scorecard

14 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Contact HMRC and get their guidance, they are not the ogre's often portrayed. Get it from the horses mouth on that aspect and then you 'll know where you stand. Please dont make major decisions based on "he said, she said".

 

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more, so many armchair lawyers and experts give comments / advice which is incorrect and /or is what they would like to see or like to have have.

Get real advice from the real source, as charlieH rightly said in most cases the ultimate agencies involved are not ogres. 

1 hour ago, tomwct said:

You met a girl. Congrats that's what happens when you come to Thailand. You meet a girl and you pay her for her time. Happens everyday and they are easy to get along with as long as you have a pocket of cash. These are some tips for successfully retiring to Thailand. First, date many girls. Try one for a few months and go get another. Two, learn a little Thai. They will talk about you behind your back. Third, do not bring a lot of cash with you.because you'll be renting an apartment and/or a house for 2-3 years. Your first Visa will cover you for a year of retirement. Fourth, Do Not Buy Anything except maybe transportation, bike, motorcycle, or car. Put in YOUR NAME not the girl you just met! Fifth, do not retire to a Tourist Area, Pattaya, Phuket, Hua Hin, ect. You came to Thailand to experience Thailand, not the Go Go Bars. Try NE Thailand, Korat, Khon Kaen, ect. Sixth, Do Not Buy Anything until you decide to live here permanently and always seek help from fellow Expats who have lived here for a long time. Visit the villages, but stay no longer than 1-2 weeks. You do not want to live in your present GF's Village!

And, as already mentioned get medical insurance (applicable to Thailand) before you come, lots of options on this, maybe other ex UK guys can suggest some medical insurance company names. And note hospital costs in Thailand (apart from government hospitals) are steadily rising.

Just recently we paid the bill for 3 nights in a 3 / 4 star hospital for my Thai son's mother in law, way outside of the city area. 25,000Baht just for the room for 3 nights, plus around 5,000 for doctors rounds, nursing fees, very simple medications, check-in / check-out fees and more. 

13 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

All a bit premature if you ask me come here and see how things go first. 

Nothing wrong with starting to get some facts together, may be useful or critical in terms of making further decisions.

4 hours ago, SteveB2 said:

Permanent residency Applications are different...

 

With most Thai visa applications, providing the applicant satisfies all the published requirements, then with minor clarifications and additions requested at the whim of the immigration officer processing the application, the visa is usually issued.

 

Such is NOT the case for the granting of either Permanent Residency or Thai Citizenship.

 

The published requirements represent the barest minimum requirements for consideration by the CW IMMO PR team. 

 

Because... for PR and Thai citizenship, an additional confidential scoring system plus a committee is used to further vet PR applicants for suitability.

 

I have glanced at a copy of the scoring system, but am in no way privy to all sections - here is a collation of some of the sections used to vet applicant suitability as of my own application in December 2015.

 

Salary

BHT80,000-100,000                15 Points

BHT100,001-120,000              20 Points

BHT120,001 or more               25 Points

 

Married scoring system

2 years                                     5 points

5 years                                     10 points

10 years                                   15 points

15 years+                                 20 points

 

Applicants Age

20-30 years                             2 Points

30-40 years                             5 Points

40-50 years                             10 Points

50-60 years                             8 Points

60 years+                                 5 Points

 

Educational Qualifications

High School only                      3 Points

Higher vocational diploma     5 Points

Bachelor’s degree                    8 Points

Master’s Degree                      10 Points

Doctorate 1                              5 Points

 

Knowledge of Thai Language

Can speak & understand Thai language:8 Points

Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem:10 Points

Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem, Royal Anthem & read Thai:13 Points

Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem, Royal Anthem & read & Write Thai:15 Points

 

There are many more sections in the manual which is about half inch thick document contains dozens of guidance notes for the scoring system.

