Abhisit claims exoneration in red-shirt crackdown

[webfact]

Abhisit claims exoneration in red-shirt crackdown

By THE NATION

 

Abhisit Vejjajiva

 

BANGKOK: -- FORMER prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, who has recently had murder charges related to the 2010 crackdown on the red shirts against him dismissed, said the case had been brought to the “wrong court” because the matter had become politicised.

 

Meanwhile, on a separate occasion, Nattawut Saikua, of the red-shirt United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), complained that the matter got thrown back and forth, going nowhere after the court refused to consider it last week.

 

The red shirts would now discuss the matter with legal and other relevant experts to find solutions, because everyone agreed that the culprits should be brought to justice, he said. 

 

“Unless we get justice, we will continue to go on asking for it,” Nattawut said. “Initially, we have agreed to complain to the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) to scrutinise officers involved. But if it is found later that the NACC abused its power, we will sue them, too.”

 

The red shirts would wait until the NACC decided whether to take up the case before proceeding, he said.

 

The Supreme Court last week dismissed the charges against Abhisit and his deputy Suthep Thaugsuban in the case related to the bloody crackdown in 2010.

 

The court reasoned that it was not within its jurisdiction to rule on the case involving malfeasance that was brought by the Department of Special Investigation (DSI). Rather, it should have been in the political office holders’ court and investigated by the NACC, the three criminal courts have said.

 

Abhisit explained yesterday on the news programme “Tong Tham”, broadcast on the Bluesky channel, that he exercised his power in a way that resulted in casualties and he accepted that it had to be scrutinised. But the NACC had already dismissed the case, citing the operation was legitimate, he said.

 

The issue, however, became politicised after the change of administrations, he said. The DSI took the matter into its hands, taking it to the criminal courts, he said. 

 

In addition, Abhisit said he had to accept being called a “blood-stained-hand murderer” by some people who were misled by false information and others with political agendas.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/politics/30325787

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-09-05

[Samui Bodoh]

51 minutes ago, webfact said:

Abhisit claims exoneration in red-shirt crackdown

 

No, you got let off on a technicality and the bureaucratic shuffle.

 

90 or so people dead and neither accountability nor responsibility.

 

I am speechless.

[webfact]

Relatives Eye New Lawyers For Murder Case Against Abhisit, Suthep

By Pravit Rojanaphruk, Senior Staff Writer

 

At a vigil Thursday, Phayaw Akkahad, at center facing away, wears the vest her daughter was killed in May 22, 2010, while tending to injured protesters at a Bangkok temple.

 

BANGKOK — Those seeking justice for more than 90 people killed during political unrest in 2010 said Monday they would seek new lawyers to revive murder charges against a former prime minister and his deputy four days after the Supreme Court declined to hear the case.

 

Phayaw Akkahad, the mother of a woman killed during the 2010 crackdown on Redshirt protests said Monday that she and others would seek new lawyers to fight for justice. The move came after the Supreme Court turned down the murder case against former premier Abhisit Vejjajiva his then deputy, Suthep Thaugsuban.

 

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2017/09/04/relatives-eye-new-lawyers-prosecution-abhisit-suthep-murder/

 

-- © Copyright Khaosod English 2017-09-05

[ramrod711]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Meanwhile, on a separate occasion, Nattawut Saikua, of the red-shirt United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), complained that the matter got thrown back and forth, going nowhere after the court refused to consider it last week.

Speaking of people with "blood stained hands", what about the people like Nattawut that brought those "victims" to Bangkok in the first place? Bring your one liter bottles and we will fill them with gasoline so that you can burn the country down. Just run people down with your cars, after all it is just a motor vehicle offense. Truckloads of "protesters" passing through police checks, transport paid for by Thaksin Shinawatra, only to have their I.D. cards held by organizers so that they couldn't leave. Machine shops manufacturing M79 grenade launchers, grenades launched at airport fuel bunkers, electrical towers standing precariously on two legs after bombings. Nattawut Saikua and many others are responsible for that, and many, if not all, emerged far richer. I'm not defending Abhisit, he can look after himself, what I am saying is that poor people were lured there by opportunists who should be held to the same standard.

Edited September 5, 2017 by ramrod711
spelling

[canuckamuck]

The courts can't see yellow, only red.

[joecoolfrog]

1 hour ago, ramrod711 said:

Speaking of people with "blood stained hands", what about the people like Nattawut that brought those "victims" to Bangkok in the first place? Bring your one liter bottles and we will fill them with gasoline so that you can burn the country down. Just run people down with your cars, after all it is just a motor vehicle offense. Truckloads of "protesters" passing through police checks, transport paid for by Thaksin Shinawatra, only to have their I.D. cards held by organizers so that they couldn't leave. Machine shops manufacturing M79 grenade launchers, grenades launched at airport fuel bunkers, electrical towers standing precariously on two legs after bombings. Nattawut Saikua and many others are responsible for that, and many, if not all, emerged far richer. I'm not defending Abhisit, he can look after himself, what I am saying is that poor people were lured there by opportunists who should be held to the same standard.

