jope

The question is not why they were involved in drug dealing. The question should be why were they only arrested AFTER the 22nd of May?

That should be the question and that is what should be investigated on all these miraculous break throughs that have progressed with aggressive efficiency that were in a stagnate state PRE 22nd of May.

They are still not arrested. Both sides of the divide have been harvesting big profits from the Golden Triangle since before the Vietnam conflict.

It is hilariously contradictory that Thaksin haters point out extra judicial killings to stop the meth trade was horrendous and then simultaneously say he was involved in drug smuggling.

During the extra judicial killings it was easier to find a virgin in a Pattaya bar than find a methamphetamine dealer in Bangkok. I have seen what meth (yaba) does to people who become addicted to it. People who sell meth should be shot.

It is refreshing to see you admit that Thaksin was involved in extra judicial killings. I was beginning to think that you surmised 2500-2800 people had committed suicide out of regret

At the time of the extra judicial killings nobody gave a flying "you know what" about shot (better: murdered) dealers. Very, very few post in this forum mentioned it. And later Thaksin was convicted only to get his money and not because of the killings. I am happy to see that at least a few people think that fundamental rights are for everybody, even dealers. Unfortunately, I am rather convinced that, had all this been discovered in Bangkok or the south or even within the military, the general attitude in this forum would be completely different.

Hate to say it, but the experts commenting some months ago said that basically, if he's been in a coma this long he's almost certainly going to be a vegetable. Might be a miracle but there are few precedent cases of people recovering from weeks or months in a coma.

The press statement only speaks of a "long phase of rehabilitation". So, obviously there is something left to "rehabilitate", but who can say how much?

Although German, not that much into F1. But the donation he made after the tsunami was extraordanary. Obviously he was really moved, which I found very impressive. So, great news. All the best to him.

They just got overpaid for their rice and now they want more free handouts. These are the vultures breaking the economy's back. The typical "not knowing when enough is enough " attitude. Greedy sods. Pay some taxes.

So, throw them under the bus. Is that your suggestion?

I would think that less subsidies to help farmers grow crops would cause the price to rise, bringing in more tax revenue and more foreign currency. Eh, what do I know anyway after all of those courses in economics.

Yes, particularly with (not only) Cambodia and Vietnam producing rice at lower costs the tax revenue and and the incoming flow of foreign currency will probably rise.(irony off)

But it is a complex problem and with my courses in economis I rather restrain myself. Totally get your point. ;-)

My solution, the military should freeze all the Shin,s assets worldwide and take the cash they need out of this

You clearly dont know alot about financial markets then

I can just see it now with general Prayuth calling some asset management firm in Switzerland - "hello Sir we want confiscate all the monies of your best customer, me Thai army"

Some of you guys need to leave the country more and realise that outside Thailand these guys have zero clout and authority, hell even in some areas of Thailand they have zero clout and authority.

I think Soutpeel just wanted to express that he genuinely dislikes the Shinawatras (source of all evil and all, very fancy these days). I am certain he knows that the idea is ridiculous. If not, even better. :-)

if the crop aint worth your sweat, time to start finding a job in a factory, now all the low paying burmese + cambodians are leaving

so more than work enough

emphasis on "low paying", right?

My solution, the military should freeze all the Shin,s assets worldwide and take the cash they need out of this

"Dear Heads of State,

please be advised, you are requested to send all the Shin-money in your country to my account at the TMB, or else...

your cooperation is appreciated

best regards

the General"

joking aside, it must come as a huge disappointment for all the "<deleted> the poor - no subsidies"-supporters that the military will continue the rice scheme under a different name. I guess, they are caught in the "we are the good guys"-pr-trap or the military was informed that certain players have money invested in rice-production...

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

The takeover was the result of the state into which thai society has been manipulated. Once populism sinks its fangs into the social fabric, it's very hard to turn back the clock. Growing & multiplying factions, even majority factions, no longer care about anything besides the next favor, the next benefit, the next payout, what's in it for them... Democracy morphs into mob rule. Cherished tradition, cultural values, standards of behavior, and even religion become so much sentimental mush. Loyalty & patriotism devolve into dependency ... dependency into resentment. The truly selfless politician goes the way of the dinosaur. The damage done by Thaksin goes far far deeper than an illegal megamoney business deal, and will no doubt long survive him. He has singlehandedly practically ensured a string of military takeovers in the decades ahead: the devil himself if he exists must be impressed.

