Kerryd

Let's put it this way.
A Canadian criminal (Michael Karas) travelled to Thailand using "stolen" ID in 1995. A year later he murdered the woman he'd been living with, dismembered her body and threw the pieces in a local (Pattaya) swamp.

He then hopped on a plane (still using that "stolen" ID) and flew back to Canada before the authorities had identified him as the killer.
He was arrested in Canada (for violating his probation) and sent back to prison. Thailand requested his extradition. He confessed to some robberies he'd done that the police had listed as "cold cases". That added a few years to his sentence but eventually he was extradited back to Thailand.

He was tried and convicted and sent to Bang Kwan prison for life. (As per normal in Thailand, no public record of his trial or what sentence he was actually given at the time. However, if I recall from older stories, it would have been a death sentence for murdering the woman and another death sentence for mutilating her face and dismembering her body.

However, 5 years to the day later, his lawyer and some loser reporter at a Canadian newspaper (the Toronto Sun) concocted a story about how he shouldn't have been convicted of murder. They argued it should have been manslaughter at best. (They ignored that he'd mutilated her face to try and prevent identification as well as forgetting to mention he'd dismembered her body and threw it into a swamp.)
They claimed he'd been in prison for "half a decade" already - because that sounded worse than "5 years". Karas and his lawyer wanted Canada to approve his transfer back to Canada and decided that he should be released immediately upon arrival. 

The Liberal "Public Safety Minister" (Ralph Goodale) rubber-stamped the transfer, as he'd done with every single transfer that crossed his desk while in office.
Despite having been personally informed of who Karas was, his criminal record before going to Thailand and what exactly he'd been convicted of.

He had a flunkly from Corrections Canada inform me that Karas' case would be reviewed and he would be under "proper supervision" (ect ect, I still have their letter on file).

Less than 1 year later he was arrested in Winnipeg (Manitoba) for a string of bank robberies he'd done in Ontario. It seems that he was transferred (in secret) back to Canada within days of the transfer request being submitted and approved. He was then released, free and clear, within weeks of being back in Canada.

And he immediately resumed his previous career of robbing banks. (Seems he was given about 15 years in prison for those robberies. So he got more time in Canada for robbing a couple of banks than he did in Thailand for murdering, mutilating and dismembering a young woman.)

Keep in mind that whenever a foreigner receives a death penalty sentence in Thailand, it is usually immediately commuted to a Life sentence at the trial or when the next Royal Pardon is given.

So if Spain has a Prisoner Transfer agreement with Thailand, they could apply for a transfer, probably 5 years after conviction. As long as Thailand and Spain (and the prisoner) agree, he'd be sent home "to serve the remainder of his sentence". What happens after he arrives in his home country is up to the Corrections system there.

(In many cases of prisoner transfers, the felon may be released upon arrival as their crime may warrant a lighter sentence - or no conviction at all - in their home countries. As well, "home" justice systems may be more sympathetic and easier to $$$$, er, I mean, "sway" when it comes to sentences handed to one of their citizens for something they did in a foreign country.)

Lol - like increasing the amount needed for a Retirement Visa/Extension to 1.2 mil will somehow deter "criminals" from entering the country or staying here. All it would do is make things harder for the honest people, which make up the majority of the expats in the country (despite what some barstool proppers like to pretend).

And consider how many of the criminals don't have visas or valid passports to begin with. And if an "agent" can somehow get around the 400k in the bank all year, then I suspect they'd be able to get around any other new requirement as well.

Changing the rules won't solve a thing. If anything, it will just mean that there'll be even more criminals as they won't care about the rules anyways but the ordinary, honest expats will be forced to leave.

Can't say too much because Thailand has no "free speech" laws. Quite the opposite in fact. 

Even if you speak the truth about someone, backed up with facts and indisputable evidence, you can still be sued for defamation. That and the lese majesty laws have kept most of the rich from facing any real punishment for their deeds for decades.

And the mighty military government has done nothing to change that. Then again, by the time you reach General rank, you are more likely to be a part of the problem and not the solution to it so it pretty much was to be expected that they wouldn't actually change anything anyways.

