wildewillie89

There are bigger things to worry about than dual pricing, that as far as I am aware only really happens at Khao Yai. I generally won't go to many tourist areas so I am not aware of other places. It is the same reason you probably wouldn't go to tourists areas in your own country, you can find the exact same thing for free 5kms down the road. Is language really needed? Probably not. You don't need to be able to speak Thai to live everyday life. Everyday life usually consists of work, re-fueling your car, ordering food, shopping, going to the doctor/vet (minor things) - who can speak enough English etc. The more serious things should be translated anyway, as you know, they are serious lol. And whatever level of Thai you learn, will probably never be at a level that can be effective in serious situations anyway (most bachelor educated students cannot pass the Thai language exam to work for the government). Visas can be annoying if you don't have the money, but if you do, then it is a non-issue. 

I think bigger issues are things like environmental health. Burning off, the amount of sugar/salt in everything (high diabetes rates) etc. Seeing the mistreatment of animals and people by supposedly 'spiritual' people. I don't think it is being a 'drama queen' to complain about these things, I think it takes some intelligence/ethics to recognise them in the first place. To ignore them I think shows that the person is incredibly selfish and is here just for themselves (to use and abuse a developing country if you like - rather than the bullshit cultural adjustment excuse they try and portray). Educate the people around you into a better lifestyle (which many older folk are not ready for, but at the same time many of the younger generation are). Just in my village, people are raising their babies slightly differently now (after seeing how we raised our baby - as the farang baby everyone looks out for), people are becoming more aware of the dangers of burning off (as is it received differently coming from a farang - Thai know farang are better educated and accept that), people are starting to take more notice of how dogs need to be looked after so they don't just go around biting everyone (took getting bitten by 2 dogs to get that into their heads lol). I think you must constructively criticise if you ever want to develop (even if it just your immediate area). And you also must recognise so you can plan a life around the things you do to benefit your family. It maybe discussing things with a school to get a more Western based educational structure for your child. It may be refusing unnecessary medicine or choosing 'better' times when to vaccinate children/pets which will have more chances of success and less chances of side effects. 

Criticise, but criticise to get the best result for your family and the community (not yourself). The community can see the benefit of that. I think otherwise you're just a sitting duck that is going to either live an unhealthy life (as the life is unhealthy - even Thai are the first ones to admit that), or live a life of misery as you don't put yourself/family out there as almost a model structure that the community can follow to live a healthier/safer life. Plus it saves them money due to not needing many unnecessary things the community culture currently dictates. My extended Thai family (which makes up most of the village) has already stopped the unnecessary anti-biotics, annual vaccinations of dogs, Thai drugs supposedly helping people/animals. Realise the importance of helmets, seat belts, baby seats. Understand that formal education as a 2 year old rather than a 6 year old is ridiculous...You just have to  be smart. Pick your fights with what matter, that is teachers, doctors, vets, people causing harm to the community etc. And let minor things go. Corruption, unfortunately it all depends on the family or social group you marry in to and who they are/know.

I admit, my father in law is the Mayor of the Tessaban where we live (so how we do things is generally mirrored), and being a 27 year old farang, people obviously take more notice than the older farang who live here permanently. However, I personally think it is an utter disrespect to yourself, your family, and the new community you live in, if you can see a better way of doing something that benefits all and choose not to do it. Why not do it? Are we scared of being labelled a 'drama queen' on a forum by some old guy who obviously hasn't succeeded in his country enough to retire comfortably so has had come to a developing country to do it. Or being labelled as an 'idealist'. You cant change things on a national level (lets be realistic here), but you can certainty make changes at a local level if you really want to....educating is better than complaining/ignoring anyway. 

21 hours ago, Naam said:

how long is a piece of string, what colour does it have and where can buy one? must have good quality, high tensile strength and low price!  

Off topic - 'moved to string forum'

32 minutes ago, kannot said:

"work out the tonew weight cost and then visit a local buyer " whats this for then? nothing wrong with the 20 year study are you saying any study done 20 years ago is  irrelevant if so virtually  all research done is obsolete.

That is true. Although off topic (I'm sure it will get deleted lol), look at the animal vaccination studies done in the late 70s. Took the world 30 odd years, Asia still wont accept it, to change their laws regarding annual vaccinations. Unless there are newer studies that debunk the 20 year old studies, then the assumption must be that they are still relevant. 

