Krenjai

Can the defense subpoena Pol Maj Gen Pornchai? Would be interesting to know his opinion when questioned about these two items in a court of law"

• "The lock of hair found in Witheridge's left hand had been taken for a DNA test"
• "The IFM chief said the wounds to Miller's hands and bruises on his back suggested he probably fought with his attacker before being dragged to the ground.

Looking at this again.......so he wants to meet up with his mate but then fells asleep?? HUH? This guy looks like he can swallow a dozen of B52's and still be fit for another dozen Changs and a couple of Thai Wiskeys before passing out, so falling asleep?? I know you tried to save her???? HUH??? How can you say something like that? Unless.......yes! (I thought they were about to have sex when the B2 hit him with a hoe according to the RTP?)

Daily Mail link can be supplied, not sure if I can post that,

Devastated Sean wrote on Facebook:

"My mate Dave lost his life on koh Tao. We were meant to meet up when we found out we were both there at the same time but I fell asleep.

"He was killed that night. I feel f****** terrible.

"I loved you so f****** much brother. I know you tried to save her.

"You are the most honourable guy I’ve ever met. I will miss you terribly.

"I’m sorry I didn’t come out with you that night. Really my heart is breaking."

Something I have not heard about.......we all saw the CCTV footage of the running man and the other suspect, and apart from shorts, they had no clothes on, , no t-shirt, not even flip-floppers. Where did these (bloody) clothes go? David his clothes were found at the crime scene, but what about the clothes of the perpetrators? Did somebody collect all these items after the crime during the night including (sunglasses & a phone)? Must be, yes? I bet this was the same person(s) who put Hannah in the position as she was found! That does make sense, right JD?

Good on ya, mate. I mentioned that several times in prior posts also. There were two people killed, one by stab wounds (possibly followed by drowning), and another bludgeoned, yet no blood anywhere outside the crime scene. Even in the OJ fiasco case, there were bloody things in many places. Yet, on the magical isle of Ko Tao, bloody clothes and shoes disappear like the morning dew. There's been zero mention of bloody anything outside the crime scene, except an early report of a bloody pair of shorts, which turned out to be mud-splattered instead. Oh, there was mention of blood on Sean's guitar, but that was apparently from a separate wound. But was it? His arm wound looks identical to the stab wounds to David, though you won't get Thai officials commenting on that, and here's why: If Sean is a witness, co-perpetrator or has knowledge of the crime, then Sean's testimony would likely incriminate the real perps. You see where this is going? That's why it's no mystery (to most of us) why Sean was threatened with death if he spoke up about what he knew, AND why Sean was very quickly allowed to split from Thailand, without even giving a statement to police.

Even if the dozens of other fuk-ups by Thai officials didn't happen, just their one giant fuk-up regarding Sean would be proof of a cover-up (along with shielding the Headman's people at all costs), in itself.

My scenario of the ending moments of the crime are as follows: Sean may have been somewhere else, maybe playing guitar with the Burmese nearby. He hears major commotion nearby. He goes to investigate or perhaps to aid David (he said later "David was a real hero that night"). The perps are splitting the crime scene, they see another farang (Sean) who they know (note: Thais will assume all farang men will automatically come to the aid of a farang in distress, because that's what Thais do for each other.). Sean is aghast at what he sees/hears, he's stabbed in the arm by the same weapon which killed David, to convey the message, "get the fuk out of here. You didn't see anything, you understand?!"

Yes, I can imagine this as a 100% correct, these have been my identical thoughts as well and I even posted this scenario in a similar way too.

Sean claims however that wound was from a motorbike accident and that there are several people who can confirm that. The wound however looks very much like David's wounds, so I agree on that one. Another strange thing, why didn't he wash off the blood of his guitar for about a week? Why was he "escorted" off the island? All very fishy, yes. Sean claims he mentioned IF he was found dead he knew who did it (Mon & that cop) but did he really mean that? Or did he mean, I know who did it? I guess we will never know, he will definitely not show up as a witness during the trial. He fumed all over Soundcloud & Youtube he is innocent, knows nothing, and was heaving breakfast that very morning the bodies were discovered. He gave a testimony though to UK officers of what he knows, so he says and he also believes (knows) the B2 are innocent. Again, we will never know, he may even speak the truth but your scenario seems very plausible because all the dots connect. If it smell like sh*t, it probably is sh*t, right?

