Nigeone

Just from reading the headline, I can tell where the two sides are 'split.'

One group is sensible and realistic and perhaps also thrifty, and they argue against the sub purchases.

the other group is military brass - who are jealous when seeing neighboring countries amassing subs. and some of those Thai top brass sub boosters may also be positioned in the pipeline to get kick-backs. ....and they're all China lovers. Either that, or easily dazzled by Chinese sales pitches.

I just heard an interview by a farang who went to buy a car in Shanghai. The Chinese car salesman was a nut. He would touch the buyer on parts of his body, he would beg for contracts to be signed ("buyer loses deposit of $500 if buyer makes no decision to purchase in two days"). The salesman even cried real tears in one part of the negotiation - so eager was he in making a sale.

Are the Thai officials who are testing the viability of the subs - the same officials who approved buying the many $33,000 black plastic boxes which did nothing? Incidentally, Thailand and Mexico are the only two countries which kept buying the useless little boxes - months/years after all other countries realized they were a scam.

Well defense tools are never needed until it is too late. The best thing that can happen is to buy weapons just to dismantel them 20 years later. With the big coast Thailand needs a strong Navy and maybe Subs. But they don't need the aircraft carrier....

I would actually make more of a case for the aircraft carrier than the subs...they really really are not easy to operate and maintain and for sure not going to be functional because of water depth and the lack of threat to them..the only threat would be from China and there buying from them.I think China has 60 plus subs and know how to use and maintain..there's only going to be one winner in that fight ! And it's not Thailand..mind you the Aircraft carries as it stands is a white elephant isn't it...park them all up with the bomb detectors the air ships the Chinese tanks and leave some room for the Aircraft carrier and non serviceable planes purchased with it and the space for the three subs...a mighty scrap yard !!

I agree..6/8 surface craft which would adaptable and far easier to manage and keep in service against 3 high tech subs...there going to get them though aren't they and yes your right the army will be making there list as we speak and the air force might be looking at some planes when you think of it..it's going to be a mess and in so many ways..A friend made this..do you think I could do a deal with them..only 20 million baht one careful owner and a guarantee of1 month

This is not needed from an objective economic or military viewpoint. One could buy a fleet of fast, modern, cheap and easy to maintain, frigates for what these submarines will cost and frigates will do every job the sub could do and better. The only people who are for this wasteful program are those who have been included in the scam and stand to personally benefit. As for developing job skills, the reasons given for buying submarines get more ludicrous by the day. They are totally grasping at straws.

I can't believe the Army will let the Navy spend that much money without the Army spending ten times as much so, if the submarines are purchased, look for a huge shopping trip by the Army. If this thing is allowed, it will be a(nother) sad day for Thailand.

I agree..6/8 surface craft which would adaptable and far easier to manage and keep in service against 3 high tech subs...there going to get them though aren't they and yes your right the army will be making there list as we speak and the air force might be looking at some planes when you think of it..it's going to be a mess and in so many ways..A friend made this..do you think I could do a deal with them..only 20million baht one careful owner and a guarantee of 1 month.!!

Thailand - The Hub of Greed.

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Having a boat in my own country and getting out to catch 'fresh' fish I'm afraid I wouldn't touch the fish in Thailand..not sure how old where it's come from what it's been fed or added to the water along with the cooking methods leave me unimpressed.

Everyone to there own though but it's not for me and certainly not in the next few months..

Also what's with the disproportionate fine 40,000 baht and 7 years..don't understand that why not make it 200.000 baht these suppliers won't bat a eyelid at 40.000 bht

In my experience of water tables/ground water you mess with them at your peril...future drainage problems contamination and sink holes to name just three..but this is Thailand and everything is about today and not planning for the future.Hence the problem they have now...oh well

Why don't they warn them there going to test...oh wait...

I said in another OP that this is only going to end one way! And it's not a good one..a complicated bit of kit a submarine and I somehow think if they ever manage to work out how they work they sure as hell won't manage to keep them working..no a disaster waiting to happen...and I really hope no lives are lost in the 'experiment'.

If and when they get these submarines just think of all the amusement it will bring to TV...we all know it's not going to end well and I predict a major issue with the subs in the first 9 months...hope it won't involve loss of life but I wouldn't be surprised..Submarines are complicated bits of kit and training and maintenance of said vessels is not easy..a accident waiting to happen..

