halloween

May well be a simple industrial accident. The lid of the normally sealed pit was found in the pit, so it is quite possible the student stepped onto an incorrectly fitted lid and they both fell in. The 4 workers who tried to assist him had a normal human reaction to attempt to help somebody in danger, something which will happen even with highly trained personnel.

If the H2S was at toxic levels they wouldn't smell it. Even more likely is that putrefaction in the pit had reduced oxygen to a very low level. In either case, loss of consciousness occurs very rapidly.

Great yellow press journalism. Ask a leading question, then headline the denial.

Note that in concentrations higher than 20ppm the rotten egg smell can no longer be detected.

http://www.ivhhn.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=83

23 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

What was the reason for the coup?

To ensure the continuation of policies that..."Only relatively few people will be able to take advantage of the new government policies, he said."

Continuation from what? These are new policies.

9 hours ago, Smarter Than You said:

So your question is:

 

 "The Yingluk proposed loan was for B2.2 trillion repayable over 50 years with B3 trillion in interest. Yet you claim a plan involving less than 10% of that sum will cause "years of economic distress." The question was which would cause the greater?"

 

The question is stupid, I'll attempt to answer anyway.

 

The total cost of Yinglucks rail project will be ZERO baht because Yingluck doesn't have a rail project.

The total cost of the Junta's rail project is unknown because there is ZERO transparency in the deal and thanks to Section 44 nobody will until its too late to do anything.

 

So, quite clearly it is the Juntas very real greenlit project that will cause the greater distress.

 

Perhaps the image below will help explain why Yingluck's project costs so little.

 

.

What do you know, two insights for the price of one. Not only your inability to answer accurately, but misogynism as well.

I guess I owe you an answer to your first question - the answer is parabellum.

32 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

Can't even answer if the Junta's deal is a good one, all you know believe is everything Shinawatra is bad, bad, bad.

 

The emperor is indeed without clothes.

 

Don't put the blame for your inability to answer simple questions at my feet - I've always responded to direct questions, always will.

Be a man, own your frailties.

 

 

That's quite humorous. You chose to respond to my post which contained a simple question, without answering it. When you do, I will answer one of your "simple"

questions. Or, you could give us the answers to your questions as they are so simple. Perhaps not.

19 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

Why do you persist with defining everything the Junta does in terms of PTP and the Shinawatras?

Whether Yinglucks proposal was good or bad doesn't matter now - it will never happen, it is in history's trash bin.

 

Judge the Junta and its actions on their merits.

 

Has the Junta's process been sufficiently transparent?

Have the Chinese outplayed the Junta and got the best of the deal?

Who is going to own the value added land along the rail line?

Will this deal give the Chinese even more leverage for the remaining 400km rail to be built costing Thailand even more money?

Is the use of Section 44 to annul laws regarding transparency in government procurement a good thing?

Why was there no international bidding?

Was the Juntas primary goal getting the best deal for Thailand or currying favour with China?

What interest rate is the Junta paying for its loans?

What are the loan terms?

Is it a good thing that there are so many questions that the public don't have answers fore and the project is already approved?

 

Because you think Yinglucks proposal was no good the Junta gets a free pass?

Drop the obsession with the Reds wrongdoings of the past and start making sense by thinking and typing rationally and coherently.

 

Has the Junta negotiated a good deal for the nation?

 

 

 

Due to your apparent inability to answer any questions put to you, I have  decided to adopt a similar attitude, with the generous proviso of reciprocity.

BTW my question to EL was a response to a claim that the junta's proposal will cause "years of economic distress". There is nothing unreasonable about a comparison with a proposal for a much larger loan for a similar proposal from those he, and you, endorse.

At least your barrage of questions don't include any new false claims.

6 minutes ago, Reigntax said:

 

Yes, like the unfortunately fellows who accidently attacked an ATM with an oxy acetylene torch while wearing balaclavas.

 

 

Why concentrate on the petty stuff. KTB has the distinction of having a whole batch of senior management in jail after they approved (on Thaksin's orders) a B1 billion loan to a company that immediately went under. Defendant #1 has a jail sentence waiting his return.

49 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

You (and Korn) don't know what the Juntas plan will cost!

 

"Korn Chatikavanij, a former finance minister who initiated the bullet train concept under the Democrat government, believes the junta has misplayed its hand."

 

"Korn says that if the junta could raise capital domestically at the same 2 percent offered by China (he estimates the government’s cost of funds is closer to 4 percent), the high-speed line would still require “tens of billions” of baht worth of annual subsidies to cover costs even under the rosiest of passenger load estimates."