Funny because in 2019 the number of "arrivals" was nearly 40 million.

Now they are saying it was only 10 million "tourists" ?

I guess the other 30 million "arrivals" were Thais coming back from holidays in other countries.

Makes you wonder what took him so long to realize he'd forgotten his "bag of valuables" if it was that important.

And by identifying the nationality of the passenger it certain cut down on the number of "just another privileged American" or "soused Brit" posts, didn't it ?

44 minutes ago, IamNoone88 said:

There is a motive somewhere out there .. you do not end up like this without a reason.

The previous article said something about a land deal on Koh Samui worth around 700 million baht.

It was noted in the previous thread that the victim had been involved in shady business before (namely being the "customer" of a Thai pimp that had supplied him with an underaged girl).

One of the first lessons I learned in Thailand.

Never be worth more dead than you are alive.

2nd thing I learned was that 9 out of 10 foreigners in this country can barely afford to live here and they would dearly love to have your money in their pocket.

And will come up with all manner of scams and "tear jerking" stories to try and get your money into their pocket.

Sheesh, my 74 year old buddy was scammed out of 10,000 last year by a "friend" (he met in a bar of course) who claimed he'd been arrested for overstaying and had to pay the police 10,000 baht or he'd be arrested and deported. Of course he would pay it back right away once he got his passport back (blah blah blah).

Even had my buddy meet him at Immigration to hand over the money (to him, not the police). And my buddy swore it was legit - because the guy was "his friend".
And then I asked if the guy had paid him back.
No.
I asked when the last time he saw him. 
That day at Immigration.

Even then he didn't want to believe the guy had just scammed him. I told him the guy was probably still in Pattaya, just drinking in a different bar in a different part of town for awhile.

And I never lend money to any of my Thai friends either. Do it once and instantly you go from friend to ATM machine. The difference is, if they owe you too much then suddenly you are worth more to them dead than you are alive.

Making, possessing and distributing porn is a crime in Thailand regardless of what you think about their laws.

Go find a "safe place" and cry your eyes out if that's a problem for you.

Section 287 of the Thai Penal Code:
“Whoever (1) for the purpose of trade of trade or by trade, for public distribution or exhibition, makes, produces, possesses, brings or causes to be brought into the kingdom, sends or causes to be sent out of the kingdom, brings or causes to bring, or spreads by any means whatever, any document, drawing, print, painting, printed matter, picture, poster, symbol, photograph, cinematograph film, audio or video tape or any other thing which is obscene, (2) carries on trade, or takes part or participates in the trade concerning the aforesaid obscene material or thing, distributes or exhibits to the public, or hires out such material or thing; (3) in order to assist the circulation or trading of the aforesaid obscene material or thing, advertises or spreads the news by any means whatsoever that there is a person committing the act which is an offence according to this Section, or advertises or spreads the news that the aforesaid obscene material or thing may be obtained from any person or by any means, shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding three years or fine not exceeding six thousand baht, or both.”

Bring porn into the country or making it in the country is illegal, as is sending it out (as in by mail or in luggage or electronically).
This apparently applies to things like "OnlyFans" type of sites if the "content" was created in Thailand.

And then there is the Computer Crime Act.

According to an article in the Thaiger from 2021:

• If an individual puts into a computer system where any computer data includes lewd appearance/obscenity/pornography and computer data that the general public may access under Section 14 (4) of the Computer Crime Act, shall be liable to imprisonment for not more than 5 years or a fine of not more than 100,000 baht, or both.
   
• For the purpose of trading, importing, producing, distributing pornography one shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three years or to a fine of not exceeding 60,000 baht or to both according to the Criminal Code Section 287.
  
  There have been numerous articles on ThaiVisa over the years about people being busted for making or possessing porn in Thailand.
  
  Some people who seem to have their heads permanently positioned in their own nether regions seem to think that because there are go-go bars and prostitues in Thailand that must mean anything goes.
  
