oldcpu

39 minutes ago, connda said:

Really there is no "rocking the boat."  The Thai government doesn't listen to any of us men married to Thai women. 

In this case, for the sake of foreign women and Thai men who are married and live in Thailand, I hope you are right.

Still - cynic that I can be at times, ... I still think an underlying nationalistic (and possibly subconscious anti-foreigner sentiment) , if there should ever be a case of "saving face", ...  could make this an exception to your view.  Cynically I wonder if there could be one-sided listening by the government. .... worst case resulting in foreign women could be required to show limited income, much like foreign men (married to Thai women) have to show reduced income.

I say reduced as I am thinking of the 400k THB Type-O/OA non-immigrant financial requirements (for reason of foreign man married to Thai woman)  as opposed to the 800K THB Type-O/OA non-immigrant financial requirement (for reason of retirement).  ie The amount can be reduced for a foreign man (if married to a Thai woman) but not eliminated. 

.... So if the government is pushed into a 'loss of face' by too many public complaints, would a similar 400k THB requirement be applied to foreign women?   I think not - unless of course there is a LOT of publicity around such - after which, I would not want to venture nor risk the outcome, for foreign women married to Thai men.

While there is definitely an imbalance here (arguably unfair to both married Thai women and to their foreign husbands), IMHO it may be best not to 'rock the boat'.

Cynic that I am, I I suspect if this were to be addressed, the result would be to require the foreign woman to prove her income. ie I believe a Thai perception of foreigners (having wealth) would be stronger than the Thai perception in regards to a Thai men being the main bread earner in Thaliand.

This then would make life difficult for foreign women in Thailand (who have Thai husbands - unless protected by a 'grandfather' clause).

But as noted - i can be a cynic.

14 hours ago, stat said:

I used Hanse Merkur expat 5 year insurance. I did not go into extension with the OA as I was only 2 years in TH. I wondered myself that Hanse would sign the cabinet ruling certification but I got it within 24 hours as they are used to it. I can highly recommend hanse Merkur just 59 or 69€ per month and they shelled out more in the 2 years then I paid them without any problems other then it took them like 6 weeks. NB: You do have to have a residence in GER when applying.

Thanks for the recommendation.

I think thou, I will stick with my current Global Health Insurance with Cigna Europe. It does cost a LOT more than what you pay Hanse Merkur, but it has excellent coverage, and further it covers both my wife (age-57) and myself (age-70), and it is heavily subsidized as part of my pension.

.

3 hours ago, stat said:

It is my understanding that german government pension is not taxed by Germany. Did you contact Neubrandenburg Finanzamt regarding your taxation? For company pension they may be taxed according to the way they were accrued.

They sent me a letter - advising me NOT to file a tax return unless my income situation (globally) was to significantly change - they stated in the letter that was because I was a non-resident to Germany.  However if one looks at the pension amount, and the statements they provide online, it is clear there is a withhold amount.

2 hours ago, stat said:

All Emails I received so far from BOI state that ONLY remitted income remains tax free. I have asked 2 times about unremitted income and they apparently can or do not want to answer the question about unremitted income. I now asked a third time about unremitted income being tax free from thai tax.

 

Please let us know if you get an updated reply.

3 hours ago, stat said:

 

Capital gains ....

 

Many of us do NOT rely on Capital gains for our income.  I definitely do NOT.   Those that do rely on such (IMHO) need to give serious consideration as to where they live - and not just in regards to Thailand.

3 hours ago, stat said:

You can use all kind of health insurance countrywise for an OA visa like I did. You just need a signed letter from the insurance company that it is according to some thai rules cabinet decission etc. Insurance company filled it in and it was OK for the thai embassy.

May I ask (out of my curiosity) as to what (1) immigration office in Thailand, and (2) what non-Thai branch of a Health Insurance company? 

My understanding is the 'signed form' is ONLY applicable for the initial Type-OA visa application and not for the subsequent extensions. I know Phuket immigration do NOT accept that form for an extension. Instead they give one a list of Thai branches of Health Insurance companies and one MUST use one of those.

Further, my Insurance company Cigna Europe FLAT OUT REFUSED to sign that form re: Thai cabinet rules. They replied they did not know the Thai cabinet rules (even thou I provided to them both Thai language and translations to English language version of the Cabinet ruling) and they further replied they had no interest in doing so. Instead they advised I had to use their 'stock ' form.

4 hours ago, khlongtoey said:

 

4 months might be OK for the next trip

 

You could cut this up into two shorter visits.

