Tapster

Hi,

We're coming to Phuket for seven months in February 2014 and need a car.

Please can anyone suggest cheap car hire companies or other contacts.

Many thanks, and Happy New Year to all !!

@ubonjoe

Thanks very much for this. I'm a bit busy right now so I'll digest it all later.

I'll post again if there's a problem but I'm sure this will sort me out!

Great!

mmm............excellent, Mr Bond!

Mwah...haa...haa!

This all sounds very possible, and can you, please, give me any corroboration with links from the M.o.F. Affairs, because I haven't seen anything about this.

Cheers

@Mario2008

Thanks, that's very helpful. And it's what I'll do if I can't go for.............option two!

If I could avoid going for the O-A visa at all, that would be first prize!

@ubonjoe

Are you saying that my wife and I could waltz into Thailand with 30-day tourist visas (no application, just turn up in Thailand with my UK and her SA passports)...

and then go to immigration in Thailand (within the 30 days, obviously) and convert these into some sort of non-immigrant visas (presumably retirement for me and dependent for her) ??

I opened a K-Bank account on a tourist visa when we visited Phuket in November this year and I have the 800k THB ready, so with that in the Thai account for two months before changing to non-immigrant visas, I'm good to go?

Please don't be offended..........but given my 49% risk-averse nature, is there anywhere in the Thai Ministry of Immigration Mystery that I can verify this? I haven't seen this option in my trawlings through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs website but it would be so much easier to do what you suggest, rather than police clearance, etc, etc.

Cool, man! Thanks!

Hi guys,

I'm in South Africa.

My local embassy in Pretoria will only offer me the O-A visa which is a pain as I'll need police clearance, medical examinations, etc.

Anyway, my query is:

My understanding is that I get an O-A visa as I'm over 50 and my 38-year-old farang wife will get a dependent non-O visa for 90 days and that within those 90 days she can get it extended to be a one-year visa, like mine.

Have I got it wrong?

I'm with Artist: despite 24 years as a medical professional I find the Thailand visa system a little arcane!

Cheers

Cheers, Beechbum!!

I'll get myself down there when we move!!

OK........... prepare for possibly annoying G&T-infused post, but....

...surely there can't be a problem with a 20-inch container?.................20"

I'm planning to bring a 40' one and expect to pay no tax, according to Thai import regs for household effects

and

I'm planning to bring my Les Paul, Strat, two acoustic guitars and associated amps, etc. to Phuket.... as I did to South Africa seven years ago.

There should be no problem.

Look here: http://webportal.atlasintl.com/Customs%20Docs/thailand.pdf

and here: http://www.customs.go.th/wps/wcm/connect/custen/individuals/importing+used+or+secondhand+household+effects/

No worries, dude, if I'm correct!

You might get in in easy, but getting out might be a whole different story- especially any kind of antiques, heirloom or valuable items like Persian rugs.

Hi,

Good point!

I had read that export of such items might create problems. I'm thinking that the best thing would be to keep copies of the import documents which would obviously prove that the items were not sourced in Thailand.

Do you have any personal experience of this issue?

Cheers

Cool, customs link opened successfully. Thanks.

It seems that I will satisfy the tax-free conditions/regulations. That's one big problem out of the way.

We're going to do a lot of driving around when we arrive in Phuket. We plan a 3-month furnished rental while finding the perfect long-term home for rent.

We'll pay only six weeks' storage for the container as it takes six weeks to ship the stuff anyway.

Bring cats over.

Home in Thailand sorted for now!

Yay!

I'm looking forward to reading Ping's link but http://www.customs.go.th won't open in Chrome or Firefox. Maybe Saturday's a holiday!!

But, @Stevenl.......... any thoughts on these 'local' rentals and how I might find out about them. Many thanks!!

......and regarding the 'locally' advertised rentals, many of which may be unfurnished, how might I best find out about these, please.........given that I speak no Thai yet?

Thank you, guys. Good points all!!

I left the UK with all my stuff. We're leaving South Africa and selling up completely - it looks likely that the Rand is taking a dive and so are the fortunes (financial and otherwise) of white people in SA.

In short, I have nowhere to leave anything, except in storage which means that I can't have the use of it. I realise that there are possible import duty implications but I hope to minimise these if at all possible -- much research to follow - many thanks for the link, Ping.

@Stevenl Were you just lucky that you weren't charged import tax? If you'd explain in more detail I'd be very grateful. Please pm me if it's not something you want to post on the forum.

