jope

Do they have to go there for recruitment, or can they join with help from their regional police commander ? Just wondering. If its regional, then money will be involved for sure.

Organizational reform alone won't do it. There is always the chance to make some money. I remember a case in the Afghanistan when a teacher at the Police Academy sold the final exams to his recruits (The questions were impossible to answer without knowing the answers in advance).

The first step must be to guarantee a decent living for police officers. Otherwise, what are they supposed to do? They must take a second or third job or they take bribes.

Btw. I remember vaguely that Thaksin (yes, THE Thaksin) once said in a public speech that, if they want the police not to be corrupt, they will have to pay them more money. What I found interesting was that no politician picked up that line and started a public discussion (what would have been done in any western country). Seems that nobody saw the need to change anything.

6. Very quickly started paying the unpaid farmers.

Did I miss that? Was that in the news somewhere? The first Farmers actually hold money in their hands????????????

This is great news, and something I saw coming. Be interesting to see the outcome

of the reform . Do not think it is possible to make them worse, so I look forward to

a positive result.

The police have always been solidly behind Thaksin as his sort of strong man

on the ground here .I suspect the military clipping the wings of the police is just

another in the many moves to rid Thailand of the Thaksin cancer...

You are making a very good point. I think nobody in the military gives a flying "you know what" about police corruption. They are regarded as supporters of Thaksin the Horrible. So, they must go. In addition, as a few people said here before, it tames the competition.

Please correct me, if I am wrong: you also do not care about police corruption as long as it does not benefit "the wrong people"?

What government did you ask for an education?

Ask is the wrong word. I was given a government education.

Who ultimately paid for your "government education"? When exactly did education become a "basic human right" and in what country?

The taxpayer paid for my elemental government education. Other education I have received has either been paid for by my employer who was initially the government, again the taxpayer, or myself out of my own pocket. Never by my family or any other benefactor.

The United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 26 Paragraph 1

Article 26.

• (1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.

The United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

The United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights was accepted by the UN General Assembly on 10 December 1948

The United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights applies to all countries. Whether they decide to participate or not.

Unfortunately the UNDoHR cannot be seen as a law but must be seen as a political program/goal instead. That means the Declaration applies even in Thailand but there is no court you could turn to, if your fundamental rights are violated. That would have been the case with the former Thai "judiciary", now with martial law in force the chance to ask a court for help does not even exist theoretically.

quote:

Just out of curiosity: where does this number "15" come from? I think somebody mentioned it somewhere (maybe he learnt that at school or in the military) and now many people repeat it. So, where do you have this number from?

In Germany the Constitutional Court named just 5 principles (but explained them extensionally, so you can split them up and come to a higher number).

They also explained that democracy cannot exist without Rule of Law and Fundamental Rights. The UN see it exactly that way. For a strange reason nobody from the "Dems"-side seem to discuss that.

Anyway: why 15?

Nice deferring the subject again…

Name 2 principles and I will tell you how the PTP abused them.

Can you?

unquote

Alright the, I take your bait (I'll probably will regret it) Although Merangue already named them (thanks for that, Merangue, I'm out of likes, otherwise I would have given you a few) I will give you a few in my own words, which might not be accurately translated as I am German.

Sovereignty of the people executed by free and regular elections

Accountability of the government

Legitimacy of the administration (probably the wrong word, I mean they have to stick to laws and regulations)

Multi-Party-System (political parties)

"One Man - One Vote"

I think Merangue named them better. Anyway, please, please, PLEASE do not tell me what the former government has done wrong (I heard it all before). Simply tell me, why it must be 15 (!) principles and who told you. Just that. Not really difficult, is it?

I have no idea what link your talking about…

I hope you can accept the military rule as a good thing because it will restore the 15 principles of democracy the PTP thieved the Thai people of since 2011.

The below are the ones that need to be educated. I truly respect them, but they need to understand that democracy only flourishes under an educated populous. They don;t understand that yet. That is why reform is needed.

I love them. I respect them. I am married to one of them. I taught her democracy and she appreciates it. She learnt that the PTP are 1 principle supporters now. I want the red shirts to be educated, but alas the UDD would prefer to put a gun in their hands and send them onto a dictatorial battlefield. That is a Maoist theory the UDD leadership have learnt and will pass onto the gullible. I pity them.

I hope Thailand restores democracy as you do…But please don't forget there is more than one principle to democracy.

You are very good! Your post made me vomit.

It had a similar effect on me.

This member appreciates democracy, and somehow figures a military dictatorship will help restore it, just like it did 11 times before.

Of course, everyone trusts that this general who now wields absolute power is a good guy with good intentions. Let's hope so, because right now hope is all we have.

Totally agree, still, there is this old Greek Saying: "But the worst of all tortures is hope."

I do hope they do not try to get rid of the farangs, their main source of incum

I hate to burst your bubble but.....*POP*

:-)

Thanks, that made it a lot better!