If Gen. Prayuth can somehow prevail against all this, and overcome this negative social momentum, while maintaining his widely recognized commitment to restraint and firm but gentle leadership, he will have done his country a monumental service.

Did you notice that? Every time someone says or writes "Thaksin" the air smells of sulfur. And if you say "Thaksin" twice in front of a mirror a shadow will appear behind you.

So, I think we reached the end of the line: Thaksin has reached the Lucifer-Level. No further increase possible.

The poll is probably correct but polls carry no credibility outside a democratic framework.

Why not if the answers are given anonymously?

But how can you be certain that the person asking the questions will actually keep it anonymous?

can't see how... the majority of Thai's are vindictive and compromise is non-existent

what you actually need is a great (civilian) leader to emerge - a Mandala or a Ghandi or an Aung San Suu Kyi

Yes, wouldn't that be great? And then he or she dares to win an election without reporting to a certain yellow party and their military. And that's the beginning of the end then. Within a few months he or she would be painted as an amoral, greedy, overall disgusting enemy of all decent Thai people. His or her administration and Bangkok would be shut down. It would be determined that the majority stands behind an outrageously clean oppositionI and a savior in a green uniform (accompanied by some tanks) would "clean up" and detain our Thai Ghandi. I would call this process "Shinawatrisation" and it will work every time, even with a Ghandi.

My first thoughts were that the general and his buddies will change the election process to ensure the majority cannot be heard. Its dawned on me how he will achieve it. He will ensure he takes the route that sees maybe more 50% of MPs appointed rather than elected. Any comments welcome

Exactly my thoughts. Another way to go could be voting for candidates (instead of parties) and changing the constituencies unfairly. So, the North and the Northeast would have only 40 % of the seats in parliament. That should work for the old powers, shouldn't it?

Just love it when the red shirts get desperate. say anything no facts needed.

the Democrats never tried any thing of the kind. The Yellow shirts suggested a similar situation but never tried to bring it about. In fact they dropped it before they seized the air ports.

Find another straw. Best be quick about it. The Junta is cleaning up things fast and you might not be around with statements like that. Remember it is still Martial Law. All they did was remove the curfew.

Your happiness is heartwarming. But thanks for confirming that there was a "similar situation suggested". Alright, so no "proposal" but only a suggestion. It is still my personal favorite for the "reforming" of the country.

It was not the Democrats it was the Yellow Shirts.

Grab another straw.

You don't mean reforming of the country you mean taker over by Academics and the Elite.

What "straw" are you talking about???

I was simply speculating what kind of "reform" the military or their little civilian future government will bring to the good people of Thailand (I assume, nothing what can be called free elections).

You think now that all the power lies in the hands of one single person everything will turn out great? Good for you, good for you! It is obvious how happy you are. So, continue celebrating.

If the party that lost the elections is unhappy with the result then there is a way out: do better, offer policies the majority of the people want and you will be in the next government.

So offer 41% above market value then to 7% of the population? Do you not read my posts or do you conveniently ignore them because it does not suit your agenda?

I stated that 7% of the population (rice farmers) or 14% of the population (redshirts) were offered unsustainable scheme to win their votes while the other 93% or 86% of the population were ignored because they did not vote for the PTP. That is not a majority of the population ergo the Thai people as a whole will not benefit. 7% will benefit at the behest of the remainder.

So the below actions by the PTP is OK then because they were elected?

Plodprasop said as much regarding the convention centre in Phuket by telling them that when they vote for the PTP they will get what they want. To reiterate, this is a PTP deputy prime minister (the number 2, "big boss") telling the public they will get what they want when they vote PTP. Is that democracy? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

What is the job of a freely elected government? To abuse power, blatant corruption, ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority, running the country by an unelected criminal and telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us"? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

Do you not agree that a democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population or do you think it is OK to exclude over 80% of the population and reward the other 20% because they voted for the PTP? Apparently it is OK IF they were elected.

According to your analogy Al- Bashir won the last election with 68% of the vote and he has ruled Sudan since 1989, al-Bashir is wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes and crimes against humanity, namely in the Darfur region. 2.7 million people are believed to have been displaced since 2003 as a result of his military campaign against the Darfur rebels. He was elected. I would suggest they need reform. Apparently they don't because he was elected.

Name a deputy PM in any country (apart from dictatorial countries in Africa) that state "you will get what you want when you vote for us". Actually don't, because I know you will cherry pick that statement to avoid the inconvenient reality of PTP politics.