I am from Melbourne, and do love and miss Australia. However, all of those things other than owning land and dual citizenship you can get in Thailand. At the end of the day Thai rewards their own. So if you work and study hard or have the opportunity to then you will get rewarded. Yes, it is an elitist way of thinking but the country is ruled by elites after all. We all know that so it is on us to live with it if we move here, no matter how shit it is. 
 

I moved to Thailand when I was 26 years old. I opened my bank account on my initial tourist visa instantly. I then got married. The Thai government paid for my marriage certificate (as I was advertising a city for them). The day I received my marriage certificate I also received my free health cover (which has been good seeing as I had my appendix taken out and 2 dog bites recently - 0 baht). I also get free medicine, free health checks for work for the duration of my life. My wife will also get a substantial payout and pension when she retires (entitled to early retirement at 50 I think). This is important as moving here so early, Australia will probably not pay my pension unless i move back. 

 My child and future children are also entitled to free education until they finish their bachelor degree and half price private education from memory. I will apply for a PR visa after the 3 year marriage visas. Being one of the few 'young' farangs living here, most shops either give me things for free or at reduced prices (obviously a different story in tourist areas). Thai are famous for their generosity, outside of tourist areas of course. I think if you show you're married you will find most places let you in for the same price as your wife. As for the police, luckily I married into a family of police and army so I have never had any worries. 

Really there is only 2 things that annoy me here. One, is the money you need in  the bank for the visa, but I just open an Australian dollar to an Australian dollar account for the 3 months before hand. The second is more the way society is structured, that is the silly way they do things (no appointment times for example/driving etc). But for me, who has been given 2 rai of land to live on, cars/motorbikes, and the chance to design a home that costs my wife 3,000 baht a month - little building costs, low interest loan (and the government pay the rest), then I believe I can live with the shittier parts than trying to buy the same thing in Australia for 40 million baht. Also work is a breeze compared to back home. Again, my wife gets these rewards, as she studied and worked hard; level 6 government official at age 29 (10 levels in total). And your husband and children are also naturally entitled to the benefits. 

I think if you are going to move to a country that isn't as developed as your own you need to cross your t's and dot your i's. Otherwise you're just setting yourself up for a life of misery. Unless you have a crap load of money (I have none), then you either need to marry into a supportive family or, yes, take her back to Australia (where other issues will arise that didn't in Thai, like affording a home). 

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

 

Will you want it to run your aircon?

 

Yes, we have a small genset, but you're probably best starting a new thread, actually, no "probably" about it, please start a new thread :)

Maybe ill just go and ask the shop if the forum, which I assume people use to help each other out, is as pedantic as that lol. 

Does anyone use generators? And if so can they recommend any good ones? I have no knowledge of what companies make good generators but am looking at getting one in case of blackouts. 

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

If you say so Willie.

 

But you know nothing about our home, our lifestyle or anything else.

 

Our standing load 24/7/365 is about 800W which equates to about 2,300 Baht per month before we fire up the A/C or irrigation pumps.

 

The biggest saving you can make with an aircon, is to turn it off. So our consumption (for the aircon only) is less at 28-30 where we are comfortable, than it would be at 24-26 where we would be cold.

That is true. Well, not entirely true, you did just describe your home lol. 

54 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

We too live in a house, only run one 12,000 BTU aircon at night set to 28-30C, low energy lighting, fridge, freezer, telly.

 

Our bill is 4,500 - 5,000 per month, government rates

 

EDIT

Did I forget to mention the 5HP of irrigation pumps and 1HP pool pump? Oh and the 3 PCs?

 

The problem is that there are so many variables and so many lifestyles it's almost impossible to compare two usage patterns

That seems a ridiculous amount...I don't see the point of having an air con if you're setting it to 28-30 so I set it to 25. Although i put it on a 3 hour timer with the fan running also just to get me to sleep. Day time is another matter obviously. I was under the impression between 24-26 degrees saves you in terms of the electricity bill anyway. Fairly sure that is what the government recommend in terms of savings. Ours is a new house so lighting is all LED. Other than outside which are flood lights. Fridge, washing machine, two TVs one pretty good rating, the other not. Pumps, well I only turn on the dam pump to water the garden and the house pump is automatic obviously. The supply water pump ill turn on once every 3-4 months if the water stops coming for whatever reason. Run 2 computers and a 8 camera CCTV system. And an industrial fan (with ice) outside for the dog lol. 
 

