TheChiefJustice

I have an expired passport with my O Class Visa inside.. a new passport with no Visa.. Iam told by my reasonably efficient immigration agent - I must allocate two days in Thailan to have the Visa transferred from the old expired passort to the new one... even showing the note below to the immigration officer when arriving at Suvanrabhumi - she stamped my new passport with a 30 day visa on arrival ( I specifically asked then for a OClass visa endorsement and had filled the Visa number out on my arrival card ... Immigration at Chang Wattana rejected the transfer process .. and I had to leave the country again to get an O class visa entry stamp.. again the same thing happened ... it looks like now my O class Visa will expire and I have to go through the whole process again from application single entry one month O class approval process, one year extension and then multiple entry endorsement. Maybe it had something to do with the article I wrote in the Bangkok post business section on Wed 29Feb being harsh on the immigration queues.

For Thais...

Note in Thai for the immigration officer is...

เรียน เจ้าหน้าที่ตรวจคนเข้าเมือง สำหรับการเข้าออกของ คุณ คริสโตเฟอร์ แคทโต้ สมิธ

ตราประทับวีซ่าบนหนังสือเดินทางจะต้องเป็นประเภท Non O ตามที่หนังสือเดินทางเล่ม

เก่าระบุไว้นะคะ รบกวนแจ้งให้คุณคริส แสดงหนังสือเดินทางทั้งเล่มเก่าและใหม่เพื่อตรวจสอบ

ได้ค่ะ (การเดินทาง 2 ครั้งล่าสุดเจ้าหน้าที่ประทับตราให้ผิดค่ะ)

you can show the above note in Thai to the officer when you leave for Vietnam and

when you return to Bangkok.

You may have an issue showing the above Thai note to the Immigration Officer if your name is not Christopher Smith.

Angry - I understand that you are worried about your family. However, I do not think that flogging this now very dead horse is doing you any good. We have learned from this thread several things. First, you are not currently eligible to apply for Thai citizenship. Secondly, according to the Special Branch as well as anecdotal evidence very few farang males apply for Thai citizenship. Thirdly, some farang males who apply for Thai citizenship get approved - but none of us know the percentage approved against those who apply. That's it in a nutshell really.

So, my dear man, my advice to you is to try to occupy your mind with happy thoughts. Take your wife and son for a little vacation this long-weekend and enjoy your time together. Go and see a movie. Read a good book. Have fun teaching your students. There are many things we can do to enjoy ourselves. Do whatever makes you happy. Don't give your attention to the things that make you upset and things will get better. A positive attitude is a wonderful gift.

Sure there aren't that many, but did it ever occur to you that not many apply to begin with? That Thai citizenship is simply not high on the agenda for most western passport holders?

This is correct. My conversations with the Special Branch confirm that there are very few farangs who apply. On the day that I attended my interview at the Interior Ministry there were about 150 applicants there for the interview. Out of that number, I was one of only two farangs.

Taking your example, 2 farangs on that day and around 250 working days a year = around 500 farangs apply per year! However, only 6 get approved per year?

Even, if one assumed for every 5 working days that only 1 day per week is like your day, that still means 100 apply and only 6 get approved. Huge variance between those that apply and those that get it.

Good to hear you were one of the lucky ones however, I have lost a lot of hope.

Angry - The Ministry of Interior does not interview every day. Lol. They interview in batches, usually two or three times a year. 2x3 = 6. The End

Sure there aren't that many, but did it ever occur to you that not many apply to begin with? That Thai citizenship is simply not high on the agenda for most western passport holders?

This is correct. My conversations with the Special Branch confirm that there are very few farangs who apply. On the day that I attended my interview at the Interior Ministry there were about 150 applicants there for the interview. Out of that number, I was one of only two farangs.

AngryParent - My application for citizenship was approved in July 2011. I am not Chinese. I am not rich. I was simply qualified based on my situation. I put in my application in 2007, waited, sought updates at to the status of my application regularly, and that is that. I know that there were two other farang males who were also approved in the same batch as me.

You are definitely not eligible. I just called the Special Branch to check. You need to have a salary of THB 40,000 per month. Also, your letter from your employer showing your yearly salary needs to match the annual salary figure shown on your latest tax return. There are no exceptions for the THB 40,000 requirement for a foreign man married to a Thai.

So, I think that it is all over for you as far as citizenship goes. Best to just forget about it and move on to other things to secure your future and that of your wife and son. Your energies are better spent elsewhere.

