Somjot

That is exactly the problem with that narrow sighted "everything is black or white" thinking. Now, pay attention: Nobody, do you understand?, N O B O D Y in his right mind would say the Thai workers or any other of the victims of Oktober 7 deserved to be murdered or kidnapped. Do you understand? Once again, nobody is supporting that because no person with at least a bit of moral and compassion will ever back the murder of innocents. The reason, why you keep repeating or worse keep believing that, is because the Israel supporters try to smear those who criticize Israel. To be against Israel`s mass murder in Gaza does not mean to be for the atrocities on Oktober 7. Those morons with an IQ lower than room temperature keep saying that, because their little brains do not allow them any logical thinking which goes beyond their pigeonhole thinking with the capacity of only 2 pigeonholes. But logic actually demands that if you criticize one mass murder of innocents you cannot support another, except of course you think that the lives of one people are valuable while the lives of another people are not - which is textbook racism. Now would you please elaborate why you and some others here keep condemning the mass murder from October 7, a single day, while you support and defend the mass murder which has been ongoing since then, for about 21 months, which is 660 days - EVERY DAY??

You know what? I actually believe you. Same as many of us we grew up with the stories showing Israel and Israelis being the forever victim. Our media never objectively informed us about what is really happening in the world, our politicians made us believe that "they" envy us because of our freedoms and therefore commit terror attacks, the last major ones being 21 years ago in Spain and 24 years ago in the US with 194 causalities in the first and almost 3000 in the latter, so it is OK for us to kill Hundred Thousands of them until now and Hollywood with all it`s Holocaust series and movies and generally in movies picturing the classical villain with dark hair and a beard. Brainwashing. But it also includes allowing others to do the thinking for you. If you one day succeed in looking at our world objectively and without any prejudice you might see a different one. But leaning back refusing to believe anything else than we are the goodies and they are the baddies is so much more comfortable. I am generally pro comfortable. But not in this case. Because it causes death and suffering to others. And by allowing those in power to keep on with their lies and killings it is only a question of time until it will be us who are the victims.

Your explanations and excuses are becoming more and more ridiculous and desperate. Logically thinking people, not only Palestinian supporters, state that suppressing and killing Palestinians and stealing their land is what creates Palestinian terrorists. Nobody ever said that Palestinian babies will inevitably grow up to be terrorists. Being born as a Palestinian is not the reason for becoming a terrorist. It is more likely being suppressed and mistreated and watching one`s family and friends being maimed and killed with impunity which may turn someone into a terrorist or in his view into a freedom fighter. And your post saying "they would have grown up to be terrorists" was a direct answer to the accusation of @ChristineC that 870 babies under 1 year old were killed by Israel, which is clearly a justification made by you and not some quote of pro Pallys so at least have the decency to stand with it. With your mind gymnastics you really should go and see a doctor. You know, the one with the big sofa.

The state of denial some people are in, just because their narrow minds cannot or refuse to, under any circumstances, process the thought that Israel might have done anything wrong, is alarming. They come up with any thinkable excuse or explanation no matter how ridiculous or far-fetched it is. But once in a while they show their true face, which is the one of a deeply racist and colonialist person, who does not grant innocent children the right to live and even supports them being murdered, if they are born to the in his mind wrong people. When asked about the 870 babies less than 1 year old in Gaza killed by Israel`s attacks he simply stated "They would have grown up to be terrorists." He is a passionate enemy of Hamas and Nazis writing things like: "Hamas need to go the same way as Nazis . Wiped out into oblivion " Not realizing that he as perfectly adopted the Nazi mindset, who saw themselves and the lives of their children as something valuable which must be protected while Jewish kids were worthless and seen as parasites, which had to be erased. How can anyone be so blind and ignorant??

Really?