@Livingin Kata I've been coming to Thailand since 1987 and I'm sure we'll like living here for long enough to justify the cost of bringing our stuff. If or when we move on I'm sure it will serve me equally well in a cottage in the UK as in Phuket. I can live very well out of a rucksack when on the move but if I set down roots it really helps me to have my stuff around me. As is often said, we are guests in Thailand and not integrated in the way we are back home. At least our home can be a place of familiar comforts and emotional security.

Hi,

My wife and I are moving to Phuket in 2014, from Johannesburg in South Africa.

I have encountered an unexpected problem......we haven't seen a suitable rental property which comes unfurnished. Everywhere seems to come filled with somebody else's stuff!

Is it unusual for people to move to Phuket with all their household contents?

When I moved from the UK to South Africa I took everything with me and moved it into my rented house. No problem: instant home set up!

I'm not looking for advice on property as such; I'm interested in the experiences of other expats.

Should I be adjusting my expectations or can I expect to find somewhere that will fit the bill?

I need a workshop as I'm always tinkering with some project or other. I have a garage-full of tools and 'stuff' (there was never room for a car!).

To give that up and live in some condo from the pages of Homes and Gardens would not suit me at all.

Comments, please!

@Beechbum

Hi,

I'm going to need some of those racks exactly as you describe as I'm bringing two surfboards with me when I move to Phuket next year.

Are Chai Auto Sound still there? and what is the 'bypass road'? My knowledge of Phuket isn't great yet.

Cheers

@ Archie.....

So, we had our fact-finding week in Phuket (arrived back in Joburg 7am this morning) and made our decision. We're moving to Phuket in 2014. Yay!

Thanks very much for the advice on Kasikorn bank in the Tilok centre.

Success!

I walked in there in long trousers and my least bright Hawaiian shirt, armed only with my passport, stamped with a tourist visa.

I opened a savings account which cost nothing and I paid 800 Baht for a Visa debit card to go with the account.

I used the address of our rented villa as my address in Thailand and I specified that I wanted all communications in email, so I don't think any post will be sent there. I was not asked for a yellow book or blue book or any other paperwork to show proof of residence.

The bank lady took me to the ATM where I chose a PIN for the card and the day after, I received a password by email to register for internet banking. I logged into the system with my account number as username and with their password and was then asked to create my own username and password for future access to the site.

In short: there was no problem opening a savings account on a tourist visa.

I now have somewhere in Thailand where I can put money before I move there.

Many thanks!!

I was happy to see that Phang Nga Bay had done so well in Trip Advisor and was looking forward to reading some expat posts, proud of the natural wonders on their doorstep.

But no!

What did my Mum say.......if you can't say anything positive, don't say anything.

You guys would take the pleasure out of winning the lottery!

Why run down your adopted country? Rather, go home if you have nothing positive to say.

@

thailiketoo

I'm sorry you interpreted my post as in any way anti-Thai........it wasn't.

The OP was looking for experiences and maybe a reason for the crystal meth problem in Thailand and I ventured a hypothesis based on my experience of crystal meth.

It's a particularly big problem in the Pacific North West of the USA - Washington State especially. I have been there several times and the nearly 400 inches of rain per year would drive me to some sort of drug, I'm sure!

In Mexico (been there too) and many other hot places (been to many as well) there is a culture of 'mañana' but it doesn't drive them to drugs all the time.

In Thailand the weather is too benevolent to drive me to drug dependence so I'm simply suggesting that there may be a social or cultural issue.

I don't think many Westerners in Thailand are addicted to crystal meth, so why are so many Thais?

Raising this question isn't Thai-bashing any more than asking why farms in Zimbabwe which were taken over by black Zimbabweans have largely been run poorly, is black-Zimbabwean-bashing.

There are many meth heads in Washington State. Most of those addicted are American. I wonder why there are not too many Thais Washington State that are addicted?

You wrote, "I don't think many Westerners in Thailand are addicted to crystal meth, so why are so many Thais?" Because not many Westerners live in Thailand mostly Thai people live in Thailand.

Ps. If you want to respond to a post please quote the post. In this case your first post where you wrote, "I do wonder, however, if there is something missing in what Thai culture instils into it's young people right now that makes ya ba fill a need that they have???" was clearly anti Thai as the meth problem is a world wide problem no more common in Thailand than CA or WA.

Sorry, man.

I'm quite new to forums and I thought that '@Thailiketoo' was the way to address you, specifically.