But do you actually have your ID card yet? 4 yrs does seem quick compared with other applications, and from the document listed on their website, there are still several more steps in the process

Hi Time Traveller. No, I do not have my ID card yet. I am awaiting His Majesty's signature then official publication in the Gazette. Anywhere from another 6 to 12 months before I actually receive my ID card, I would say. But the "black hole" part of the process is over and the remainder is merely formality.

@ CJ

Congratulations and well done, you give us all hope.

Thank you very much, ludditeman. I should point out, just for clarification purposes, that I am neither rich nor a criminal.

Congratulations CJ. That does not seem too long in the whole scheme of things.

Thank you, Garry. I agree. In the scheme of things four years is not too long at all. There are some that have had to wait a great deal longer so I am an happy that it came through so quickly.

I recently received my approval. Yes, there is a process that one must go through and, yes, it does take time.

I know that the time from application to notification of approval can vary from one applicant to the next, from one Minister of the Interior to the next, but it would interest me and probably also other members to hear how long it took in your case.

Hi Maestro - thank you for asking. The relevant timeframe for my citizenship application/approval process was as follows:

May 2007 - Lodge application with Special Branch

August 2007 - Special Branch Interview

November 2007 - Interview (at my office) from the Thai equivalent of the FBI

August 2008 - Interior Ministry interview

July 2011 - Application approved by Interior Minister

Cheers,

CJ

Well, I did call and it appears Samran and you are wrong. However, the people are friendly.

1. Need to have your name on a housebook.

2. Need a salary of over 40,000 a month - not a single govt. school in Thailand pays that! So, all those poor idiots like me that have given years to Thai kids in Thai govt. schools are losers!

A sad day indeed.

For those who can read Thai or can use google Translate the website is http://www.sbpolice.go.th/ and it is the 3rd box down on the left side that has Thai with a tick mark.

As I said, seeking information from the Special Branch with respect to citizenship issues is the best course of action. At least now you know where you stand and no longer need to wonder. I have always found the people there to be very friendly.

What is your actual question....CAN you become a Thai citizen?

The amswer is

YES you CAN, but only IF you meet the requirements and

ARE allowed to apply and then

ARE selected for approval and then

ARE approved and then

WAIT long enough for all the required signatures/approvals

But it's a matter of years to get it all done.

So your actual chances are virtually nil.

I recently received my approval. Yes, there is a process that one must go through and, yes, it does take time. But saying that one's chances are virtually nil is utter rubbish. These sorts of ill-informed conclusions are yet another reason not to listen to anyone on this board who does not have direct personal experience of the process and to speak to the nice people at the Special Branch of the Royal Thai Police.

Can I ask you one very serious question?

Why is one of the big law firms, that advertises here, telling me that I must apply for Permanent Residence - even though they have the same story this forum has (and this forum has concluded otherwise)?

May I make a suggestion? Instead of trying to determine who is right or wrong, or why this person says one thing and other says that, perhaps you might do as Samran and I have suggested and contact the Special Branch of the Royal Thai Police who are in charge of the citizenship application process.

If you cannot come to Bangkok, you can always have someone telephone them for you. The direct telephone number for you to call is (02) 252-1714.

I have nothing else to say on the matter.

I agree with Samran. Visit the police at the Special Branch and they will tell you then and there if you are eligible. Based on the information you have provided, I believe that you are eligible to apply.

4. Is it necessary to renounce existing nationality in order to obtain Thai nationality?

However, new ministerial guidelines issued in 2009 require those naturalising as Thais to provide a declaration attested by their embassies of their intent to renounce their existing nationality on being approved for Thai nationality. Once Thai nationality has been approved, the Interior Ministry will inform the applicant's embassy, under the latest regulation.

I guess I will soon find out if this is the case. I was informed by the Special Branch in mid-August that my citizenship application was approved by the previous Interior Minister.

Currently, I am awaiting His Majesty's approval before being formally published in the Gazette. To date nothing has ever been mentioned about any requirement to provide a declaration of my intention to renounce my existing nationality. I hope it stays that way. I will keep you updated.

Good luck samran, I am sure when they see the reasons for your wifes inability to travel they will understand, and good to hear that postponing it won't see your application cancelled

Wasn't a problem at all. Sent a fax letter to them from Australia, all done in nice 'official Thai'. Spoke to the special branch member who was handling our case and he said 'no problem for tomorrow (ie the MOI interview), when you return to Thailand, let me know".

And that was that....