3 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

i just have to ask,

this is a forum, why do you  feel the need to post abut ur surgery here?  If u have friends here.  pm them...
in HS  we called that being a "drama queen".

It appears many people who move here have no outside friends so the forum becomes their life. Just get yourself a dog if you're living here for the lifespan of the dog's life and cant make friends. My question is more what surgery for a broken arm would cost 200,000 baht. Would be cheaper flying home and having it done, or at lease having a second opinion to see if it necessary. 

Live in a house instead of a condo/apartment. I have a 12,000, 18,000 and 32,000 BTU along with a big fridge, TV, 24 hour pumps, 24 hour lighting etc, and the electricity bill ranges from 900 - 1400 baht. However, When i used to live in an apartment, just a 12,000 air con without any other appliances was 1,500 baht. 

Basically the way the law is set out is that the Mayor of Tessaban has to approve the official warning to the people who are burning. So the environmental health officer cant do too much about it without his or her approval (no matter how passionate they are about it). If they continue to burn then they will receive a fine of either 500 or 5000 baht (cant remember which one) per day after that warning is given. However, the problem is this. What Mayor will go out and do this when he is relying on those very people he is about to approve a massive fine to vote for him. It is a law with many loopholes in it. 

The current discussion is to ban all bins in households. So the proposed idea is to take away the bin per every 10 houses or whatever it is, replace it with one hazards bin in the village for hazardous material, have pvc piping recycle type bins for plastic bottles etc. And then put your other rubbish in a garbage bag and leave it out the front of the house to be collected. This relies on people sorting through their rubbish (which I believe people will just end up burning). It also relies on the fact that dogs will not rip open the garbage bags (other countries with this system also have laws relating to dogs being fenced in). So all in all the environmental agenda at the moment is a focus on rubbish, not burning it seems. 

We also must remember that it is who you are marrying as to whether Sin Sord will be a major factor. The woman who lives across the road from me has been married 4 times now so her Sin Sord was only 40,000 baht the last time. If you're marrying girls from bars then the Sin Sord will be nothing to little also. However, if you're marrying middle to upper class, highly educated, successful career, never been married/doesn't have children...then don't be surprised if the Sin Sord is at a minimum of a million baht. However, like previously said, many families accept that it is not a part of our culture so do not request it. Whereas some people I have met have expected their 'farang' husband to pay for everything since the wife was a child (education, health etc). All depends on how reasonable and money hungry the family is I guess.

On 3/2/2017 at 10:20 AM, F4UCorsair said:

 

May I use another example?

 

Japanese soldiers executed hundreds, if not thousands, of Australians during the Pacific War, in Asia and New Guinea.  I mean executed, as opposed to killed in battle, and they cannibalized some of those they executed!!

 

They were subsequently trounced by the US, an ally of whom was Australia.  Trouncings don't get any bigger, incidentally.

 

Japan is a huge trading partner of Australia, and many Japanese live and work here, as I did in Japan.  Japanese are racist, none moreso,  but they don't kill people because they they were given a pasting years ago, or are of a different race or religion, something demanded of muslims in their holy book.   If that clause/verse is not considered relevant by 'moderate muslims', why aren't they prevailing on the so called minority to adapt to a more civilized way of life.  After all, with ONLY 4 successful attacks in Australia, the majority of almost 500,000 'moderate muslims' could have forced their will on half a dozen who thought they may create mayhem.

 

We're talking about the here and now.   Don't be an apologist for something that is clearly happening.   If some idiot is wearing an IS scarf, screaming 'allahu akbar' as he shoots dead an innocent person, are you trying to tell me that is not a religion inspired attack??  The 'lone wolf' defence is not relevant nor valid.

 

If you die at an amusement park, it is not the doing of an islamic waterslide that blows you up, stabs or shoots you!!!

 

IS will cease to exist in a few months now that Trump has given his generals authority to go anywhere, and do anything, to kill them off.  I have the popcorn out, and ready for the show.

