foolforlove

its not specifically gay, but there is a hostel on Naritiwat Road just east of Silom (on the north east corner). Right near Chong Nongsi BTS.

i have had gay friends stay there with good experiences...and they thought the staff was gay or at least gay friendly....

i dont know the price... but i believe its part of the Hosteling Intl network...

really? ok thats good news.

the bangkok lao embassy website makes it seem that "visa on arrival" is not possible at chongmek

and that i have to go to BKK or Khon Khaen lao consulate in advance to get the lao visa....

thanks

hi everyone,

i am in ubon for two weeks or so.

and i would like to to go laos next crossing at chong mek.

from what i have read, i can NOT get lao visa "on arrival" at this border.

so does anyone know a service or travel agency or something in Ubon that will handle getting the lao visa for me?

thanks

hi all

i am in Ubon Ratchathani city for two weeks or so.

i see lots of nice guys.

as far as i can tell from other websites, theres no official gay bar or gay hangout of any kind in ubon.

but anyone know where people hang out? perhaps a bar that is gay friendly or a cafe or anything?

any leads would be great

thanks

Hi there,

I have a USA Passport.

I got a 90-day Non-B Visa single entry in Vientienne Laos.

It ends in early May 2006.

Originally, I thought that I would work (teaching english) but because of a death in my family (in the USA), I want to relax for several months.

I had thought I would just leave Thailand in May right before this Non-B expires (e.g. visa run) and just come back in on a 30-day tourist visa. Then continue visa runs for a couple months until I am ready to work. Is this possible?

Or, what are my best(other) options?

thanks

My view is that love relationships are a mixture of feelings for each other and also needs being met.

And "needs" are emotional, financial, mental, and physical.

I think we usually think of a primary relationship as largely meeting all these needs of both people.

If two people are together, and their needs are not being met, then that relationship will not last -- at least not in that form. The relationship will have to

change to allow the unmet needs to be met somewhere/somehow.

If someone wants to be with me, and perhaps their initial draw is based on financial need, we can not say that the relationship will not grow/change to be connected on the other categories.

I think relationships change over time. And where there is a relationship, people dialogue about their needs and things that they are happy with or unhappy with. Perhaps your partner smokes and you do not like that. So this is something you two talk about or work out in some way. How is that different than talking about not connecting on an emotional level? Where is the line drawn between relationship issues to classify them as serious or not serious (ie, dont smoke versus do you really feel love for me)?

Also expanding on the idea of relationships change over time... they are not cast in stone. They are living and evolve like everything else. I dont think its possible to say ok this is a real loving relationship right now, so snapshot, and its set in stone. And it is hard to say a relationship is all "one thing only".

Some posters here have tried to classify different degrees or types of love.

But I am unsure how with certainty we can ever know what someone else is feeling? Two people might speak and say "I love you".... but do they REALLY know they both feel the same sort of thing? Do they really know that the word "love" means the same thing to the other person?

We can only infer indirectly from how people behave towards us their feelings. And that is rife with problems. Because we are posing our interpretations and valuation on their actions to try to discern feelings and motivations that drove those actions to happen.

I know a guy who sometimes I think his interest in me is primarily financial.

But at the same time, when I am feeling down or need help if I call on him he is

there. He is generous with his time. And I think often sacrafices and does things for me that he would prefer not to do. Does them without complaint. We dont always agree on everything. And all my needs are not met in my relationship with him. He is more like a brother to me than a lover (my judgement). But I do love him. And he says he loves me. In fact the more I write this posting and reflect on our time together, the more I realize that I love him and that I am probably too harsh on any financial motives he has.

ChrisP and IJWT.

Thanks again.

ChrisP: sorry for the confusion on the "best friend" versus "more than friend" thing. What I was trying to say is that type of guy (mountain bike muddy) is the kind of guy I want to be around either as best friend or romantically.

And that when I met this str8(?) guy, I thought I had found someone with similar interests. Someone who would be a good male best friend. I did not think I would develop romantic feelings for him because he wouldn't be giving me any emotional feedback to cause that to happen.