This coup has few similarities to "last time."

What happened to the Senate after the 2006 coup?

After the 2006 coup the Senate got changed from fully elected to half appointed. But even having it half packed with their pals, the Generals couldn't control Thailand. That's why they and Suthep are having another go in 2014. In the next constitution I'd guess there'll be a fully appointed Senate with veto powers over the lower house. And the lower house will be only partly elected, and those citizens who get to vote will have to prove they have a certain income and educational level. That's what they did in Rhodesia and in 19th century Britain, and for a while it was quite effective in keeping the working class under control.

That's exactly what I think will happen. They brought it up last time (60 % of the parliament seats were supposed to be appointed). So the yellow clad "Herrenmenschen" will give something to the "Untermenschen" to play with. "Here you are, have your funny little elections and haggle out who can sit in the remaining parliament seats. Now go and play somewhere else."

When was the election due before Suthep started his carry on? Next year? The families and businesses backing Abhisit have plenty of money (far more than Thaksin), and had all the time in the world to spend some of it mounting a proper election campaign. They had a good chance of winning too, with Yinglucks dysfunctional administration on the ropes over the rice scheme, the car scheme, and all the other gimmicky stuff coming badly unstuck right before the scheduled election.

Did they take the chance being offered them? No, they bottled it. So now Thailand is back to square one, when it could have been on its way to being a proper repeating democracy. Quite how the country will move on from here is anyone's guess. But for those who think that a military dictatorship is a step in the right direction - it's been tried before. Not once, but lots of times. And every single time it's ended in tears. They say that the definition of insanity is repeating the same action over and over expecting a different result. By that measure, the country and half the posters on these boards are not right in the head.

It needn't have been this way at all if certain people had just done their bloody duty. And that's what's so saddening.

But isn't that the point, that those families backing the "Democrats" find it appalling that they have to win an election before they can maintain their God-given rightful power over everything and everyone in Thailand? I have no other explanation for their behavior.

Maybe a non-confrontational protest would be in order. If everyone mailed a pork chop or a shoe to the UAE Embassy until they deport Dr. Thaksin back to his homeland. The whole family could be re-united. Wouldn't that be nice?

Address it to Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra c/o His Eminence The Sultan of Dubai

Posters of your llk must have a very empty library on Thai politics. Thaksin created the problem for himself back in 2004 when he recorder the biggest election landslide win in Thai History. Effectively he was the most popular man in Thailand, people were even hanging his picture over fire place..thats frightening for the establishment, amart, elite whatever you want to call them. Since that time it has been their sole mission to demonise him. Truth he is no more corrupt than Abhisit, Suthep, Prayuth, Anupong, Chuan Leek Pai etc..hes just a dam bit smarter. Hold an election now if you dont believe me...dont come back with vote buying..all sides do it

Thai proverb : "He who has most money wins elections with biggest majority"

Thaksin proved that very easily. Of course he or his family members will win every time. Vote buying isn't rocket science. Its the Thai version of democracy. If Thailand had a half decent democracy we wouldn't be in this mess every 10 years.

If your argument is "every party buys votes" then it follows that the richest guy wins right?

ANFREL.org stated that the elections were fair and square. I find this source more reliable than any random post here.

Good luck to Him. He is the Abe Lincoln of Thailand.

I take it he will not be going to the theatre any time soon....??

LOL

And what a surprisingly jolly ending of the first act this would be. .-)

Gen P. Is going to pass new laws to get rid of this red shirt scum once and for all. Celebrate!

Yes, let's also get rid of the dark skinned people, and the disabled, and the dwarfs, and the muslims, and the farangs, Anyone who does not agree with us, look like us, think like us...lets kick them out!

Why do you want to do that. Have you a valid reason? Did I miss some thing?

Have they been murdering people who oppose them and intimidating people to do what they tell them to do?

What did I miss?

You made his point!

It is called irony.

In e years time, thaksin and yingluck with both be in jail. Suthep will the the supreme leader. Election will be abolish, and a dirty word. Any mention of election is an act of overthrowing the sovereign govt hence carry a 10 years jail sentence. Thailand will be free of corruption, and every thai shall live in peace and prosperity at last. All gambling and prostitution is abolish, and thai citizen can travel freely to usa and Europe freely without a visa anymore (like the Singaporean now).

Am I the only one who saw the irony and laughed (at least about the two last sentences, the first part is realistic)???

"Mr. Abhisit accused the governments then and now of having hidden motives behind their election"

Well you can safetly say that Abhisit is not going to run for elections again. If he's doing the "elections as a Thaksin plot" thing, he's just lining up his excuses.

I think the line up now is:

Democracy: People, Military, Pheu Thai and 53 other parties

Middle: Part of NACC, part of EC, part of Independent agencies

Premocracy: Democrats, a few partisan appointees in NACC, EC, and other agencies

I don't fancy your side much, Abhisit. Perhaps their best strategy is to send you and Suthep to jail and clear the way for an electable leader instead. Someone with more votes and fewer massacres.

