old wanderer

What i found fascinating during the last days of the protests of the PAD was the tremendous amount of new posters showed up on the board. They would jump into heated discussion, with strong points of view, 90% would be using the same "talking Points" of Somchai was democratically elected, Thaskin was elected by the vast majority of the people,...etc, this usually started from post 1 and on.

It was almost like we were invaded by a psyops from some political group?

Another thing I wondered about was the fact one very vocal poster showed over 17,800 post....I have been on this board for just a few years, but around Thailand for almost 30 years, and think I post frequently, but 4 years and 17,800 post....get a life....

Bottom line is I think a lot of the bloviating that was taking place was orchestrated by outside forces.

I have been reading the BLOG of the Editor or The Nation.

Boy trying to keep up with what is happening, as it seems to change almost minute by minute. I know this is a bit long, but to me fascinating:

By Tulsathit Taptim

Editor of The Nation

Dec 6, 10 am: Pojaman is quiet. The Newin group is quiet. The Democrats are quiet. The Puea Thai Party is quiet. Smaller coalition partners are quiet. By "quiet" I mean they are not talking to the media or having nothing new to say. But at times like this, important things usually happen behind the scenes.

Thaksin's spokesman Pongthep Thepkanchana said Pojaman came back to visit her ailing mother. Speculation that she returned to settle things with Newin has been predictably denied. Her house is quiet. Nobody's getting out. Nobody's coming in. There are such things as cell phones, though.

Dec 6, 4 pm: Sorry for my own long silence. The deceptive calm is set to be shattered in the next hour or so. Reports and, ahem, rumours are flooding in at the moment, revolving around the initially scorned scenario of the Democrats serving as the new core of the next government.

The Democrats' "press conference" on the formation of the next government was said to have been scheduled at 5 pm. Shortly after this news reached the press, the Puea Thai side claimed it would have a media conference of its own before that.

Who's the real deal? We shall know soon. Please stay tuned.

Dec 6, 4.20 pm: Democrat sources claim the party now has a commitment of approximate 240 MPs, considerably exceeding the simple majority mark of 224 MPs. The news has come from nowhere as there were no visible talks between the Democrats and the coalition partners over the past two days.

Looking at the reaction from the Puea Thai Party and you feel the Democrat claims have rattled the ruling politicians. "I don't believe the coalition partners will be doing that, especially just a day after pledging their support for us," said Nong Khai MP Pongpan Sunthornchai. "Have Chat Thai and Machima Thipataya MPs forgotten already why their parties were dissolved in the first place?"

Well, we can look at it two ways. Perhaps MPs from both parties "remember" too well why their parties were dissolved in the first place.

A big humble pie awaits me if Abhisit or Chuan is the next prime minister. My no-nonsense dismissal of their chances must have found its way into news groups or web blogs all across the globe.

Dec 6, 4.45 pm: Well, the humble pie is still hanging in the balance. Latest reports from the Democrat camp itself said the 5 pm press conference is now in doubt. Reasons given were Chat Thai playing hard to get. Senior Chat Thai adviser Sanan Kachornprasart, predictabaly, has emerged as a PM contender. There have also been reports that Snoh _ who somehow is still convinced that he is an influential factor _ remains adamant that he wants neither Abhisit or a Puea Thai candidate.

Dec 6, 5 pm: Only some junior Democrats have shown up at the Sukhothai Hotel where the Democrat press conference is scheduled to take place. None of them can give useful information to reporters. The MPs basically know as much as you and me.

However, there is one interesting arrival. Manit Nop-amornbordi from the defunct Machima Thipataya Party told reporters he represented about 10 members of his former party to support the Democrats as the core of the next government.

The press conference has not been officially cancelled. Whatever is going on behind the scenes must be very hectic.

Dec 6, 5.30 pm: It seems the Democrats are being stood up at the Sukhothai Hotel. To be exact, the reporters are being stood up by the Democrats at the hotel. Nobody important has arrived.

On the other side, the Puea Thai Party's headquarters has seen senior members of Puea Paendin and Pracharaj parties arriving. No official announcement has been made, though.

Maybe I have watched too many movies, but in my head I'm seeing Thai politicians sitting in front of laptop computers watching obscene amounts of money going in all directions in frantic wired transfers.