This might come as a surprise, but politicians can promise whatever they want (it's not a crime, you know). But I know exactly what will happen, if people like you (or like the "Democrats" in Thailand for that matter) would get their way: simply ALL elections would be declared void because the people who voted for the "wrong" party did so because they were manipulated (the proof lies in the fact itself: if they had not been "manipulated" they would have voted for the "right" party). That was the main point of my post.

And for reasons unknown to me you decided to not take notice of the other things I said, namely that I regard the system and the last government as flawed, too. But please, continue rampaging, I nevertheless agree (at least partially).

By the way: a politician who promises literally everything does not serve his purpose, as people very well know that that is a lie and simply not possible. And offering better policies does not mean that parties simply increase subsidies. There are a few more fields of politics where parties can convince people to change shirts (in Thailand a great first step would be to stop insulting people as scum, people might actually consider listening). But what am I thinking, they are stupid and uneducated and must be protected by enlightened people like you, right? Why don't you post your nauseating red-buffaloes-picture again. It will make a happy ending to this thread and will be regarded as a great last word of a noble minded character.

"But we also want them to make the best use of their mandate for the country's sake. The fish needs to be shared among Thais and not become any single group's trophy."

Wise words indeed. Previously a supporter base was being manipulated to ensure electoral victory. That is a dictatorship. A democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population. Not just rice farmers who make up only 7% of the Thai population or red shirts who only make up 14% of the population. That is not moving Thailand forward.

The majority of Thai's realize this and to make a real democracy a reality, reform is needed before the next election lest in 10 to 20 years time that narrow voter base is manipulated again and we go back to square one. I cannot speak for the Thai's and I don't purport to, but if the PTP win after the reform my wife who is a supporter of all the principles of democracy would herald the win a success of democracy knowing full well there will be no abuse of power, no blatant corruption, no ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority no running of the country by an unelected criminal and no telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us" and as is indicated previously a brutal repression of peaceful protesting that is more akin to Iraq than Thailand.

Because after reform anyone that trys that will be held accountable.

Thank god for Preyuth.

A tad top heavy on the naievity. When this crowd gives control back to the people the rules will have been changed in such a manner that PTPs majority will be negated in some way that means they will always need to form a coalition , therefor being unable to act as a functioning government because they will always be under the threat of the coalition partner pulling out. I would go as far to say that I think it will be many many years before we see a one party government in Thailand

Do not worry about his statements. Usually it is "voter-fraud", this time it is only "manipulated". In the end it is his unwillingness to accept any election result that does not fit his one true opinion.

Anyway, i agree that the "reforms" will not let a freely elected government actually do their job (unless the "right" party has won, off course). My personal favorite: only 40 % of the parliament will be voted in, the other 60 % will be appointed (by whom I wonder). That was the reform proposal the "Democrats" brought in last time.

Nothing to do with accepting any results. One need only look at the amnesty bill and the 2007 constitution to see the PTP do not respect the majority when it does not suit them. Again though this is not about accepting a majority. I accept the result. They won the election. Full stop.

I stated that 7% of the population (rice farmers) or 14% of the population (redshirts) were offered unsustainable scheme to win their votes while the other 93% or 86% of the population were ignored because they did not vote for the PTP.

Plodprasop said as much regarding the convention centre in Phuket by telling them that when they vote for the PTP they will get what they want. To reiterate, this is a PTP deputy prime minister (the number 2, "big boss") telling the public they will get what they want when they vote PTP. Is that democracy? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

What is the job of a freely elected government? To abuse power, blatant corruption, ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority, running the country by an unelected criminal and telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us"? Apparently it is IF they were elected.

Do you not agree that a democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population or do you think it is OK to exclude over 80% of the population and reward the other 20% because they voted for the PTP? Apparently it is OK IF they were elected.

According to your analogy Al- Bashir won the last election with 68% of the vote and he has ruled Sudan since 1989, al-Bashir is wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes and crimes against humanity, namely in the Darfur region. 2.7 million people are believed to have been displaced since 2003 as a result of his military campaign against the Darfur rebels. He was elected. I would suggest they need reform. Apparently they don't because he was elected.

Guess what? Elections do not allow you to abuse democracy post ballot box.

I accept all election results. It is the manipulation of the 7% (or 14%) is what the General is trying to alleviate for the betterment of the remaining 80% of the Thai population.

​May reconciliation be with you. Leave the bitter shadows my friend and embrace a change for the better.

