erobando

Today I was able to book the 0THB ticket BKK to HCMC, but the return was 999THB.

I was able to get 0THB tix on both legs BKK to HK when AirAsia offered free tix in mid-Nov.

If you can't find a good flight deal now and you're flexible on your dates, wait until AirAsia has their next promotion.

Then again, AirAsia's fares are pretty cheap even when they're not "free".

The right-wing extremists are already busy discounting the truthful article by Ehrlich. They just can't stand to hear the truth. They'll start quoting the Bangkok Post and Nation pretty quick in rebuttal.

The Nation and Bangkok Post are right wing extremist newspapers?!?

Not exactly, but they tow the army propaganda line pretty tight. That's why the PAD supporters always sound like Fox News boys and detest any news that comes uncensored from outside of Thailand.

Neither paper is perfect, certainly.

But I'm not sure that foreign news sources do a better job, either.

They tend to oversimplify things and incorrectly frame information in political constructs (e.g., Left v Right) that westerners are familiar with.

The right-wing extremists are already busy discounting the truthful article by Ehrlich. They just can't stand to hear the truth. They'll start quoting the Bangkok Post and Nation pretty quick in rebuttal.

The Nation and Bangkok Post are right wing extremist newspapers?!?

Can say the same about your average worker in middle America vs NY

or other major city players in much the same way.

Those that create jobs employ those that need them.

Cities attract those that create jobs and by extension

the distribution networks to deliver products

AND many of those wanting jobs.

Worked much the same in any social system left or right,

no matter what political patina was overlaid..

My point exactly!

Maybe a stupid time to come out with a statement like this, but it is in fact the truth.

Cheers, Rick

Actually, you can't make the same type of statement about the US.

The people who are "servants" to NYC are usually either New Yorkers or recent immigrants. People don't move from the suburbs or middle America to find working class jobs in NYC.

And the "masters" aren't always native New Yorkers, either.

A person could, for example, come from Ohio, go to university at Duke, get a Wall Street job and move up from there.

for those that want to believe the PAD airport had very little effect on tourism: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Free-Tickets...nd-t230085.html

why does AirAsia see it different? but what do they know, its not like they are a major airline with allot invested in the thailand tourism industry

Air Asia regularly offers such deals.

Prior to airport closing, I bought 0THB tix BKK to Hong Kong... well, 0THB plus taxes and fees.

Long-Term Effects = Important

One-Off Occurance with No Long-Term Effect = Meaningless

Long-term Effects and Short Term Effects are both really important, thoses Thai's that looses there job and can't feed there family this season is not important?

People can't feed families bc of short term effects? Then those businesses weren't very strong to begin with.

If it's a long-term loss in jobs, it's a long term effect.

"The people of the north East are the servants of Bangkok people"

In my experience I think that this statement is absolutely correct. The Bangkok business owners make money from farmers in the North East. The people in the North East constitute the biggest rice exporter in the world. (Who makes the profit)? Most of the people doing unskilled work in Bangkok are from the North East.

Where is the problem in that statement?

Cheers, Rick

Can say the same about your average worker in middle America vs NY

or other major city players in much the same way.

Those that create jobs employ those that need them.

Cities attract those that create jobs and by extension

the distribution networks to deliver products

AND many of those wanting jobs.

Worked much the same in any social system left or right,

no matter what political patina was overlaid..

This is poor quote, I don't think it can spun in a positive light.

At best, maybe it was a poor translation into English.

In developed countries, wealth is more spread out and there more locations of business centers.

Plus more opportunities for economic advancement.

I think that Abhisits biggest problem will be his own sense of right and wrong.

This because he is an educated man from a true western democracy.

Deep down inside he will know that he is basically a phoney.

He will know that he wasn't put in power as a result of free and fair elections by the people.

He will know he has no mandate from the people to govern, only a mandate from the military and elite via a coup.

And because he was educated in a western democracy he knows those same western democracies also know he's a phoney.

I think this will pray on him and he will do the right and proper thing and hold elections to try to legitimise his premiership.

He's won his MP seat numerous times already.

He wouldn't lose it with new elections.

Here's a fact you won't find anywhere else.

In thirties Germany there was a group of industrialists and donors who named themselves

"Friends of the Reichsfuhrer-SS"

and they funded Herr Himmler, without wanting to be directly linked to him functionally.

Nothing more than a political re-surfacing of the "Friends of..." moniker after many years.....strange.