 

"It’s not clear that Prayut’s shortened line, viewed already by some independent financial analysts as a “face-saving exercise” aimed at sustaining Chinese interest in co-investing in the remaining 400-kilometer segment to the Thai-Lao border, will necessarily be either."

 

And lets not forget to add the cost of the land along the rail line the Junta is handing over to the Chinese to profit from commercial developments.

The price is hardly likely to blow out to 10 times is it? Which was the subject of my post, Yingluk's proposed loan was for B2.2 trillion repayable over 50 years with B3 trillion in interest. but you don't want to talk about that, just throw in more BS and lies. The Chinese claim for trackside land was rejected. Keep the red rag lying.

BTW I agree with Korn, a passenger only system will be a financial disaster. All indications are that this will be a passenger and freight line, and I support a dual usage track, as ever.

51 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Well you need to ask Suthep why? 

Here you go again trying to bs your way. Has the details of the B3 T loan out? 

 The Yingluk proposed loan was for B2.2 trillion repayable over 50 years with B3 trillion in interest. Yet you claim a plan involving less than 10% of that sum will cause "years of economic distress." The question was which would cause the greater?

Just now, Eric Loh said:

Maybe you conveniently avoid the fact that the budget deficit for previous government was much less than the junta budget. So what is you comment on the military hardware purchases which caused a outflow of money and no benefit to the local economy. The rice scheme circulated internally, generated consumption and improve the revenue collection.

 

What about the infrastructure project which was hijacked by the junta and is their keeper now. All this hush-hush, secrecy and non transparent smells of serious corruption. Anyway you cool with this kind of behavior, General. 

Yes, avoid the question again. The Yingluk government was so short that they were up to 6 months behind in rice payments. Tell me how paying back B3 trillion over 50 years wouldn't cause as much distress as you claim this plan would.

1 hour ago, wvavin said:

I would not say that the bank teller was totally wrong unless the authority can prove their case beyond reasonable doubt because there is a possibility of an innocent mistake.

Daily till check would have shown B40,000 excess if not removed.

5 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

The borrowing method is still a work in progress and we can expect another twist to the loan story. While not a banker or an economist, I would think the loan could be financed by local bank syndicate, PPP , domestic infrastructure bond or an external loan. However I doubt local banks have the muscle to finance such a big risky project. The biggest banks only have around a total capitalization of 84B USD each. I will ruled loan from local banks. They tried to invite PPP and sent out invitations. None replied. Infrastructure projects seldom make any profit and the gestation period to breaking even is long. I will ruled that out too. Infrastructure bond likely to be the only route besides external borrowing. However in this time of economic distress, I don't see much appetite for this unless they raise the coupon rate which may attract international investors. That will put the country into much hardship for years to come. Maybe external loans from Asia Infrastructure Investment banks (AIIB), headquarters in Beijing. This is a China conceived investment plan and will mean that Thailand will still advance China's national interest while lowering environmental and human rights standard. Besides an external loan will be dominated in USD and that will again out Thailand at risk. If the infrastructure projects don't complete at the shortest of time and be operational and start earning money, Thailand will be vulnerable to years of economic distress. 

Fascinating stuff. Tell me, how does that compare to this plan, when the country was already looking at B600 billion in losses from her rice scam.

"The big idea is to spend 2 trillion baht ($64 billion) by 2020 towards upgrading the country’s creaking infrastructure. Another 3 trillion baht will come due as interest on the loans, accumulating over the next 50 years. " http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2013/10/infrastructure-spending-thailand

40 minutes ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

Yes and of course we can all see that happening in Thailand.

That's the problem, it's not happening. Too many people are still working small plots of land, and using their numbers to gain financial support to maintain their lifestyle.

10 minutes ago, Chris Lawrence said:

Trolling basically means to inflame the situation.

 

But Hall u made the statement. That's not a flame. Its repeating something you wrote.

 

Now you bring out your statements that have no actual reference to how the calculations are done.

 

Hall again you said the loss is 20%. 2 days ago you said in a reply to my post that the figures cannot be proven as there were no receipts. That's  not a flame.

 

You must be able to show how this is arrived at to maintain credibility?

Trolling also means making false statements to elicit response. You're not getting one.

1 minute ago, Smarter Than You said:

No, all opinions are opinions just as all facts are facts.

What is so hard about this that you guys cannot grasp?

 

Have you read and do you comprehend the article at the start of this thread?