There is something that has been bothering me since I first saw those awful pictures - who put that green towel over Hannah's face? If it was the police, then I would assume they would of covered her up completely - no? Was it just her facial injuries that was thought to be too horrifying? If that was the thinking, I believe the whole body should of been covered (def if just out of respect). Or, was she found that way?

I ask because it also seems (and I believe someone on here already pointed it out, that she was raped post-mortem). I have been following the posts on here/news/csila since it happened, and I don't believe the Burmese killed either of them. I have lived in Thailand on and off for about 8 years. I've seen the very nasty and I've seen the good, but to tell you the truth the last few visits have had me a little on edge.I can't explain it properly - just a feeling of never really being safe, a feeling that has been expressed from both my thai and western friends. Which is a shame.

Anyway, that picture with the towel has never sat well with me.

We also should try to watch out for each other, us westerners seem very disconnected to each other there and that shouldn't be.

Sorry for the long post and hello Thai Visa

Maybe you have a point that she was raped post-mortem and that is why the green towel was over her face. Maybe, or like you say, the police did it to cover her face because of the horrific sight. Personally I believe it was done by the police but who knows......

Also, IMHO, she was dragged to the position in which she was found (blood trail in the sand) and her legs were obviously put in the position how she was found. I just can't believe somebody who was brutally murdered like Hannah would be found with legs in THAT symmetrical position knees up. It definitely looked more like somebody has been orchestrating the crime scene.

Just imagine these two small Burmese doing all this while killing David at the same time who is over 6ft, then go to sleep with no blood on you, not in their room, not on them, not on their clothes, not even a tiny spatter, nothing! They went to work the next day and ...ah yes, they threw away David his (sunglasses?) and phone in the bushes behind their room where they live and didn't flee the island. yeah, it makes a lot sense, right JD?

If you are going to ask me, start with facts and not supposition.

You are here 24/7 for damage control.....or?

Something I have not heard about.......we all saw the CCTV footage of the running man and the other suspect, and apart from shorts, they had no clothes on, , no t-shirt, not even flip-floppers. Where did these (bloody) clothes go? David his clothes were found at the crime scene, but what about the clothes of the perpetrators? Did somebody collect all these items after the crime during the night including (sunglasses & a phone)? Must be, yes? I bet this was the same person(s) who put Hannah in the position as she was found! That does make sense, right JD?

There is something that has been bothering me since I first saw those awful pictures - who put that green towel over Hannah's face? If it was the police, then I would assume they would of covered her up completely - no? Was it just her facial injuries that was thought to be too horrifying? If that was the thinking, I believe the whole body should of been covered (def if just out of respect). Or, was she found that way?

I ask because it also seems (and I believe someone on here already pointed it out, that she was raped post-mortem). I have been following the posts on here/news/csila since it happened, and I don't believe the Burmese killed either of them. I have lived in Thailand on and off for about 8 years. I've seen the very nasty and I've seen the good, but to tell you the truth the last few visits have had me a little on edge.I can't explain it properly - just a feeling of never really being safe, a feeling that has been expressed from both my thai and western friends. Which is a shame.

Anyway, that picture with the towel has never sat well with me.

We also should try to watch out for each other, us westerners seem very disconnected to each other there and that shouldn't be.

Sorry for the long post and hello Thai Visa

Maybe you have a point that she was raped post-mortem and that is why the green towel was over her face. Maybe, or like you say, the police did it to cover her face because of the horrific sight. Personally I believe it was done by the police but who knows......