Dec 6, 6.30 pm: I was about to change the headline to "Loosen your seatbelt" when Democrat secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban told reporters "It's still on. We are the real deal."

Talks are still ongoing, he said. Suthep's confidence is based on the Newin faction still leaning toward the Democrats. The Democrats, as of now, seems to still have Ruamjaithai Chat Pattana under their wing. Puea Paendin is allegedly split, torn between both camps. And Pracharaj seems firmly with Puea Thai.

For now, the fight for Chat Thai votes will be fierce. Sanan's stocks are rising. But actually, with every vote more important than before, everyone's stocks are rising.

Dec 6, 6.45 pm:Urgent, Suthep announces the Democrat Party will form a new government with former Chat Thai MPs, Newin faction members, Ruamjai Thai Chat Pattana, Puea Paendin and Matchima Thipataya parties.

Top representative from Chat Thai, Sanan, is at the press conference, along with leaders of the all mentioned camps.

The humble pie, that is.

Dec 6, 7.10 pm: After taking many deep breaths, it has occurred to me that the party dissolutions mean it won't be that easy for the Democrats. The Sukhothai Hotel press conference looked credible enough, but we have to take into account the fact that Sanan was representing a dissolved Chat Thai, whose MPs are free to go anywhere. The same goes for the defunct Matchima Thiptaya Party.

Snoh is with Puea Thai and Puea Thai souces claimed Chat Thai leader Banharn remained committed with them.

With Puea Thai having 190 MPs at the moment, all it takes is like 35 more MPs to at least create a deadlock. Every vote counts now. I'm keeping the humble pie ready but not eating it yet.

Well, and the thought of Newin being a new kingmaker......

Dec 6, 8 pm: Details of today's behind-the-scenes drama have begun to trickle in. It was said that Pojaman might have returned to Thailand a bit too late, because by the time of her arrival, Sanan's secret talks with the Democrats had already made much progress.

Sanan, according to sources, had been given a greenlight by ex-Chat Thai leader Banharn to decide the dissolved party's future. (What a big irony if you remember the fierce rivalry between the two men when Sanan was secretary-general of the Democrat Party).

The Democrats were confident until their planned press conference was announced early in the afternoon, triggering a hectic response from the Puea Thai Party. Puea Thai senior members, probably acting under instructions of Pojaman, frantically tried to contact Sanan and gave him a BIG offer. After days of insisting that the new prime minister must be someone from Puea Thai, now Sanan was reportedly told by Sompong Amornwiwat that he (Sanan) could take the chief executive post. (Hence the breif rumours in the afternoon that Sanan was the latest prime ministerial candidate)

That proved to be too late, though apparently it managed to throw the Democrats into disarray for a while. Torn between the great Puea Thai offer and fears that he could end up like Samak Sundaravej and Somchai Wongsawat and his government could be short-lived, Sanan chose to back his former rival Abhisit as the new prime minister.

The Democrats claim they now command 250-260 MPs. The biggest question now is whether the proclaimed numbers are secured.

Dec 6, 8.40 pm: It's not over yet. Puea Thai is reportedly trying to tear as many Newin faction members from the Democrat alliance as possible. As I have mentioned before, the party dissolutions have created some sort of a free-for-all situation, and in cutthroat politics like this you are naturally tempted to make yourself available for the highest bidder.

And we are having by-elections coming for 29 seats in the House. What if Puea Thai sweep that?

Dec 6, 9.10 pm: Puea Thai is said to have launched one of the fiercest lobbyings Thai politics has ever seen. The "homeless" MPs whose groups have pledged allegiance with the Democrats are getting phone calls and everyone who matters on the Puea Thai side is being mobilized to make it happen.

They are even having Plan B and Plan C in store. Sources said if Puea Thai couldn't lure enough MPs to its side, acting prime minister Chavarat Charnveerakul could be instructed to dissolve the House. Problem is Chavarat's close connection with Newin may prove a major obstacle.

Plan C is for red-shirt protesters to do a PAD. It will be quite a sight if Parliament is swarmed by demonstrators in red hellbent on obstructing election of the new prime minister.

To me this is one of the best windows into what make Thai politics so "dynamic".

You will notice not one mention of Thaskin per say, but I am sure he is going crazy trying to control some of this.

Originally Khunying Pojaman was to arrive with Somchai, but the PAD closing of the airport prevented that, now she may be too late to save the ball game for the love of her life.