History taught us, that the only way to not let another Holocaust happen is not wiping out those who caused it, as it would imply either that it happens again and one wipes out the perpetrators afterwards, failing the goal to prevent it or one wipes the perpetrators out before it happens, which would turn oneself into the perpetrator, as you cannot punish someone, before that person or group has done anything wrong. The latter might sound weird to you as you support the murder of children because "they would grow up to be terrorists". The Nazis did not appear without a reason. That came from the treaty of Versailles which literally crushed Germany declaring it as the only perpetrator and loser of WW 1 plus having to pay large reparations for decades, which Germans did not understand as not a single battle field was on German soil. Hamas was created out of similar reasons.

I am not a native speaker, so maybe I am wrong but I thought that "you" can be used as a second person pronoun (referring to the person being addressed), but also as a general pronoun referring to any unspecified person same as "one". I did not accuse you of stealing land. However when you ask me to address that to Israel, you basically admit, that you too see Israel`s actions as land theft. So why do you keep supporting them?

Brave words and a noble goal. One can only applaud. Little did they know, that only 3 years later they would establish a home country causing the opposite of peace and freedom for decades to come. From 1941 to 1945 Nazis killed about 38.000 Jews (not including other nationalities like Russians, etc.) by execution or starvation in Buchenwald, until the day when help arrived from the US. 80 years later their descendants killed twice as many Palestinians in half the time in Gaza with US help arriving every day. What an irony of history.

I apologize, I had neither the idea that I was stealing something from Jews nor the intention to do so. Yet your accusation brings me to a fantastic idea the world could tremendously benefit from. We Germans stop stealing the slogan "Never again" from the Jews because you invented that and the Jews, I mean the Israelis, stop the the mass slaughtering of men, women and children, because this is something we might not have invented but are most famous for. Or at least stop stealing other people`s land justifying it with a promise some sky daddy gave you thousands of years ago. That is a Nazi concept called "Lebensraum" except they had no sky daddy promise. By the way, what kind of almighty being is that, you pray to, promising you something which belongs to others and making you kill women and children for it?

Let's be serious. I am sure each one of us can provide more or less reliable, sources to prove his narrative. But just let's take a look at your sense of justice. Because according to you, if I get into a heated argument with my neighbor maybe because he was visiting somebody and in his absence I stole a piece of his land and built my private sauna on it. Now he has the audacity to be upset about it, comes to my house and slaps me in the face or even breaks my nose and then runs back to his place and I follow him, kill him, maime his wife, rape his daughter and shoot his 8 year old son in the head, then according to your moral compass that is all on him, right? Because I have the right to defend myself. And you call me a fool.

THIS is the savior you offer me? This failed terrorist with daddy issues? You can`t be serious. A look at his face should tell you that he has lost his marbles long ago. Here my offer from the same debate in Oxford. here a part of it, all 100% true I came to speak directly to Zionists here and everywhere we let you into our homes when your own countries tried to murder you and everyone else turned you away we fed you and we clothed you we gave you shelter and we shared from the bounty of our land with you and when the time was ripe you kicked us out of our homes and homeland then you killed and robbed and burned and looted our lives if the roles were reversed if Palestinians had spent the last eight decades stealing Jewish homes expelling oppressing imprisoning poisoning torturing killing raping them if Palestinians bombed every Israeli hospital university library museum cultural center synagogue and simultaneously set up an observation platform where citizens came to watch their slaughter as if a tourist attraction if Palestinians made their children wander barefoot with empty pots made them gather the flesh of their parents into plastic bags bury their siblings their cousins their friends if we mercilessly forced their niku babies to die alone in hospital beds crying until they could cry no more died and decomposed in the same spot if Palestinians used wheat flour a truck to lure starving Jews then opened fire on them as they gathered to collect the day's bread if a Palestinian sniper bragged about blowing out 42 Jewish kneecaps in one day as one Israeli soldier did in 2019 if a Palestinian admitted to CNN that he ran over hundreds of Jews with his tank their squished flesh lingering in the tank treads if Jewish women were forced to give birth in filth get C-sections or leg amputations without anesthesia if we destroyed their children then decorated our tanks with their toys the world were watching the livereamed systematic annihilation of Jews in real time there would be no debating whether that constituted terrorism or genocide But let`s not argue about which historian or narrative tells the truth. Let`s nature have the last word about who is really indigenous to the land of Palestine A study titled “Hypersensivity to pollen of Olea europaea in Israel“ was conducted by researchers affiliated with Kupat Holim, Zamenhoff Allergy Clinic in Tel Aviv, Israel. It concluded that 66% of Jewish Israelis are hypersensitive (allergic) to the pollen of native olive trees, compared to only 16% of Arabs in Israel. Just google it. That study is from Israel. Hypersensitivity to pollen of Olea europaea in Israel Or as scientists love to say: q.e.d.