But the ' opportunists ' on the other side should get a free pass , right ?

Degrees of violence or pre meditation are completely moot , only the representatives of one side will ever be found guilty , you and I both know that so drop the silly pretence.

[Thian]

8 hours ago, ramrod711 said:

Speaking of people with "blood stained hands", what about the people like Nattawut that brought those "victims" to Bangkok in the first place? Bring your one liter bottles and we will fill them with gasoline so that you can burn the country down. Just run people down with your cars, after all it is just a motor vehicle offense. Truckloads of "protesters" passing through police checks, transport paid for by Thaksin Shinawatra, only to have their I.D. cards held by organizers so that they couldn't leave. Machine shops manufacturing M79 grenade launchers, grenades launched at airport fuel bunkers, electrical towers standing precariously on two legs after bombings. Nattawut Saikua and many others are responsible for that, and many, if not all, emerged far richer. I'm not defending Abhisit, he can look after himself, what I am saying is that poor people were lured there by opportunists who should be held to the same standard.

And not to forget the looting/burning down of Central World plaza....

[hansnl]

6 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

No, you got let off on a technicality and the bureaucratic shuffle.

 

90 or so people dead and neither accountability nor responsibility.

 

I am speechless.

What about blaming the redshirts.

I seem to remember it were them starting to burn buildings, threatening people, shooting people.

I am speechless the redshirt culprits and leaders we're never brought to justice.

And speechless so many conveniently want to forget that part.

Edited September 5, 2017 by hansnl

[Godang]

Yellow can do.

Red cannot do.

[pornprong]

58 minutes ago, Thian said:

And not to forget the looting/burning down of Central World plaza....

Looks like you've already forgot this thread is about Abhisiv's role in the killing 90 or so people.

[pornprong]

12 minutes ago, hansnl said:

What about blaming the redshirts.

I seem to remember it were them starting to burn buildings, threatening people, shooting people.

I am speechless the redshirt culprits and leaders we're never brought to justice.

And speechless so many conveniently want to forget that part.

Each person should be accountable for their own crimes.

Do you seem to remember 90 people being shot dead by the military?

Should the person supposedly in charge during that period be brought to justice?

You too have conveniently forgotten the article is about Abhisit - care to comment on that?

[billd766]

4 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

The courts can't see yellow, only red.

 

Really?

 

Ask Sonthi Limthongkul who was sentenced to 20 years in jail if he is a red shirt.

[pornprong]

5 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Really?

 

Ask Sonthi Limthongkul who was sentenced to 20 years in jail if he is a red shirt.

Sonthi was convicted in February 2012 for a crime committed in the 1990's but didn't see the inside of a jail cell until nearly 30 years later after he became vocally critical of the ruling Junta (coincidence?).

He is also one of the very few to beat a LM charge.

I think it is safe to say that had his political affiliations been of the Red variety, much more of his life would have been spent behind bars.

 

I bet you couldn't name 1 yellow for every 10 reds that are serving politically related sentences.

 

So yes, really!

[candide]

13 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Really?

 

Ask Sonthi Limthongkul who was sentenced to 20 years in jail if he is a red shirt.

Sonthi has been a controversial figure who also pissed off influential people (not red).

There has been an assassination attempt and Sondhi's son, Jittanart Limthongkul, blamed factions within the military and the Abhisit government of being behind the assassination attempt. Tell me: which army faction was close to Abhisit? 

[Thian]

5 hours ago, pornprong said:

Each person should be accountable for their own crimes.

Do you seem to remember 90 people being shot dead by the military?

Should the person supposedly in charge during that period be brought to justice?

You too have conveniently forgotten the article is about Abhisit - care to comment on that?

What i do remember is that those groups of reds occupied sukhumvitroad and built barricades there of cartires which they put on fire...They also shot at police with any kind of homemade weapon they could get their hands on.

To top it off there were men in black on the roofs and they were heavy armed.

 

The only thing the government could do was shoot the culprits since they wouldn't listen to anybody and even started shooting grenades and so.

 

Anybody who was in that area had put himself in danger, there had been plenty warnings that they should leave.

 

They also put the Central World mall on fire. 

 

I don't feel sorry that a few got hurt, i hoped the government would just get them out asap, no matter how. Those were the worst days BKK has ever seen. It took a long time before the government finally took action, next time they should do it straight away, no matter against who, reds, yellows, blacks whatever....just drive tanks through them.