I got that 40 MBaht rumor just for the Newin people. The others might be cheaper.

say at the end 20 Million per MP.....what an amount!!!!!!

A Shinawatra as PM would be the guarantee to get PAD on the streets again and the support will further increase.

Here are some thoughts from the editor of The Nation he posted in his blog:

Dec 5,10.30 pm: Pojaman must have landed or she will definitely be landing any minute now, a mini irony as she is one of the first passengers to land at Suvarnabhumi after its reopening.

Among the first questions: Will she be arrested? The only arrest warrant against her, in her capacity as a defendant in the Ratchadapisek land case, has been cancelled after she was acquitted. She was sentenced to jail in a seperate case of tax evasion, but she is still technically in the process of appeal.

Why is she back? Look what Snoh and the Newin group have to say now about the next prime minister and we shall know the answer. Unlike her husband, Pojaman has never spoken politics in public. In fact, I have never seen her speak anything in public. But she is known to be very effective when it comes to backdoor arrangements.

Get ready for renewed talks about Chalerm and Mingkwan as the new PM. As for Chuan and Abhisit, it's back to "so near yet so far" once again.

Dec 6, 10 am: Pojaman is quiet. The Newin group is quiet. The Democrats are quiet. The Puea Thai Party is quiet. Smaller coalition partners are quiet. By "quiet" I mean they are not talking to the media or having nothing new to say. But at times like this, important things usually happen behind the scenes.

Thaksin's spokesman Pongthep Thepkanchana said Pojaman came back to visit her ailing mother. Speculation that she returned to settle things with Newin has been predictably denied. Her house is quiet. Nobody's getting out. Nobody's coming in. There are such things as cell phones, though.

Very intersting

Here is a little excerpt from the 1st page of the Divorce announcment:

The National Anti-Corruption Commission revealed last year that Thaksin officially declared assets worth 614.39 million baht when he took office, while Khunying Potjaman had 8.48 billion baht.

So does the chunky little black widow hold most of the cards....and is this not about the 76,000,000,000b that is still frozen by the courts, being community property, she intends to reclaim at least 50% if not all of it.

Of course the fact that another Shinawatra is about to take over the leading political party is of no concern to anyone?

Puea Thai is expected to meet tomorrow to select its new executive board and leader. The party leader should be Yingluck Shinawatra who will be appointed to retain her elder brother Thaksin's influence over the party

If anybody remebers, the PPP was unable to elect Somchai (Thaskins brother-in-law) to be PM until Thaskin's sister showed up the 2nd day carrying a large bag over her shoulder, went into private meeting with various MP's left with an empty bag, and withing the hour Somchai was PM

Word on the street is this time the PM have upped the anti to 40,000,000b ea.

Dec 15 should be interesting, and more so Dec 25th.

All these fanciful demands for the lady's immediate arrest and imprisonment do not seem to account for the one thing that matters most: The law. Now correct me if I am wrong;

1. The judgement was for tax evasion, with a 3 year incarceration penalty.

2. Bail was granted while the conviction was appealed. If an individual is not allowed to travel as per the bail conditions, then the passport is must be surrendered. If a person refuses to surrender a passport, it is cancelled and this is logged. If the passport had been cancelled, then a person of this notoriety would have had a difficult time getting into the nations that she had visited, because the immigration authorities would have checked for a valid passport. It seems then, that the passport was not cancelled and that she was traveling on a valid passport.

3. If people are questioning the validity of the bail conditions, then the validity of the conviction must be questioned as well since it was the same court that adjudicated the case as set the bail conditions. When Judge Pramote Pipatpramote gave his ruling he he ripped into the Shinawatras, which would suggest that he was not impressed by their conduct. As such, I don't think he would have then been overly generous when he set the bail conditions.

4. During her absence, the bail was not revoked. This indicates that she had not violated any of her bail conditions. If bail was revoked, please show me the decision.

5. This is a tax evasion case, not a violent crime. Tax evasion offenders are not carted off to jail during the appeal process. It is highly unusual that a defendant in a non violent crime would be incarcerated during the appeal process. I find it odd that people are claiming that the law has been bent in her favour and/or the police have failed by not immediately arresting and incarcerating her. Can any of these same people provide me examples of Thai tax evasion cases where the situation is different, or examples from their homelands where defendants in tax evasion cases under appeal that have met bail conditions are sent directly to jail?

