KevWaters

That is exactly what they want now all work has been completed. Me to walk so they can keep summer pay for themselves. Schools re-open in May here.

P.S We have never signed in at the school, I don't think we will need to do that. Also, very unlikely that there will be any paperwork to do. The school are FAR too unorganised to orchestrate anything like that.

I believed it because last year they used the agency I used to work for and had been using them for many years. I know that the teachers would finish at the end of February despite the school having a 12 month contract with the agency. That is standard and is how the agencies make megabucks pocketing the two months summer payments without paying anything out to the teachers during that period (plus the one month Half term payment too of course).

I figured that since the school are paying me half of what they were paying the agency they would at least give me not two, but one full months holiday. I don't mind sitting around playing online Poker or watching Lord of the Rings (still haven't seen them) for 4 weeks as I will probably do this month but it would be weird pulling it off for longer than that. The new teachers will arrive late April and I will probably still be sat there watching videos of my family holidaying in Phuket whilst I earn my wage.

If I they give me a letter to say that I can take holiday after summer camp ends on 4th April then I will just tell them I will miss it but forfeit my wage 27th March until 4th April (or set it off against the wage for 31st April til 5th May, which they don't want to pay. It's odd that they sign a letter from a teacher who was complaining about my lesson but are desperately trying to bribe me into teaching at the 4 day gifted student Summer Camp to earn them some more bucks. Which is it? Shit or not?

If you decide to go to court, please make sure your complaint is very, very brief and to the point. I get to handle all the complaints from several schools and here's what I have learned.

Complain about things which actually violate the contract and/or Thai labor laws. Make sure you know what laws apply to schools.

Second, make sure your complaint is about you and your situation. Complaining about things which do not affect you will not gain much traction.

Do you have witnesses about the defamatory things that they have said about you? If so, that may be helpful. Stay away from anything related to 'looking down on Thais'. Any cultural issue might be a losing battle on your part.

When the school gives you a warning, it needs to be in writing and you need to sign it. If you didn't sign it then there is no way for them to prove it was given to you. Some employees refuse to sign the letter, in that case, I have 3 witnesses, one of which is usually another Foreign Teacher. The letter is read to them and it is witnessed by the 3 people. It is clearly written on the letter that in signing, the person is acknowledging receipt of the letter -- it does not mean they agree with what is written.

If the school decides to terminate you, I believe that they have to give you one pay cycle before they can let you go. This would generally be about 1 month. If you do something which breaks a law, then the dismissal can be immediate. I am not 100% sure on how the law is written, because we almost always give them either a month's notice or give them a month's pay and ask them to leave.

Be aware that you are being set up. I have seen this happen on numerous occasions. You cannot win this battle (but you might be able to win some money in court). They have decided they don't like you and Guy Fawkes has nothing to do with it. I have seen them interview every student and get a barrage of complaints about teachers. This includes things like "I don't understand him". There is almost always a few students who do not understand English. They will watch you and find fault with your board work, you speak too loud/not loud enough. You write too big/too small, not neat enough. You are too strict/you are not strict enough.

Best of luck.

Thanks for the sound advice.

It is a hussle for sure. The school are trying to save as much money as possible at the expensive of me and my small family. That is even clearer today after them bribing me with an English Camp they know I can't attend in order to further reduce my salary amount.

If my contract is to end in May, do they need to give me a written letter to tell me that they are not renewing it? If so, how much notice is required for this letter? In the absence of it, what are the remedies available (i.e. severance pay etc)?

It seems my 30 minute post has been deleted so I wont go into details again.

Yeah, the warning letter was signed by the Director and HoD yet they now say that it was not an official document. I have just sent an email to the HoD asking her to reassure me that it will not be sent to immigration in an attempt to get me barred from the Country. She wont reply, but it is something recorded to use as evidence.

I was told I would be given a copy if I went to the meeting with them, but now they are refusing to give it to me, hoping I will make do with the Letter of Recommendation perhaps. I was told in the office that the HoD agreed that all other teachers at the school were fond of me and would write me a good recommendation about me effectively managing the classroom etc. I have just received this letter of recommendation and it is three sentences long and says to direct all inquires to the teacher who has been causing problems at the school. Of course I can't use this recommendation.

There was a further problem today.

I have now finished all grading and there is nothing left for me to do at the school but to browse the internet. All students will be on summer leave once exams finish this Friday.