Then after like 6 weeks, he started saying things like "khitung khun" when he didnt see me, giving me a wallet photo, and giving me backrubs and hugs and so forth.

At first I thought "oh this is just friendly thai guy. how nice and sweet. amazing thailand yada yada.".

In a funny twist, I plagarized something this guy said to me in thai and said it to one of my thai aquaintances at the gym. (always trying to expand what I can say in thai y'know). The guy gave me this wierd look and said "what? are you gay?!!".

So then I started checking out things said/done with several thai gay friends and they were all like "whoa! he is NOT str8! no thai str8 guy would say or do that! not only not str8 but interested in you". one of them might even have muttered that i am blind and clueless. j/k.

So this is how we started down this slippery slope... where my attention got caught.... and my feelings invoked.

I know some other thai coworkers of his both male and female, who all speak English much better than him. I've alternately heard them say he is str8 or bisexual on different occasions. Sometimes the same person switching answers from one occasion to the next. I've pretty much concluded they really don't know, he doesn't really tell them, or I should forget my western-fixed labelized notions of sexuality for Thailand. Probably "D" - 'all of the above'.

And yes he is from a very small village so, like you said, I think he is shy about sex. See its stuff like that where I start thinking "yeah there are interpretations of the scenario that say I could have just a nice shy bisexual guy, somewhat closested, on my hands who is genuinely interested in me".

All along I've really enjoyed his friendship. If I think back over the last several months, the times we are together are some of my happiest times in Thailand. Going to Isan Music Bar... karaoke... we both discovered we wanted to get our first tattoo so we went and did that together (that was an experience!).

As I think you have alluded to, he could be just pretending to like guys. And its entirely possible he has done some of these "gay" things out of some sort of misguided idea of friendship and that he is being true friend and sacracficing for me. I am not a mind reader.....unfortunately.

If he wants to be with me romantically, I guess its just wait and see? I don't see another option for ferreting out the truth.

I should just hold back and let him come closer.

Argh. He has me as a friend and nothing extra needs to be done.

No pretending needed......

I will check out that link and the Thailand Fever book.

IJWT and ChrisP.

Thank you for your comments.

It gives me some things to consider.

I had a long term relationship end about 3 years ago. And so when I came to Thailand about 4 months ago, I was not looking for anything romantic.

This is sort of how I got connected with this guy. I wanted male companionship without sex or anything like that. Since I thought he was straight, I thought I had a way to spend uncomplicated time with someone. And we have similar tastes in music and enjoy sports and so forth. This is the kind of guy you could go ride your mountain bikes together through the mud and enjoy getting all muddy together. That's the kind of guy I like. It seems not as common anywhere I have lived. I usually avoid bars and clubs because I don't enjoy them and I think guys with the kind of interests/way of life that I have are not to be found there (of course there are always exceptions but I speak in percentages/generalities). Maybe if I could find the bar the gay muay thai fighters go to then I would be set?

I also was looking for someone to speak Thai with. His ability in English and mine in Thai are close to each other. So this makes us well matched. Most of the gay guys I have met in Thailand have mastered so much English that it ceases making sense and is just frustrating (for them) to talk to me in Thai.

Sometimes its hard for me to not give reasonable doubt that I do not understand enough about a culture and so forth. What I mean is its easy for me to look at the signs that he is interested in me romantically positively -- and think that the signs he is not interested I might be judging too harshly. We were already spending time together, it wasn't necessary to tell me how much he missed me when I had to go away for a week or so. Or to be affectionate with me. Stuff like that.

As for the rent issue... I did not spell out all the details here but the reason for free rent was that I expected him to help me with some things I need to get done (not sex!) and I saw this as sort of his "salary".

I think you raise a good point about self-reflection and understanding. Reflecting on it now, I think I am still "gun shy" from my past. And that if I was dating any gay guy, they would have emotional demands on me and be pushing the speed of the relationship. With this guy, its never going to go any emotionally faster than I want and perhaps slower than I want. So this feeds into me feeling safe from being hurt again/more.

So... I live here in Bangkok. I met a guy and we became friends. For the first couple months, we hung out together and would go to movies and so forth.

