammayut monks don't wear the No. 1, but instead just wear their robes in No. 2 and put the outer robe folded over the shoulder for ceremonial occasions. Some Mahanikay monks do this as well, including the monks of the Acharn Chah group.

Some monks in the north also use the outer robe when going out on bindabart by placing it over the inner robe and wrapping it around the body in no 3 style, ie a double robe.

BTW, the Japanese Buddhist traditions, including Zen, don't follow the vinaya and are not ordained as Bhikkhu/Bhikkhuni. So they don't follow the same, or even similar rules. I recall flying from Japan to Bangkok with a Japanese Buddhist delegation and the Japanese 'monk' drinking on the plan being redfaced and drunk when meeting a welcoming party of Thai monks.

It so happens I went to Starbucks at the Queen Sirikit Centre this morning, a bit before midday, and just ahead of me was a Thai monk ordering a drink and sandwich. He then paid for this with his own money.

I had no objection to this, even though it's quite clearly contrary to the Patimokkha, as I think the Patimokkha needs substantial revision and should be ignored on some points. The guy needed to eat and it was approaching noon.

What got to me, however, was that, after paying for his lunch and being served it on a tray, he pulled out a Starbucks pamphlet and placed it under the tray so he wouldn't have to receive it directly from a female. Handling money is fine, apparently, but to receive something from feminine hands is just too much!

Oh well ... different strokes for different folks.

Yes, that is interesting considering there is nothing in the vinaya that says a monk cannot receive something directly from a woman.

I have been a monk in Thailand and have been coming and going for over 20 years, and I have yet to be impressed with any monks I have met. Some of the monks that impressed me the least were ones who scrupulously followed the rules (some of them) to the letter.

Bankei

I must say what a ridiculous post jikwan.

Firstly you are generalising about all Thais being the same and then all Asians being the same. That is like saying all British are racist because some are.

Secondly your example - is buying cigarettes generally considered a secret? Even in a so-called 'strict' monastery. There is no restrictions on monks smoking either, so why would a layman be restricted?

For my secrets I tell certain people I chose to - not based on their DNA, but on my relationship with them and my assessment on how big the secret is and how likely i judge if they are going to keep it.

Bankei

ps - you can't trust Thais!

This is ridiculous. Jail for selling a key ring!!!

(ps What about key chains of Mohammed?)

I don't think there is anything evil about money or women. Its what you do with them that may lead to problems.

Handling money is not such a bad thing. I know of Dhammayut monks who pride themselves on not handling money, but they may have bank accounts and money in envelopes so that they don't physically touch it. Its the same thing to me.

Don't forget Buddhism is the middle way betwen extremes. The monks in the lineage of Achan Chah who also pride themselves on their avoidance of money to the extent they are attached to their views. They would not even touch the bag of a non Chah monk fearing it had money inside - this is an extreme view in my opinion. (They also fly around the world for various meetings, memorial days, birthdays etc at great expense - but they don't 'handle' the money). At the other end of the extreme are monks who have great savings or treat the monkhood as a job. This is also an extreme to be avoided.

Also note that the Buddha said, in the Mahaparinibbana Sutta, that the minor rules could be abolished after his death. handling money, or gold and silver, is a minor rule.

So I think it doesn't really hurt for a money to touch money or to use money in a minor way. But it would be wrong to save money, or for a preceptor to 'charge' 3,000B per ordination ceremony (per person!). Monks shouldn't ask for money and if they do you should not give them but avoid them I think.

Wonder how he got to England?

Wonder what the Buddha would think about this.

Kudroz seems to know what he is talking about.

If the op is an Australian resident for tax purposes if won't matter where he resides, he will still be up for declaring the income in his tax return. There may be credits for tax paid overseas and there may be double tax agreements between Australia and Thailand - I am not sure. Australian residents are assessed on their worldwide income.

To become a non-resident for tax purposes (from Australia) he will need to satisfy the criteria which is complex, but it is determined on factors such as:

- where you are domiciled (eg you must intend to base your home permanently overseas).

- time spent in Australia

- where your 'home' is

Income tax (from Australia) will depend on a few factors, such as:

- type of income

- where the income is derived

- whether you are a resident for tax purposes (different rates than residents).

If you want to set up a company overseas then your company could still be deemed to be a resident of Australia if,

- it carries on a business in Australia, or

- it is controled in Australia - this would include being controlled by shareholders who are aussie residents.

Bankei

You should look at the double taxation agreements between thailand and australia (if there is one) and see if residency is defined.

Here is another resource:

The U.S. Foreign Service Institute teaches foreign languages to government

diplomats and personnel for duties abroad—and its courses are available

online, for free. Which means you can access audio, texts, and tests in 41

different languages

http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php

Thai at http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php?page=Thai