 

This is off topic, so let's steer it back.

What I am saying is look at the evidence/research, the only research of it's kind for that matter that investigated every single attack (interviewed witness', police investigations etc) to find the motives behind terrorism. Religion is not at all a major factor. It is a minor factor, yes, but socio, political factors are the major factors. Look at Thailand deep South for example, Muslims and Buddhists co-existed peacefully, and then what happened? Military intervention. I have been to Yala in the deep South, I have spoken to Thai government officials, I have spoken to Muslim government officials (work for Thai government obviously)...military intervention is the overwhelming reason behind the violence. 

How did IS come about? The destabalisation of a country due to what? Military intervention. I can also give you a hypothetical situation. If you live in Australia and a country decided to come in, rape and beat your wife and kids, blow up your home, blow up your community, leave you with no family, no work, no vital supples such as water or food. In many instances you need to put your family members bodies into freezers as there is no way of disposing them...and that is if you magically still have a power supply to run the freezer. I think you most likely would want some revenge. That is what the research says, 95% of motives are due to military intervention. Half of these attackers also do not identify themselves to a religion anyway.

There is a concept called 'the accidental terrorist'. I think his name was David Kilcullen who came up with it. He was a lieutenant in the Australian Army and now a scholar and counter insurgency expert. He is of the belief that many people turn to terrorism by accident. They don't like these nutter groups like IS or al-Qaeda as they don't represent Islam. However, when you have drones bombing your village on a daily basis, what do you have left to turn to? You can stay neutral and die. You can turn to the West, and then they kill your families the very same day. Or you can turn to the charismatic group that gives you an alternative, an alternative you don't like, but in that situation it is the only alternative. These people are not using religion as a motive, the circumstance has only purely come about due to a military intervention.

People have a choice to form their opinions from Today Tonight style journalism, or academics who have actually served or researched the issues lol.

Religion is merely a tool used by leaders to advertise (not as a motive to attack). Something that brings people together. There are some instances where religion may be a motive. Something like if a Muslim or Christian or another religion for that matter bombs an abortion clinic, then yes, you could probably say that is purely religious motives, as those abortion clinics haven't done anything to create a revenge attack if you like. A military intervention and the bombing of something that your local minister tells you not to support are two completely different things. 

Also remember, terrorism is a last resort thing, all peaceful means are explored first (even Osama bin Laden) tried peaceful means first (written letters requesting withdraws of military intervention).

47 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

Flipper2222222 posted - opening post, unable to quote

 

"In Australia this week SBS TV is having a focus of racism. This has made me think of this question.

 

What are the attitudes of the average Buddhist person in Thailand towards the Muslim population in Thailand?"

 

 

If it's SBS airing it Flipper, you can bet your life on it being lightweight, non controversial, politically correct, and so like what the wishy washy, left wing  ABC would show......not worth watching.

 

IF, in the unlikely event, they take a position it will be sympathetic to islam, as victimized, marginalized, criticized, etc.

 

As a little background info, and off actual topic but I think relevant, there are 33 people incarcerated in Australia for terrorism offences, 22 Lebanese migrants, or descendants thereof, and the other 11 are muslims from elsewhere.

 

There are currently no others from any ethnic origin in the slammer for terrorism related offences.

 

Is it any wonder that there is deep apprehension and distrust of muslims in this country, as I imagine many Thais would feel.

 

Another was arrested in Young, NSW, a couple of days back on three terrorism charges, assisting IS to develop sophisticated weapons (rockets), and making trips to visit the brothers in the middle east, two of which carry life terms.

 

I think I have the numbers right (heard it on TV last week)......so far 4 terrorist attacks in Australia, and 12 (yes 12!!) well developed plans/imminent attacks thwarted.

 

Distrust would be a normal response from where I stand.

Considering Australia (speaking as an Australian) not only supported, but actively participated in a war (that most deem illegal (zero relation to 9/11 at all) and the participants have continuous investigations relevant to war crimes)...an unnecessary war that resulted in over one million innocent deaths (most estimates) due to mass destabilisation of a region and a war that has created groups like IS due to that destabalisation that go around terrorising innocent people. I would say those numbers are pretty amazing to be as small as they are. We pissed off the Muslim world (killing their family, friends, historical artifacts and homelands), and we are discussing 4 attacks - and tell me the motives of those attacks (can you?) Were they religious or political? Didn't Bush say God told him to invade the Middle East? Aren't neo-conservative policies drenched in radical interpretations from Christianity? But we have a mistrust about 4 attacks? lol. I think it is evident in those stupid memes, things like you have more chance from dying going down a slide at a park than from a terrorist attack.