What are the grounds for her immediate incarceration if she has returned to Thailand and the conviction is under appeal? Cite the law where it says she must be sent to jail? I think those demanding this action are unable to provide the law and jurisprudence that would support such an action.

People were demanding that she return to face the courts. Well she has, so deal with what you wished for. Personally, I wish she would have stayed away as her return will only lead to bigger problems.

Yes there is a lot of confusion....

In Thailand when you appear before the court to hear the charges, you are granted bail most of the time.

The arrest warrant I had mentioned earlier was the 500,000b she had to post for the land case...both did not appear for the final hearing and an arrest warrant was issued. Ultimately Thaskin was found guilty after giving an extra 30 days. She was found not guilty, hence the arrest warrant went away.

In her tax evasion case the time for appeal (usually 30 days was somehow extended to Nov 18), and this coincided with her divorce, so she filed an appeal on the very last day possible. Thaskin did not appeal his conviction so is SOL.

Now there was so much publicity about how poor Pojaman did not want her husband to return to politics, yet watch her actions as she tries to gain control of the new majority party....if ever there was a Black Widow...she is one.

The Arabian Business News interview with Mr. T reported in the preamble that the UK had frozed some assets of Thaksin forcing him to sell Manchester City. Few seem to have picked up on this. Maybe it is just poor reporting that confused the asset freeze of Thailand with the UK. Maybe it is not.

I have been hearing the same thing on the "street". Seems like the money he bought Manchester City with, was money he had hidden from declaring in Thailand....(i.e. dirty money), hence the freeze, until the matter can be clarified.

Immigration officials checked their documents onboard the plane and they immediately left on a car after the document clearance.

This I don't understand Khun Pojaman Shinawatra is a common citizen why they make and exeption for her. Whey she can't follow mormal procedures like any other passenger.

A check will show Khunying Pojaman still has a diplomatic passport (in her married name, which she used to enter), even though she is now using her single name....

It takes about 3 weeks to generate a normal passport from a consulate.

for a transfer of Bt738 million pay Bt546 million tax? fat.

she didn't pay tax in one of her deals and makes it look like an inner family present. so what? that is the big deal?

envy other peoples money. nothing bettter to do?

in the end it was her or her family money only exist because they have been busy, lucky and hard working. and money that gave other poeple a job.

the protests just waste other peoples money, a lot of other people and lot of money, destory even other people businesses and the base for the job of other people.

did you never try to cheat the tax office little bit? tax laws so complicated but with loopholes to evade paying taxes that there is a own service industry for. tax counsellor take money from people and in return they give the advice and concept how to pay as less as possible on tax money. and the people you know here in thailand. are that all honest taxpayers?

anyone knows how much tax money the thaksin complex still did generated every year?

1. The Bt 546 included intrest and PENALTIES, for not paying the normal tax in the 1st place...it way more than doubled the amount if she had just paid what was owed.

2/ The Family has been Busy, LUcky and Hard Working....Let see. Government buys a piece of land for 2 billion baht and sells it to Pojaman for 25% of what they paid....while being busy to change the normal bidding rules to require a 30% deposit with your bid and telling others to not bid exept for the 2 bids by associates that were somehow mysteriously lower?

Or Lucky....Yet those that campained against corruption just seem to disappear.

3. Tax law complicated....Not when you change the law just before a major sale to exempt any tax....(of course this is not corruption be cause it was the law....(that was made to specifically exempt you interest)

4. Since politial donations are tax deductible...who was the largest single donner of the PPP...I will save you researching it...Pojaman...

This clan need to be gone and eliminate the gene pool.

Today I canceled my flight on NW...had business class tickets for me and my wife...Dec 15 returning Jan 10.

Reason.....Pojaman....I do not think people realize the trouble that is brewing if she takes over the new party. Her return is the absolute worst thing that could have happened at this time.

There is absolutely no assurance we will not be in a major political war or Coup by early next year.

I have been around Thailand for almost 25 years, and have seen a lot...my wife owns 3 farms and some resort property, so we do have substantial ties to the Kingdom......and certainly the current heath of HRH plays a part in this decision.

One of the thing that happened in this last 10 days that I had not seen before was a large influx of new people posting, jumping right into the fray, as though they had years of time and experience...strangely about 90% were pro Thaskin and PPP.

