mark45y

I'm the OP on this thread, and it's time to comment on the replies. Thanks for some 'sage' advice from genuine posters, and I offer my sympathy to a few sad individuals who seem to have such a poor regard for Thais and Thailand that it may be in their interests to go home. I mean who would want to live in a country where they had such a low regard for their hosts ??

If you read my original post correctly, my intention was ask people's advice on how to handle an issue that was was irritating me. I have known my wife for three years, she has been to my home country three times. She managed to acccrue 20,000 baht on one visit, (no, not by selling herself) and to my surprise, when we got back to Thailand she spent the lot on a gold necklace for me. In the three years, she has never asked me for a penny. I give her a sensible amount every month, as she has no other income. She often buys food or something for my condo or for me when she goes out. In her small way, she constantly tries to contribute to our lives. I do trust her completely in the material sense. Many will say that is foolish, but I cannot lead a sad life of mistrust. Having said that, as with any significant other, I do keep my financial affairs safe and protected, as I would with a partner of any ethnicity. Many men have been taken to the cleaners by their English/Australia/American wives. You do not have to come to Thailand to get fleeced. People forget that. Ask Tiger Woods!.

One poster kindly provided me with the lyrics of a Kenny Rogers song, now bearing in mind my wife isn't an 18 year old doll, but an average woman in her mid 30's, here are some other lyrics.......... If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife, so from my personal point of view, get an ugly girl to marry you!!

Picking out the well meant advice from the nonsense, I think I will just choose to ignore the trivial lies, and accept the fact that they are not malicious, or with the intention of gaining something from me, but a combination of a reluctance to put herself in conflict or confrontation with me, and a cultural/peer influence. At the same time, I will keep my eyes open, as everyone should do in any relationship.

Oh, for the person who called me a "troll" After my name there are the following letters BSc Applied Biology, BSc Rural and Remote Health, MSc Rural Health. Troll ???

There you are then.

I think you are saying you have decided not to try to change the woman.

I think that is a wise decision for anyone in a relationship regardless of gender.

As a canuck: I say the Germans know more about beer than both of you.

Making German beer is certainly more difficult from a technical standpoint. They use different yeasts and are forbidden by law from using any sugar.

English beers are less temperature sensitive and adapt to being made in warmer climates better.

I am not an expert on Canadian beer but it seems to me there were many more available 40 years ago than today. I also never liked the state store concept for selling beer.

When I first got to SEA I used to have Canadian Dow Cream Porter shipped from Toronto to Bangkok. It cost a small fortune and I only did it a couple of times.

Well I am not interested in debating CDN versus USA beer : I used to like drinking 20 PBR's while golfing in the US way back when in the day. Needless to say i spent more time in the rough looking for a tree to relieve myself on that looking for my balls.

It is easier in Thailand there is always someone to look after your balls.

As a canuck: I say the Germans know more about beer than both of you.

Making German beer is certainly more difficult from a technical standpoint. They use different yeasts and are forbidden by law from using any sugar.

English beers are less temperature sensitive and adapt to being made in warmer climates better.

I am not an expert on Canadian beer but it seems to me there were many more available 40 years ago than today. I also never liked the state store concept for selling beer.

When I first got to SEA I used to have Canadian Dow Cream Porter shipped from Toronto to Bangkok. It cost a small fortune and I only did it a couple of times.

The American beer tradition was akin to the Brits

American beer.. 5555555555555555

totster :lol:

People just don't read. I said the American tradition. In 1860, nearly 200 breweries operated in Wisconsin, over 40 in Milwaukee alone. Virtually every town had a brewery and in some cases, towns formed around breweries. America had thousands of good local breweries until Prohibition. That changed things. Now America is coming back with micro breweries but still has a long way to go with acceptance among the public at large.

Oh I read it, it's just that whenever I see or hear the words 'American beer' in any context it makes me laugh.. that's all.

totster

I hate to wax poetic about it but America was such a great beer nation once upon a time. Large populations from England, Germany and Holland settled in different parts of the country and all established breweries. They brought their yeast with them and grew the hops and barley in the States. All the great traditions in brew making were represented in one country. Prohibition wiped out a culture. It was like a beer genocide. I still get tears in my eyes thinking about it.