 

With the Thai Permanent Resident and Thai Citizenship application processes now being very similar - a better idea of the additional vetting process(s) can be obtained by reading the attached official file for vetting citizenship applications. 

Thai Nationality Application eng.pdf

I don't question anything in your post however  a few points are a surprise:  

1.       Married scoring system

2 years                                     5 points

5 years                                     10 points

10 years                                   15 points

15 years+                                 20 points

When I got PR, 25+ years ago, if people asked about this factor, the answer was: PR is about YOU, are YOU a person that has already and can in the future contribute to the development of Thailand.

I was not married to a Thai lady at the date I applied for PR but my Western colleague who applied at the same time was married to a Thai lady and this point was of strong concern to him.

He asked about this point and he's the one who got the reply: ' Married / not married to a Thai lady or any lady is not relevant to PR because PR is about YOU. Are YOU a person that has already and can in the future contribute to the development of Thailand'.

2.       Educational Qualifications

High School only                      3 Points

Higher vocational diploma     5 Points

Bachelor’s degree                    8 Points

Master’s Degree                      10 Points

Doctorate 1                              5 Points

When I got PR, a doctoral degree was preferred. At that time I didn't have a doctoral degree (now have) but I did have 2 masters degrees which, I was told was pretty much necessary to get approval for PR.

Plus there needed to be evidence that 

- The 2 (or more) masters degrees held by the application were valuable in terms of knowledge / technology transfer valuable to the long-term development of Thailand.

Another item, when I got PR the applicant had to prove (documentary proof, current year and history) that he/she had some form of long-term personal investments (started years beforehand: mutual funds, pension schemes etc), showing that there was very little chance the applicant would ever be a financial burden to Thailand).

Another item, I had to provide documentary proof that I did not have a criminal record either in Thailand or my original home country.   

I guess the regulations / requirements change / get adjusted from time to time.

11 hours ago, brianinbangkok said:

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/74654-Camerata's-Guide-To-The-Permanent-Residence-Process

 

Check this topic.

And yeah you need to be working with a workpermit and tax returns for 3 years.

True, from personal experience 25 years ago.

Lots of documents needed but the WP and tax documents were the first documents the senior imm. officer looked for and scrutinized.

My agent asked if copies of numerous older WPs and finalization year by year of my Thai tax return would help (in fact they were already in the wad of documents submitted).  The senior imm. officer replied (he spoke very advanced English) 'not needed by the regulations but leave them in the application documents file, I think it helps to build the image the committee looks for'.

On the other hand one of my work colleagues was using the same agent, he submitted everything about 1 hour after me, also saw a senior imm. officer quickly but a different officer. Agent mentioned that, besides the 3 yrs requirement copies of numerous older wp and tax documents had been included in the submission. Imm. offficer said 'please take them out' which the agent did. 

Just now, transam said:

The only "scam" at the airport is the price of a small beer..........

Agree and I add subway...

23 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

Are you serious, or are you pulling my leg?

 

I've managed a business in Thailand, employing 60 people in a factory, as well as finance and admin, customer service and sales. What are your credentials?

 

A small minority of the Thai workforce as a whole - supervisory, managerial and professional staff - get paid a great deal more than 300 Baht BUT we are not talking about such people when we talk about people who fill in forms. They are rank and file, who make up the majority of the Thai workforce, and they do get paid 300 Baht as an entry level. Hence, since I was referring to a group, it was a reasonable statement of fact to say that such people get wages of 300 Baht. So, I wasn't 'insinuating' anything, I was stating it.

 

On to your next point, that a business needs to make a profit, this is indeed true BUT gross margin for contracted temporary labour is no more than around the 100% mark (which leaves around 75% after SG&A). In this case, however, the gross margin is:

 

Assuming it takes a very generous 5 minutes to fill in a form,

* That's 12 forms per hour, lets call it 10 forms to allow for down time

* The revenue per hour would be 10 x 200 = 2,000 Baht

* The labour cost for that hour would be 300 Baht per day divided by 8 hours worked = 37.5 Baht

* The gross margin would therefore be (2000/37.5) x 100 = 5,333% an ENORMOUS profit by any measure and one that is impossible to justify when the same service costs 10 Baht at the land transport department (because it actually takes a lot less that 5 minutes to fill in a form.