Just coincidence, or were we part of the Thaskin spin machine.

she never jumped bail in thailand she was already out of the country, so her bail conditions obviously included allowing her to travel, now she is back. so what did she do wrong?

amarka

Perhaps I can refresh your memory::

Arrest warrants issued for Thaksin and wife who are reportedly seeking political asylum in the UK

The Supreme Court yesterday issued arrest warrants for former premier Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife Pojaman for failing to appear for a hearing on the Ratchadaphisek land purchase case.

The arrest warrants by the court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders rendered the couple, who are now in England, "fugitives" and diplomatic hot potatoes as extradition requests from Bangkok loom.

Thaksin and his family are understood to be in the process of seeking political asylum in the United Kingdom. With Pojaman already convicted for tax fraud, and corruption trials set to start for Thaksin, the couple's claims of political persecution will become highly contentious

The Criminal Court on Thursday found the wife of ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra guilty of intentionally avoiding tax payment of Bt546 million for the transfer of 4.5-million shares of the Shinawatra Computer and Communications' shares, worth Bt738 million.

Found guilty in the same charges were her adopted brother, Bannaphot Damapong, and her secretary, Kanjanapa Honghern.

The Court sentenced Khunying Pojaman and Bannaphot to three years in jail; two years for the charges relating to the conspiracy to evade tax and one year for giving falsified statements.

Kanjanapa faces two years in jail.

The Court said the three defendants had committed serious crimes and filed false statements with government agencies to avoid paying taxes.

They intended not to pay taxes despite being rich.

Now the court on the Ratchadaphisek ultimately found her not guilt because it only has jurisdiction over person of high political office which she did not have...They also said she could be prosecuted in another court however.

Absolutely astounding that so much of Government would bow and stoop at for the wishes of a convicted felon that like most criminals appeal the convictions....until the verdict is either confirmed or reversed, she is still a convicted felon.

In a number of my post, I have pointed at how Pojaman was the real culprit...

Think about the past few months....

Somchai was supposed to be PM but the assembled MP ignored the role call, so they did not have enough present to vote him in as PM. The following day his WIFE (Thaskins sister) arrived carrying a large hand bag over her shoulder, she went in and met with the MP, and then returned home with an empty bag.....within the hour we had Somchai as PM.

The current scene, with various parties threating to join the Democrats, now Pojaman wants to attend the political meetings. Who has the deepest pockets?

Originally she was to return on the same day a Somchai from Peru...The PAD sort of messed that up.

Who can get met at an aircraft, and have a private car in the secure areas of the airport and not go through the normal immigration line.....Almost nobody....

Why would the TRT party members that are banned from politics for 5 years be waiting to meet her....(must have been bringing gifts to welcome her back??) And how did they know she was comming...(just happened to see it on TV?).

She is indeed the BLACK WIDOW. that will eat her mate when the time comes.

This Thaskin Clan will plunge Thailand into civil war if it is not exterminated.

For a few years after I married my wife, I absolutely hated the treatment she got when we went to hotels in Thailand...(There is a 30 year difference in our ages, and she was treated like a hooker by the hotels). I got in the face of more than one person over this.

She had never bothered to do the paperwork to change her ID card.

Finally I had had enough, and told her to go and change it....

A few years later we were talking about something, and she mentioned while she did not especially want to give up her family name, it has really turned out well, as now her last name is distinctively farang, and she get treated much better when she goes to shop or look at something and pull out a credit card with a distinctive Thai 1st name and a Farang last name.

One of the experts here said Swamppy was on the way of being built and not Khun Thaksin's credit.

To those experts: If Khun Thaksin had not done anything for Thailand, do you think Thai people would have been that stupid to vote for him twice?

As it has been shown.....not without corruption and money.....

[

Highly unlikely, but what IF and I believe highly unlikely, a pardon was granted to Pojamarn on HRH King's birthday!

Highly unlikely, if we remember Thaskins words about Pojaman....she is my pardner, and closest adviser. With the amount of anti-Monarch rhetoric the Shinawatra clan has partaken in, certainly does not endear them to the Monarch.

It was Pojaman family money that helped build Thaskins empire, and like Somchai's wife, both are like female black widow spiders.....

attract the mail, get there desires filled, and then kill them....