The American beer tradition was akin to the Brits

American beer.. 5555555555555555

totster :lol:

People just don't read. I said the American tradition. In 1860, nearly 200 breweries operated in Wisconsin, over 40 in Milwaukee alone. Virtually every town had a brewery and in some cases, towns formed around breweries. America had thousands of good local breweries until Prohibition. That changed things. Now America is coming back with micro breweries but still has a long way to go with acceptance among the public at large.

I give her a sensible amount every month, as she has no other income.

What stops her from working?

My GF has a shop up North that sells gas and household items. It provides the income for her parents. She spends a week a month at the shop to re stock it and make sure things are going OK. I get a week alone every month. I like my week alone. 3 weeks faithful partner and one week Hugh Hefner works for me. I have to admit the only 100% faithful men I have encountered in Thailand are on Thai Visa. Perhaps Thai Visa is a faithful spouse magnet website. I am an equal opportunity kind of guy. Do I think the GF is getting a little on the side during her week up North? I would imagine she is. I have found that 30 to 40 year old women have quite high sex drives. I like variety she likes frequency. The week off from each other is a safety valve for both of us. I give her an allowance when she is with me for the three weeks and pay her bus fare up North.

Move discussion about food elitism to one of the dedicated food forums, please? I think it could be interesting, but it's way off topic.

I started a thread in the Pub forum because I thought the posters in the food forum would know something about food and beverages and it would be like preaching to the choir. I would invite Tropo the advocate of dumbing down our food and beverage knowledge and taste to join the discussion there.

Do Brits know more about beer than the rest of us?

I used to brew beer and teach courses on brewing, distilling and making wine. I also taught cooking courses and hired chefs for a large hotel chain.

My readings and speaking with people from all over the world has convinced me that British people know more about beer than the average bloke. They have a more sensitive palate and because they eat few spicy foods it remains sensitive to the subtleties of beer.

The variety of beers available to the average Brit is greater than most other countries and the pub culture is more ingrained in the lifestyle.

The American beer tradition was akin to the Brits with thousands of small breweries until the advent of Prohibition and the refrigerated rail road car. Both of those factors wiped out a large and varied English and German brewing community. Although America's micro brewing industry is growing the average Yank is still not in the same league as the average Brit when it comes to beer knowledge and sophistication.

Fast food like MacDonald's and fish and chip shops have and are contributing to the dumbing down of food and beverage knowledge and tastes. Large food and beverage chains are convincing people that french fries smothered in peppers and cheese sauce are the height of culinary excellence. Or that Taco Bell somehow represents Mexican cooking.

When one suggests that education can contribute to an understanding food and wine one is referred to as an elitist snob.

From another thread I said, “Bordeaux Wine Official Classification of 1855.

The wines were ranked in importance from first to fifth growths (crus). All of the red wines that made it on the list came from the Médoc region except for one: Château Haut-Brion from Graves. The white wines, then of much less importance than red wine, were limited to the sweet varieties of Sauternes and Barsac and were ranked only from first great growth to second growth.

Not much has changed since 1855. The great vineyards and wine they produce is about the same.

Do you understand or appreciate these wines from birth? Nope. It takes education and experience.

The appreciation of fine wines and great food is made possible by education and experience and exposure.

If you have a low class upbringing eating mostly starches and boiled meats that is what you will like.

If you grew up eating cayenne peppers mashed with spoiled freshwater crabs and shredded unripe fruit topped off with BBQ rat and Jello for dessert that is what you will like.

There is a major difference between bouillabaisse and steamed whole carp with some cockles thrown in.

Are you ready to spend 60,000 baht for a decent bottle of wine and 30,000 baht for dinner?

If you can't appreciate it, it would be a waste of money.

I used to buy wines for restaurants. To learn I spent years in school and at wine tastings. I belonged to a club where 8 of us would all chip in to buy one bottle of good wine so we each could have a small glass. It is the only way to learn. Education and hands on experience with a knowledgeable teacher.

You seem to think food is somehow different than other subjects that are taught. It is not. There are standards of excellence in both food and wine that are centuries old.

Don't confuse what you like with what is really excellent. They may or may not be the same thing.

A good wine is worth 150,000 baht. A table wine 600 baht. Do you really think there are not people who are competent to set the price? People blend whiskeys. People blend teas. These are people with both the education and experience to do so.