Calling the internationally accepted history of that area a fable or playing with words about a homeland does not make your version more truthful. It is a fact that the area which is today Israel, Gaza and the West Bank was populated by people, mostly Muslims plus a few Christians and very few Jews (3%) for more than 1000 years until about 100 years ago. Living side by side peacefully most of the time. Then the UK got the mandate over Palestine and promised Jewish people a homeland – not a state - In an area, which did not belong to them. Then hundred thousands of Jews began migrating into that area, buying some 6% of it and attacking Arabs with their terrorist organizations like Irgun and Lehi and Hagana; you might remember the King David Holtel bombing. After the UN partition plan was decided Jews took much more land then was assigned to them, declared the state of Israel and since then did everything for the Arabs not getting their state. Wars do not kill people. People kill people. People in Gaza are killed by Israel and the IDF. Blaming Hamas for it is same as saying in case of an accident in Thailand where a holiday making foreigner is involved, it is always the fault of the foreigner because if he wouldn't have spent his holiday in Thailand that accident would have never happened. Hamas was created by Israel in order to oppose the PLO hoping the Arabs would kill each other. Actually, it was Mr. Netanyahu who admitted that he facilitated the funding of Hamas in the first years. And Jewish kids aren`t? Nope, I believe only facts from hopefully reliable resources. I do not believe that any people have a right to return to some place, which their ancestors (?) had left 2000 years ago but somehow their dubious Sky Daddy has promised to them in some ancient book. You are admitting that the US has torn apart Iraq and will do it to Iran but you still call them Terrorists?? What is your definition of terrorist? "Some people, whose land I stole and who dare to resist?"

Great, then maybe you can explain something, which I struggle to understand. How does one brag anonymously? Like on a forum with a made up name. Doesn`t being anonymous somehow defy the whole purpose of bragging?

Haven`t found any official figure confirming your number. All still claim 6 Million. Even if it was - using the word "only" would be an abomination - 1,6 Million, it would not make it any better. When analyzing the Holocaust unflinching examination and unsparing honesty was the only way to come to terms with our past but also understanding how that could ever happen in order to avoid anything like that for all times. NEVER AGAIN! I always thought, that counts for every people, race or religion. Obviously I was wrong. For our politicians it seems to be "Never again to the Jews .... but when it comes to other people ... like Palestinians ... well ... let`s not make hasty promises,." Bastards! Should all be prosecuted in the Hague. I hope future Israelis will apply the same level of uncompromising honesty when it comes to analyze their mass murder in Gaza, but one thing is clear already: Germany will be exposed as a part of it. Damned Nazis are not back - they just never left.

@Packer I know, you don't really mean that and are just making a provoking joke. But honestly, thats utmost disgusting. 6 Million, many of them women and children, murdered on an industrial level, worst thing I've ever heard about, by far the darkest part of my country's history and you are asking for more? That is something one should never make fun of. Ever.

Another Philanthropist. Humanity and compassion still exist. Hooray!

Which part of it? Do you really believe that? Then maybe you are believing in a fable. Maybe because it is repeated so many times. The actual war might end but not the killing of Palestinians and the theft of their land like right now in the West Bank. They did not start a war and yet are getting killed and robbed as we speak. Do you think Israel would surrender those, who raped and murdered Palestinian women and children? Hardly. The prefer to present them as war heroes in TV shows.