I would be truly shocked if a pardon was granted.

like i said, you're missing the wider point. thaksin is one man, remove him from the equation, someone similar steps in. meet the new boss, same as the old boss. for all his machinations in or out of office, he's still just a figurehead of a politician who used what weapons he had. i'm not defending him and have no love at all for him, just saying that the wider issue is corruption and greed in thai politics in general, thaksin alone isn't to blame for that.

If we look carefully at this, and I do agree, that it is a cultural problem of corruption in Thailand.

1. For the 1st time put these people in jail.

2. The courts finally seem to be activist, and will to do so.

If somebody Like Thaskin and Pojaman, were placed in jail, then the rest of the cases against him and his clan could continue. They are stalled at this time, because he cannot be brought before the court to hear the charges....(a requirement in Thailand).

Pulling down this corrupt family, would really give a different look to those that think if you have money, you can do anything.

If there are no real penalties for corruption, why change?

This is why I take such strong opinions against minimizing Thaskin and Pojamans actions.

I would thing Thai Airlines should send PAD a check for the favor......

Seems like last time I heard, Thai was loosing money....

So by stopping all operations, they stopped the flying of aircraft that were loosing money...hence saving Thai money

From the Bangkok Post;

"Police have begun to check on the finances of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) and will launch legal action should any criminal accusations be filed against the group's leaders".

I would hope that they follow through with the follow the money plan. I would guess that some naive farangs will be unpleasantly surprised.

Well I would like to see that as well. My wife took quite a bit of her money and donated to PAD>..

Course it is her money not mine, but it will show up with my Farang last name....

When I have asked her how much she sent, she just replies .....not enough...they not fix the window at ASTV yet. Maybe I send a few thousand baht more.

Boy I wish people were forced to have a small amount of Thai educations before being allows to post crap like above...

The PAD never did aspire to rule, only challenge the corruption in Thailand. Thaskin with his control of the media, his blood lust in the south, brought corruption to it's highest form...

I applaud a group of people that donated time and money to stop it from going any further.

and i wish people would stop making out that the root problem is thaksin when it's far wider and more systemic than one greedy bloke who happens to be unpopular with the cognoscenti in the south.

i don't applaud anybody who brings a country to a standstill to suit their own selfish and unelected ideals. still, what patriots eh?

So the stopping of the country for a few days is catastrophic?? I think not

Thaskin is indeed the root of the problem. If he and his wife were today sitting in Jail as justice has proscribed, none of the protest would have happened..

Thaskin and Pojaman were not content to just have ordinary corruption that has been the norm. IT was when they started to manipulate things to get the Monarchy out of the way, that it unleashed this patriotic wave that became the PAD movement.

Look at the post conviction manipulations of Thaskin:

1. Campaigned for getting his Brother-in_law as PM

2. Numerous trips by PPP members to consult with Thaskin about what to do

3. Pojaman tried to get back into the country to free up the money to bribe who ever needed to be bribed. (Fortuatly the Judges accepted her appeal but denied bail....as she has skipped out on bail before.)

4. Setting up the new party,,,,maneuvering to get his younger sister, or another relative to head this party

5. Condemning the courts, the King, and the British government as being corrupt....every body is wrong but him...(now what does that sound like)

etc etc.

If Thaskin and Pojaman were to disappear tomorrow, (sort of like he made a lot of people disapear during his term in office) things would be a lot better for Thailand.

No I do not jest.....

While opening up the Issan region to politic was a good thing, and myself being married to an Issan woman for the past 13 years, I do have some insight into the feeling in the region.

Look through the results of the last few elections, and the number of career politicians that are now banned. Why? Basically vote buying in Issan.

The absolute worst fights I have had with my relatives has been over try to make them understand it is not OK to take a few baht for a vote...it will effect them.

The you also ignore the rural areas of the south....very strongly PAD/

The fact that Thai TV is completely controlled by the government, and any person that tries to show government corruption is fired, or worst they just disappear....

If we had free press, radio, and TV so even the Issan Thai could hear all sides of the argument, then a democratic vote would be worthwhile, as it is, the politicians still have not learned that they cannot buy votes for a few baht.

The Bangkok "elete" yes oppose corruption, because they are the one that feel it the most. They are also the economic engine of Thailand..