As you honored me with an answer I will do the same (no irony!).

I would not disagree, if someone told me that the system is flawed and that reform is needed (IMHO not by the military, though). I would not disagree, if someone told me that the last government was flawed. But I definitely disagree, if someone says that promising voters certain policies they will benefit from is manipulating the voters and should be banned. With that argument you could make every single election null and void by simply stating that the voters have been manipulated. If the party that lost the elections is unhappy with the result then there is a way out: do better, offer policies the majority of the people want and you will be in the next government.

"But we also want them to make the best use of their mandate for the country's sake. The fish needs to be shared among Thais and not become any single group's trophy."

Wise words indeed. Previously a supporter base was being manipulated to ensure electoral victory. That is a dictatorship. A democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population. Not just rice farmers who make up only 7% of the Thai population or red shirts who only make up 14% of the population. That is not moving Thailand forward.

The majority of Thai's realize this and to make a real democracy a reality, reform is needed before the next election lest in 10 to 20 years time that narrow voter base is manipulated again and we go back to square one. I cannot speak for the Thai's and I don't purport to, but if the PTP win after the reform my wife who is a supporter of all the principles of democracy would herald the win a success of democracy knowing full well there will be no abuse of power, no blatant corruption, no ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority no running of the country by an unelected criminal and no telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us" and as is indicated previously a brutal repression of peaceful protesting that is more akin to Iraq than Thailand.

Because after reform anyone that trys that will be held accountable.

Thank god for Preyuth.

A tad top heavy on the naievity. When this crowd gives control back to the people the rules will have been changed in such a manner that PTPs majority will be negated in some way that means they will always need to form a coalition , therefor being unable to act as a functioning government because they will always be under the threat of the coalition partner pulling out. I would go as far to say that I think it will be many many years before we see a one party government in Thailand

Do not worry about his statements. Usually it is "voter-fraud", this time it is only "manipulated". In the end it is his unwillingness to accept any election result that does not fit his one true opinion.

Anyway, i agree that the "reforms" will not let a freely elected government actually do their job (unless the "right" party has won, off course). My personal favorite: only 40 % of the parliament will be voted in, the other 60 % will be appointed (by whom I wonder). That was the reform proposal the "Democrats" brought in last time.

Just love it when the red shirts get desperate. say anything no facts needed.

the Democrats never tried any thing of the kind. The Yellow shirts suggested a similar situation but never tried to bring it about. In fact they dropped it before they seized the air ports.

Find another straw. Best be quick about it. The Junta is cleaning up things fast and you might not be around with statements like that. Remember it is still Martial Law. All they did was remove the curfew.

Your happiness is heartwarming. But thanks for confirming that there was a "similar situation suggested". Alright, so no "proposal" but only a suggestion. It is still my personal favorite for the "reforming" of the country.

"But we also want them to make the best use of their mandate for the country's sake. The fish needs to be shared among Thais and not become any single group's trophy."

Wise words indeed. Previously a supporter base was being manipulated to ensure electoral victory. That is a dictatorship. A democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population. Not just rice farmers who make up only 7% of the Thai population or red shirts who only make up 14% of the population. That is not moving Thailand forward.

The majority of Thai's realize this and to make a real democracy a reality, reform is needed before the next election lest in 10 to 20 years time that narrow voter base is manipulated again and we go back to square one. I cannot speak for the Thai's and I don't purport to, but if the PTP win after the reform my wife who is a supporter of all the principles of democracy would herald the win a success of democracy knowing full well there will be no abuse of power, no blatant corruption, no ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority no running of the country by an unelected criminal and no telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us" and as is indicated previously a brutal repression of peaceful protesting that is more akin to Iraq than Thailand.

Because after reform anyone that trys that will be held accountable.

Thank god for Preyuth.

A tad top heavy on the naievity. When this crowd gives control back to the people the rules will have been changed in such a manner that PTPs majority will be negated in some way that means they will always need to form a coalition , therefor being unable to act as a functioning government because they will always be under the threat of the coalition partner pulling out. I would go as far to say that I think it will be many many years before we see a one party government in Thailand

Do not worry about his statements. Usually it is "voter-fraud", this time it is only "manipulated". In the end it is his unwillingness to accept any election result that does not fit his one true opinion.

Anyway, i agree that the "reforms" will not let a freely elected government actually do their job (unless the "right" party has won, off course). My personal favorite: only 40 % of the parliament will be voted in, the other 60 % will be appointed (by whom I wonder). That was the reform proposal the "Democrats" brought in last time.