So pretty much ALL human rights organizations plus most of the world`s media is spreading Hamas lies? And those allegedly killed are still alive and brought to some Spa facility by the IDF? Getting a Swedish massage from the Easter bunny?

What are you trying to tell us? When Israel was founded the Jews had bought merely 6% of the land, but they took it all. Fact is, most Jews had left the place 2000 years ago. At the beginning of the last century from those people living in Palestine only around 3% were Jewish. Be careful with saying things like no Arab country likes the Palestinians. So what? Even if true, does that give anyone the right to steal their land, drive them out or murder them? Ever heard of the term "the Jewish question"? 2 centuries ago that was a huge issue in Europe, including France, England and later Germany and basically meant, how do we get rid of the Jews leading to the Balfour declaration promising the Jews a homeland far away from England somewhere in Palestine and later to the Holocaust which was therefore called "the final solution" to hat question. A lack of popularity should never be an excuse to mistreat people. However, by 1948 due to massive migration about 1/3 of the population in Palestine was Jewish, yet they took 2/3 of the land and established the Jewish ethno state of Israel while forcefully driving 750.000 Palestinians out and killing Thousands. They call themselves the indigenous people but until the last century they did not even have their own language. Most European Jews spoke Yiddish, originating from medieval German; they had to reinvent Hebrew which had not been used for 2 Millennia and lacked many words. Plus changing their names to sound more Jewish: Mileikowski to Netanjahu, Grün to Gurion, the founder of Israel and Golda Mabowitz to Golda Meir and still doing so like Gal Greenstein aka Gal Gadot. Another often repeated nonsense is “Israel must defend itself, Israel is at the brink of extinction”. Since its foundation Israel has grown constantly no matter if you look at the geographic (growing as we speak due to illegal settlements), the population (from 630.000 to 7.000.000) or the economics (4th most successful economy in the world). Not exactly what one would imagine when hearing brink of extinction. It's rather the Palestinians in Gaza who are on the brink of extinction and any comment about huge amounts of money being sent to Gaza since 1967, and not been used to create a second Singapore are unbelievably ignorant and cynical. A bad joke. After 1967 Gaza was occupied by Israel for 40 years killing many Palestinians and restricting every aspect of life like access to water, to agriculture and export and to jobs basically only allowing them to earn some money in Israel as cheap labor with increasing settlement on their land. Since 2006 until now Gaza`s Borders by land sea and air power completely controlled by Israel same as any movement of gardens and anything getting in or out of that place not to mention the hundreds off Palestinians killed by regular attacks from the IDF. Second Singapore? What a cynical joke!