While many dis pare the attitude of depriving every person a vote, if the person is not informed, and cannot even hear the arguments, how can they vote with any modicum of knowledge?

In history it will show the PAD protesters to be the true patriots and hero's of Thailand.

horsesh*t. history will show them to be a drop in the ocean, a scratch of the surface, another self-promoting bunch of jackanapes who wanted to be the ones in charge of the knife and slicing up the pie. thailand's political problems are far, far bigger than the PAD, the PPP and even the supposedly devilish thaksin. cultural, intellectual and social revolution and maturity required before thailand can ever proceed to dealing with its political palaver.

Boy I wish people were forced to have a small amount of Thai educations before being allows to post crap like above...

The PAD never did aspire to rule, only challenge the corruption in Thailand. Thaskin with his control of the media, his blood lust in the south, brought corruption to it's highest form...

I applaud a group of people that donated time and money to stop it from going any further.

Congrats for working the spin there. Vandalism? Criminal Mischief, Contempt of Court, (There was an appeal of the court order to leave --), Extortion?

None of which did they do that I can ascertain.

They did cause financial damage, not sure if it was less or more than the alternatives not to mention less or more than caused by Thaksin (the real issue here)

But it is really good spin! Some people that cannot think critically MIGHT believe it!

Spin? The only one spinning here is you. That's your excuse? Blame it on Thaksin? Hello? Mr. Thaksin was not at the airport. He was in Hong Kong. Why didn't PAD go after him there? Oh wait, was it was because they would have been tossed in jail if they tried it there?

Not hardly....I love your spin but will answer each alligation with the true facts.

What's next, blaming the hundreds of thousands of innocent travelers for the crisis? The only thing here "critical" is your position. Let's review shall we

Contempt of Court:

I'll start with a PAD sympathetic news source so you can't accuse me of using a biased report ok?

Thai court orders protesters to leave airports (Source: The Nation 27-Nov-2008) Thailand's Civil Court on Thursday issued an injunction to order 13 leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) to lead protesters out of the Don Muang Airport immediately. The court ruled in favour of the AOT Plc that the occupation of the airport by the protesters affected the constitutional rights of the public to receive air transport service as well as affecting their liberty to travel.Earlier, the court also ordered PAD and its supporters to leave the Suvarnabhumi International Airport.Despite the court order, PAD protesters refused to leave, vowing to continue to occupy the airport despite the injunction.Sirichai Maingarm, a PAD leader, said the PAD would continue to occupy the airport until the government resigns.

What part of court injunction do you not understand? The part that you failed to list in your court order, was the Court lifted the injunction after the PAD appealed the injunction.....so there was no in junction in effect until the appeal is heard sometime in Jan.

Extortion: The use, or the express or implicit threat of the use, of violence or other criminal means to cause harm to person, reputation, or property as a means to obtain property from someone else with his consent. The threat of violence was used to seize the airport from the AoT. As well thousands of passengers were forced to flee fearing for their personal safety.

Nobody was "FORCED" to flee, to the contrary there are a number of pictures of tourist staying and enjoying the music, and putting on head bands, stating in Thai.."WE fight for the King" I hardly think filling up the passanger arrival area, with a bunch of middle age women wearing yellow shirts, and waving happy clappers was to terrifying.

Vandalism: The intentional destruction of property is popularly referred to as vandalism. It includes behavior such as breaking windows, slashing tires, spray painting a wall with graffiti, and destroying a computer system. Vandalism is a malicious act and may reflect personal ill will, although the perpetrators need not know their victim to commit vandalism. As soon as the PAD protestors spray painted slogans, slashed police vehicle tires, started rifling through drawers and erecting barriers, vandalism too occurred.

Again, look at the videos, no tires were slashed, however they did remove some valve stems and let the air out, you cannot find any graffiti signs at the airport, erecting barriers to prevent bombs being lobed into the protesters, is hardly vandalism.

[i]The Bangkok Post (Reporting by Nopporn Wong-Anan) said masked members of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) invaded the control tower at Suvarnabhumi airport, a day after they stormed the main terminal, prompting airlines to cancel flights.[/i] When the doors were forced to the airport tower, when secure areas of the airport were breached, multiple acts of criminal trespass occurred. The breaking in to the tower was "forcible entry", and no different than burglary in respect to the intent.