Also, IMHO, she was dragged to the position in which she was found (blood trail in the sand) and her legs were obviously put in the position how she was found. I just can't believe somebody who was brutally murdered like Hannah would be found with legs in THAT symmetrical position knees up. It definitely looked more like somebody has been orchestrating the crime scene.

Just imagine these two small Burmese doing all this while killing David at the same time who is over 6ft, then go to sleep with no blood on you, not in their room, not on them, not on their clothes, not even a tiny spatter, nothing! They went to work the next day and ...ah yes, they threw away David his (sunglasses?) and phone in the bushes behind their room where they live and didn't flee the island. yeah, it makes a lot sense, right JD?

Samples of DNA test results

DNA Test with POSITIVE RESULTS.png-DNA-test-results.jpg

The defense would be negligent to allow examples such as these pass without challenge. I would hope for them to request a full chain of evidence leading to a printout as such. They need to get the smartest expert this side of Saturn to deal with DNA issues. My gut tells me DNA will be the one that the prosecution is hanging their hat on.

Of course they will hang their hat on (tampered) DNA.

The defense will have enormous trouble to fight this and prove the DNA was tampered with because the prosecutor will back that up with a load of fabricated circumstantial evidence like a phone & sunglasses + some dubious witlessness. I can't see how the defense can be successful (I may be wrong, but I just can't see it). The B2 will be found guilty and probably sentenced to death.

I wonder how people will deal with this verdict, it is the same as believing the B2 were the ones caught on CCTV, as believing there was no other murder weapon than the hoe........you must have a lower intelligence than that of an amoeba if you buy that crap!

I am totally disgusted that the wishes of the victims' families, i.e. that a fair and transparent trial, is not going to happen. There is no disclosure, which is unfair to both sides and is hardly transparent.

Add to that the diminished time frame for the defence to submit documents to the court is anything but fair. Justice is not going to happen in this case. I don't even think that the authorities consider what the outside world thinks - they just don't give a monkey's, except to finalise this case. The B2 will be found guilty. End of story - bleat about it, but nothing will change.

"The defense team has been given just sixteen days to prepare their case, which has been brought forward from February 25^th 2015 to December 26^th, Boxing Day in the UK and the anniversary of the Asian Tsunami.

The prosecution has made no disclosure of their witness statements while the defense has been asked to produce a full witness list, according to lead defense lawyer Nakhon Chompuchat. Reports suggest that the prosecution have only provided a six page document for the defense team to go on giving the defense team no time to prepare challenges to prosecution witnesses."

http://www.samuitimes.com/letter-two-accused-koh-tao-murders-daw-aung-san-suu-kyi-myanmar-democracy-icon/

Letter from the B2 @ CSILA & Samui Times and you know what JD, I believe them!! Poor fellows!

http://www.samuitimes.com/letter-two-accused-koh-tao-murders-daw-aung-san-suu-kyi-myanmar-democracy-icon/

To: Daw Aung San Suu Kyi,

We pay obedience to the Buddha, Dharma, Sangha, our parents and our teachers.

The truth is we are not really involved in this case. We want you to help us. So we write this letter to you from our imprisonment. We were not involved in this crime. We do not want to be in jail anymore. We think the killer went to another country already. We think it is injustice that we are in the jail. We want justice and equality.

When you are reading this letter, we do not know really how you will think about us, but if possible we want you to help us, and we are also asking the help from you.

We are poor, so we came to Thailand to work and save money. My friend, Zaw Lin, he does not have father, he has to support his widow mother.

I (Wai Phyo) also have to support my grandmother and parents. In the beginning when we arrived in Thailand we suffered many difficulties, we do not want to be suffering like poor people and we tried to work hard and sent money back to our parents regularly, we were happy so much for that.

But now our hopes are broken. We are worried about our parents, who will support them, and we miss our parents every day, when we miss them we are crying. When we go to bed we pray for all people and creatures in the world to have safety, peace, good health and happiness. Please also pray for us to be released from this case.

A May Suu, please have pity on us.

Wai Phyo and Zaw Lin

The prosecution must have solid evidence if they are so confident! So im presuming they have the following.