Labeling again. I was born deep in West Germany. Still remember the smell of their cars, the Trabant, with it`s 2 stroke motor, when the border fell in the summer of 1990, but boy their chicks were hot. When did I ever blame Israel for those refugees? The resolution might be toothless but that is how it starts, sooner or later leading to the loss of our basic rights like the freedom of speech. I must have missed the part of the resolution stating that it can only be applied to refugees. Primitive culture?? Seriously?? You should really stop using your history books to replace that broken leg of your kitchen table. These people had already cities (Aleppo is one of the oldest cities in human history), laws, science, trade, poetry and art, when your ancestors had barely crawled down from the trees and were throwing stones at the moon. You know, Nazis used to say the same thing about Jews. Seriously, what correlation do you see between one`s hygiene and the value of his political opinion? So, dirty Germans and Muslims And that is not hate speech or at least libel? As you obviously were close enough to sniff at them, why didn`t you ask them, why they were there? That`s because most Germans are cowards, world champions in looking the other way and later claim "Sorry we did not know". Would not be the first time in our history. At the world cup in Qatar even our players were displaying their support for human rights criticizing the country Where are our celebrities now, when Germany is the second largest weapons supplier of the mass slaughter in Gaza? Cowards!! Why? Because they were not beating them up? I haven`t been questioned once in the last quarter century with more than 100 flights from or to BKK. Maybe it was because you looked as if you would not ..... True, we call it "Potenzbürste" or "Mösenfeile", which can be translated to "Virility brush" and "Pussy rasp" or "Pussy file" and is supposed to make them look older or more respectable. Never had one. Why would someone change his identity? Seriously, you might call me naive but I have no agenda or play around in online communities or try to find personal satisfaction in trolling or insulting people although I enjoy a bit of sarcasm once in a while. I speak, read and write, by far not perfectly, 6 languages, have chosen a profession decades ago which is fundamentally based on helping others, and do so even in my free time. Just to name one of many examples: when Covid hit Thailand and the shut down started many people run out of food and money So I organized food donations on several weekends I almost got arrested for that as the BIB showed up and tried to stop the whole thing because we had not asked for permission in city hall (how would I know) and we did not maintain social distancing (which was almost impossible with all those hungry people) Luckily the crowd could "convince" those nice officers and we learned our lesson and asked the people to put their names in a list and come to pick up their share at a certain time we handed out 2500 Kilos of rice and almost the same amount of canned fish and Mama soup plus water. I also drove around looking for homeless people in need and handed out food, water or small amounts of money. Sometimes those we helped send pics Yet I will never forget that guy, left by his wife, effortlessly tried to find a job to feed his daughter and later gave up and took the easy way out in a river not far away from Ayudhya. His 5 year old daughter followed him. It is so easy to dehumanize refugees when you sit in your warm home, well fed and with no financial worries. Ask yourself, what would have to happen, to make you leave your place, your family, your social environment and travel mostly by foot Thousands of Miles to safety with little money in your pocket and once that is used up, you depend on the mercy of others. Do you think any refugee wants to be one? However, when I see how Israel treats children in Gaza or treats those whom it has internationally starved and who now come to beg for some food, I feel rage and disgust. Have you ever imagined to be born as a Gazan? Can you even imagine the pain in a heart of a parent, who is carrying his child, shot by an IDF sniper, to a bombed hospital?? I can`t. But only thinking about it torments me. In order to dehumanize someone you must dehumanize yourself first. And when someone supports the murder of children stating "they would have grown up to be terrorists" this person has clearly lost his humanity and is a victim of this conflict. He just doesn`t know it. You want to know my identity? My identity is the one of a human being who fundamentally believes that the same justice must apply to everyone as anything else is not justice. Injustice leads to conflict which inevitably leads to catastrophe and suffering. Always. I deeply believe in the declaration of human rights and oppose anyone or any country which breaks those rights as it is treason to our ancestors who fought, bled and even died for it and it is treason to all humanity. The preamble: We the peoples of the United Nations determined to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind; and to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations ..

That is so hilarious, don`t you realize, that it is YOU who has a different position depending on the religion and ethnicity of the perpetrators. When it comes to Darfur, Yemen or Syria we would all side with the weakest, the innocents, the children and everybody forcefully relocated by an evil and powerful opponent but when it comes to Israel all the usually applied rules to differentiate between good and bad, victim and perpetrator seem somehow be upside down, victimizing the landthief and aggressor. How do you know, I ignore them? This is the War in Israel thread. They do not belong here. Typical labeling. How do you know, I hate Israel? You just want to label me and put me into the Nazi corner. I hate it`s actual government and I will not stop opposing them as, to quote: Einstein: "If I were to remain silent, I'd be guilty of complicity." Participate peacefully in any demo for Palestine, you will be arrested. Demonstrate for Israel and you will be protected by German police. Wear an kufiyah, and you will be arrested. Show sympathy for the kids in Gaza and you might lose your job. On November 7, 2024, the Bundestag adopted the cross-party motion of the SPD, CDU/CSU, Bündnis 90/Die Grünen and the FDP "Never again is now: protecting, preserving and strengthening Jewish life in Germany" No propaganda but the sad and scaring truth. Plus the whole upside down moral. How do you make amends to people whose ancestors you have murdered by the Millions? By helping them to do something similar to another people?? I hate the actual Israeli government as much as the actual German government for once again choosing the wrong side of history. Now go and label me. What is it going to be? Semi - anti - Nazi? or Anti - semi - Nazi?