 

I'll make it multiple choice for you (it's easier, you can just guess if you're not sure)

 

Q. How the Junta treats Yingluck in the coming period may have drastic consequences because

 

A -  Yingluck is irrelevant, nobody likes or cares about her

B - Yingluck remains incredibly popular and much loved by the millions of Thais who voted for and they may not accept the unjust persecution of her lying down

or C somewhere between A and B.

as for B, first you would have to prove unjust persecution of a clear case of dereliction of public trust, understand the meaning of "incredible", and then justify any claim that those that voted for her care to do anything about her prosecution without someone paying them B500/day..

2 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

The fake rice deals and cross border smuggling was investigated by the NACC back in early 2013. YL was informed and didn't made any controversial remark regarding the investigation. Matter of fact, what ever happen to this investigation? I have not heard of any development by the NACC. Maybe lack of evidence and they kept quiet.

 

Much like what was reported by 2 of Thailand’s newspapers. 

" Matichon and Khao Sod, did an investigative report on the anti corruption unit, and found that there are 13 corruption charges, related to Abhisit’s Democrat Party, that have been lodge for years and years, and have went no where at the anti corruption unit. Mean while, both The Economist Magazine, and the iconic global political risk firm, IHS says the anti corruption unit, is involved in a “Judicial Coup” against Yingluck)".

Eric, your entire defence of the rice scam is either "Little Johnny did it too" or political persecution. Neither do anything to reduce the clear guilt of the offences for which she is charged.

1 minute ago, Chris Lawrence said:

Hall, u are quoted as saying that there are no figures for the rice scheme as records weren't kept. Now you say losses can be quantified at 20%. Please show the way you have arrived at this figure. 

 

 

Trolling again CL?  Quite clearly I didn't "arrive at this figure" it is what was stated in the ruling against her. IMHO the figure is low by a factor of 4 or 5, but she's hardly likely to bring that up, is she.

Of course, if she had accurate accounting of the rice scam, it would go a long way to her defence, as the lack of accounting is negligence in of itself. But then she would have to show that she did something to stop/reduce the losses, and she did nothing of the sort. Big brother was making too much money to stop it.

6 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Are their any other examples in history of a national leader having to personally pay for a failed national program?

It sure would help keep some of these mega projects under a tight watch. There would probably be a lot less enthusiasm to get elected though.

I say they keep this policy and see how the junta does when it's their turn. Oh right, they already wrote themselves a pass.

Correction, the amount is 20% of the losses from her negligence. If she had acted to curb the losses, she would have a defence. Instead, she tried to borrow more, off-budget, so that the program could continue. Nobody cares much if a policy goes wrong, but those elected have a duty of care to act to reduce the damage being incurred. Failure to do so is criminal negligence.

There might be a lot less enthusiasm from criminals in getting elected. If the policy is kept, when politicians are elected, there will be much more enthusiasm FOR DOING THEIR BLOODY JOB instead of gadding around the world, or getting pissed at international conferences, or running scams.

I'm sure they can find a statute on the books regarding moving/concealing assets to prevent seizure or something similar. personally, I'd just lock her up until the bill is paid - @B2 million per month it should only take 3000 years.

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

Many also say that this is agenda filled political persecution of one side and the same broken law committed by the other side will never ever be convicted. Those cowards seize power and wrote themselves an amnesty to protect from prosecution and change the laws to put their cronies in power in all the enforcement agencies and the NLA. Those are the people who will never be punished and you support them.  

Yeah, life's a bitch innit? Her amnesty got thrown out as being just too self-servingly corrupt, and then the RTA threw her out before she could push it through the next parliament. Tough TIT.

19 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

If the charge is dereliction of duty and inability to stop corruption, then all government programs should be stopped and the RTP chief has to be charged for dereliction of duty and inability to stop corruption. Next will be the RTA for the same charge. 

55555. Good one Eric. First you better work out whose responsibility it is to stop corruption in office, but you just made a pretty good case for the RTA throwing her out on her corrupt Rs.

5 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

That's the very point of this article.

Millions will care, the question is how will they react.

 

"It will definitely be the most sensitive period politically since the 2014 coup."

I can tell you how some will react, there will be a party at my place the day she is jailed. No, that wasn't an invitation.

The guy with the bat thinks HE has the big weapon, but the other guy has a pick-up - should have run the mongrel over with it.

So sorry, foot slipped off the clutch.

3 minutes ago, alant said:

Was it not scheduled to be completed in 2017 originally?

That would depend on whose proposal you are talking about.