Food and wine are both a science and an art. To really appreciate them takes education and experience and money.

You drive a car, I presume. Does that car driving experience qualify you to drive a formula one machine? Do you think formula one drivers go to school? Do you think they train with experienced drivers? Do you think the mechanics and designers are any different than cooks and chefs? Do you think poor people know the thrill of driving a Ferrari? No, of course not. “

And Tropo responded, “I understand exactly where you are coming from. You believe good taste should arrive through education. I believe nature has taken care of good and bad taste and no education is required to decide what is good to eat.

The market for expensive food (and wine) is created through brainwashing people to believe in this fabled "elite taste" and they make their sales.”

France buys 10% of Libya's oil but all the transactions have stopped because the US froze the dollars that are used to buy and sell oil going in and out of Libya. Sarkozy does not strike me as a dummy so I wonder what he can be thinking. Perhaps his intelligence is better than the Brits and he knows something they don't.

France is going to send diplomats to Benghazi.

What a job!

OP- Sorry I jacked your thread. Your wife is lying to you? Well no shit!

I'd follow Mark's advice. Don't let on that you know and learn her "tell"

If you caught someones tell in a game of hold 'em, you wouldn't blurt it out. Same.

Call or fold. If she's really hot looking. I would call.

I feel bad about saying you are right on but that's a good example. Don't tell them about the tell.

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em

Know when to walk away and know when to run.

Cause every hands a winner and every hands a loser.

And the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep.

Count your money in your wallet before you go to sleep and again in the morning. And if you are with my ex girlfriend count the gold fillings in your teeth also.

Low class or uneducated people have low class or uneducated tastes.

I missed this gem. It's all about class and education.

People with no money are low class and have bad taste. People with money are high class and have good taste.

Now we have it figured out.

Bordeaux Wine Official Classification of 1855.

The wines were ranked in importance from first to fifth growths (crus). All of the red wines that made it on the list came from the Médoc region except for one: Château Haut-Brion from Graves. The white wines, then of much less importance than red wine, were limited to the sweet varieties of Sauternes and Barsac and were ranked only from first great growth to second growth.

Not much has changed since 1855. The great vineyards and wine they produce is about the same.

Do you understand or appreciate these wines from birth? Nope. It takes education and experience.

The appreciation of fine wines and great food is made possible by education and experience and exposure.

If you have a low class upbringing eating mostly starches and boiled meats that is what you will like.

If you grew up eating cayenne peppers mashed with spoiled freshwater crabs and shredded unripe fruit topped off with BBQ rat and Jello for dessert that is what you will like.

There is a major difference between bouillabaisse and steamed whole carp with some cockles thrown in.

Are you ready to spend 60,000 baht for a decent bottle of wine and 30,000 baht for dinner?

If you can't appreciate it, it would be a waste of money.

I used to buy wines for restaurants. To learn I spent years in school and at wine tastings. I belonged to a club where 8 of us would all chip in to buy one bottle of good wine so we each could have a small glass. It is the only way to learn. Education and hands on experience with a knowledgeable teacher.

You seem to think food is somehow different than other subjects that are taught. It is not. There are standards of excellence in both food and wine that are centuries old.

Don't confuse what you like with what is really excellent. They may or may not be the same thing.

A good wine is worth 150,000 baht. A table wine 600 baht. Do you really think there are not people who are competent to set the price? People blend whiskeys. People blend teas. These are people with both the education and experience to do so.

Food and wine are both a science and an art. To really appreciate them takes education and experience and money.

You drive a car, I presume. Does that car driving experience qualify you to drive a formula one machine? Do you think formula one drivers go to school? Do you think they train with experienced drivers? Do you think the mechanics and designers are any different than cooks and chefs? Do you think poor people know the thrill of driving a Ferrari? No, of course not.

Will the influx of Russians bring about a culinary or cultural Renaissance to Pattaya? I doubt it. They will fit right in with the rest of the rather lower economic classes that are there now. Seems like a good match to me.

Sorry about having to (frere)HiJack this topic again, but.....ehhrmm, ok, so, are you telling us that if something gets popular then automatically it's something without quality or value? i understand we are in Thailand now, but c'mon..... you don't have to adopt local cliches to show us the superiority of a classy and educated person, all it's needed is an Elite Card translated in french, being rational it's so lo-so nowadays isn't?