Show up and enter Thailand Visa Exempt (currently that gives one 30-days (but it could change soon, which means this post could be soon out of date)).  The day after you arrive in Thailand go to the local immigration and apply for a 90-day type-O visa. You need to meet the Visa requirements (over age-50 + 800k THB seasoned in the bank for at least 2 months prior to your application (assuming you are applying for reason of 'retirement'). 

Nominally dependent on your immigration office location, I believe this could take up to 30 days and possibly shorter.  So it makes it a bit difficult to plan precisely.  The very day in which you receive the Type-O Visa, at the same immigration obtain a single (1000 THB) or multiple (3800 THB)) re-entry permit. This allows you to leave Thailand immediately without invalidating your Type-O visa.

Then return to Thailand about 30 days prior to your Type-O visa expiring. As soon as you get back to Thailand (with only ~30-days left in your Type-O visa's permission to stay in Thailand) go to your local immigration office and apply for a 1 year extension on the permission to stay that comes with your Type-O visa.  Again, you will need to have had the 800K THB in the bank (so simply keep the 800k THB in the bank the entire time).  Dependent on your immigration office you could receive this extension very quick or it could take the entire 30 days. 

And once you get the extension on your permission to say, immediately apply for a re-entry permit on that permission to stay extension with your type-O visa. You are then free to leave Thailand and return anytime within a year  ... just be certain to be back in Thailand one month before your 'permission to stay' in Thailand expires, so you that you have adequate time to apply for another 1-year extension on your permission to stay.

So that means only 2 months total (about 30-days per trip).   Maybe less. Maybe more.

I see such an approach mainly for those who don't plan to live in Thailand full time, but maybe only visit Thailand for 179-days or less per year.  Visiting for 179-days or less could be important for taxation related reasons (but that is something for ANOTHER thread and not this one).

Possibly with the new Visa changes coming out, there will be much superior ways to go about such an approach - and this could OUT OF DATE VERY SOON.  ... and again - it could be I made a mistake here - so if I did, I hope others will chime in and correct what I typed.

1 hour ago, khlongtoey said:

So, all this might require 4 months total in Thailand ?

 

 

Once on the 90-day type-O visa (but before obtaining the 1-year extension on the type-O's permission to stay), I suspect you could get a re-entry permit, that would allow you to leave Thailand for a portion of the 90-days.  Likely in that case, if you get the re-entry permit immediately after getting the Type-O visa, and if you then leave Thailand, you should return to Thailand after about 60-days (ie with 1 month or so left in your Type-O visa) and immediately upon returning apply for your 1-year permission to stay based on the Type-O visa.

Hopefully, if I have that incorrect, that others on the forum will correct me - but I do not believe you are required to spend 4 months total in Thailand - you do thou, need to plan your exact time in Thailand carefully to match the dates in which you will need to do things.

Back when I was on a Type-OA visa, I had a case where I forgot to do the 90 Day report before the due date.

I realized my mistake 6 days after the due date, and I showed up at the local immigration exactly one week after it was due. The volunteers who vett people coming to immigration advised me their computer system was down, and that the 90 day report could not be done on that day, and suggested I return the next day and pay the fine.

However at my request, they agreed to let me talk to an IO in the immigration office (while I was at the office), and the IO filled in some paperwork without the computer, gave me part of the paperwork,  and I was not fined and I was OK for another 90 days.

Still, I learned my lesson and I was on time for my 90 day reports from that time forward.

15 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Yes you are wrong - can be a reputable foreign company that in my case wrote a letter and sent it via email to me for the BOI stating in fact, "the unlimited hospitalization in Thailand" covered more that 50K US dollars.  The letter was accepted immediately by the BOI as was my US health insurance.

It would be helpful, I think, for BoI note on their website that such a letter (stating > $50K US coverage) is acceptable, instead of the 'stock/generic unlimited health insurance coverage' form that some Health Insurance companies provide.

42 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Yes, I was aware that government/state pensions are taxed at source in many countries. But my point was that very few will reach the 80000 USD threshold with such income. Therefore they must have other forms of pensions (or whatever) that remained untaxed while living in Thailand. The US being the exception as their citizens, wherever they live, have the duty to declare their worldwide income.

tax exempt 

 

Also, I never "structured my income", I just chose the right employers. 

My point is one need NOT reduce the "Planet to the USA" as the vast majority of us are NOT from the USA and we have already paid tax on our foreign sourced income.  I gave two EXCELLENT examples, that being Canada and Germany.  Clearly we are NOT part of "planet USA" as coined in your post but we have paid taxes elsewhere.