1st your source is not a neutral source, 2nd there were 3 PAD members that were escorted by the AOT to the control tower. Stayed for less than 15 minutes and left. As you might notice, (I would certainly expect you to print), when the AOT decided on Monday to resume operation of cargo operations, it began immeadately, without delay, how could this have happened if the security was so "breached.."

The other secure areas where the duty free areas were, no protesters were allowed to enter. These were guarded by PAD so no theft of vandlism could take place. The AOT president thanked the PAD for keeping the airport without damage and cleaner than when they came to protest.

At least you recognize that there was serious financial injury sustained by millions of people. For example, The ThaiIndian News (2-Dec-2008) service has used the number provided by industry sources and appearing in other wire service reports and states that Daily losses due to cargo disruption was estimated at $86 million USD per day

Considering the losses incurred by Thailand and others, plus the losses to come, your attempt to gloss over these losses as "less" than what you believe were undertaken by Mr. Thaksin or the "alternatives", it really is you spinning,

The protest was necessary to protect Thailand and prevent the imposing of a Thaskin dynasty, and basically revoking the Monarchy. The Constitution was about to be changed to enable this by what we now have definitive proof was a corrupt government. The losses that are claimed, are way over blown, as while the gross number make a nice headline, is the money truly lost, or is it simply delayed?

I will also take this opportunity to point out that your opinions seem to be more predicated on emotion than fact. When I posted on another thread about the inability for people to access HIV prevention and treatment, you were vociferous in your howls of protest. 48 hours later when the Thai director of infectious disease made that same statement, you never reappeared to retract your position. You might want to get out of the quicksand now.

A minor concern about these people, lack of treatment for how many days.....lets see, the airport was shut for 8 days, and you want me to believe Bangkok has less than a week supply of treatment drugs...and also the people do not need daily treatment....way over blown bleeding heard hyperbole..

In history it will show the PAD protesters to be the true patriots and hero's of Thailand.

BTW, to resume normal operations for passenger traffic, the airport must be certified.

Love these pseudo neubie experts:::

The certification is mainly done concerning the approach/departure/airport lighting...There is absolutely no difference in this certification between freight and passenger operations.

The Freight operations are currently in operation.

Lastly, who de-certified the airport??

I speak as a person with over 40 years of experience in civil aviation throughout the world.

Care to math qualifications.???

and as his amplifying words REPEATED again today in the above quote... "at least a week"

of course, it's up to the individual traveler to trust whether or not a complete and thorough check and clearance is done of all systems within 48 hours... as these people in control are all fully trustworthy when the issue of public safety is raised.

You know I love the howl of ignorant voices......and those taking things our of context.

Let the actions speak for them selves.....

1. The tower and freight operations are in full operation at this time.

2. Passenger operations will start tomorrow mid day. (Allow time to recall all employees)

3. The airport will be back a normal capacity within a week...due to getting the flight schedules back in sync. through out the world.

Almost none of this have to do with airport systems.

Airport systems....we need to bring back a few luggage scanners that were moved to Utopo, Immigration computers need to be re-booted, the air traffic control is in operation....the duty free will want to do a stock check. Absolutly nothing that will take more than a few hours at the most...

I know all you newbies that have flooded the board with your "expertise" and anti PAD rhetorical BS. love to burn up bandwith, but all you are is a lot of noise.....The facts will be in the actions.

What is the word coming from the stage?

The word coming from the stage about 1 hour ago was "Plan on leaving this evening".

Then there was a long explanation about the law and how all the Court ruling worked.

@ow I don't doubt what you're saying. Just seems inexplicable that their own website would be reporting they "are to remain at Don Muang and Suvarnabhumi airports even after the court has ruled to disband the People Power party." I'm not in a position to have a look at ASTV at the moment. What are they saying right now?

OK I went back in and listened....right now they are saying if you don't want to go home you don't have too. Tonight have the meeting of the 5 PAD leaders. That Somchai had made a list 2 days ago for the people to take over the government. That for the past year this government has not done good for the people of Thailand. We cannot let this government continue. They say they have to wait to see what the 5 leaders say...we have come a long way, and we won, but this is the last battle and we must make it a change, and eliminate Thaskin and his group...we have come a long way...

(on and on)

My wife thinks they will stay...if something happens to the protest a lot of local Bangkok people will come out besides, they saw the moon smile last night....(how can you argue with logic like that.)