FatherF

FF,

Why does she need to know what PAD's reactions will be? Just a bunch of nonsense protesters ruining the whole Thailand because of one man.

Someone will make PAD disappear soon because they know too many.

I wasn't asking what "Her" reaction would be, I was asking what the reaction of the PAD would be! i would be interested in who will make the PAD disappear though......

FF

Whilst i think that your post is well constructed, it does not detract from the fact that the PAD are not a political party, if the PAD had the balls to create a political party, get voted in to power, then they could ligitimately press for changes...

Not at all. They demanded the government following the laws and doing what is was consitutionally obliged to do - it's the right, and in fact the duty, of every responsible citizen.

You don't need to be win elections to demand that government upholds the rule of law.

If you mean "new politics" proposal, then yes, you have a point, but PAD didn't take over airports to install new politics.

Their fight is against Thaksin and his proxies, new politics is just an idea of a system that would prevent such political confrontations from happening in the first place.

I agree with your sentiments, i just don't agree with the way the PAD went about it!

FF

Can you imagine the PAD reaction if she gets voted in as an MP? never mind even thinking about going for PM........... I think recent past events would pale into insignificance by comparison!

FF

Whilst i think that your post is well constructed, it does not detract from the fact that the PAD are not a political party, if the PAD had the balls to create a political party, get voted in to power, then they could ligitimately press for changes, however, the chose to blatently flout the law with their actions regarding swampy etc. Why would any government listen to what amounts to no more than a bunch of would be activists, who (allegedly) do not even have a political wing?

They could have shown their decent via the ballot box! (It's called democracy!)

FF

exactly. But one error in the post above they did create a political party, they just did not use it because they knew that they would not win the vote.... so taking seaports, airports, train, and all the other illegal actions they did was the only way for them to win, and the mere threat of doing so again is all they need to steer things their way in the future.

It is a shame then, that the same amount of organization, logistics, effort etc could not be put to better use via the Legal channels, instead of the more dictorial & illegal role they have adopted.

FF

The whole PAD debacle is entirely of the govt making - they should have tried to govern the country rather than mess with judiciary and consitution to save Thaksin's ass.

Back in January they have been warned many many times not to provoke political confrontation.

When they first raised Const amendments in March PAD had shown up, as predicted. Still the govt didn't give up on the idea and PAD was forced to up the ante by staging "live in" rally from May on. The govt still didn't give up, so it lost Govt House in August.

After Samak lost his post Somchai had a chance to back off and negotiate, but chose to order a brutal police crackdown on Oct 7.

He promised to step down if found responsible, but didn't follow up. Instead the govt tried to sneak const amendment in secret and PAD had no other options but physically block the parliament from holding the amendment session.

When PAD went to the airport to greet Somchai I bet they didn't have any plans to hold it and were surprised how it turned out. Excited Chamlong said that if he'd known how successful airport takeove would have been, he'd have done long ago.

The govt still didn't give in, Somchai fled to Chiang Mai instead of dropping Thaksin agenda. The courts were forced to act instead and on Friday, the third day of airport blocade, it was clear that PPP would face the music. It was high time for the govt to negotiate with PAD and free the airport, the govt had nothing to lose but the face.

They have weighed their options carefully - save the face or free the airport? Face came first.

The government is solely responsible before the public for starting the war with PAD and losing it so badly, and not doing anything to protect people affected by it.

The govt was not elected to fight this war, it didn't have a public mandate for it, they had been warned that consequences would be disastrous for the country, and they still went ahead and not only started it, but led it all the way to the dead end, dead end not only for themselves but for the country as well.

Whilst i think that your post is well constructed, it does not detract from the fact that the PAD are not a political party, if the PAD had the balls to create a political party, get voted in to power, then they could ligitimately press for changes, however, the chose to blatently flout the law with their actions regarding swampy etc. Why would any government listen to what amounts to no more than a bunch of would be activists, who (allegedly) do not even have a political wing?

They could have shown their decent via the ballot box! (It's called democracy!)

FF

So north is doing worse.

Anecdotally.

Friends reporting that Chiangmai is very quiet. One close friend who is an owner of a well known, long established bar in Chiangmai tells me takings and business are well down on last year. Golf courses are much less populated by the yearly influx of Japanese and Korean groups. Tee off times freely available at most.