  Others have that same old lame idea that "gee, that wouldn't be a problem "back home".
  
  They still have the absurd notion that the laws from their home country somehow apply in Thailand as well.
  
  Guess again. 
  
  Some years ago there was an incident in Pattaya that really hilighted the issue.
  Some foreigner (Brit or American) hired a woman from Beach Road to let him film them having sex. I think he agreed to pay her 3,000 baht.
  
  But when they were finished he gave her only 1000 and tossed her out of the room.
  
  She got her boyfriend and went back to the room where the boyfriend proceeded to beat the crap out of the foreigner. The cops came, heard the story - and arrested the foreigner !
  Because not only did he record himself having sex with the woman (basically making a porno) - he also had other videos on his laptop of him having sex with other women.
  
  And from the news article - the woman (who had admitted to engaging in prostitution) and the "boyfriend" never got charged at all !

5 minutes ago, Mickeymaus said:

Many of these people who give money are unaware that they make the situation worse. In addition the children are often borrowed to sit next to the beggar or they have to sell things like flowers. And according to their own statement the beggars earn up to 1000 baht a day:

They also work in a circuit around the city. For example, the legless woman that sits near the P72 bar (or in that general area) or the guy with the gimpy leg that sits a couple hundred meters away, will stay there for a few hours and then be gone.

Only to reappear on Soi 7, or Soi Buakhao, or Beach Road. Where they'll sit for a couple hours before that spot is "refreshed" by moving the old beggar to a new location and a "new" beggar to the old spot.

I've encounted the same beggars on Walking Street, Soi 7 and the Soi Buakhao market in the same day.

And like all beggars, buskers and con artists, they always clean out their begging bowl after getting a few donations, leaving a couple small coins in it to make people think that no one has given them anything.

And you know what ? I do give them the odd 20 when I see them. Because I can't imagine how sucky their life must be or what my life would be like if I ended up like them for some reason. Even "back home" your life would suck donkey balls if you lost your legs or were crippled in some other way.

I see Thai girls often do the same, drop some loose change or a small bill in their cup, to earn "merit". No amount of "merit" is going to help me but a tiny amount of money might help them. Pretty sure they aren't sleeping outside during the day or starving for food. 

And yeah, I don't doubt they make a fair bit of money on good days. Spending 12+ hours a day sitting in one spot or another, hoping people will give you some loose change because you know the gov't isn't going to help you one little bit. More likely to rob you and throw you in jail than show any support or compassion. If they are old enough they might get a measly 600 baht a month from the gov't. 

Most Westerners would have probably taken the one-way ticket to never-never land within weeks if they had to live like those beggars do.

But don't feel guilty about not giving them anything either !

Like Mickeymous says, they usually make quite a bit as it is. And I'm sure all the Indian and Chinese tourists (that Thailand wants to replace the "Westerners" ) are more than making up for any shortage of donations that may happen from having fewer high-spending "white" people in the country.

LoL - those "beggars" have been doing that for generations. I remember back in '93 when I'd be sitting at a beer bar and feel a tug on my pant leg and there'd be a little kid, always a girl, maybe what, 7 or 8 years old ?
She'd have a little plastic basket with a strap around her neck and the basket would be full of chewing gum and cigarette lighters.

And it wouldn't matter if it was 8 pm or 2 am, they'd still be going from bar to bar to bar.

I noticed though that "mom" was always close by, usually holding a clutch of wrapped roses and keeping an eye on the kid(s).

I guess the only real difference in the last 30 years is that for 29 of them, the authorities always said they were Cambodian, not Vietnamese. Long way for some Cong to go to beg on the streets of Pattaya. Especially when Vietnam get's it's fair share of foreign tourists already.

Loved the part where it say "has ruined the city’s reputation" !

Not the garbage. Not the continuous tearing up of the streets and sidewalks or the crappy sidewalks that are never repaired, or the traffic, or the annual flooding, or the thieving ladyboys, or the corruption.

Nope. It's the small number of "Vietnamese" beggars selling flowers and candy to tourists that have ruined Pattaya's reputation !