Great news, Samran. I knew it would not be an issue.

We really can't make it back, and there are very good reasons for it which will be outlined in the letter I'm in the process of writing. Don't believe it is the end of the world, another TV member Chatalette (I think) was in a similar position and eventually got it.

Importantly we aren't in a rush, so it can wait.

I think it should be fine if you have a valid explanation. Also, not being in a rush is a blessing as far as waiting for citizenship is concerned.

I am not in a rush either - although I do sometimes wish that things would move faster. I had my Interior Ministry Interview 3 years ago and have not heard a peep. It has now been almost 5 years since my application was submitted. Glad I'm not the impatient type!!

There are many foreign models in Thailand. None of them have work permits. Technically, you need a work permit. In reality, nobody does and nobody cares. My advice to you is simple. Give it a shot. COme over, have some fun, get some work and see how it goes. The agencies will guide you. Ignore the OMG ARE YOU CRAZY crowd. Live a little!

A small update on my citizenship application.

I just called the Ministry of Interior to find out the status. I had my interview in 2008.

I was told that my application has now gone back for a third time to check on criminal records, drug offences etc. I was told that every time a new minister comes in, he asks that all outstanding applications be reviewed again.

So, there is no end in sight to this never-ending wait, I'm afraid.

Dear Chief Justice,

Any updates regarding your lodged application????? Its been 3 years now.

I lodged my application with the Special Branch in May 2007 and had my interview with the Ministry of Interior in July 2008. Not a peep since my Ministry interview. So, all up, my application has been in for two years. I am hoping to get a positive response this year - but whether or not I do is another matter entirely.

The wait is vexing to say the least.

Any update, my friend

Still nothing, I'm afraid. However, I will try my best to get it this year by having people pester the Ministry on my behalf on a regular basis. I also have certain people trying to help me but as yet to no avail. I shall keep you informed.

Thank you, Zoowatch, for your very interesting post. I think it makes a lot of sense. I particularly like the fact that there would be a set period in which a decision would be made. That is something now lacking.

The only two issues for citizenship that I would disagree with are the 10 year PR requirement and the renunciation of other citizenship. 10 years is, in my view, too long. I think a period of 5 years would be sufficient, as it is currently. Also, I think that renunciation of original citizenship would cause most people not to apply. Hopefully, that is not the intention.

Please have a word to your friends about my application, which has been awaiting the Minister's signature for three and a half years! Luckily, I am very patient! ;-)

I don't think we were at the same interview session. If I remember correctly, mine was in August 2008.

As for speeding up the process, I did have one of my staff members do some lobbying on my behalf...making frequent phone calls and visits in person to the various offices, as well as asking some "phu yai" to do the same.

But who really knows what helps and what doesn't? I'm not entirely sure.

Just stick with it...if your case is like mine, just when you were about to give up hope you'll hear something.

How was your approval communicated to you? If by letter, what did it say? How long after the notification did you get your I'D card? Did you need to use the Thai name you previously registered or could you use your own name in Thdi script?

Sorry for all the questions but in my position I'm sure you understand my curiosity.

I don't think we were at the same interview session. If I remember correctly, mine was in August 2008.

As for speeding up the process, I did have one of my staff members do some lobbying on my behalf...making frequent phone calls and visits in person to the various offices, as well as asking some "phu yai" to do the same.

But who really knows what helps and what doesn't? I'm not entirely sure.

Just stick with it...if your case is like mine, just when you were about to give up hope you'll hear something.

How was your approval communicated to you? If by letter, what did it say? How long after the notification did you get your I'D card? Did you need to use the Thai name you previously registered or could you use your own name in Thai script?

Sorry for all the questions but in my position I'm sure you understand my curiosity.

Just got mine. Three years and two months, start to finish.

Richard, let me join in to congratulate you on this accomplishment!

Your recent approval gives me a glimmer of hope. I am now at 3 years and 6 months from my original application date (May 2007) and not a peep since my Interior Ministry Interview in July 2008. There were probably about 250 applicants there for the interview at the Interior Ministry in 2008, and probably, as you say, not more than 5 were farang. I wonder if you were one of them?

Did you have any assistance in speeding up the process or, like me, did you simply wait your turn to come around without trying to move things along?

Again, congratulations! Hopefully, I too, will have good news in the not-to-distant future...

Thank you, Arkady. This is what I suspected but it is good to get your input. I am now trying to use a couple of my contacts to speed the process along. We shall see - but I won't hold my breath!