And that distrust is not at all proportional to the distrust the 'other side' (if i can use that term, just for you lol) would be feeling. Remember Pape's Research of every single suicide terrorist attack in the world for 23 years - 95% was nothing to do with religion but due to military occupation (half of the attackers were secular, i.e non religious). 

But I understand the concern, polls taken around the time Pauline Hanson goes running around linking all Muslims to terrorists show that half the country are fearful of an attack. When experts and research say the chances of an attack are 'extremely low'. Just goes to show what to look at before forming an opinion, bullshit current affairs or the papers/comments the experts make from actual research. 

5 minutes ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Wildewillie89

Lets get one thig straight, you have obviously read, but misunderstood my post.

I am not a religious nutter. In fact my mother was jewish, but i do not relate to any of the testaments.If you believe in God, then you are more of a nutter than i am.The 'we' and 'us'was used as a collective term for people that attend their church and sing hymns and praise the lord, i do none of there things, as i believe that any religion is blind faith and is nothing but money making institutions.Disregarding the rest of the drivel you have posted, i will reiterate.Islam is meant to be a religion of tolerance.IS is not.These are the Aholes i was referring to.And i still say that they deserve to be wiped off the face of the earth, not just for us, but for our children and our children's children.Believe what you like, oh,font of all knowledge, just dont try to convince me that The muslims that support IS deserve to be on this earth.

Oh by the way....The next meeting of the Salvation Army,is at the William Boothe hoyel soi 6. , And the dry cleaners called and said your uniform will be ready on friday.

Now, don't be bothering me again, as i have some paint to watch drying.

 

Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?

.

..

Probably should have used the term 'IS' instead of 'Muslims' in your post then...Would be like saying 'Christians' when referring to the 'KKK'. Hey, maybe the 'KKK' will be at the Salvation Army meeting (thanks for the info by the way). 

1 hour ago, oby said:

Duh,

"Small percentage"

 

Muslims àre murdering from Canada to the philipines,

US thru all the 'stans, chechnya to nigeria, Australia to timbuktu,

Madrid to london, France to Sudan and you know there are many more countries and the wholesale slaughter  and genocide has been continuing since mo' declared kill the kaffir where he sleeps, usurp his wealth and wife, since 628.

Give me a break, a few bad Muslims 555

Perhaps it is you who are blind, and condoning the slaughter have the blood on your conscience .

Of course, is my opinion

Can you imagine a Christian shouting Jesus is the greatest in the many Muslim lands.  Instant death, crucifixion, stoning, beating to death, hanging or the fave sawing off the head with a dull blade.

 

.

Lol...what? Australia? There is a lot more Christian anti abortion clinic bombings going on in the world than Muslims killing in Australia. Lets look at something as simple as suicide bombings for example. Didn't Pape (funded by Secretary of State and U.S Navy), the only Professor/investigative research to ever look at every single suicide attack in all countries (between 1980-2003) and investigate each case's motives with 3 confirmed sources find out that half of them are actually secular (no religion) and 95% of them have no religious motives at all, merely payback against a military intervention of their homes? 

1 hour ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Did i read that right? A op said that Muslims "do believe in Christ???"

They dont! He is mentioned in the Koran as a teacher and a good man, but they do not believe in him as the son of Christ,  as all good Christians do.They believe in God, as we do, but in their belief, the world should still be in the world of God, 2000 years ago.And the call him Allah. their belief's are nothing like ours, Their's is a belief, in cruelty,death,subjugation,Owning women, sex with children,death of homosexuals,They follow the commandments to the extreme, and their extreme is Sharia Law.These are the scum of the Earth and need to be eradicated. The world is free religion,  not forced religion and the belief that all non believers should be killed.If Abraham had sacrificed Ishmael to God, when he had the chance, all this would never had happened,and the middle east would not have had the wars it has had.