Though he is no saint but Abhisit is not yet sentenced by court. He has stated clearly he will face justice. Though he is no Evil Thaksin has been eloping since 2008. Had he accepted the justice he will be PM since 2010....

Do you really think that Thaksin could survive the Thai "justice"-system?

He wouldnt be a dubai citizen if he thought he could

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So you think, he thinks that he would actually get a fair trial simply because he is a Dubai citizen? No, he cannot be that naive.

"Mr. Abhisit accused the governments then and now of having hidden motives behind their election"

Well you can safetly say that Abhisit is not going to run for elections again. If he's doing the "elections as a Thaksin plot" thing, he's just lining up his excuses.

I think the line up now is:

Democracy: People, Military, Pheu Thai and 53 other parties

Middle: Part of NACC, part of EC, part of Independent agencies

Premocracy: Democrats, a few partisan appointees in NACC, EC, and other agencies

I don't fancy your side much, Abhisit. Perhaps their best strategy is to send you and Suthep to jail and clear the way for an electable leader instead. Someone with more votes and fewer massacres.

Though he is no saint but Abhisit is not yet sentenced by court. He has stated clearly he will face justice. Though he is no Evil Thaksin has been eloping since 2008. Had he accepted the justice he will be PM since 2010....

Do you really think that Thaksin could survive the Thai "justice"-system?

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Shouldnt he be convicted first in order to apply for a royal pardon ?

He was out on bail , pending more serious charges and under investigation for Human rights abuse by the UN, which has miraculously stopped , I wounder why.

...investigation for human rights abuse by the UN...

Where does that come from??? I can think of only one UN institution that investigates human rights abuses and that would be the International Criminal Court, only dealing in war crimes and only, if the courts of the respective country in which the crimes were committed or the suspect comes from cannot or will not deal with the crimes.

To my knowledge it was all about Thaksin's money. To my knowledge no court and no-one within the Democrats gave a flying f..k about shot dealers or southern terrorists (wash't he even commended by the king for the drug "raids"?????? not certain about that, though)

Should not the reporter and that foreign media also be charged for being an accessory?And should not youtube be banned in thailand if the refuse to take it down.

;-)

Right to the point!

The problem of this forum is that there are so many strange and unthinkable posts (which are actually meant seriously) that it is almost impossible to use sarcasm or irony without clearly marking it as such.

Jesus I assumed this was a Notthenation.com article when I first saw the title

Thanks for mentioning notthenation.com. For a strange reason I was not aware of their existence until now (how could I miss that???). Great stuff.

This will be the standard reaction from those who will be arrested. Criminal activities should be dealt with on the spot. There is no need to wait for an arrest warrant.

Why bother even trying to make a Arrest warrant. Shooting them on the spot might be a better option for you (icommunity). Zieg hail!!

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I assume this will be the standard greeting in Thailand once the brown, sorry, yellow shirt movement has "ousted" the (maybe not likable but nevertheless elected) government.

fab4 posted:

An alternative setup is used in Germany, where the second chamber consists of delegates (also not elected) of the several states (16 to date) and the number of seats relates to the number of people of each state. These are delegates of the state government, not elected!. And they are to make sure that the insterests of each state is being taken into account during legislative work by the (elected) parliament. Just so that you know...

Sam

That needs clarification:

Actually the members of the German second chamber are elected, not directly though (like US Senators). They are members of the respective state governments (elected by the respective state parliaments) and one of their duties is to represent their states in the second chamber. So, there is no lack in democratic principles at all!

Mum can mean quiet or mother... mother here could be extrapolated to mean... I'll remain mum on that.

In case nobody has done so already: thanks for the explanation.

My English is not that bad, but this "mum" left me a bit confused. .-)

Valid?..what makes that mandate valid? Abhisit's government is illegitimate because it came to power under military pressure through a parliamentary vote after disputed court rulings ousted two elected pro-Thaksin governments. At the very least, this is undemocratic and this is indeed unacceptable by not just one or two natives of Thailand, but thousands.

Couldn't agree more!!! This is purely about democracy and democratic rights. I am always surprised how much support and 'understanding' dictators (I still dare to call them so) have.

Yea and the tooth fairy will leave a coin for you tonight - unbelievable how blue eyed the red shirt supporters are or its simple propaganda.

Than its the poor who want a better life... now its democracy... make up your bleeding minds what you want to call Taksins attempt at a coup

Just two questions: why are your democratic rights sacred while the reds are supposed to go home and eat their sticky rice?

Why is the situation now a bad coup attempt while the coups before were a great thing?

Update:

AFP: Myanmar opposition leader Suu Kyi says Thailand's political crisis shows that constitution drawn up by military can never deliver stability

That must come as a real disappointment to many of the coup supporters here!