I would always pay. Often we would spend time working on his English (which is not good) or he teaches me things in Thai (which I am studying). Since he works six days a week, we would see each other on his one day off.

He works a legitimate job at a restaurant. Making very little of course. Lives in an apartment with some siblings and is from upcountry.

I started out believing he was straight. But over time, he became more affectionate. And when I asked Thai gay friends about things he said or did, they invariably said "no straight thai guy would do/say that!". And he clearly knows I am gay.

When he had to work the night of Loy Khatrong, he apoligized he could not go with me. I told him I would go with a friend and he looked either worried or jealous. Until I explained it was a farang female friend from school.

So I tried asking in various ways if he likes guys or girls. Always getting answers I did not understand. Usually because he answered in English, not his forte, and the sentence was confusing and ambigious in English. I know when we are in public (at the mall or what have you), he does tend to look at women.

Sometimes he asks for things, usually very reasonable things. Like the zipper broke on his pants for work and we went somewhere and got a new pair for 200 baht.

Sometimes he takes me to out of the way places like an Isan music bar or a karaoke club. We will stay a couple hours and the bill for the night can be 500-1000 baht. Maybe a little expensive but not unreasonable for what we ordered. I think sometimes I am the only farang these places have ever seen. Customers there treat me like a celebrity, encourage me to dance and love to chat with me. He seems to beam and love to show me off as his farang friend.

I know how little money he makes and he says how his one priority in life is to send money home to his parents. He is the oldest son and the second oldest child.

Sometimes he asks if I can help him come to my home country so he could find work to send more money home.

When he tells me is hungry, I give him a little pocket money for a meal (100 baht)... and more recently, once a week or so 500 or 1000 baht.

When we are out together, he seems generous with his friends - for example giving them 100 baht (if the friend is up singing at the music bar and others are giving them tips). Sometimes he offers to pay for simple things (taxis, a drink, etc). And occasionally he gives me small gifts: tshirt or something like that.

On a recent night out, he did introduce me to a friend (who was pretty handsome) as his "younger brother" (not literally). My gaydar went off and the guy seemed very keen on getting my phone number and so forth. I thought at one point he was trying to introduce me to a nice gay guy because he was not interested in me. If this was the story, I didn't take the bait (for a couple reasons...).

I suggested that in a few months maybe we could share a studio apartment. That he could live with me and not pay rent. And we would each help each other with the others language. He seemed interested in this. And now he does stay at my house occasionally just sleeping in the same bed and pretty affectionate (but nothing else going on!).

He did say recently when I asked that he likes both men and women equally (I guess his way of saying bisexual). This was the first time I got a clear answer that made sense. But he also says he thinks he would like to get married someday. He is in his mid-20's. I would say he is ruggedly handsome and definitly not a pretty face/pretty boy.

I told him recently I am starting to have feelings for him. Which I think surprised him. Maybe shocked him. Though he seemed to say that "feen" was possible once we shared the apartment. I have to go away to work for a couple months and then come back to stay for a year. When I come back is when we would get the apartment.

I know that although for my home country I am not rich, for here I am. And I certainly have more money than he has ever seen. I think he (now) has (more) expectations that I will be generous - probably in the same way he is generous with others. Generous as far as going to places like the music bar and also generous in what I might help him out with weekly.

So what am I asking?

Does it really seem possible he is interested in guys - or is he just pretending that for my benefit? If he is interested in guys, he is very closeted about that aspect of himself. And certainly has a seemingly non-existent sex drive or very very shy.

Have I created a money boy? Or have I just discovered a low maintenance money boy? :-)

Even if its strictly a roommate (business) arrangement, I am still interested in having him share my home for the benefit of practicing Thai and learning about Thailand etc etc. There is only so much you can learn in a classroom. And he seems genuinely kind and honest. How is this best arranged? Should we both sign the lease for the apartment? I assume the security deposit would come 100% from me. I am hoping that with me paying the rent he will be more financially secure with his job earnings and I will be looked to less as providing ad hoc cash. What pitfalls and issues are here? Both legally (as far as the apt lease/deposit) and culturally about expectations for each other?

Thanks!