I'm sure there are many factors that make up the rises in goods and services but I will never understand how you can raise the mininum wage by 100% and not expect prices and services to increase..I used to try and explain to Thai family that if a guy employs people for 200bht and then it goes up to 300bht that money comes from somewhere..he has to charge more for his product or services who then pass that on and so it goes on..it's not rocket science is it..initially of course it doesn't show because it takes a few months or more to filter through but be sure it always will..I would have at a guess that after that settling readjusting period Thai people would be actually no better off and maybe even worse of if you take in all the other factors..Ex pats of course would I would thing be surely worse of for goods and services..

How did they know that the stated items were missing and the value of them..also there was quite a description of the gold.The guy was in the house on his own and the nephew wasn't around when found..all a bit too convenient and hard to believe for me I'm afraid. There's more to this in my opinion.but we probably will never find out. I too wonder was he anything to do with the looming Kao Tao case?

First time I went to Pattaya 2001 the hotel staff warned us when we got there don't go in the sea...if we really needed to go in the sea go to one of the Islands or at the worst Jontiem..they were quite clear about the sewage and other nasties floating there..so we didn't..and haven't been back since.Went to Koh Chang instead

Here you go..buy one get one free...only 10 million baht...brand new..guarantee to submerge ...

Here you go...will save them so much money...and they can as many as they want...one for each of there trained sub Mariners..only 3 million baht each...buy one get one free...no refund and 1 hr guarantee ..brand new

BP says BIB are checking the old hand-written gun registration records(pre 2009) to see if there was a mistake in transferring to the digital database. Finding that the gun was registered but lost in transfer would be miraculous, if not actually a surprise.

If they come to the conclusion that the permit was somehow overlooked when they were transferred to the digital database, they then have to make the argument that someone forgot to engrave or stamp the Thai serial number on the gun. Whereas a Thai prosecutor might have no difficulty in believing this, the Japanese are unlikely to believe that two 1 in 10,000++ errors could have happened with the same gun. The system of Thai serial numbers goes back much further than 2009.

Another problem is going to be that the current model of the NNA .22 magnum Sidewinder only started production in 2012. The previous model was not called a Sidewinder, as the cylinder didn't swing out and had to be removed completely to load it. Therefore it looks quite different. In addition the year of production can be determined from the US serial number.

There also seems to be some suggestion that the Thai authorities might attempt to extradite him to face charges in Thailand in the hope that the Japanese would drop their charges and let the Thais deal with him in their own way for his series of honest mistakes. This also seems futile as the Japanese would surely say they are welcome to extradite him once his has finished his sentence over there for what could be construed as an attempt at air piracy. In fact they would compulsorily deport him back to Thailand. That would assume that he is still alive by then and the Thai statute of limitations has not expired.

So if what your saying is correct and I have no reason whatsoever to doubt you that would put the latest story about the paper records and not being recorded properly as another lie..apparently digital records started from 2009 and you reckon the gun is from 2012 at the earliest so they seem to be going to great lengths to try and get him off the hook...all interesting stuff though.

How much are you guys actually getting in the town for exchange? And GBP ?.

Was in Thailand..both Bangkok and Chiang Mai for two visits for a total of 6 months last year..I accept the drinks etc are not included in my approx figures but the prices you quote are so wrong..maybe they saw you coming..1000 -2000 for bar fine is nonsense...anyway I'll agree to disagree...try Foxy lady in Chiang Mai or any of the ground floor in Nana...nowhere near those prices your mentioning..

Schools out Nana..think that's the name..2400 plus 500 bar fine...Foxy lady Chiang Mai 2000 plus 600 both LT..fact..and both really fit..one stayed with me for 3 days from Nana...sorry mate..haggle a bit more..

Perfect example of clueless.

Last year for a a total of 6 months, so another expert , lol

Once you live full time for at least 15 years, then come back to teach me.

Just realised your the guy who I was answering..well I'm really sorry but he you've lived here for 15 years and are spending 1000-2000 on bar fine and 4000 -6000 on go go girl plus drinks it's not me that's clueless...maybe you should meet up with me when I come over in September and I could save you some money...in fact a lot of money...there's a few people who've also answered your price you've payed with disdain too so obviously it's not just me who thinks you've been had for a sucker!