It's FAR more likely that a couple of the girls were giving him some "intimate" attention and asking for drinks and he was agreeing. Like 99.99% of the guys who go to go-go bars do. (The other 00.01% being the jaded "repeat" tourists and expats who know the game.)
Then when he saw the bill and realized he was expected to pay for all those drinks, he balked.

Or he rang the bell, not knowing what it meant. And you know what a lot of people are like when they start drinking. After 3-4 beers their eyes start to glaze over and their self-control (and attitude) go right out the window.

And most of them hardly ever check their bills when they get another drink. Sheesh, I've seen guys hand their ATM card and PIN number to a waitress to get her to go get money from a nearby ATM because they were too lazy to go themselves (or were worried that the girl they were schmoozing would be on someone else's lap by the time they got back).

I've been going to go-go bars in Thailand since 1993 and I've spent a sh*tload of money in them over the years and only once did I ever have an issue with a drink or bill.
But then again, I kept track of my bills, was friendly with the staff and never got so drunk that I could barely stand or was puking in the streets. 
When I was making "war zone money", a 4,500 baht bar bill in a go-go was a "quiet" night.

And I drank Jack Daniels pretty much exclusively. Mostly so I could smell it when they brought me a fresh drink. Once, in the New Living Dolls go-go, my second or third drink arrived, I sniffed it, gave it a tiny sip, sniffed again. One of the dancers asked what was wrong and I told her I didn't think that was Jack Daniels.

She sniffed it, took the "bin" out of the cup, saw that it said "Jack coke" and went straight to the bar and had them make me a new one. Sure enough, she comes back, I take a sniff and there was that JD smell.

And in the last 30 years, that was the only time it ever happened.

I've gone to go-gos where the drinks were way above average price. Had a drink, looked at the bill, paid it and left. 

But a lot of people don't do that.

Remember the news article about the Thai woman bar "owner" (or manager) who got into an altercation with a customer who refused to pay for his beer because "it was more expensive than 7-11" ?

That is, seriously, what a lot of foreigners seem to think. That if they go into a go-go and buy a beer (or whatever) that it should be the same price as if they'd bought it from 7-11 or maybe at worst, from a beer bar.

And then they go off the handle because they think they are being ripped off. Especially if they are those kind who have control issues after a couple beers.

And you know more than a few of them can get quite belligerent. And more than a few of them are outright racists and the more they drink the more that shows.

I'd say that 99% of the problems that happen in the bars in Pattaya (and elsewhere) are because of something the "customer" has done, not something the bar or it's staff have done.

Think about it. If they were all padding bills and ripping off customers every single night in every single bar - like a lot of people here seem to think happens - they wouldn't be in business long and the news feeds would be overflowing with reports of customers being robbed and beaten.

But around here, someone propping up a bar stool hears a story that someone else is telling someone about how someone said that someone knew a guy that had a friend who said that he worked with a guy who claimed he'd been ripped off on a bar bill.

And then stool propper decides that ALL bars do that to ALL foreigners and he passes the story on to someone else (and so on and so on).

Next time you hear someone say "a friend of mine said he was ripped off" - ask them their friend's name. Make a bet with yourself that they won't remember his name. Or when it supposedly happened. Or what bar.

Here's an example. When I was working in a camp outside of Kabul (Afghanistan) between '03-'06, I started renting a place in Pattaya as I was tired of living in a hotel for a month at a time.
Someone would ask "where do you live" or whatever and I'd say Pattaya or Thailand.

Suddenly, someone would pipe up with "Oh yeah, I've heard about that place. A friend of mine went there once. Yeah, he said he rented a house right on the beach. Hired one woman to do the cleaning and laundry and another one to do the cooking and both were sleeping with him and he was only paying $75 a month for them and the rent !"

Seriously. I had THREE people tell me the exact same story in the span of maybe 1 1/2 years.

And when they finished their story I'd tell them that the Vietnam War ended like 30 years ago and they'd look at me with a dumb look on their faces. Until I explained that there was NO way anyone was doing all that for that little unless it was back when the war was going on.