Firstly, they believe in God as 'I do', not 'we'. Also 'mine', not 'ours'..don't make a generalisation that everyone on here is Christian. I thought that Christians follow the New Testament these days...you know love each other no matter of your beliefs, treat everyone how you want to be treated bla bla. Judging by this comment you must follow the Old Testament...which says a lot of the same things that you just mentioned ironically. Funny how things work out in the world. I have been to a supposed Muslim Insurgency city (Yala), and as an Atheist I was welcomed into the Mosque, I was welcomed into the community. Cant say the same about some of the Christian places I have attended. So let's stop the emotive crap and talk a bit more naturally - rather than how your radicalised minister taught you to speak lol. There is nutters in all religions (you being one of them) that take things to the extreme. A lot of people believe when Israel returns, Christ will return for example. Look at the blood shed that has caused. 

16 hours ago, Goanna said:

The thai buddhists in the south can't be happy. How can you be, when your friends and family are randomly murdered by the followers of this evil cult. It appears that mainly the people who try to help them are killed. Nurses, teachers, police etc. Myanmar buddhist know how to deal with them.

I am an atheist so I naturally disrespect all religions, but...isn't it the other way around? The Muslims down South (make up something like over 90% of the population), were living peacefully with the Buddhists. Then thousands of troops came knocking on their doors, beating them, killing them, taking their way of life away from them. Terrorism is a very last resort, all other peaceful means are explored before turning to violence. Basic research will tell you that. The government didn't listen to their legitimate concerns so they turned to violence. That was my impression when I travelled down to Yala anyway. 

Generally, yes, Buddhists have a disliking to Muslims...usually it is an uneducated disliking though. My wife was a government official in Yala. The first few bombs she witnessed she had a disliking also, but then she looked deeper into the issue, read a few university papers, and then went out to find out what was really going on. She ended up with more Muslim friends in the South than Buddhist friends as they were generally nicer people. Went out to public areas on a daily/nightly basis and felt completely safe with them. I found the same when I traveled there. The mosque gladly welcomed me to explore its architecture, so did Muslim restaurants in the 'red zone'. 

Clearly you dont know the definition of 'cult', but we will bypass that.  Also research Robert Pape's paper on terrorism, I think you will find religion isn't as much of a factor as you think. This is research funded by the U.S Secretary of State into the motives of terrorism. Every terrorist act was investigated and witness' questioned as what were the motives behind the events. Generally, it is things liked armed forces coming into your community and giving you a hiding on a daily basis, so you fight back. Not some skewered interpretation that less than 1% of people have of their holy text. If that was the case then there would probably be more Christian terrorists than Muslims lol. 

As for the Myanmar comment, that just shows your ignorance. 

Taser isn't a bad idea as it doesn't hurt anyone...although is it illegal? A stick should be more than sufficient, just bang it on the ground near the dog (no reason to hit the dog). I have been bitten by two different dogs, just walking my puppy. The dogs mostly ignore the puppy as it is quite a bit larger but one ran in for the sneaky bite of my leg when both of our backs are turned. The other one was a fight i stopped with my dog. You will always have at least 5 or 6 dogs show some sort of aggression on a leashed walk, some do attempt to bite my dog but usually it ends after the one bite and we continue along.  A shocking mix of non-desexed, non-trained, hungry, abused dogs in pain and that's the result...a war zone.

In terms of a legal stand point, I have always been of the opinion and have been told that if the dog bites you then the dog is at fault. I know the dog that bit me was unfortunately sent somewhere else due to fear of me prosecuting the owner. My uncle is the police and boss and father the mayor and they went and had a chat to the owner. The dog had previously bitten someone else and was warned by police to not be let out of the yard. As much as the culture dictates other things, usually from my experiences, laws have been pretty normal/common sense. Although, it terms of welfare, there seems to be a few ways to avoid a physical confrontation so it is not needed. 

It does seem the conversation is going in circles...but people don't need excuses. The Thai government does not provide the schooling of the language to people who move here (like other countries do). So there is no expectation from anyone. So I don't see the need for some Western guy to put an expectation on another Western guy to learn a level of Thai which is insignificant in the schemes of the whole place, just because you think you're some Steven Hawking for learning a level of Thai you could probably teach a parrot. 

American Temperament Test Society I cant get into...maybe the Thai Ridgeback got a bad score (I dont know because I cant access it lol).