I still don't see what difference the registration has to do with carrying the gun onboard a plane leaving Japan. Don't get the big issue.

He's a gangster, he has gangstery things. He's a fool. Safest place for us to put him is in jail.

Remember he stated aparently that he held the registration of the gun and the paperwork was on its way with his son...it now turns out it's not registered at all..allegedly .that makes him more in the poo..so that throws into question everything else he's been saying..been not registered means it's not traceable therefore more in the poo...what's he doing with a unregistered gun and where did he get it from...remember Swampy are saying it didn't go through there..in my view it did by the way...so it does have big relevance..but I do agree with you the safest place is in jail and I would imagine there only to decide how long !!

There are many more potential risks to Thai tourism than MERS and the aviation safety crisis that can cause a substantial adverse impact on Thailand. A few come to mind immediately:

- Russian promotion of Crimea for Russian tourism

- Greecian promotion of Greece with crash of Greek drachma

- terrorism in Tunisia vacation areas

- continued economic downturn in China

- increase in Thai household debt, domestic business closures and unemployment

- continued falling global agricultural prices

- continued negative export growth

- loss of seafood sales to EU and USA

- increased competition from ASEAN and partner countries

- abnormal weather

- resurgence of violence in the South

Then there is the "800-pound gorilla" ruling Thailand. The Junta has been increasing its stranglehold on civil liberties and rights in disportionate response to the slightest show of protests OF ANY KIND, whether political or not. It now holds a widely critisized draft 2015 constitution, forthcoming dissolution of the NLA, NRC and CDC, and possible delay to a democratic participatory governance until 2017.

Radicalization of Junta behavior and failing economy may adversely affect foreign tourism more than any other factor.

How will

- increase in Thai household debt, domestic business closures and unemployment

- continued falling global agricultural prices

- continued negative export growth

- loss of seafood sales to EU and USA

affect tourism?

Actually you lost all credibility with "crash of Greek drachma"

Economic issues have the potential to create political conflict which, depending on how the Junta handle it, could have a big impact on tourism.

The other thing missing from the list above is an inevitable event that Thailand will have to face sometime in the future which could have a huge impact on the entertainment industry for a period of time.

Yes I agree and mentioned it earlier..people I don't think realize how massively it could affect tourism..personally I think the country will come to a complete stop and god knows how long for because they will be a power struggle to follow too..not that there isn't anyway mind...it's not going to be healthy for tourism for sure..

Was in Thailand..both Bangkok and Chiang Mai for two visits for a total of 6 months last year..I accept the drinks etc are not included in my approx figures but the prices you quote are so wrong..maybe they saw you coming..1000 -2000 for bar fine is nonsense...anyway I'll agree to disagree...try Foxy lady in Chiang Mai or any of the ground floor in Nana...nowhere near those prices your mentioning..

Schools out Nana..think that's the name..2400 plus 500 bar fine...Foxy lady Chiang Mai 2000 plus 600 both LT..fact..and both really fit..one stayed with me for 3 days from Nana...sorry mate..haggle a bit more..

Perfect example of clueless.

Last year for a a total of 6 months, so another expert , lol

Once you live full time for at least 15 years, then come back to teach me.

That's a little harsh! This guy was writing about his specific experiences, and a six month sample is more than enough to get a sense of what is currently going on - far from "clueless."

I've only lived here nine years, so I'm considered "clueless," too?

Thanks for the backup...have replied ..yes I did wonder about that too...is there kind of a time before you understand Thai life to a degree...he obviously things 15 years is the cut off point! You've had it too mate !

Was in Thailand..both Bangkok and Chiang Mai for two visits for a total of 6 months last year..I accept the drinks etc are not included in my approx figures but the prices you quote are so wrong..maybe they saw you coming..1000 -2000 for bar fine is nonsense...anyway I'll agree to disagree...try Foxy lady in Chiang Mai or any of the ground floor in Nana...nowhere near those prices your mentioning..

Schools out Nana..think that's the name..2400 plus 500 bar fine...Foxy lady Chiang Mai 2000 plus 600 both LT..fact..and both really fit..one stayed with me for 3 days from Nana...sorry mate..haggle a bit more..