Starting your day with a mix of Chianti, beer, Tequila and Vodka instead of a cappuccino at this stage can only help you with your cause

Russian food can be good. It is a nice addition to the already international menu in Pattaya. But great food? No. Great Russian wines? No.

Great food will never be popular because it will always be too expensive for the average consumer.

It takes time and money to go to school or be an apprentice to a great chef.

There is a grain of truth in what you say, but it is not that popularity makes a food mediocre. It is that great food can never be produced in the quantity to make it available to the masses.

Of all of the beef produced in the world less than 1% is dry aged prime beef. Somchai or Ivan is never going to taste the best. The Shah of Iran used to fly pizza's from one restaurant in Chicago on his personal jet back to Iran. Was that the best pizza in the world? I don't know, the Shah and I liked it the best. Is Russian food going to put Pattaya on the international diners must eat list? No.

When I go to Pattaya what kind of food do I eat? Russian? No. I eat French food in Pattaya because I am not there frequently and the French restaurants are good and reasonable. Given a chance I would love to meet some Russian women in Pattaya of the non professional variety and take them out to eat. In that case I would be looking for a Russian restaurant.

Why do I think the Russification of Pattaya is a good thing? The Russian women.

...

I have to agree with Mark45y about the french cuisine, after all, you just have to open the menu of restaurants all over the world to find out: french pasta, french pizza, french spaghetti, french lasagne, french cappuccino (should i go on with it?), anyway an article some time ago claimed the lasagna was brit and i believe there is a member here which is sure the pizza is american, so maybe not all french then, sorry for the OT, salut

Talk about missing the point......

Popular is not the same as good or great.

There are more comic books sold than hard copies of great literature.

Russian or Italian food or MacDonald's resembles a comic book.

Low class or uneducated people have low class or uneducated tastes.

Sometimes cultural traditions replace class and education.

British people have an advanced, educated palate when it comes to beer. The French have an advanced, educated palate when it comes to food.

One can rant all day long about the greatness of Tequila or Vodka but the difference between great and mediocre are slight. The same can not be said about wine. Throw a little ox blood in the Chianti and no one notices. Anyone who actually drinks cappuccino deserves anything they get anyway.

A relationship is in many ways like a war. Some days a wife can be an ally and others an enemy depending on mood, tides, phases of the moon and the rainy season.

I would suggest remembering the capture of an Enigma decoding machine by the Brits in WW II or the breaking of the Japanese Naval code by the US.

Neither of these discoveries would have been of any value if the other side knew about them.

The Brits didn't send a telegram to the Germans informing them how stupid they were to let someone steal a coding machine.

The upper hand always goes to the one with more information. Shut up and watch and listen and remember. If they lie they also cheat and if they cheat they also steal. If you have a significant other who does none of these things, quick take your pulse, because you are probably dead and in heaven.

For a number of years I was responsible for hiring executive chef's at Hilton Hotels. Our guests were an international crowd from all over the world.

We hired both education and experience. Culinary schools the world over teach French cooking. Culinary schools in NY teach French cooking. Culinary schools in Switzerland teach French cooking. Kitchens are organized and named in the French style of cooking. Executive chef, Sous chef, Chefs de Parti, Saucier: fish, sautéed dishes, stews, hot hors d'ouevers, hot entrees and sauces. Commands after the sous chef.

Rotissieur: Prepares items roasted in the oven and on the spit. Works under the Saucier.

Friturier: fry cook - responsible for deep fried foods. Works under the Saucier.

Grillardin: responsible for grilled foods. Works under the Saucier.

Garde Manger: Processes raw meat, cold dishes, forcemeat, pies, galantines and cold hors d'ouevres. Next in line after the saucier for command.

Charcutier, and Butcher: work under the Garde Manger

Entremetre: Vegetable cook, responsible for soups (sometimes saucier does this), vegetables, pasta, and foods made of flour, eggs and cheese..

Potager: soup cook, originally was under the supervision of the Entremetier

Patissier: Pastry chef: all basic desserts, hot desserts, cold desserts, frozen desserts and hot and cold pastries.