I look at it this way...from what I have seen living here, Thai can be incredibly complex (maybe that is why you get many people say all Thai do is gossip or talk about food-as many themselves find the language difficult). The same people who claim to speak Thai, also advise against learning due to the nature of conversations. Even Thai people I have worked with who have translated meetings for me have said the one hour of content was really 5 minutes said in 12 different ways (and that I am lucky i don't speak Thai). Having a wife that works as an official I hear many different scores from many different people who sat the test to become an official. It is not at all uncommon to hear that a Bachelor or Masters educated Thai person only score 25% on the Thai language component of the test. As mentioned earlier i worked with two PhD students who didn't pass the Thai aspect, but passed the Math, Science and English without difficulties.

If the need for a sophisticated conversation extends to learning Thai that many people who have at least a Bachelor degree fails then I will give it a miss. I will just find, and it is not as hard as people claim, a Thai person who speaks English. If you're happy with a very low level of Thai that gets you through the day with incredibly boring conversations, then that is great, each to their own. But don't claim you can speak Thai or quantify how much Thai you can speak (as how can you quantify something if you don't know its completion). Generally speaking, the conversations people have in Thai you can have in English also, as they are in the most basic form that even many Thai are capable of having. They may even have a better chance of understanding the English than our incredibly poor accents (as it's a tone language). The claim you will end up lonely not learning Thai is utter rubbish. That is implying that no one in Thai can speak even a tiny bit of English. You get what you ask for, you ask for people who speak English, then you will find them and you will surround yourself with them. And those people will appreciate it. 

It is fantastic that many people do choose to learn a little bit of Thai also. I congratulate them. But there is no need to disrespect or name call those who do not learn it as you feel better than them. It is a language, not the cure for cancer lol. Many people who do learn a basic form of Thai seem to think they deserve a Noble Peace Prize it seems. Not to mention the thousands of Thai who go to *study* (work) in Western countries who refuse to go to school or hang out with Western people due to making no effort to learn the language (if you were part of the Thai community back home you will understand this). Somehow Westerners here are arrogant for at least still attempting to communicate in any language, but Thai back in our countries are perfectly okay for not even making any attempt. Think people just need to pull their heads out of their <deleted> and just accept many people have different capabilities and needs that may be quite different from your own. Rant over.

31 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

You're saying that "all the educated Thais (you) know speak pretty useful English and have studied abroad".....????  That's simply not true.  A very small percentage of educated Thais have studied abroad.  Maybe 1%.  I know a few and strangely, none of them have a farang spouse.  As for "useful English," perhaps your standard is much lower than mine. 

 

We're going around in circles.  Learn Thai or don't learn Thai, I really don't care.  But one thing I can say for certain--pretty much all Thai females born and raised in Thailand prefer to speak Thai in social situations, regardless of their level of English.

That really depends...most educated Thai actually prefer to speak to Westerners on certain topics. Why? Because Thai media is censored so they cannot have the same discussion with locals. The same goes with different ideas on how to do things and differing research. Again, it goes back the their level of education. 

8 hours ago, Berkshire said:

The level of education has zero to do with strong English skills.  You are aware that Thai universities teach in the Thai language, correct?  So a Thai female with a PhD may speak less English than an uneducated bargirl.  Unless they majored in English, attend an international school, or got their post-grad degree overseas, most educated Thai females are not going to be real proficient in English.  And frankly, they don't need to be, living in Thailand.

There is differences in English, those who are educated are proficient in written English, those who are not and have experience talking to 20 different guys each night are proficient in English conversation. Those who are educated can speak the English they are proficient in writing, just lack confidence as they haven't 20 guys a night to speak to. I am well aware of having a PhD and not being able to speak English due to confidence, however, to even pass their application to receive a PhD they have to one, present the reasoning as to why they want to be a PhD student in English (at a Thai university), and two, to get into any sort of credible university you must pass the English test. Do badly on the English component part of the Bachelor entrance exam and you go to a poor university. And as we all know it is really only the top 4 or 5 universities in Thailand that can actually be considered as half decent academic institutions. The rest will give you a Masters for free just so they can use your name as advertisement (as happened with someone i know recently). 