It's common knowledge.

How is it not found anywhere else?

It is all good news. The worlds media has called Abhisit and his cronies for what they are. Un-elected, un-democratic, manipulative, fascists.

The World owns a media now?

The media of the world. It would have been World's media to mean what you think. It's called an Apostrophe and it's something you learn about in SCHOOLS!

Better you stick to ASTV, its still cosy and snug in there. No reference to the idiot democrat today who stated "The people of the north East are the servants of Bangkok people"

Yes, better stick to making facile and wrong posts if I were you. Or get out and read more.

Uh, ok.

My post was more of a comment on how you're lumping all of the world's media together, as if they responded en masse to the recent developments in Thailand.

Why are you so touchy? You should relax, everything will OK.

If you don't know now, you never will!

There are no major news outlets saying anything other than this is an installed Government. It's a coup pure and simple and the "democrats" were put in power at the third attempt on the orders of the Last Coup and Constitution re-writers.

Perhaps in your quest for knowledge you should re-read many old posts from here and abroad.

It will be interesting to see what they do with an economy destroyed by PAD, a major world downturn and the PAD, Army, Banks, and big businesses all wanting their money from the trough that Sondhi holed! Add to this the relentless pressure that will now fall on his "un-fit to rule" head and it should be fun.

Chilled, and got the beer out mate. It's now up you you PADdies to defend your parties decisions whilst they last.

I'm not sure why so many people are tough on grandpaps.

He has some interesting points.

Fact: The Worldwide Economic Downturn was caused by PAD. All U Fascist PAD apologists better get yr head out of the muds. The world economy was going pretty well in 2005, then those Fascists Pigs took over the airpot.

Fact: Abhisit is Sondhi's puppet. You all saw that photo. Sondhi, aka Il Duce II, is a Fascist Dictator.

Fact: The current government is Fascist. Neither Democrats nor PTP have any real Left or Right political platform. Everyone knows a null political particle falls firmly to the Far Right = Fascism.

It is all good news. The worlds media has called Abhisit and his cronies for what they are. Un-elected, un-democratic, manipulative, fascists.

The World owns a media now?

Data can be used to draw conclusions about long-term effects of the airport closure.

For example, one could look at monthly trends in tourism number for the year before and after.

Then compare these trends to tourism numbers in other countries in the region.

If the numbers for Thailand dropped significantly more than other countries, one could then make the conclusion that the increased drop is not to the global economy.

srirachi john is simply proposing that we look at data before making conclusions about how X effected Y. This seems reasonable to me.

Data can be collected to estimate the long term effect if any is a direct result of the airport closer, but no one was arguing long term effects. The statements were made that the HUGE drop in tourism after the airport closer was a result of the closer.

Long term effect remains to be seen, but nobody was talking about long term effects in this post. People were talking about this high season NOW and a few months in the future. Nobody was talking 6+ months.

Long-Term Effects = Important

One-Off Occurance with No Long-Term Effect = Meaningless

Considering the thousands of businesses that are involved in the tourism business from one end of Thailand to the other, I'd be looking for something more than 2 businesses in one city. It will certainly take time to evaluate comprehensively, but before sweeping and unproven conclusive statements, based on a few anecdotal notes, are accepted, I think it's wise and prudent to hold off. The industry itself is capable of making these evaluations and publishing their results.

John this is simple people are saying the PAD airport closer had a negative impact on their travel related business.

You can't honestly think that closing a major international airport for days only shortly after closing smaller airports in the same country had no negative impact on the travel sector can you?

To what extent is the question and with the world economy downturn no one can say for sure... So spin away all you want but at the end of the day closing four airports in a country is bad for the travel sector.

I would think common since would lead people to this conclusion... but here you are proving me wrong

"People" are not simply saying that... they are saying that the airport closure is the overwhelming factor in the downturn in tourism.

I've never said it had no impact.

I've not spun it, I've just asked for objective findings before unproven assessments based on speculation are put forth as fact.

And you wonder why I've considered your posting obviously insincere?

A business has several new bookings coming in every day, the PAD closes the airport, the business sees a 20-30% cancelation rate, the new bookings coming in decline by over 50%... Yeh that just speculation..... The timing is just obviously kwinkydink...

Data can be used to draw conclusions about long-term effects of the airport closure.

For example, one could look at monthly trends in tourism number for the year before and after.

Then compare these trends to tourism numbers in other countries in the region.