 

In what way does a 5,333% gross margin on a form filling service, which is secondary to the main revenue earner (the Re-entry Permit) seem reasonable to you?

"... 300 Baht per day..."

Just a bit out of date.

11 hours ago, ChakaKhan said:

was at CM immigration today--ONE damn girl checking everyones

paperwork....really..on a monday???

 

the kid next to me had too small a pic--they denied him--he had to

pay 200 baht for new one...i had it done at the local shop--12 pics for 7 baht!

 

Needless to say that photo guy is making a killing--welcome to thailand!

So it's a scam, making a killing because the photo did not comply with the regulations.

Next, it's a scam / making a killing because it's raining?

On 4/5/2017 at 6:47 AM, Nelson24 said:

Sounds advice, thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Yes but don't believe everything you read on any web board. 

4 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

I've had the same medium sized fridge (about 5' tall with separate main and freezer compartments) now for nearly 13 years. Bought it back in '04 when I rented my first apartment. Nice freezer compartment on top, big enough to hold a couple dozen packages of meat, a couple ice cube trays and some tupperware containers plus some stuff in the door. The main compartment has more than enough room to hold everything I need to last a week or more. 

Thought about getting a bigger one but then I'd just be storing more food that I'd end up tossing out because I could fit more in it than I could eat.

 

A lot of the big stores have a decent selection of fridges, from little "bar" fridges up to the huge double door types. Some places even have stand alone "chest" freezers. Not going to look at those until I move up country and buy/set up a back up generator. I've seen people lose freezers full of meat in Canada due to power outages and the power is a lot more reliable back there.

 

Fridges "upcountry" aren't as common as many people simply shop for what they need each day, and leave the leftovers sitting outside with a cover over them to keep the flies off. Fridges also require electricity and that costs money ! The g/f wants to buy a small one for her mother, one of those ones about 1 meter high with a single door and little freezer compartment inside. Big enough to keep some fruit and veggies and a couple ice cube trays. Local shop sells them for around 1,400 baht while the same size in the "big" stores go for 6,000.

Her mom's home has never had a fridge, nor has her grandma's home or her mom's boyfriend. I laughed that if we bought her a fridge everyone in her village would think she was suddenly "hi so" !

Agree, a few years back a buddy did buy fridge, size as mentioned for his mil.  next visit fridge switched off, now just a storage cupboard. 

He asked if if broke down. No.  

13 hours ago, kunfish said:

Was surprising how small the fridges are here. Don't seem useful at least from a USA perspective. Suppose people shop more often but where do they find the time if they work and fight rush hour and have long hours.

Or people eat out often.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Why should you even compare with the USA? 

1 minute ago, Khun Robert said:

Why you want to talk to the local Immigration Office unless you need advice about your Visa or extension of stay.

Try the ministry of Labor, that is the only office who know all the rules about Work Permits.

"Still no hard evidence for cases where farangs have been processed for building or taking care of their own property. Despite the "obvious" wording of the law."

That doesn't mean it's never happened, if caught plenty of folks would possibly not publicize what happened, and may have concerns that they are now on an internet watch list (if such a thing exists). 

On 3/26/2017 at 5:36 PM, Danielsiam said:

The case is : 

 

Her French passport is issued in France, ( she ever had a French passport issued by the French Embassy in Bangkok, but it's already renewed in France ) ( she never used her French passport to the Thai passport control )

- She have already a Thai passport before, she used it to go out and back to Thailand for twice times.