If they are highly educated, they do need English....I've had my appendix out and a few dog bites in the last few months, and vaccinations for my baby (every doctor i have seen under 35 (which is 6 or 7 doctors can speak English just fine). I live in a city with barely any Westerners. When Thai officials have conferences in Malaysia or other neighbouring countries, they send over officials who speak, wait for it, English! Also, depending on your own interests to have a decent conversation with someone there needs to be some level of education. Educated people are always willing to try and improve and get those opportunities. I am sure many bar girls conversations are limited due to lack of opportunity/education, if they had the opportunity they wouldn't be a bar girl to begin with.

The university entrance score for English is like 26%....which kind of demonstrates where the educated people are. At the top universities. Unless, of course, they spend their weekends drinking with farang, but that is not my personal preference for the type of girl i would meet lol. Of course, you can find bar girls and taxi drivers who speak perfect English, but is that really the relationship you want....it may be, who am i or anyone else to judge. But in saying that you can also find many educated, government, private company girls who speak just as good from their education and commitment to learning (rather than meeting 1000s of men). And that is where interesting conversations will come from my previous experience when i was meeting a lot of people. 

In saying all that it is a sad situation. I would say only 5% of Thai families recognise the importance of English in getting either a government job or a good university to get a good private job and get their kids to study it early, whilst their brains are young and easier to wire up. I have worked with someone who majored in English and speaks zero English lol. It isn't the education necessarily in Thailand, unfortunately, it is where the education occured that makes the difference...hence the 'level of education;. 

7 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

i am so glad you said this; my sentiments exactly- one of my pet peeves in my 7 1/2 years here is others who have lived here longer than i not saying much more than hello, thank you, and 1 Chang or 1 Sing (btw, it's Sing, NOT Singha, ala it's not Suvharnabhumi, but pronounced Suvanabhum) -the refusal to even attempt to learn the language when one settles in a foreign country is nothing short of an arrogant colonial attitude (even were i to live in Sweden, for intance, even though English is required 2nd language, i would immediately start learning Swedish any which way i could)- my Thai neighbors and friends say i speak quite well (i myself say that i understand most of what's said, and maybe speak about 20-30%; my friends laughingly correct that to "hasip percent"; i can also read and write it, however not nearly well enough for my taste, good thing i have 2 Thai dictionaries by my side and friends more than willing to help me learn more)

i've heard ALL the lame excuses (many of them on TVF here and other threads) and each and every one is just BS rationalization of laziness, arrogance, and cultural imperialism- i myself am 60 years  old, and i find that my efforts are rewarded every day in  myriad different ways; and when i misspeak, whomever i am talking with corrects me with a smile...

re classifiers, they are generally not as important as the right initial consonant and vowel tone; even with improper tone, one will be understood because the other options would not make sense in context

i consider myself to be fortunate and blessed to have started a whole new life here in a place where i am now quite well-known and well-liked; of course the fact that i am an accomplished musician helps quite a bit in that...

 

ok, let the sh*tstorm begin   let's see what excuses THIS response dredges up

I think many people just know their limitations...I for one used to study Japanese and found i could converse and write about my weekend in Japanese quite easily (formal study). Chinese and now Thai are different matters as I find the tones hard (no formal study, just hanging out with people). Being a musician would probably benefit you with a tone language. Generally speaking, my family believe now that i can comprehend the topics of discussions but not the finer details. And as stated earlier, my tone when speaking I know myself isn't good at all. The same way that the majority of Thai dont believe many westerners tones aren't that crash hot, they are just polite. On a different note many people know that picking up a new language is just too far beyond what they are capable of. To call them arrogant i  think is arrogant in itself...especially when a simple brain scan can now tell you if you're likely to succeed at learning the language. Maybe you fail at running marathons as you havent got the physical make up for it and you know that you will fail as you have tried and tried before....are you arrogant for not trying if you move to a community where you need to run a lot? lol. 

The Journal of Neuroscience published a report that was in a news story:

Learning a second language is far easier for some adults than others because of innate differences in how the various parts of the brain "talk" to one another.

Scientists at McGill University in Canada found that if left anterior operculum and the left superior temporal gyrus communicate more with each other at rest, then language learning is easier.

"These findings have implications for predicting language learning success and failure," said study author Dr Xiaoqian Chai.