DNA on Hannah matching one or both of the suspects

DNA/fingerprints of one or both of the suspects on the hoe.

CCTV footage of one or both suspects walking around Koh Tao after the attack.

Witness testimony of bruising or wounds the following day after the attack. Remember the coroner said David's hands showed signs of a fighting back. Must of been hitting something!

If they don't have any of the above what do they have? Guess we will have to wait and see.

Yet another poster who has missed the point - it is the procedure and processes that have rendered any trial a farce regardless of what "evidence" is produced.

In the states or UK this trial would never have taken place.

I haven't missed the point! I am a keen supporter of the B2(Don't think they did it and if they did they were not alone!) My post is what should be expected for this case to go ahead.

Agree with your posts........

DNA: Even if they have this it doesn't mean a thing, anybody that believes the B2 are innocent will not believe the RTP's DNA findings. That is why we need independently verified DNA form the repatriated bodies against fresh B2 samples.

Fingerprints: Hmmmm..........same as above......on the hoe, phone or even the recently introduced sunglasses...... it doesn't mean a thing. They could have been planted. On top of this, to expect the world to believe there was only one murder weapon already disqualifies the whole RTP report. Even the RTP reported in the early days there was a second murder weapon. By looking at David's his wounds (+no DNA from David on the hoe) the defense should have enough ammunition to rip this RTP case apart.

CCTV: If there was such a thing that would damage the B2 we would have seen it by now. They don't have it, all circumstantial.

Witness Testimony: This is tricky one as there are 20 (twenty) witnesses. Nobody denies they were near the crime scene, they don't even deny that themselves, but bruises? No, the RTP would have taken pictures and would have showed the world how clever they were. The witnesses are there to support the circumstantial evidence as a back-up of the DNA.

Only one thing, and one thing only will get them of the hook, again: "independently verified DNA form the repatriated bodies against fresh B2 samples", and even if that could be produced it is still questionable they get off, why? Because it was DECIDED they were quilty long time ago, regardless of the evidence.

Ah yes, ALL IMHO.

Andy Hall: some tweets from the RTP in London.

Tweet 1) Senior official meeting in London all agreed Koh Tao case transparent successful investigation

Tweet 2) Family victims Koh Tao case confident in Police investigation as professional/correct

So everybody agrees the case was transparent & successfully investigated + the family victims are confident this investigation was professional & correct. I wonder what the definition of professional is in Thai. Do they mean uploading crime scene pictures to Facebook as professional? And what about transparency? Do they mean the pancake vendor who claimed the bottle of wine was the second murder weapon was an officially appointed translator? And what about correct? Do they mean people all walking over a crime scene with no forensic DNA expert present is correct?

I tell you what, it is the prefect case!

Apparently the families are buying it, so I guess CSILA can cancel his ballistic dummies experiment. It all seems like a done deal before the defense has even seen the evidence. I fear it is game over for the B2 as some predicted on day one they were arrested.

Most people predicted the Burmese lads would have committed suicide by now, or have been killed by someone being paid to do so in the jail cell.

Are the family buying it ? Not so sure of that. Mark Kent still remains silent on the issue.

In fact it was the RTP who said they feared they would commit "suicide".........personally I believe that would have been the case hadn't they received adequate protection and thousands of people on social media questioning this perfect case!

Family buying it? So it seems! If not, the RTP makes themselves even more ridiculous by tweeting about how perfect their perfect case is/was.

We'll see.......

You can see one 6 days ago on Bangkok Post site. Other links are on this thread.

No no we all saw that one....I even posted about this on Dec 4th

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/781591-koh-tao-thai-court-charges-pair-over-murders-of-british-backpackers/page-3#entry8759031

I mean a much older link please, not one from the last week, lets say anything between the crime date (+ 2 months or so) with the wording spectacles / sunglasses. Thank you!

The sunglasses were referred to as spectacles in previous news reports.

But don't let that prevent a good conspiracy theory!

link?