Seeing as the Japanese bar street close to work is pretty much dead, the question begs me...is it mainly Asian tourists that have canceled their trips and won't be coming next year or is it equal amount of westeners? My purely anecdotal note is that my western friends all have booked in advance and are going unless the flights stop. They have planned their vacation many months in advance and refuse to give up their dreams of vacations far away from snow and cold.

I think that the "Westeners" will still come this year because as you rightly say they have already booked & paid for their holiday, as to whether they will re-book in the future remains to be seen................

Thailand is still not a good place to be according to the British Foreign office, they are still warning travelers to beware!

FF

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travelling-and-li...6EF8DFA.tomcat1

FF

Actually in France and around those parts,

Roses are an EXTREMELY socialist , populist icon.

I suspect this was his iconic gesture,

which may have been lost on many.

But I saw it as such immediately.

Do you think he makes such a gesture who no one including the receiver won't understand?

So, He comes from Newcastle, and is giving out roses? He would get punched really hard if he tried that in Newcastle!

FF

So north is doing worse.

Looking that way, they also said that they were slightly better off than some of the big hotels who were lucky to have 5 - 7% occupancy.

FF

More anecdotal evedence.

The resort down the street has 50% occupancy for the 1st time EVER,

and they are over the moon about it.

I know two places that are booked through Feb, no rooms till March,

and some of the Spa's are doing well too, particularly Kamalaya.

I wonder if a larger percentage of north vs south resort bookings are differing?

Just been speaking to a friend of mine in Chiang Mai, bookings are really down on last year!, they will struggle to get through this "High Season"

FF

Police to take legal action against violent red-shirted protesters

BANGKOK: -- Police Monday threatened to take legation action against red-shirted protesters who threw rocks at vehicles leaving Parliament, causing damages and injuries.

Metropolitan Police Commission Pol Lt Gen Suchart Muenkaew said police had take photos and videos of the rowdy protesters and would take actions against them later.

The protesters, who support former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and the Pheu Thai Party, turned violent after learning that Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva was elected the prime minister.

They used police's barriers to briefly blocked gates of Parliament. After, broke up the blockade, the protesters waited besides a gate and threw rocks at vehicles, leaving the Parliament compound.

The rocks broke the windshields and windows of several vehicles. Several people, including a reporter, were injured.

Suchart said police managed to control the situation after the protesters dispersed from in front of Parliament and regrouped at Sanam Luang.

-- The Nation 2008-12-15

Would these be the same police who watched two airports and G'ment house be taken by the PAD while they stood by and watched? Surley not............

FF

I wonder whether extradition proceedings will be started now? (Assuming that he is in a country that has such an agreement with Thailand!)

FF

Sinful thought of the day

Perhaps the PAD should head off to China and The Middle East in search of their nemesis!

A nice christmas image would be of them trying it on with a real police force and army at a real airport!

Maybe Sriracha John could design us a nice Christmas card depicting them in action with their little clappers in a Chinese jail. He certainly did a top job with his first post on this thread

Red shirts all round I would imagine!

3 Hail mary's do you FatherF?

Bless you grandpops,

I did a couple of "Our Fathers" as well, just for good measure.......

FF

I wonder whether extradition proceedings will be started now? (Assuming that he is in a country that has such an agreement with Thailand!)

FF

How can anyone take all this too seriously? The former Prime Minister and his wife are convicted for misappropriation of Govt Assets, abuse of privilege and so on. They appeal, they jump bail. The wife returns and walks around free. Try jumping bail in any western country and return and see what happens.

Then we have the 'audio & visual' brain washing of the masses. Red or yellow? Who cares?

Due process has been served. The PM was ousted and done by a Thai Court. Let the law stand. The two other nepotistic PM's were also ousted. The parliament dissolved and a vote has been taken. The new PM will now have to prove his worth. Let's hope the royals get behind him and give him the 'verbal' so the crowds back off.

Having heard this man publicly speak on occasions such as Rotary in Bangkok, in perfect English, I have no doubts he has a full understanding of legalese Westminster Law and have the intelligence that could make a fine leader, so let him run. If he has the intestinal fortitude and the backbone to withstand the undermining tactics and power-broking that will flail his senses, then he will have a chance to bring stability and provide a way forward. I would doubt there is a better person to lead this country right now looking at the options of hard nosed military and corrupt party (sic) members. If the Thai's don't like him then let them 'vote' him out at the next election.