Boulanger and Glacier: work under the Patissier

Other cooking stations are Tournant (swing cook), de Garde (duty chef), de Nuit (night chef), Banquet chef, etc.

Commis: assistants to the chefs de partie. Usually journeyman cooks.

Apprentices: training in each of the parties in turn to learn the entire kitchen.

The textbooks are in French. Service standards are French. The world of cooking is French first.

There is no debate about fine food. It is French first, Chinese second. There is no American, British, Thai, Australian or Russian fine dining. It is silly to suggest there is. Any classically trained chef can walk into a Thai kitchen and do a better job than Somchai and produce better food with about 30 minutes of watching the procedure. All the basic skills are French. Somchai or Ivan would be lost trying to perform the basic tasks of a Patissier,Boulanger and Glacier. It is like comparing a professional triathlete to a 6 year old volleyball player. Four years, 12 hours a day of textbook learning and hands on training just scratches the surface of French cooking for the talented student. My God it takes three years to learn how to bake bread if you can even find a master baker anymore!

Russian cooking and service is very basic and can be completely covered in a few months of training, Italian a bit more complicated and a few more days of reading.

Good or bad taste is of course up to the individual.

A lot of Americans actually like Budweiser beer! But to say Bud is a great beer should be a public hanging offense. The Brits make great beer. The Scots, great whiskey, but you have to give the title of great food to the French.

Information is only valuable if you are the only one who has it. You know she is not truthful. That is a valuable piece of information. If she knows you know she is not truthful that is a worthless piece of information. I realize this is a deep thought but think about it for a while.

The men who think their significant others are truthful have less information than you do. Consider yourself lucky and keep it to yourself.

Total drug-related arrests in Malaysia declined from 32,808 in 2005 to 14,489 in 2007, a 55.8% decline. The declining trend continued in 2008 with a further decrease of 14.7% to 12,354 arrests.

I suppose Malaysia did this by increasing quality education!

From what I have read most Aussies posting on Thai Visa are very intelligent men. I also think that most of the Aussie men posters here have Thai wives or significant others. So I guess it stands to reason that when Aussies have a choice they pick Thai women for management positions. Unless there are many Aussie men here who think they as opposed to their wives manage the marriage.

I guess the number will be about the same. If they are Thai citizens and Austrralian citizens, then they will be the same people, whichever order you count them in.

The difference is that Australia is a nation built by immigrants at the expense of the indigenous culture, while Thailand seeks to retain its culture by discouraging immigration.

SC

I think you accidentally made my point. Thais can become Australian citizens much easier than Australians can become Thai citizens. And yes, the Thais don't want us here-longer than 30 days

The US, Canada, UK, Australia do a far better job of integrating naturalized citizens. Unless your face is asian, you'll never be truly accepted in Thailand.

You must be doing something wrong Lancelot. I go to immigration once a year for 20 minutes and they tell me they want me here for another year. They smile and say thank you, see you next year.

Easy for me, In thailand I can go months without seeing or hearing a fat arsed loud mouthed white woman, screw your political correctness its just a plain simple truth for me at least. Thailand can double,triple in price, but for me it is paradise and i am thankful I can be here

Nice man, way to be a plick. On a similar train of thought, one of the things I absolutely hate about Thailand is the vast number of fat arsed loud mouthed white men I encounter and have to put up with, far more than back in my home country. It's almost enough to make me quit my entire career and escape this retched place.

The two posts above are identical except for gender. From an ethical non sexist point of view you are both bigots. Are you related?

My favorite age was 26. I dated 26 year old women, rode a motorcycle and didn't work much. I didn't have much but I wanted for nothing.

In Thailand I have found the fountain of youth.

I turned back the clock as long as I avoid mirrors I have 26 year old women on demand, a motorcycle, don't work much and want for nothing.

What do you want to eat? Seafood and rice. Do you want to go to your favorite restaurant where you get diarrhea all the time or my favorite restaurant where you never get diarrhea?

No don't want you to buy the underwear here today. Tomorrow we go to the store with American underwear but we eat at MacDonald's OK?

The shirt is too expensive. Tomorrow we go to the second hand market and you can buy 20 shirts for the same price as the one shirt here today, OK?

I am not going to your friends house because there is a ghost there!

I had a dream last night that your cousin tried to kill you.