The Sunglasses......

As we all have seen, besides the mobile phone, the accused have now been charged with stealing David's sunglasses as well.....

1. Where do these sunglasses come from suddenly?
2. Why now, almost 3 months into the investigation, why we hear about this now?
3. Normally the RTP screamed every single piece of evidence all over the media for the world to hear, why this one was kept a "secret"?
4. This one we have not heard from before, how come?
5. Isn't it highly illogical to keep somebody's sunglasses after such an horrific crime?
6. Where was it found?
7. Was it in the B2's possession?
8. Or was it also behind their house where they apparently threw away the phone?
9. Were there any fingerprints on these sunglasses?
10. When were these sunglasses found?
11. What model sunglasses did David have?
12. Why did he carry his sunglasses that night?
13. Is there any picture from David with his sunglasses?
14. Is this maybe a crucial piece of circumstantial evidence that tipped over the prosecutor to prosecute
15. Anybody heard about these sunglasses before?

Version 1:

After some excellent investigation of the RTP they found these sunglasses in the bushes not too far from the B2's room. This new breakthrough came after they were tipped off by a new eyewitness. Excellent work RTP!

Version 2:

After the case being send back for the 2nd or 3rd time somebody figured out something more was needed besides the phone, a new piece of circumstantial evidence maybe back-upped by a new eyewitness?

I know what my choice would be.......I also know who will prefer the first version.

Or version 3, your are not privy to all the details of the investigation; how that obvious, simple and most likely explanation eluded you should give you pause.

You are correct I don't know all the details of the investigation, however it is an indisputable fact the RTP has been screaming ALL their findings & evidence all over the media drum like a Hollywood movie since day one of this investigation........ except this one, this one comes falling out of the blue sky! That is very very very strange to say the least and I question every single bit of information out there, especially if it suddenly comes from an RTP press release.

The Sunglasses......

As we all have seen, besides the mobile phone, the accused have now been charged with stealing David's sunglasses as well.....

1. Where do these sunglasses come from suddenly?
2. Why now, almost 3 months into the investigation, why we hear about this now?
3. Normally the RTP screamed every single piece of evidence all over the media for the world to hear, why this one was kept a "secret"?
4. This one we have not heard from before, how come?
5. Isn't it highly illogical to keep somebody's sunglasses after such an horrific crime?
6. Where was it found?
7. Was it in the B2's possession?
8. Or was it also behind their house where they apparently threw away the phone?
9. Were there any fingerprints on these sunglasses?
10. When were these sunglasses found?
11. What model sunglasses did David have?
12. Why did he carry his sunglasses that night?
13. Is there any picture from David with his sunglasses?
14. Is this maybe a crucial piece of circumstantial evidence that tipped over the prosecutor to prosecute
15. Anybody heard about these sunglasses before?

Version 1:

After some excellent investigation of the RTP they found these sunglasses in the bushes not too far from the B2's room. This new breakthrough came after they were tipped off by a new eyewitness. Excellent work RTP!

Version 2:

After the case being send back for the 2nd or 3rd time somebody figured out something more was needed besides the phone, a new piece of circumstantial evidence maybe back-upped by a new eyewitness?

I know what my choice would be.......I also know who will prefer the first version.

So..........

Scotland Yard spent only two hours on Koh Tao and did not meet with either the accused or their legal team.....Wow!! Great job Sherlock, then again what else could you have done? You were only there to observe the powerful and convincing evidence of the RTP. No wonder the family statement says the evidence APPEARS to be powerful and convincing.

I say it one more time, I will never believe in a million years the B2 are guilty unless I have seen independently (non-thai) verified DNA (if that is/was still possible). Nothing can change my mind, and definitively not a million posts from JD praising the RTP.

This case stinks too high heaven! So Sherlock, to end all this show the world your DNA findings! Just say you did independently verify the DNA from the repatriated bodies against fresh B2 samples and you will publish the result in due time. The fact that you didn't even meet them says it all.........you did not check the DNA, you accepted the RTP results. The B2 deserve better and so do their families!