If the numbers for Thailand dropped significantly more than other countries, one could then make the conclusion that the increased drop is not to the global economy.

srirachi john is simply proposing that we look at data before making conclusions about how X effected Y. This seems reasonable to me.

Yes, nothing wrong with the 30 Baht (or free) scheme per se.

What needs to be done is fund it better and ensure that those receiving care under the scheme get the same quality (or, at least, more equitable) treatment as those paying out of pocket.

Certainly more of a tax burden can be taken on by the middle and upper classes.

And the paying of taxes can certainly be enforced better.

Not sure how easily this can be done, bc it will take all lot changes throughout many levels of public service.

Abhisit Vejjajiva Elected New Prime Minister Of Thailand,

Elected by who? Certainly not the people

Elected by MP's, who were elected by the people.

When no Party has an absolute majority, coalitions must be formed and whatnot.

It's called a Parliamentary Zystem.

tawp thee ppp had 233 vs 167 mp's not enough for a majority but they had the first crack at forming an alliance please get your facts straight

Not enough for majority = a minority of the seats.

What facts is it that I need to check?

Let's just say a "plurality" and call it a night.

So, the Red shirts had flags of Che Guevara on them at the stadium on Saturday, eh? Why don't they just come out and say what they think? Scared little rabbits.

My wife has been saying for a while now. "They wear red , the must be communists."

oh, i think people use che guevara out of political context.

PAD supporters had images of che, too.

I agree with this post, almost entirely.

The difference being that Bkk is the money centre, and thus I see it as class based; The rich Bkk folk tring to keep all the cash. The south is harder to explain, I doubt if I'm able, thus I won't attempt to other than to say that Thaksin's awful heavy-handed attempt to manage the situation drew much hatred from them, which I can fully understand.

Definitely BKK is the money center and generally support the existing power network.

The reason I don't think of it as a class struggle is because the main objections to TRT/PPP/PTP aren't about the initial populist policies or how money is distributed.

They primarily have been about Thaksin himself; what was perceived as using the PM-ship to advance his own business interests and trying to consolidate his power by creating his own power network.

That's true, it must be! Look how much happier and peaceful the South has been since Thaksin was ousted by the right wing military coup. Have you heard of any bombings or terrorist activity since then?

I'm not sure I understand this post.

I brought up the South because it's mostly rural and still votes Democratic.

And South doesn't only mean the 3 or 4 provinces with the terrorist activity.

Thaksin (to avoid your moronic misuse of his name) was elected, re-elected and would be re-elected to morrow if the Junta hadn't stepped in.

Yes, he'd likely be able to regain his seat in Chiang Mai.

I think everybody would agree on that.

It's a solid point though, & begs the question; why would they vote him back in? Are they stupid or do they know something.

I'd suggest that they are not stupid, and even if they were they are the masses and should be respected.

I don't think TRT/PPP/PTP voters are stupid, nor do I think Democratic voters in the South are stupid.

My reply to grandpops was more to the point that of this being regional.

The Democratic party has a long history in the South; I think Thaksin knew it would be hard to gain support there (compared to say, Isaan).

I think it would have been great if the TRT/PPP/PTP really became a left of center party that devoloped ongoing policies that helped developing areas throughout Thailand.

But that plan seemed to have run its course... and it's back at square one with individual instead of ideological politics.

Thaksin (to avoid your moronic misuse of his name) was elected, re-elected and would be re-elected to morrow if the Junta hadn't stepped in.

Yes, he'd likely be able to regain his seat in Chiang Mai.

I think everybody would agree on that.

I didn't say it was, you seem to have misinterpreted.

I explained how accepting that Thailand (or Asia) has a patronage system, and that's different from western democracies, thus Thailand will have a 'Thiastyle' democracy - is very dangerous. All under-deveoped democratic systems (west or east, north or south)are patronage systems. Thailand / Asia is not unique, this is a ploy to stop democracy growing, that's all.

I see it as a class struggle rather than a party politics struggle, hence why I mentioned PAD, who, as I'm sure you are aware are not actually a political party, but rather a very complex social pressure group.

To make it easier for you to understand: party politcs and social development are tightly wound together in Thailand (everywhere?). To understand one you must have an understanding of the other. Your attempt to singularly analyse it in a politcal form is deeply error ladden, in my opinion.