[YetAnother]

thai 'justice' cannot even get a case directed to the right type of court ?!

[mtls2005]

I love the smell of reconciliation in the morning. It smells like "victory".

 

Until such time - never? - that everyone is treated equally under the law Thailand will remain a "rule-by-law" country, and suffer accordingly.

 

But then I suspect this sort of result is a "feature", rather than a "bug", in the Thai "judicial" system.

[pornprong]

1 hour ago, Thian said:

What i do remember is that those groups of reds occupied sukhumvitroad and built barricades there of cartires which they put on fire...They also shot at police with any kind of homemade weapon they could get their hands on.

To top it off there were men in black on the roofs and they were heavy armed.

Seems to be a very one sided memory you got there buddy.

 

Do you by chance happen to remember the 90+ people killed by the military with state of the art weapons of war, apparently acting under PM Abhisit's orders - that is of course what this thread is about.

 

Quote

The only thing the government could do was shoot the culprits since they wouldn't listen to anybody and even started shooting grenades and so.

No, the government could have dissolved parliament and called fresh elections as both Thaksin and Yingluck did when faced with similar situations. This would have ended the protest there and then without the need to shoot anyone.

 

Quote

Anybody who was in that area had put himself in danger, there had been plenty warnings that they should leave.

Ah yes, I clearly remember how quickly Suthep and the PDRC packed up and went home as soon as the government politely asked them to.

 

Funny, here you want to place the blame for the Red deaths on the Reds for putting themselves in danger but none of you guys ever apply the same standards when talking about yellow deaths. If Reds die, it's their fault for entering dangerous zones, if Yellows die , it's because the Reds are terrorist thugs. 

 

Quote

They also put the Central World mall on fire. 

They sure did. 

Wouldn't you be a touch angry yourself if you were witnessing your brothers and sisters being slaughtered.

 

Quote

I don't feel sorry that a few got hurt, i hoped the government would just get them out asap, no matter how. Those were the worst days BKK has ever seen. It took a long time before the government finally took action, next time they should do it straight away, no matter against who, reds, yellows, blacks whatever....just drive tanks through them.

Did they get hurt or murdered?

You don't feel sorry for, amongst 90+ others murderd, the young nurse shot and killed in the temple declared safe zone whilst tending to the wounded?

 

What made those days so bad for you if you don't feel sorry for those that were killed? Did it upset your shopping plans?

 

The Red shirt protest started March 14 and the army started killing protestors on April 10, that is a grand total of 27 days from start of protest to start of massacre.

 

How does that compare to Sutheps protest?

 

The PDRC was formed and took to the streets on November 29 and remained on the streets until May 22, that is a grand total of 173 days..... and yet no massacre. Why, in one case, was the only thing the government could do was shoot after 27 days, but in the other case, the government managed to not shoot for 173 days?

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by pornprong

[djjamie]

The Right Honourable Abhisit should be given an award. Had he not intervened when he did the further loss of life and destruction by the red shirt terrorists would have been worse. 

[pornprong]

6 minutes ago, djjamie said:

The Right Honourable Abhisit should be given an award. Had he not intervened when he did the further loss of life and destruction by the red shirt terrorists would have been worse. 

There was no loss of life before he intervened and nearly 100 lives lost after he intervened.

The only award the Dishonourable Abhisit should be receiving is a lengthy jail sentence.

[djjamie]

In a way I do agree Abhisit should be held responsible somewhat for the deaths. He was too tolerant and showed too much patience with the terrorists thus they became more and more brazen.

April 9th, 2010 was the first use of force by the military and it was with rubber bullets and water cannons.

The protests began on the 12th of March. So between then and the 9th of April when the red terrorists threatened to blow up an LPG truck, grenade attacks at Thai banks, attacked Thai charity with grenades, stormed parliament, attacked NPP and TPI buildings with M16 and grenades the military did nothing. NOTHING!

Imagine that. NOTHING!! In any country in the world the leader would not be able to get away with allowing the capital to be violently savaged without taking any action. They would be removed.

The only saving grace is the Right Honorable Abhisit's heart was in the right place. His hesitation was because he wanted to try to settle this protest peacefully. Unfortunately the red shirts were having none of that and Thaksin got what he was hoping for. Blood on the streets or as Jatuporm stated during his "peaceful protest"  "The dark sky will turn red. Red like blood".

 

Red shirt protest site involved grenades coming out of the protest site. Sutheps protest site involved grades being thrown into the protest site. So much so Suthep had to install anti grenade nets to protect the protestors. 

 

[pornprong]

28 minutes ago, djjamie said:

In a way I do agree Abhisit should be held responsible somewhat for the deaths. He was too tolerant and showed too much patience with the terrorists thus they became more and more brazen.