Please show me a post where I praised the RTP.

"Nothing can change my mind " is probably true. You have decided not only are the accused not guilty, you have also decided who is. All without a trial.

Even if you post a million posts, you for sure will not change my mind and BTW, I've said numerous times what would change my mind: independently (non--thai) verified matching DNA evidence between the B2 and the repatriated bodies. By the way did you know I hardly read your posts? They are all the same, <deleted>

I, for one, live in Thailand. I expect Thai judicial processes to be run by Thailand and not by outside agencies. Like you said "I have said numerous times"... They are all the same nothing can change your mind.

When there is no damning DNA mentioned in the UK coroner's inquest, you will just decide the case isn't solvable?

Edit - still waiting for one post where I praised the RTP.

Wrong, if there is damning DNA, meaning the UK coroner ran a DNA test from the repatriated bodies (if that was still possible) against fresh samples of the B2 collected by non-thai officers, I will change my mind. Is that so difficult to understand? If however the UK coroner relied on samples given to them by the RTP from the B2 and compared them with his own findings this will NOT change my mind. That will be like a Nomsod test with results already known beforehand.

Keep the praises coming!

So..........

Scotland Yard spent only two hours on Koh Tao and did not meet with either the accused or their legal team.....Wow!! Great job Sherlock, then again what else could you have done? You were only there to observe the powerful and convincing evidence of the RTP. No wonder the family statement says the evidence APPEARS to be powerful and convincing.

I say it one more time, I will never believe in a million years the B2 are guilty unless I have seen independently (non-thai) verified DNA (if that is/was still possible). Nothing can change my mind, and definitively not a million posts from JD praising the RTP.

This case stinks too high heaven! So Sherlock, to end all this show the world your DNA findings! Just say you did independently verify the DNA from the repatriated bodies against fresh B2 samples and you will publish the result in due time. The fact that you didn't even meet them says it all.........you did not check the DNA, you accepted the RTP results. The B2 deserve better and so do their families!

Please show me a post where I praised the RTP.

"Nothing can change my mind " is probably true. You have decided not only are the accused not guilty, you have also decided who is. All without a trial.

Even if you post a million posts, you for sure will not change my mind and BTW, I've said numerous times what would change my mind: independently (non--thai) verified matching DNA evidence between the B2 and the repatriated bodies. By the way did you know I hardly read your posts? They are all the same, <deleted>

So..........

Scotland Yard spent only two hours on Koh Tao and did not meet with either the accused or their legal team.....Wow!! Great job Sherlock, then again what else could you have done? You were only there to observe the powerful and convincing evidence of the RTP. No wonder the family statement says the evidence APPEARS to be powerful and convincing.

I say it one more time, I will never believe in a million years the B2 are guilty unless I have seen independently (non-thai) verified DNA (if that is/was still possible). Nothing can change my mind, and definitively not a million posts from JD praising the RTP.

This case stinks too high heaven! So Sherlock, to end all this show the world your DNA findings! Just say you did independently verify the DNA from the repatriated bodies against fresh B2 samples and you will publish the result in due time. The fact that you didn't even meet them says it all.........you did not check the DNA, you accepted the RTP results. The B2 deserve better and so do their families!

The Two Men Charged With the Thai Backpacker Murders Face a Dubious Trial

The two Burmese migrant workers accused of killing a pair of British backpackers on an idyllic Thai beach appearedin court to be formality indicted Thursday. But there are growing fears that any trial will be a sh

http://time.com/3617617/thailand-koh-tao-murder-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-indictment/

From the article link

"However, they spent only two hours on Koh Tao after arriving by helicopter and did not meet with either the accused or their legal team. Their findings have still not been released."

Well well well, this looks like an incredible amount of time invested by Sherlock Holmes & Co. to look, cheerio mates!

But as reported earlier on and repeated by many of the Then Pro UK Investigators on other threads, other UK investigators arrived days earlier secretly.

007?