An ordinary criminal background instead of a politically motivated assault, how disappointing that must be for all the haters of the "red scum". Do not worry, sooner or later something will come up that will give reason to execute the absolute power that is now lying in the hands of one single person.

In times of yore, there were 'the King's Marshalls', the Highest Authority could call in, to correct very grave situations, where Justice had not been able to be served. I'm not speaking of vigilante, or death squad here, it was a very select small team of very respected men of high honour and skills, some even say they still exist.

Days of Kings, Princess's to be saved, Dragons to be slayed and Knights to behold. You have it all here now. The KIng is obvious, the Princess can be Thailand, the dragon being the scumbag politicians or the patronage system that has allowed these scumbags to flourish - take your pick.

Putting a modern spin on it I see a General who has the balls to say enough is enough at watching his country being ripped apart and away from the basis rules of democracy by scumbags disguised as politicians. In most countries politicians are rated about the equal of used car salesmen, sorry women are equally as bad so share the crap too, so salespersons, but this lot in Thailand take the cake and are lower than snakes bellies. The General has the Highest Authority for this grave situation and it is called the Martial Law Act which he is lawfully following. The Act even if it does give wide yielding powers is his check and balance along to an extent international bodies like the UN and that also is accepting of the toothless criticism of the said UN. Individual countries leaders like the Yanks and their puppy dog heeler the Aussies should also shut up on the basis of their bias and misinformed opinions.

I would think being in the General's boots the ultimate honour that the General would most cherish would be delivering to the 'one' who has reigned over most of this mess in thai history, a Thailand with the foundation stones of democracy secured, if not flourishing, so that 'one' could rightfully when he sits by his Buddha be proclaimed as the Much Loved and Revered 'one' that his General could wish for.

King's Marshalls? Princesses to be saved?? Knights??? Dragons????

Bloody hell, this forum is getting better by the minute. And I thought it is the year 2014.

But please, continue. A good laugh is always welcome.

That is correct and when one side committed over 90% of the deaths and injuries over the last 6 months, 100% committed voter fraud over the last 12 months and over 90% committed corruption over the last 3 years then one can be guaranteed that the 90% and over will say without a doubt they are being picked on.

I say to them….Don't break they law then.

The voter-fraud-myth again? ANFREL.org found the elections fair and square.

Corruption ratio 90/10? Any source? Or just an opinion declared as fact?

Murder-count (yes, I would call it murder instead of killing or deaths) for just the last six months? Any (convenient) reason for this specific time frame?

Joy and happiness is all around! It is so heartwarming. And doesn't it almost feel like actually being a member of the junta and actually ruling over the people? What a successful day and well deserved after all this hard posting! But the quote of the day (if not the week) must be "good dictatorship". To coin such an expression, well, that is something!

The title should read "Pro Truth" Beauty Queen Concedes Crown.

She spoke from the heart and the hypocrisy was condemnation in the form of threats to her and her family, calling her a fat pig and intimidating her until she handed the crown back. So her condemners that purport to hate someone that speaks openly and with distain did exactly the same thing as her.

Reminds me of Somsak from the EC that said something harsh and critical about red shirts and their reaction fell into the exact narrative as he had described them. So through the red shirts actions they proved Somsak right!

It has played out the same way here and they are their own worst enemy.

Well done Miss Thailand. You will always be remembered as a good judge of character.

So, let me get this straight. When SHE gives her "open and honest opinion" about red shirts, and advocates killing them, that is okay with you. But when those she though should be eliminated and killed send messages to her to express their own "open and honest opinions", that's NOT okay with you. Do the words "biased" and "prejudiced" mean anything to you?

+1

Now we all see just how blinkered djjamie really is. Sad git he is, really.

At least, he did not give his "I respect them, I really do..." speech again. That would have made me throw up (again).

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

fortunatley your not a judge with a pre-planned verdict eh

The idea of a (political) verdict in Thailand that is NOT pre-planned is laughable.

6. Very quickly started paying the unpaid farmers.

Did I miss that? Was that in the news somewhere? The first Farmers actually hold money in their hands????????????

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/729233-thai-rice-farmers-rejoice-after-junta-head-orders-immediate-cash-payment/?utm_source=newsletter-20140526-1527&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news

Thanks for the link!

(still wondering though, why it worked the years before but not his year, anyway, different topic)