Do you know your sister flirts with me when you are not looking?

That expensive Swiss chocolate gives women pimples. Here have some more chocolate.

My pension has no death benefit. I die and you get no more money.

So, US troops have AK-47 but Thai Army don't have it? That's what the expert said about killed Japanese reporter. How strange.

No, the AK47s were meant for the ANA.

My point was in the other way but speaking about US Army, they have some units who are trained to use AK47 as on many battlefields where US is engaged, is in use. So as it's needed for training, it is in their arsenal.

I was a soldier in the US Army and I never trained with an AK-47. Never saw one till I got into combat. Do you think I would have grabbed an AK instead of my M-16? Where would I get the ammo? Do you really think the US keeps AK's in stock? I have never met a US soldier that was trained with an AK-47. Maybe there are some but I never met one. Do I know how to fire an AK-47? Sure but I learned that overseas not in training in the States.

It takes about a minute to master an AK.

You're both on a strange side-track.

I suppose stories such as this: http://www.thaivisa....exual-services/ Or complete horror stories such as this: http://www.thaivisa....ld-prostitutes/

Could have happened anywhere in Thailand, right?

Yes of course. And they do. The only difference is that because Pattaya is a tourist/expat resort town, you get relatively more cases involving foreigners. In addition, this makes it more likely to make an English language publication.

My point is that 95% of prostitution in Thailand does not involve foreign people. Be it underage or of age the percent is still the same. Pattaya is raided on a regular basis by at least three police agencies from outside of Pattaya and they don't tip off anyone. They raid them for drugs and underage employees. Raids on bars outside of tourist areas are rare.

No they're not. They happen anywhere in Thailand. Police outside Pattaya need tea money too, or do you think this is only a special skill that Pattaya police posess.. And you know what, it's also THEIR JOB to check for underage employees. Rather than point fingers at all kinds of places that you never visit and claim inequal justice, why not actually focus on the issue of underage workers and why this still persists.

No Winnie you are wrong, at least in my experience. I live in town Y, it is between town X and Z. There are a total of 200,000 people living in all three towns. There are at least 100 businesses in the three towns that cater to men only, play music, you know, so on and so on. During the past 5 years the cops raided one place in town X and arrested 18 people and raided one place in town X and arrested 2 people.

I really didn't know the issue was underage workers and why this still persists. But if that is the issue I can only state that in my experience when first arriving in SEA 40 years ago it was also a problem in Taiwan and Singapore. Now I think it is not so much of a problem in Taiwan or Singapore.

I think what happened in Taiwan and Singapore is the education level was raised and more high paying jobs are offered now than were offered 40 years ago. I don't think this is rocket science. I thought everyone knew that when you have a population that is educated you will find jobs for that population. Seems pretty basic to me. Hope I answered your question.

After you have been in Thailand for a while you will realize that almost no one is from Pattaya. Most bar employees come from somewhere else. They start working in smaller Thai towns at Thai bars and eventually perhaps 5% end up going to work in Pattaya. I don't think you have lost the plot. I don't see that you had it to begin with. The odd sense of reality you mention is 5% Pattaya and 95% other places in Thailand. At least the bars in Pattaya get raided on a regular basis to check for under age employees. If you are sitting in a go go and a light flashes and half the staff runs off stage and out the back door you know a raid is coming. This rarely happens anywhere else in Thailand.

I'm not quite following your logic here Marky. Are you saying that Pattaya is not as bad as other places in Thailand for underaged sex workers? Actually I'd use your above example against this line of thought. The fact is that this underage problem is so organized in Pattaya that they are almost always tipped off before a raid. Very often tipped off by the very same people carrying out the raid!! The raids are for show.

I suppose stories such as this:

Or complete horror stories such as this:

Could have happened anywhere in Thailand, right? I could give plenty more examples if I was bothered to look them up. But you get the picture.

My point is that 95% of prostitution in Thailand does not involve foreign people. Be it underage or of age the percent is still the same. Pattaya is raided on a regular basis by at least three police agencies from outside of Pattaya and they don't tip off anyone. They raid them for drugs and underage employees. Raids on bars outside of tourist areas are rare.

Underage prostitution is a problem in Thailand but 95% of the problem is outside of Pattaya.