And yes, the convicted criminal in exile will still be trying to run his self serving command upon the masses who will listen. As there are always more poor people than rich (the Pareto Principle) the promises of money to the poor will always get that vote. They care nought about the politics. If an 'election' were to be held, the vote would have the masses will done.

Right now it appears PAD have won, let's hope sanity and a strong arm of law will prevail and settle the feudal aspect by incarceration of law breakers - but then again... T.I.T.

Us Farang can only sit and ride out the tempest as there is literally nothing we can do otherwise other than pack up and leave. Our call, not the Thai's.

Good post

FF

Forgive me father for I have sinned again.

I though that democracy had no part in fascism and elitism?

Therefore, how can the PAD subject themselves to the scrutiny of the voters when they are think themselves above that kind of thing.

Even the sheep are quiet tonight on here!

Bless you my child,

Alas i fear that you are once again correct in your assertions.

FF

Secondly, the PAD condemns threats, intimidation, negotiations, and payment to politicians for them to join the Pheu Thai in being able to form government without care to the damages to the country and the public.

So to be clear, nobody thinks it is reasonable, to condemn threats, intimidation or payments to politicians ? But you all claim to believe in democracy, right ? How do you reconcile the two points of view ?

An unelected group dictating to the entire country obviously lead by a meglomaniac. This group is starting to make Thaksin seem like a reasonable guy

my highlights above.

May I beg to differ. A leader who has to threaten, intimidate or bribe his own party-MPs, not to desert him, is clearly in big trouble. Should be an interesting phone-call from Dubai this week-end.

I have to re-ask a question that i am sure many have asked before, if the PAD want all these changes, why don't they go down the proper channels, form a political party, stand for election, (maybe) get voted in with enough seats (even with a coalition) and do the job properly? Oh, silly me that would involve democracy wouldn't it?

FF

Edited for typo

Well, it was very nice of them to let us all know what our alternatives are!

ooooh! Collision course

FF

PAD opposes new PM from pro-Thaksin camp BANGKOK, Dec 12 (TNA) - The anti-Thaksin People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) declared on Friday its opposition to any possibility that the next prime minister come from the Puea Thai Party or any others of the previous coalition government.

The group also lodged a dozen demands sought from the likely new Democrat Party-led coalition government.

PAD coordinator Suriyasai Katasila said the demands included calls for the new government to accelerate investigation concerning lese majeste charges against key members of the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD), Veera Musikapong and Jakrapob Penkair, former minister to the prime minister's office....

Continued here - http://enews.mcot.net/view.php?id=7684

So, the PAD are still running the country/government and anything else they cheeos?

TiT

FF

I have to fly into swampy on 23rd Dec, what colour shirt should i wear?

Pig cat eon

FF

I hope they get very very long sentances.

FF

Thaksins interview in the Arabian paper -catch me if you can - included a claim in the preamble that the UK authorities had frozen a huge amount of his assets forcing him to sell Manchester City. This seemed to have not beeen noticed at the time, so I assumed it was an error. However, the story that the UK froze a vast anmount of his money now seems to be doing the rounds on the streets of at least Chonburi. I think it was reported in a Thai newspaper too.

Does anyone have any clarification on this?

I got that rumor as well, but no source. Would be nice to know if it is true or not.

I doubt very much that the UK could freeze any of his assets, as far as the UK government are aware, he has not commited any crime in the UK, and certainly not any crime that would result in seizure of assets, that is normally reserved for cases of major fraud, imbezelment, major drugs trafficking etc.

FF

They would have been hung if they were caught at the Alamo. That's one of the big differences in our cultures.

FatherF

As far as ICAO is concerned, they have a generic set of rules/laws which must be complied with, unless a local authority imposes a more stringent regulation (very often the case with the FAA and CAA's), in which case that must be applied. The FAA/CAA's do not just have regulations for the aircraft! Are you an aviator? as that is a very surprising comment.

My only point was that it was not the FAA who defined international law regarding airports all around the world, as you stated/implied in one of your previous posts!

FF

FF

Where did I ever imply that?? It was not mentioned until Samgrowth mentioned it.

Mu humble appologies, it was not you that said it, it was another poster that was quoting something else you had said, and i mistook it as a quote of yours!