No worries, I'll quote in future.

All I want to do in this post is show you that I am very much not anti-Thai. My experience since 1987 has led me to quite the opposite position.

You said:

There are many meth heads in Washington State. Most of those addicted are American. I wonder why there are not too many Thais Washington State that are addicted?

As a 'hard scientist' (as they say these days), I have to say that your statement doesn't make any point at all, really.

Sorry, but you might as well say, 'why are there fewer North Americans addicted to crystal meth in Thailand, than Thais?'. The demographics speak for themselves.

My point in that quoted post was only that there are regional factors which might predispose someone to drug addiction, if they were already psychologically susceptible to addiction.

​You also said that my suggestion:

"I do wonder, however, if there is something missing in what Thai culture instils into it's young people right now that makes ya ba fill a need that they have???"

@

I'm sorry you interpreted my post as in any way anti-Thai........it wasn't.

The OP was looking for experiences and maybe a reason for the crystal meth problem in Thailand and I ventured a hypothesis based on my experience of crystal meth.

It's a particularly big problem in the Pacific North West of the USA - Washington State especially. I have been there several times and the nearly 400 inches of rain per year would drive me to some sort of drug, I'm sure!

In Mexico (been there too) and many other hot places (been to many as well) there is a culture of 'mañana' but it doesn't drive them to drugs all the time.

In Thailand the weather is too benevolent to drive me to drug dependence so I'm simply suggesting that there may be a social or cultural issue.

I don't think many Westerners in Thailand are addicted to crystal meth, so why are so many Thais?

Raising this question isn't Thai-bashing any more than asking why farms in Zimbabwe which were taken over by black Zimbabweans have largely been run poorly, is black-Zimbabwean-bashing.

Like Neeranam and HardenedSoul, I have to agree that alcohol is the worst drug in the world, defined by number of users and total damage done, both physically and mentally.

I the 80s my best friend became a heroin addict and that was very sad. He later became an alcoholic and once (that I know of) drank his own vomit to get back all the alcohol that he'd 'wasted'!

Would any of you do that?

This is an argument that can go on and on BUT those who have been close to drug addiction and to drug taking in general do know that it's the psyche of the user that it the biggest factor in addiction.

There is no drug in the world to which you will become addicted on the first try if you're not the right type of person. The problem is that some people try heroin/crystal meth/cocaine etc. and find that it is what they have always been looking for. It fills a hole (maybe) and makes them feel like the person they've always dreamt themselves to be. That's very sad but it's less due to the drug than the person.

I don't think all drugs should be legalised.

I do wonder, however, if there is something missing in what Thai culture instils into it's young people right now that makes ya ba fill a need that they have???

Excellent KJ !

Message received and understood!

...........and very many thanks to all who posted.

I think I know as much about Thai property as any honest and well informed lawyer! ....and I will set up shop immediately!

But don't worry, I won't be giving advice, simply I'll point anyone to this thread!

If there's anything more said here, I'll happily read it, but now I'm going to give up the idea of 'buying' a house any time soon and investigate a long-term rental on a slightly 'westernised' Thai wooden house in Phuket - if I can find one.

I'm hoping for cheaper rent than a villa or house. I'll check out the situation while living in Thailand instead of gazing from Johannesburg.

BUT that subject is for another thread!!

@ KJ

I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts/opinions on the points in my post above..........

Do you know when the 30-year lease idea was first enacted?

Are the first leases coming to the end of their 30 years?

If so, have the 30-30-30 lease terms been tested yet?

I think this issue is very important and I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere in this thread.

If the land-registering authorities have started to deal with the second 30-year leases then is a consensus being reached?

Cheers,

Tapster

@ KJ and SDM0712

Hi guys,

I have been reading your posts with great interest.

If one wants to know how property laws work in most First World countries, unless it's something obscure, it's not usually necessary to consult a lawyer.

HOWEVER, before committing funds one would be mad not to have the best legal advice available.

The fact that Thai property law is so unclear and apparently dependent upon how it is interpreted by individual government officials until a consensus is formed, is not reassuring and the lack of such a consensus in the case of the 30-30-30 lease issue is a major stumbling block (for me, anyway) in the path of 'owning' property in Thailand.

SDM, you said:

"What you are failing to appreciate, and perhaps I am not being clear, is that in any legal document, in any country, the language is open to interpretation and the words chosen have in all probability been chosen for that purpose. In the UK we use the term “legalese”, and it’s not viewed as a positive thing. Until a case hits the Courts no body knows for sure what the outcome would be. All I would say is that this is Thailand and some say that nothing is exactly as it seems. If such a case ever did come to court and the multiple lease principle were ruled against, it would cost this country billions of baht."