Previously, I was told that I will be free no later than 15th March. Taking this into consideration I booked a flight to see my family at the end of March when it was being offered for an affordable amount (10k baht / £200 less than it would be to book now). There was no problem with this previously. Now they are saying that they want me to do an English Camp for a week late March going into early April and say that unless I attend they will dock my wage for all the period that I am not at the school. My contract states that I must do one English Camp per Academic Year and I have already done it so it is not mandatory that I do this one but they are using my wage as bribery none the less.

I have asked for an invitation in writing with more information on also including the date at which I am available to take annual leave. I have asked for the latter because I am thinking that I will forfeit the cash at the point of which they agree that I can commence annual leave. I can't see that it will be more than a weeks worth of wages.

The Head of Department is starting to get frustrated with me saying "we only found out today about it", "it's only 4 days" and I am "contracted until 31st April" (it's actually 5th May on the contract but they are trying to dodge a weeks pay). I know I am contracted until then, but surely we can expect a minimum of a months holiday as a teacher (especially when I am not returning the following semester). The Thai teachers here get a months holiday and they have lots more administrative work to prepare for the next year, and they want to give me less than them with absolutely NOTHING to do during that time but to watch You Tube Videos and chat with the fine folk on this forum.

Let's see how it develops.

Old Git, did you pay a fee for the Shenzhen Visa? I am thinking about going to the UK for 6 months on the Family Visitor Visa with my Son (has an English Passport) and his mum (unmarried). I would also like to take them to Santorini or Spain if possible. A similar situation to you.

SImple solution.

Start charging a deposit for people to use the toilets. The toilet-goer is then given a receipt to hand to a man waiting at the toilet door. Once the toilet-goer has dropped his contents the person waiting at the door checks the condition of the toilet before signing off part or all of the deposit amount back to them. They hand the ticket to the receipt giver at the entrance and get their deposit percentage back. There can be a scoring system such as

Lose 15% if you piss on the floor

Lose 25% if you block the toilet

Lose 50% if your poo lands outside of the toilet

Lose 75% if you not only miss the toilet but write your name on the walls with poo too

Just an idea.

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Will Cantonese and Tibetans be classed as Chinese. That could cause real political tensions for sure!

Cantonese yes , Tibet is not really part of PRC so they can use the Thai Khazi

Tibet is very much part of the PRC, what planet are you from? Whether you like it or not, the international community recognizes Tibet as being an integral part of China and so do I. Taiwan may be a different story, but Tibet is most definitely part of the People's Republic of China, even if they administer it slightly outside of the conventions that the rest of the country is administered under.

Fair enough they can all use the Chinese Kharzi then.

We are having a bit of a laugh about Toilets mate , that doesn't mean you have to be Anal

Oh dear, look what I started. It's toilet humour!

I do think it's cruel to lump others in with the Chinese though. The Hong Kong people are a very civilised bunch and would be not be seen dead taking a number 2 on the floor in public. Mainland only please!

Will Cantonese and Tibetans be classed as Chinese. That could cause real political tensions for sure!

Will that mean us farang will have to use the Chinese toilets as well, or are we ok to use the Thai toilets

The article reads like they are going to use the existing toilets for the Chinese and build two more sets of toilets for Thai's and Non-Chinese. I don't believe that they will go to that trouble. I think they will build one more and use that for all tourists, using the existing beautifully built golden building for the Thai people.

Just have a poo before you arrive. Problem solved.

Wouldn't it be easier to just build new toilets for Chinese rather than for those who are not? A hole in the ground would do fine.

To add, all her critique of my lesson material was made after the lessons were taught so it was not a matter of me refusing to change like I read somewhere above.

She was just a pain the backside, we have a farang teacher coming into school stoned with no lesson plans after regular heavy weekends in Chiang Mai. He would arrive in town at 3am on the bus and in his lessons he would play hangman or ping pong. We also have teachers walk in 20 minutes late without any hassle whatsoever. This teacher would also take the other farang at the school to weddings during school hours. She had absolutely no issues with any of that, but they were on 6 month contracts.

How can people put up with that rubbish…just leave and find a new job.

Money, sadly.

I was given a 12 month contract with holiday pay. Also, the salary was pretty decent. I did consider leaving almost every day but hung in there. Now I have 5 days left of finishing my grades and then I should get two months holiday pay, which will really help as I have a son and wife to help take care of with little savings. If I was with an agency (like I was in my first year) I would have transferred to another school on day 1. No job is worth your mental health, unless your broke and can really fight through a short spell for the good of your family.