Perfect example of clueless.

Last year for a a total of 6 months, so another expert , lol

Once you live full time for at least 15 years, then come back to teach me.

Interesting quote from you..have lived in Thailand since 1998 with months back in my home country during that time...that's 17 years by my reckoning..but I will give you not full time..however does you living there 15 years mean you disagree with my comments on prices...well actually I know you can't because that's what I payed and have pics to prove it..and the girls in question were gorgeous and indeed lovely company too..which as you have lived in Thailand for 15 years will know! They are not always ..anyway I will leave you with your unfounded thoughts...I was incidentally replying to someone you suggested I should visit Thailand...hence the above post regarding last year as it was most relevant..he didn't ask me for my history !!

Yes this all quite interesting...I've just thought too despite swampy saying it didn't go through the airport which nobody believes I'm sure...if they are again!! Looking for the registration in 'old' pre 2009 paperwork before digital recording would that not realistically put to rest the fact that it must have come through swampy...there shooting themselves in the foot by each passing day...he must be really squirming now too...as someone else said the more lies you tell the bigger hole you dig ..

BP says BIB are checking the old hand-written gun registration records(pre 2009) to see if there was a mistake in transferring to the digital database. Finding that the gun was registered but lost in transfer would be miraculous, if not actually a surprise.

Yes that's a good angle though isn't it...Thailand..the hub for excuses...!!

"Camronwit's gun found to be unregistered"

Bye-Bye You. Enjoy some hospitality courtesy of the Japanese prison system.

Care to explain why the weapon being unregistered will make 1 bit of difference to the outcome, the charge I would assume will be endeavouring to smuggle the weapon onto an aircraft. Registered or unregistered, brand, calibre, serial number, receipts, registration etc. has nothing whatsoever to do with the particular crime / charge.

Correct me if I'm wrong but he can be charged with possession of a unregistered firearm, attempting to board a plane with said weapon. In possession of bullets in said gun..attempting to deceive security personal about owner and registers of gun..possibly charged with entering country with said gun..admitted by him..and I'm sure there's more..all,those he can be charged with..multiple charges all against aviation regulations..oh also I guess failing to declare said gun at check in...if its unregistered it's has to be illegal no??

Oh to be so pedantic and thorough, just why would the Japanese care one iota of the weapon's status in Thailand - not their jurisdiction or concern - the point I was making.

The charges laid in Japan have no bearing what so ever with what went before in Thailand.

Okay I understand what your trying to say..but without dwelling on the issue it does make a difference.If the gun has been used for ..say murder elsewhere..if it was anywhere else than Thailand who I wouldn't think for one minute have much forensic evidence of guns used in crime , it could be very relevant if ballistics could trace this gun to be used in crimes..therefore it has great relevance with him in possession or what might turn out to be a murder weapon...incidently have just before googled gun registry ..in USA it's not illegal to own a unregistered gun...amazing but I guess not a surprise...in the UK you have to have a firearms certificate which lists the gun and it's illegal otherwise..learnt something today..

"Camronwit's gun found to be unregistered"

Bye-Bye You. Enjoy some hospitality courtesy of the Japanese prison system.

Care to explain why the weapon being unregistered will make 1 bit of difference to the outcome, the charge I would assume will be endeavouring to smuggle the weapon onto an aircraft. Registered or unregistered, brand, calibre, serial number, receipts, registration etc. has nothing whatsoever to do with the particular crime / charge.

Correct me if I'm wrong but he can be charged with possession of a unregistered firearm, attempting to board a plane with said weapon. In possession of bullets in said gun..attempting to deceive security personal about owner and registers of gun..possibly charged with entering country with said gun..admitted by him..and I'm sure there's more..all,those he can be charged with..multiple charges all against aviation regulations..oh also I guess failing to declare said gun at check in...if its unregistered it's has to be illegal no??

Interesting. Anyone else remember the bombings on koh samui? Remember when the military government declared it was a plot and that it would name names. big names, but then nothing happened. The investigation seemed to end and no one was named. And then the most powerful man in the region came home and it coincided with the announcement of a multi billion baht palm oil support program.

I can't wait for the General and his entourage to comment on this case.

Not being sarcastic etc but don't follow that..?? Please explain further thanks