Do you know when the 30-year lease idea was first enacted?

Are the first leases coming to the end of their 30 years?

If so, have the 30-30-30 lease terms been tested yet?

I think this issue is very important and I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere in this thread.

If the land-registering authorities have started to deal with the second 30-year leases then is a consensus being reached?

I read what you're both saying and KJ's points about usufruct and the 30-year lease being the only things you can currently rely on, certainly seem to agree with everything I've read and with the consensus on this thread.

SDM, I get what you're saying as well. I agree that good, honest legal advice is essential. However, without precedent and consensus regarding the second 30-year lease it does seem foolhardy to rely on any lawyer's advice concerning matters that are 30 years down the line when the lawyer has probably retired and if he was wrong, it's just too late!

Gentlemen, please tell me the the situation as you understand it regarding testing of the renewal of the second 30-year lease.

Cheers,

Tapster

"Why does any foreigner buy property in Thailand?? It seems to make to sense, but obviously people do it!"

Sorry, that should read.......... Why does any foreigner buy property in Thailand?? It seems to make NO sense, but obviously people do it!

Good morning from Johannesburg where the sun is shining out of clear skies and which would be almost the perfect place to live (for me) if it weren't for the crime and the ANC's inexorable squeezing of the the white man!

Sure, there is much talk about the Thai property situation but it hasn't been useless at all. As OP I'm getting just what I wanted and am very grateful to all contributors!

If we were talking about UK property this could have been a short thread where hard facts were stated and the subject closed.......mmmm,but this is a forum, so maybe not!

A few things have become clear which anyone thinking of buying property in Thailand now, should think about carefully. For sure, some of these things may not come to pass but they are well worth bearing in mind....'Eyes wide open' and all that!

1. As a long-term investment, house purchase in Thailand is at best a very uncertain prospect.
   
2. If you can put that aside and still want to buy, there is no guarantee that you will secure more than a 30-year stay in that house.
   
   (With a usufruct agreement you may be able to stretch that security to your lifetime but if land leases are only 30 years max., we still return to the uncertain issue of securing the second 30-year lease.)
   
3. Contracts drawn up at the time of purchase cannot be relied upon to determine future outcomes. Loopholes and clever clauses may mean nothing when the shit hits the fan.
   
4. Your house may be worth nothing at the end of 30 years as the cost of negotiating another 30-year lease may be prohibitive.
   
5. Inheritance of the house or the lease may not be possible for foreign house-owners with foreign spouses/families.
   
6. Some real estate firms are definitely giving the impression that house purchase is much more secure than it actually is.

Jeez!

All this is very disappointing for me.

I don't want to live in a small freehold condo. I have a lifetime's-worth of 'stuff' that I'd like to bring to Thailand and put in a decent-sized house. I'd like a garden for our cats and a feeling of not being hemmed in (after some years in a secure estate in Joburg with electric fences, barbed wire and security men with guns!)

Why does any foreigner buy property in Thailand?? It seems to make to sense, but obviously people do it!

I'm just throwing my thoughts on paper, not looking for any real solutions as there don't seem to be any that will fit my circumstances and give me the security I'd like.

The best scenario I can see is the one I started with at the beginning of this thread: that buying a house gives you a 30-year, long-term rental which works out significantly cheaper per month than current rents for a similar-sized property and is fixed (inflation-proofed) for the full term.

It's not ideal but I can't see a better way of owning a decent-sized property in Thailand.

Thanks for all the thoughts so far and if there are any further comments, I'm looking forward to reading them.

All the best,

"Depressed" of Johannesburg!!

Hi Stephen,

A package deal?

Ah, so is that why posters are talking about a legal loophole?

Is it against Thai law to have a lease longer than 30 years?

So, when you buy a house you are buying three 30-year leases with no further negotiation needed?

I didn't understand that.

I suspect I may not be alone in having thought that the second and third leases had to be re-negotiated.

Suddenly, buying Thai property seems a bit more secure a purchase than I thought.

If one has a clause as you described earlier, requiring the landowner to seek the lessee's agreement to sell the land, then you've pretty much got yourself a way of ensuring that the three leases follow on smoothly. Then all we need to do is sort out inheritance and it's looking like a much better deal!

Thank you very much for that!