Someone here stated that they are surprised I was not dismissed earlier for refusing to change lesson plans. I don't know where you got that information from. I never refused to changed lesson plans and would nod and agree to the comments made by her to keep peace (despite wanting to tell her exactly what I thought).

I am raising all of the issues with the school now because I feel in a much better position to do so. There is only two months left on the contract and they would need to give me one months severance pay to dismiss me. They would not get a great benefit in doing this like they may have received before now. In addition, I can now better tolerate any potential awkwardness with only a week left of office time. Also the Adminstrative Court would not look favourably at all on dismissing an employee a week before holiday leave and the end of the contract.

I have taught a lesson, or at least part of one, on Guy Fawkes for years. There have been no complaints. I am sure it is understood that England is not Thailand, and things are different- Thais aren't actually all a bunch of backwards bumpkins with no ability to see other perspectives, you know. I don't think it should ever be considered bad form to impart knowledge that deviates from a status quo (within reason, of course, for safety's sake), especially global knowledge, or showing how cultures differ / have differed.

I also agree that any subject is ripe for use for teaching English, as long as it is interesting, and the medium of instruction is English and is appropriately graded . Students get enough grammar from their usual or extra classes; as a foreigner, the key thing you can bring to the class is the placing of this grammar in context. Certainly, you can get them to do something more interesting than the usual dry and repetitive drivel that they have been subjected to.

If you want, during the lesson on Fawkes, you can always describe how he eventually ended up, which a.) prevents dangerous speculation about the teacher's leanings and b.) very much engages the boys in the class (in my experience anyway).

That's exactly right.

I did consider the context and decided to go ahead. I don't want to be that guy who is afraid to do many things out of self-created fears like this.

If England was called Thailand, the Thai King was called King James, and the King would have fallen in the end I would have definitely passed on doing it for sure.

The King wins in the end and all the people celebrate their love for the Monarchy every year with fireworks because of it. Lovely!

The level of insight shown by the OP into the system and culture here, plus his lack of sensitivity with regards to the topics he chooses suggest he would do far better seeking employment as a crash test dummy.

So yeah, best to get out of dodge... entirely.

7000 words of complaint... in English... in Thailand... to an employer.

Classic.

It was never intended that the Head of Department read the entirety of the letter, that was her prerogative. The intention was to record a summary of the meeting together with all my grievances and attach them by email so I had recorded proof that I had taken issue with the teachers behaviour. Also, her lack of response (which I had anticipated) could indicate agreement of my version of events and help to show the truth in my claim to third parties should something arise (such as dismissal) where I need something to rely on in the future.

The tactic did help in yesterdays interview. The teacher tried to deny what she had said and encourage the Head of Department to agree with her. The Head of Department just stayed silent on the matter, which caused the teacher to storm out.

The summary of the meeting was that she would give me a copy of the warning letter but only if she could send it Immigration and every school in the area too. I accepted. After she left the office, the Director and Head of Department said that she is blunt and says crazy things sometimes. They will now write me a good recommendation letter and urged me to let it all go. I have no problem with that now.

Op. Are you working on teaching waivers?

If so that's two used up.. And you only get two. Good luck

I've read reports on other forums of teachers recently getting a 3rd waiver.

And I bet each time they were studying for an education degree, which is accepted.

You can get a 3rd year waiver if you teach at the same school for two years too. It was never my intention to teach for 2 years here, but decided to stay after enjoying my first year. I wouldn't be doing a 3rd year even if I could as it is time to try somewhere new now.

Sure, they should have just asked if I intended to stay for more than 1 year. Would have saved them so much effort

I received just one warning letter that stated they will dismiss me next time. This was sent the day after our first and only formal meeting on Christmas Eve, during which nothing worthy of a warning letter was said. It was basically a meeting with the teacher saying I was evil inside, money obsessed, had a sham marriage and looked down on Thai people as if I am some kind of superhero. She is a 58 year old Thai woman who lived in the USA for a spell before teaching here for 30 years now. She has never been married. God knows what happened to her in USA to make her resent farang so much. She will make exceptions for some who brown nose and there is one here who will admittedly do that to "keep in with the queen bee". You wouldn't think that she was just a teacher with no other job title other than to supposedly take care of the school farangs, yet she is writing warning letters and threatening to cancel permits etc.