 

 

So, I am afraid the Immigration will tell that the children is already used a Thai passport to exit Thailand, so she must use again it;

But right, the Thai passport is broken

so the French passport is issued in France, not in French Embassy in Bangkok, so I wonder what will be the issues..

 

 

You say that the Thai passport is broken, I guess by saying broken you mean it's damaged and can't be used.

So why not take the damaged Thai passport and any other documents you do have to a Thai passport office and ask for a replacement? 

12 minutes ago, eddysmit said:

You are correct 'the guest', I have been ridiculed in the past when mentioning how the 'authorities' have jumped on foreigners for doing menial work when they have decided to, people should before attempting to mock other people always remember a few rules with regards to doing menial work/jobs, basically no foreigner is allowed to do something a Thai could do no matter how small, each area of Thailand have their own way of 'turning a blind eye' for instance, if you somehow upset the local 'big wig' you would be surprised at the rules that can be pulled, it's the same with applying for a visa or something to do with a visa the rule books are there in black and white but in the small print is also written "each area office can interpret the rules as they see fit", that's how it works, yes, no doubt people have built their own pad and done all sorts of things with no problems, some say things like they have been driving for ten years with no legal documents I'm sure that works just fine for them but it does not make it okay for everyone.

I realize eddysmith didn't make this statement, just repeating it:

"... basically no foreigner is allowed to do something a Thai could do no matter how small..."

The Thai law on this subject doesn't say anything even remotely like that.

The actual law states a list of occupations which are reserved for Thai' citizens only.

The meaning of the specific word 'work', as it relates to the Thai laws on this subject, has a definition, all stated clearly in the appropriate laws. Go to the pinned threads at the start of the ThaiVisa site and you can easily find the actual law.

25 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

Tiger Woods is employed as a golfer.

 

He, of course, obtains a temporary work permit when he "works" in Thailand, although he doesn't need to show it when playing on his own (for his own satisfaction) or with friends (for fun) on his days off.

 

Perhaps the fact that all those amateur golfers who come to Thailand (playing for their own satisfaction/fun) are doing it "in their own time, for themselves" plays a part in them not getting deported for it?

 

Maybe even Thai people have a notion of "context"?

 

 

 

It's been mentioned before that golfers, international singers, bands, etc, who come here to perform need a work permit and they do get temporary WPs. 

27 minutes ago, Khun Robert said:

I went a few years back to the Ministerie of Labour in Krabi to ask what is allowed.

They explained very easy. You can work on your land, rented or leased (before people start you can not own land)

you can work on your house, rebuild extend what ever you like.

You can built your own furniture, even a boat for private use.

 

You can do this without work permit, but if you also have some smaller bungalows for rent, you can not work on those bungalows.

If you build a boat, use it short time, sell it and build a new one, sell it after short time do it again they will see that as a business.

Furniture for own use no problem, if you start or your girlfriend/wife to sell to others it is a business.

Cutting grass  no problem, help your neighbour no problem, use the machine to help half of the village is a business.

Helping out girlfriend/wife with her business is working for her company.

 

To be short: Working on private things or helping a friend no work permits needed. Make your hobby commercial, work permit needed.

 

Your 'advice' seems to totally clash with dozens of well established interpretations of the laws and reported here, by highly credible people including comments /explanations of the said law by senior ministerial officials.

How's that? 

7 minutes ago, Pungdo said:

I built 2 new kitchens on the back of our house last year, after a lot of searching around a couple of years back, I was under the impression that if it is "Your" home then it is ok, but if the neighbours said, "geez I like what you did, can you do the same for me", then the answer would be a definite NO, that would be working and as a prohibited occupation for foreigners, no work permit would ever be gained.

 

The way I see it "Work" can be defined as anything you can pay a Thai to do, so using that logic you would need a work permit to have a toss.

 

You would also not be permitted to wash your car or bike, mow your own lawn etc etc, the list goes on for ever.