What is the point of your post? I referred to you as buddy, because this term can be used in close friendships but also indicate a shared experience like being comembers in a forum and is generally seen als positive, friendly and not hostile You answered rather rudely "I am not your buddy". And I never called you a racist; only pointed out your obviously racist opinion towards Thai people; one racist opinion does not make a person racist.

Err ... it was not any well oiled propaganda but the well oiled Israeli army slaughtering innocent women and children and medics and journallists and helpworkers, and and and, which made people side with them and by THEM I mean the people of Gaza not Hamas. Now exchange Hamas with IDF and you do not nee to FA to FO When people are shocked by the destruction of "children, schools and hospitals" they are sympathizing with children and their schools and hospitals and not with terrorists, That is only how you would like to label them. which makes you a terrorist supporter, a supporter of those terrorists who kill children by the tens of thousands.

Thank you for that question and to answer it: Because as much as I feel sorry for victims in Darfur and any other place on this globe, where innocent and helpless people are suppressed or even murdered there is one slight, yet important difference to the Genocide in Gaza: MY HOME COUNTRY DOES NOT SUPPORT THE PERPETRATOR WITH MONEY AND WEAPONS THE PERPETRATORS OF THOSE GENOCIDES HAVE NOT CORRUPTED MY COUNTRY`S MORALS AND UNDERMINED MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH. THEY HAVE NOT MADE MY GORVERNMENT CHANGE THE LAWS IN THEIR FAVOR THEY HAVE NOT MADE MY COUNTRY BEING PROCECUTED FOR GENOCIDE OR COMPLICITY TO GENOCIDE: Enough?

I agree, this is a useful forum but let's be realistic, no matter how much and how intensely we discuss the Israel Gaza conflict it will not have the slightest effect on it. And basically, we have here two different entrenched positions: one seems to be unconditionally for Israel while the other, to which I belong, is opposing Israel’s actions in Gaza. I can speak only for myself, when I reveal the motives for my participation in this discussion: Other than you and the likes of you would love to label me being anti Semitic or anti Jewish, this could not be further from the truth, and I think you know that. You revealed yourself as a far-right American Jew, so it's only fair if I do the same: I am German, was a bit of a leftist in my youth but age and experience brought me to the opposite side. I think in the US you have this saying: if you are in your 20s and do not vote for the Democrats you have no heart. If you are in your 40s and still vote for the Democrats, you have no brain. However, I grew up with the inherited guilt from the Third Reich, despite at that time even my grandparents were only teenagers, my parents not even born. That's why I never really felt guilty, but I happily accepted the burden that it will be my forever duty to NEVER let anything like that happen AGAIN. EVER. That is the reason for my opinion but not for my participation in here. Because that burden came together with a question, somehow people forgot to ask these days: WHY or better: How could this ever happen? Reading all the arguments of those supporting Israel and justifying it`s mass murder in Gaza, and it is a mass murder and absolutely WRONG, no matter what, and observing their reactions to criticism taught me a lot and answered many questions, surely not all. It definitely helped me to somehow come to terms with the darkest chapter of my country`s past, and to understand my grandparents’ and their parents’ generation. But at least their generation suffered horribly from the developments after the Treaty of Versailles with all their devalued money being useless and no food and jobs leading to people starving and even dying from starvation, so in their desperation they turned to the wrong leader. Despite being unforgivable but this might one day be seen as some kind of explanation for what happened or maybe even as an excuse. The question is, what will be yours, when history judges you and asks you: “Where have you been, when they were burning children in Gaza?”