Using terms like 'Thaistyle democracy', 'Thaistyle law' and 'Thaistyle coup" is foolish and wrong. It's a technique used by powermongers here (on all sides) to empower themselves at the expense of the populous. Thaksin does it, the army does it and PAD does it a lot. The concepts of democracy, law and coups are the same in Thailand, England or Outer Mongolia.

I don't think people who describe the currently Thai political system as a patronage system mean that it will always be that way.

Most use the term in a negative sense and hope that this will change eventually... even if it takes a while or won't happen until the old garde polititians from all parties leave the scene.

I don't see how this is a class issue.

It's more regional if anything. North and Isaan support Thaksin, Bangkok and the South don't.

At first Thaksin the used terminology of ideological party politics but it quickly became apparent that the only thing he did different was try to replace the existing power network with his own.

So the fight became about which network is in charge. But neither network represents the interests of a particular class v another.

I agree that a bunch of meaningless terms are being tossed around by all groups: "democracy" and "the People" seem to be the most frequently used.

Ideology vrs Patronage is the biggest difference between political party systems in the "West" vrs the "East". Which is why applying concepts of "western style" democracy are doomed to fail. Each country needs to find its own way.

Actually the whole experience of the last few months will, I believe, turn out to be a great moment of growth for the country, when we look back on it many years from now.

What does Ideology vs Patronage mean? People of all types and colours have ideals, dreams, beliefs... People of all types and colours try to get power, control, compliance from/over others... Perhaps it was just a poor choice of wording, but I see the whole concept of doing it 'Thaistyle' as a repulsive bag of worms.

PAD are against this idea - 'the poor are too stupid to vote', 'Thailand is not ready for democracy', 'the government should be prodominantly appointed'.

It's basically Ideology vs Ideology.

PAD Ideology - I know better than you, so I WILL decide.

populous Ideology - hang on a minute, we have dreams too, we just want equal chances, we work hard, we have families, why are we not allowed the things you have?

Another overreaction to jbowman's post.

The post wasn't necessarily justifying Patronage politics.

"Applying" concepts of western-style democracy refers to erroneous attempts to try to understand current Thai politics in terms of western concepts of left v right or rural poor v urban elite.

No Thai Party has an ideology so people essentially vote for individuals who join a party for personal interests.

If there was a left v right struggle, there would be actual policy differences between the parties. But there aren't really any.

And if it was really rural poor v urban elite, TRT/PPP/PTP would have a lot more support in the South.

Instead, it is all individual-based.

I took jbowman's post as statement about the current Thai political system; I didn't read any mention of PAD or its supposed goals.

Ideology vrs Patronage is the biggest difference between political party systems in the "West" vrs the "East". Which is why applying concepts of "western style" democracy are doomed to fail. Each country needs to find its own way.

Actually the whole experience of the last few months will, I believe, turn out to be a great moment of growth for the country, when we look back on it many years from now.

Wow

Talk about trying to put the best face on a bad situation.

Funny how Japan can do democracy.

India can do it too.

I think they are in what you would call 'THE EAST".

So that seems to make that argument pretty lame. (Weak)

The military and the Police refusing to protect an elected government is a High point? How about a court put in by the last military junta using its power under a constitution put in by the same military junta, to over throw a democratically elected government. You see that as a move toward democracy? I think it was just a new way to do a coup that would make the world not notice as much.

But ok--we can all disagree. I am sure you wanted the old style government here and sure do not want people in Issan taking control. Why is it you in bangkok use secret codes for what you really think and want. You do not want people in Issan to have a strong say in who runs Thailand and you do not care how many votes they cast or how many elections their people win.

I would respect your view a lot more if you were honest and told us why it is that your view is best for Thailand. I am sure you might have an argument there. But this nonsense about Thai style democracy and East and West is laughable.

Korea has a democracy. Japan, India, and so on and so on also have democracy and they are Asian nations.

Why is the Elite in Bangkok care so little for the poor of Issan? You are making them very very angry. It would be best to stop ruling them as if they are all peasants to work for you like slaves.

Time to leave the 19th century behind and move forward Thailand.

IMO you're overreacting a bit to jbowman's post.

The post did not state "High Point" or claim that any particular group was justified in its actions.

Perhaps by stating it could "turn out to be a great moment of growth for the country" means that the "experience" (actions by all, right or wrong) might eventually pave the way for a more effective means of government in Thailand since (e.g., the eventual formation of true political parties instead individual power battles).

Don't understand the last paragraph. jbowman's post didn't mention Isaan or any region at all.