FF

FatherF

As far as ICAO is concerned, they have a generic set of rules/laws which must be complied with, unless a local authority imposes a more stringent regulation (very often the case with the FAA and CAA's), in which case that must be applied. The FAA/CAA's do not just have regulations for the aircraft! Are you an aviator? as that is a very surprising comment.

My only point was that it was not the FAA who defined international law regarding airports all around the world, as you stated/implied in one of your previous posts!

FF

Old Man River

As a Pilot of 25 years and definitely not one of the 'Clueless', I can honestly say that you are a very misguided individual. If you think that AOT could have operated flights as normal, I can only assume that you take illegal substances. The thought that they could go about business as normal is just ludicrous. AOT are bound by International Law (not Thai law) to ensure that their premises operates to a level of security defined by law. Do you think for one moment that any international carrier would have gone in or out with no security at Swampy? The PAD protestors infiltrated the Air Traffic Control for gods sake. They were on the runway!!! Whilst friends are friends i suggest you consider what you are being told. The earth is flat.....honest it really is!!! The flights did not occur miraculously, they were aircraft OUTGOING, from operators who were losing millions whilst they were sat on the ground. The cargo was not incoming.

Would you be so kind to define what 'international law' [sic] that defines and regulates the security of an international airport?

25 years as a pilot - with what airline?

FAA

OK Sam, if you wish to be pedantic, which is not required in this debate, OK, however, you are either interested, or if you are signing off FAA you are trying to be a smart a**e. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have the sneeking suspicion from your tone, that you are trying to be a smart a**e. If as you imply you work for the FAA, you know dam_n well what I am on about. And for FatherF, the FAA may well only have authority within the USA, however their requirements are passed on to all operators of all nations whose aircraft fly in to US airspace. If you do not comply with their requirements in terms of the standards to which you operate, or indeed the security measures which are adopted prior to flight then you don't go in to US airspace, or indeed European airspace. The fact that you must comply with their regulations prior to commencement of a flight from Thailand is somewhat important. They may not have the same standard of requirements in any given country, but if you operate aircraft to a nation with more stringent requirements, then that is what you operate to. So lets make this really simple for you Sam, just in case you really don't work for the FAA, and if you do, then your reply is shocking to say the least. AOT could not continue with business as normal, because the PAD had compromised security. Had there been a mishap or terrorist incident with an aircraft, say from the USA, then the s**t would have hit the fan, and Thailand would likely not be permitted to have aircraft leave for any US destination for a long time to come. It is an International problem that affected AOT, not a local Thai policy of 'manyanna, it'll be ok, just take off anyway.

Sam, as to what airline, it is none of your business on a public forum, neither is it the names of the Aviation Training Company's that I am also involved with. PM me and ask me some aviation questions if you like, and I will test your knowledge of FAR's.

Tigs, I am suprised by your response,

The FAA,CAA etc etc, these rules & regulations apply to the Aircraft itself, "In the United States, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), governs applied aspects of flight. In the international realm, the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) provide general rules and mediates international concerns to an extent regarding aviation law. The ICAO is a specialized agency of the United Nations." source = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_law.

From what i can assertain, Airports themselves are usually run as private entities, eg BAA (British Airports Authority) is actually a private company However, i believe that there is a volantary agreement to maintain security levels etc.

FF

Old Man River

As a Pilot of 25 years and definitely not one of the 'Clueless', I can honestly say that you are a very misguided individual. If you think that AOT could have operated flights as normal, I can only assume that you take illegal substances. The thought that they could go about business as normal is just ludicrous. AOT are bound by International Law (not Thai law) to ensure that their premises operates to a level of security defined by law. Do you think for one moment that any international carrier would have gone in or out with no security at Swampy? The PAD protestors infiltrated the Air Traffic Control for gods sake. They were on the runway!!! Whilst friends are friends i suggest you consider what you are being told. The earth is flat.....honest it really is!!! The flights did not occur miraculously, they were aircraft OUTGOING, from operators who were losing millions whilst they were sat on the ground. The cargo was not incoming.

Would you be so kind to define what 'international law' [sic] that defines and regulates the security of an international airport?

25 years as a pilot - with what airline?

FAA

The FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) only has authority within the USA, just as the UK has the CAA (Civil Aviation Authority)

FF