And as Presnock pointed out, one does not need $80K USD equivalent (for LTR-WP), but rather for obtaining the Thailand LTR-WP visa only $40K US equivalent, plus a $250K investment in Thailand (such as the ownership of a foreign freehold condo worth that much). MANY pensions do reach the $40K US$ equivalent (such as my pensions, if one adds them up and I hence I qualified for the LTR-WP, which I currently have).

Again, I believe those most concerned here are those IN A MINORITY who structured their income (either by choosing the "right" employers or by other means).  I DO CONSIDER choosing the right employer a method to 'structure one's income'. 

I also note the other group who may be concerned, are those in a minority whose country does not have a DTA with Thailand (and those without an LTR visa).

Still, I note at present time, this is ALL speculation about tax with regard to LTR visa holders. As has been posted by others, BoI when asked still maintain foreign income is NOT taxed for LTR visa holders, whether or not it is brought into Thailand.

34 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

True for on year extension of stay - but new procedures within the last decade allows conversion of a visa exempt or tourist visa entry into a non immigrant visa entry at immigration if meeting requirements and this costs 2,000 baht - during the 90 days this new visa entry is valid it can be extended for one year and continued to be extended using normal TM7 extension procedures.

Interesting ... I had not read of that.  Although rather than sit at the airport immigration to do that (after a LONG flight), I would rather do what I did, which is once I am back home in Thailand (on a visa exempt) to in the next few days head down to the local immigration office, at my leisure, and then only then apply for the Type-O visa. 

Typically, when I arrive at the Airport immigration, I am totally jet lagged and exhausted.

34 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

Your understanding is incorrect.....................obviously each Immigration may view things differently.

 

 

I know several people who have entered visa exempt and gone 'O' Visa 90 days then 12 month extension - via their local Immigration office.

You misread my post.

I noted one can not go visa exempt DIRECT to a 12 month extension.

I myself went visa exempt to a Type-O to a 12 month extension.

31 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

This is probably true if you reduce the Planet to the US. None of the EU countries taxes citizens, some tax Government pensions at source though. ...

Well - IMHO it is NOT confined to USA citizens in how this should be considered.

Canada taxes both residents AND non-residents for any income derived in Canada.  This means I pay Canadian tax on all Canadian sourced income, ... which means I pay Canadian tax on my Canadian Old Age Security, I pay Canadian tax on my Canadian Pension, and I pay Canadian tax on any interest earned from money in Canada. And that is covered by a DTA with Thailand so I do not pay double tax on that - regardless of whether I was still on a Type-O visa or on an LTR visa.

Further, Germany has a withholding tax on my German pension (ie I pay tax to Germany on German sourced income), even thou I live in Thailand.  An that also is covered by a DTA between Germany/the EU and Thailand, so again, I do not pay double tax on that.

So as I noted, I believe for many of us, for our foreign sourced income, we DO PAY TAX in the source country, and further there is a DTA agreement and we will not pay double tax.  

Possibly only those, who have managed to structure their income such they pay tax no where, might be concerned here.  And I suspect that 'lucky' group who did an excellent job of managing their income, are in the minority. ... I do fully appreciate they (this minority) need to watch this carefully and they may have some concerns.

On 6/15/2024 at 5:20 PM, khlongtoey said:

sorry to ask this, if it it is in many posts and repeat.

 

can one enter on Tourist Visas or other visas, and convert to extension of stays ?

 

and/or why do folks enter visa exempt, then do Non-Imm O's, the do the extensions vs just entering on regular tourist visas?

Further to what Rob Browder noted, my understanding is IF one is in Thailand on a Tourist Visa, or Visa Exempt (but not on a Type-O nor Type-OA non-immigrant visa) one can NOT obtain a one year extension on one's permission to stay in Thailand. 

Nominally the Type-O / OA visas are the underlying visa when going for the one-year permission to stay in Thailand extensions (for reason of retirement or for reason of marriage to a Thai).

14 hours ago, frankstraube said:

I can be wrong, but I think you cannot use a german health insurance, it has to be a Thailand based company approved by the BOI

 

I think this is mostly the case for the Type-OA non-immigrant Visa (where the Health Insurance must be from the Thai branch of a health insurance company) but not the case for the LTR visa Health insurance requirements.

16 hours ago, stat said:

How much are you guys paying for health insurance? In Germany I can get an unlimited health insurance up to 5 years for expats for around 60USD per months.

 

I have an LTR visa.  While I went the self health insurance route (to satisfy BoI), in my case I also obtain excellent subsidized Global Health Insurance from Europe (from a European organisation based in Germany) as part of my pension.  