I know that what they did was completely not in line with the law, partly the reason why I wanted to pursue it. but there would be little to claim for in this scenario. I could have put in a claim for constructive dismissal should I have stopped working mid-contract due to "harassment" but I have a baby to support so am in no position to gamble, excellent odds or not. Also, I did care about the grades of the students and they would cheer me up. The funny thing is they knew about what was going on (it become obvious as the teacher would quiz them) and would call to me "su su teacher!" when they saw me

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Is this your first or second gig ?

I just want to say as someone who has been through it before, successful teachers aren't necessarily good teachers, teachers who smile and can play the system are usually successful.

I think you need to find a balance that suits you.

Under English Law she would have had a claim for constructive dismissal since her length of service would have transferred under TUPE regulations (presuming she had been there for more than 2 years). Sucks when people get treated like "doo doo" at work. That said, good satisfying jobs are hard to come by.

There is no protection here, if it was down, as you say to this problem caused by another member of staff, then it could easily be changed. If you were to get a lawyer and take it to a labour court the school would just say, they thought you were too "friendly" with the students, and to remedy the situation it was best to let you go at the end of contract.

If you signed a 12 month contract, and the school payed you for the full 12 months, and agreed to write you a nice reference, just go with it and smile.

Good luck for the future.

I've heard such stories before, usually from agencies who want to have a quick clean and rid themselves of the more expensive older workers and often less desired older workers. I have also heard stories about teachers apparently hitting students and MD's shouting at the teachers to try get a reaction so that they can cancel the contract without severance pay.

Thanks for the good wishes. Will move on with my reference letter, holiday pay, and sweep this under the carpet.

Don't know what kind of legal protection you guys have in the states though.

Under English Law she would have had a claim for constructive dismissal since her length of service would have transferred under TUPE regulations (presuming she had been there for more than 2 years). Sucks when people get treated like "doo doo" at work. That said, good satisfying jobs are hard to come by.

Firstly, I should say I am not trying to continue for another year at the school, that would be hell. Anyhow, it was always my intention to stay for one.

Regarding my grammar, I don't claim to be fantastic, but it is good enough to be a conversational English Teacher for sure. So don't feel concerned as you say.

Now we only have 6 days left at the school, and it was never my intention to stay longer than one year so whether or not they want me for next year is not the issue here. The tip to ignore is a good one, that is exactly what I did. I moved from sitting behind her in an office, to sitting with the Head of Department (a much more pleasant lady). There was no trouble or complaints since I taken that decision on Christmas Day (when I got the warning letter) other than her voiced anger at not having control over me.

Anyhow, about the outcome of the meeting....

RE. The Meeting

I have just come out of the meeting and it went very well. I kept my calm as I always do.

The teacher said that I could not have a copy of the warning letter because I did not need it. We argued a little about her calling my evil inside, insulting my marriage and the other personal attacks etc and she denied it all even though the Head of Department (HOD) was silently sitting in the room. She stormed out and then things got much better and worked in my favour. The HOD said that she is a blunt speaker and says things even to them like she does not like them and they should do things differently. They told me it was not an official warning letter anyway (even though they signed it), begged me to ignore her and not take the matter further and offered to give me a good recommendation letter for the future.

All in all. Not a bad meeting. I feel like I have got the closure I required.

All those that live in Isaan, you should feel proud that you picked a beautiful place. The people there are gold.

Okay, lunch time...and then the meeting thanks all for your contributions. I do feel much calmer now.

(Sorry to shoot you down Samsensam - no hard feelings )

Thanks all, I will just ask for a copy of the letter and will not make any further comment with them.

I will send it to the Labour Board etc (will research that next week when I have more time) with my complaint. If anything, just for my own closure of this horrible 12 months.

The lesson on Guy Fawkes taken the form of a CSI and the would form opinions on whether he was guilty of the crime of High Treason. They were given evidence sheets and would work in groups to look for reasons for and against his charge. They would then present their findings. The second part was to write a short script and act out a scene from his story. They loved it, they even made and brought their own props. Give Thai students a chance to be creative or act and they will jump at it.

It did take it's toll on my family life too. Bringing up a newborn (now 6 months old) and having to go to work to this everyday was a nightmare. My mind just wasn't there at home a lot of the time. The most distracting issues were those such as the teacher saying she would get my visa cancelled so I could never work again, because I wouldn't sign a warning letter that made no sense and the class it refers to agree is not true. She would also spread gossip around the staff room saying I did not want to join social events because I would rather "fly to singapore than spend money with them". None of it was true. To start this she would tell me the price was ten times higher than it was when inviting me so I would say no.

There are so many issues, you can easily see how I reached 7,000 words. I wont bore you with them, don't worry.