"...The way I see it "Work" can be defined as anything you can pay a Thai to do, so using that logic you would need a work permit to have a toss...."

Another arm chair lawyer trying to reinvent the law to what he/she would like it to be?

11 hours ago, elviajero said:

Probably, but you don't know that for sure. I own my house.

 

Even if he doesn't as long as he is not working as a builder in the context of occupation/employment he is not breaking any law.  There is nothing stopping me doing any causal unpaid work on property owned by family/friends.

 

I imagine you are just repeating the misinformation often written on this and other forums.

 

I used to play football for a amateur team. No permission required. If I wanted to play professionally, paid or unpaid, I would need permission.

Is this your opinion / what you think would be nice / what you would like the law to be?

Or are you quoting the word of the appropriate law and the actual meaning of that law?

18 minutes ago, transam said:

Mine has.......

 

 Ours has too by quite an amount because land prices in our area have soured. 

1 minute ago, uchibenkei said:

If you want to own a house in Thailand, start a corporation.  You will own 49% and 51%, which must be Thai owned, you have split up between 3 or 4 Thais you know that don't know each other.  They also presign a document transferring their shares to <to be filled in later>, so you can transfer ownership of their shares to whoever you want, whenever you want. Then the "Thai" corporation owns the house but you effectively control the corporation.  Walk down any street in Bangkok and you'll see homes owned by Indian companies, Japanese companies, etc.  Talk to a lawyer, preferably with some farang staff who can explain in native English.  It will cost more, but much safer than putting the house in your gf's name, which so many people stupidly do.

 

You can even have the corporation sign for your work visa, if it makes enough money.  Talk to a lawyer because that part I don't know very well.

And I add, the actual company registration costs etc., to start a simple Thai company are quite small. Yes It's worth getting some advice from a lawyer or accountant or business agency in regard to some aspects of what your aiming to set up (see below).

But don't fall for the smart quick talking lawyer stuff that the registration fees are very expensive, application can only be submitted by a certain type of lawyer, fees for lawyers to do complex searches are massive etc., it's not true at all.

Actually you can't find plenty of accountants and other business agencies who are well versed in this subject and can do it all, easily and quickly and legally, many charging quite small fees.

Additionally at the end of each financial year the company must submit an annual report to the Thai Companies Office, plus annual tax and audit documents., etc., the accountant can do all of these things so getting a good accountant in the picture from before start up is worthwhile.

In regard to you working for the company it should be a company which has been set up stating that the type of business is XXX, ensuring that the type of business or work stated is such that it can justify having a farang employee.

And remember that if your working for the company, regardless of whether your shown as the CEO, the GM, the COO, an adviser, or a big or a small shareholder you still need a work permit (work permit not work visa). 

1 hour ago, chickenrunCM said:

you can work in your own place, and if your thai gf has 10 houses then you can help her in all. many foreigners have diffent houses and condos and rent them out, maintain then and take care of them, no problem ....  all the smart people here who tell you you can get arrested and deported can npt give you any proven example for it. Yes in Thailand you can get in trouble very easy but also without doing anything wrong

 

 You sure about that?

You mention: "...  all the smart people here who tell you you can get arrested and deported can npt give you any proven example for it."  Actually over the several decades I've been here many cases have made the news. 

You say: "... you can work in your own place, and if your thai gf has 10 houses then you can help her in all. "

Since you say '' ....all the smart people... cannot give examples...", perhaps you can lead by giving examples to support your 'positive' statement'. 

20 hours ago, KittenKong said:

It's not a law but I am delighted that my condo building takes ID from all hookers visitors. Maybe it helps keep some of the worst ones out of the building, and maybe it deters some of the rest from misbehaving whilst they are in the building.

Because of previous problems my old condo in Bkk, by decision of owners at an AGM, took a photo of every visitor plus photocopy of back and front of ID card or passport etc., and actual ID card / passport returned when visitor left the building. Same for any visiting workmen etc.