Combining both my 'voluntary medical insurance' and my 'Long Care Insurance', I pay about 240-euros per/month out of my pension for insurance. Further the organization where I used to work (as part of my pension) also contributes about 200-euros per month for insurance.  Currently this is via Cigna Europe.  That adds up to the equivalent of about $480 US/month equivalent payment for the Insurance, where my age is 70 and my wife age 57.  This global insurance coverage is unlimited and it is very very good - for it covers both myself and my wife.

My insurance, while exceeding the Thai requirements, was not accepted even though unlimited. The insurance company documentation proof I provided did not meet the format/structure requested by Thailand. I did not realize that if I would get a letter from the Insurance company stating they exceeded the $50K US$ equivalent insurance coverage, that such a letter would be accepted by BoI.  Hence I went the Self Health Insurance route ($100k US$ equivalent savings cash in a bank savings account).  So I am currently happy with the LTR - and as an additional note, I wish that the Type-OA Visa requirements for Self Health Insurance would be as flexible as BoI is with the LTR visa Health Insurance acceptance.

Two of my good friends (both retired and 10 years older than myself) at present time always use an agent. They would agree with the "Use an Agent" items 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 9.  I note also they are very well off, so money is not an issue for them. Its all above board for them (ie 100% legal) and they in essence give the agent limited power of attorney to handle their retirement extensions on their Type-O non-immigrant visas.  

I prefer not to use an agent. I am not sure why - possibly I prefer to be in control of my own details?  Hence I suspect the "not use an agent" #3, and #9 applied to me (that is before I changed to the LTR visa - now its all a mute point).  Also at this stage of my aging life, re-investing the 800k (to make even more money than I already have) is not important to me - as earning more money simply means more tax paperwork to file - where likely I will never spend that additional money (above and beyond my current savings - where I am not likely to spend my current savings).

I think everyone is different here - and its best to go with the approach one prefers based on one's own situation.
 

I note a big change in the BoI web page on the statistics for the LTR Visa for 31-May-2024. 

Instead of reporting "Statistics of LTR Visa Qualifications - Endorsement Applies for each Category" they are now reporting "Statistics of LTR Visa - Qualifications Approve".

What does that mean precisely?  I don't know.  Is an error in the BoI web page? or has the baseline changed in how they are reporting LTR visa statistics? 

As a result, I note there is a MASSIVE monthly reduction in the numbers for LTR Visa 'total applications' in all category per the current page - presumably due to the baseline (as to how this is reported) has changed, or maybe they just made a mistake.

Possibly I missed something already reported on this forum?

Further to Liquorice's excellent post, .... if one is already in Thailand, there are Bangkok based translation services that to do all the 'leg work' (needed to be done in Bangkok) in regards to in part helping to get one's Canadian marriage (to a Thai ) registered in Thailand.

I married my Thai wife in Canada back in 2001.  In December 2020 (during COVID days), while I remained in Phuket, I had a Bangkok based translation service do the "leg work" for me in Bangkok.

From Phuket, I couriered to them (in Bangkok) the marriage documents (together with limited power of attorney to do the marriage recording paperwork - they provided the legal forms) ... and they took the marriage certificate to Canadian Embassy in Bangkok to have the marriage certificate certified, they (translation service) provided the official translation, and they (translation service) took the resultant documents to the Thailand Foreign Affairs in Bangkok to have the resulting documents legalized (?)/certified(?).   They then couriered all the documents back to me in Phuket, and my wife and I went to the local Amphoe in Phuket, and had our marriage registered, and I received the Khor Ror 22 (KR.22) which was needed by Phuket immigration for a one-year extension of my permission to stay in Thailand.

I note some ( most (?)) district immigration in Thailand may require the KR.22 to be updated yearly, to continue to prove one's marriage status, each time one goes for the annual renewal on one's permission to stay.

I found paying the translation service to do the leg work in Bangkok, saved me having to fly to Bangkok, stay in accommodations there, and do all the leg work (embassy, translation office, foreign affairs) myself. 

I have never used an agent, but in this case, having the translation service do this, made it a lot easier for me (especially given this was during COVID times).

On 6/10/2024 at 1:34 AM, expatsoon said:

I just read about many successfully converting the Retirement O to LTR visa but also just read that the Thai Government is now talking about removing the tax free status of the LTR visa.  Sorry but this is just becoming a joke now, nobody can take them seriously anymore.

I don't believe there is such a credible statement re the Thai Government removing the LTR tax benefit. My guess is at most you simply read someone else's speculation.  

I have been using the Thai line ( when accompanied by my Thai wife ) at both Bangkok and Phuket airports immigration for over 10 years.