Then ask them the name of their friend. Or how old he was. Naturally, they can't remember. Just that they'd "heard" the story somewhere.

Like the stories about how every bank in the country rips off every foreign customer the second they put any money in the bank.

Because there was ONE story about ONE foreigner who had his money ripped off by corrupt teller 20 years ago.

I have a friend who refused to open a Thai bank account because he'd heard stories (in the bars) about how people were always being ripped off and having their money stolen by corrupt bank staff.

And then I told him how much I had in the banks and how long it had been there and how not a satang had gone missing in over 20 years.

But because he'd heard someone in a bar telling a story about someone else (ect ect) he too thought it was a daily occurrence. (He did open an account and in the 4 or 5 years since has never had his money stolen by corrupt bank staff.)
Shocker.

You pay more attention to stories that involve other foreigners, especially if they are the same nationality. Those stories are the ones you are more likely to remember - and pass on to your friends and "bar mates". And they, because it involved a fellow countryman and was told to them by a fellow countryman (who would never lie or exaggerate of course), will pass it on to others (and so on and so on).

And 20 years from now people will hear those stories being told in bars by people who swear it happened to "a friend" of theirs. Whose name they can't recall of course.

RIP.
Ubon Joe always had the best and most accurate information on Visas and Extensions and no doubt helped thousands of people during his time on this forum.

He was always the person I turned to when I had a question and I remember he was always polite and well mannered no matter how many times he was asked the exact same questions over and over again.

A sad loss for his family and for expats everywhere in Thailand.

15 minutes ago, 2baht said:

 

The Chinese tourist lived in a condo building? The plot thickens!

Well, I'm a Canadian "tourist" living in a house - as far as the Thai police are concerned. Unless you are a citizen or have Permanent Residence, you are considered a "tourist". Even if you have a wife, children, house, 2 cars, 2 motorcycles, 3 cats, 2 dogs and 12 cows, you are still classed as a "tourist".

1 hour ago, IamNoone88 said:

Such a small target market .. Brits in TH with expiring passports once every 10 years .. .. why even bother.

It's probably not just Brits being targeted. The scammers are no doubt running the same scam on others, like those who can't get into Thailand (or the UK) normally.
And if they did investigate it, you'd probably find that it's some Nigerians in Bangkok running the scam.

Many years ago I had a scammer try to con me into thinking I'd won a huge Hungarian "cellphone" lottery and, naturally, I need to pay the transfer and "insurance" fees in order to collect.
I strung him along for awhile and figured out he was a Nigerian. We had a Nigerian working in our Admin office, which is how the scammer knew I was in Afghanistan even though I'd been telling him I was in Pattaya. He kept telling me to let him know when I arrived in Thailand and he'd meet me at the airport to "collect the fees". 
Yeah right.
I told him to give me the address of his office in Bangkok and I'd drive up from Pattaya - but he knew I wasn't in country.

He then tried to get me to send the money by Western Express. I was able to find out which W.E. outlet he was planning on using and then I sent him a final email letting him know that I knew he was a scammer and that I'd alerted the Thai Police and forwarded his emails, complete with the headers that they could use to track his IP, as well as notifying the FBI.

I said the FBI because when I was trying to track this guy down, I found he was also running a "Green Card" scam where people were being offered American "green cards" that would allow them to move to the US and bring as many family members as they wanted with them.

I ended the email by telling him to expect the police to be arriving soon and then said "Wait, was that a knock on your door ? Have they arrived already ?"

I had a chuckle as I imagined him diving out the window every time he heard a knock on a door for days afterwards. Needless to say, not only did he not reply but suddenly our Nigerian worker decided he didn't like the large salary he was earning and went home.

I suspect he had been feeding the names of other employees (we had Indians, Nepalese, Filipinos, Canadians, Brits and Americans working in Afghanistan at the time) to the same scammer (or groups of them) and maybe was worried he'd get burned if his friend did get arrested.