Too tolerant and too much patience?

He apparently gave orders to have live ammunition fired at them after just 27 days.

 

28 minutes ago, djjamie said:

April 9th, 2010 was the first use of force by the military and it was with rubber bullets and water cannons.

The protests began on the 12th of March. So between then and the 9th of April when the red terrorists threatened to blow up an LPG truck, grenade attacks at Thai banks, attacked Thai charity with grenades, stormed parliament, attacked NPP and TPI buildings with M16 and grenades the military did nothing. NOTHING!

Between April 9 and March 12 how many people died?

Fact is there were no injuries and no arrests prior to the April 10 murders.

 

28 minutes ago, djjamie said:

Imagine that. NOTHING!! In any country in the world the leader would not be able to get away with allowing the capital to be violently savaged without taking any action. They would be removed.

Again, zero arrests and zero injuries prior to the April 10 murders.

 

The red protests of 2010 were far, far shorter in duration than the yellow mobs of 2006, 2008 and 2014

 

28 minutes ago, djjamie said:

The only saving grace is the Right Honorable Abhisit's heart was in the right place. His hesitation was because he wanted to try to settle this protest peacefully. Unfortunately the red shirts were having none of that and Thaksin got what he was hoping for. Blood on the streets or as Jatuporm stated during his "peaceful protest"  "The dark sky will turn red. Red like blood".

Abhisit wasn't even in charge. He was, and remains, a cowardly front man.

 

28 minutes ago, djjamie said:

Red shirt protest site involved grenades coming out of the protest site. Sutheps protest site involved grades being thrown into the protest site. So much so Suthep had to install anti grenade nets to protect the protestors. 

All Thai protest sites of the last 10 years have involved grenades. 

Makes one question the competence of the military officers in charge of munitions.

 

Too bad Suthep didn't offer to lend some of those grenade nets to the police who were on the receiving end of grenades being thrown at them from his mob.

[Srikcir]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

the case had been brought to the “wrong court” because the matter had become politicised.

Actually, it was just the reverse - the original charge was politicized.

1. DSI filed charges against Abhisit in Criminal Court for premeditated murder - a civil penal crime. A guilty verdict would mean a prison term and disqualification from public office.
2. Three months following Prayut's takeover of the government, the case was moved to the the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions with the charge of "abuse of power" - a political crime. A guilty verdict would only ban Abhisit from politics for five years. Court ruled not guilty.

 

 

[Denim]

2 hours ago, djjamie said:

The Right Honourable Abhisit should be given an award. Had he not intervened when he did the further loss of life and destruction by the red shirt terrorists would have been worse. 

I'd love to give him an award if he would bend over legs apart to receive it.

 

Ironic that he regards himself as innocent but has not retracted the remarks he made against Somchai for his crackdown on the yellowshirts.

[ramrod711]

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Really?

 

Ask Sonthi Limthongkul who was sentenced to 20 years in jail if he is a red shirt.

And that was after he was shot in his car, more Red justice.

[Golgota]

4 hours ago, djjamie said:

The Right Honourable Abhisit should be given an award. Had he not intervened when he did the further loss of life and destruction by the red shirt terrorists would have been worse. 

No life was lost until they shot Seh Daeng...All the violence started there..guess who shot him???

I am sure the civilians shot from above while they were in the temple also would contest your opinion, as well as the 60 people who "vanished"...The family of the reporters also would disagree..

 

[tomta]

7 hours ago, Thian said:

And not to forget the looting/burning down of Central World plaza....

As I remember, two or three redshirts were charged and acquitted. The circumstances around Central World are very peculiar if you want to look it up http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/redshirt-suspects-acquitted-arson-charge/  Just the basics here but this is  a very strange case indeed. This article contains ths gist of the peculiar circumstances I am talking about. I'm not aware of these allegations having ever been refuted. https://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2013/02/20/burning-central-world/

Yes, I know this is a very anti-military, anti-Abhist site. That alone does not prove they are misguided in their suspicions

Edited September 5, 2017 by tomta
extra information

[pornprong]

25 minutes ago, ramrod711 said:

And that was after he was shot in his car, more Red justice.

Red justice, or military justice???

 

From Sondhi's son own mouth...

 

Sondhi appears to differ with Kasit. Judging from what his son Jittanart Limthongkul and media outlets have said it suspects a faction of the “uniformed armed forces” may be behind the move to kill him.

Sondhi apparently thinks people in the military wanted to eliminate him and put the blame on Thaksin and his red shirt mob, in a bid to provoke Sondhi’s supporters in the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) to attack their foes, the reds.

[wakeupplease]

4 hours ago, pornprong said:

The Right Honourable

The Right Honorable they are words used in the wrong place here

 

If he had been red he would be on death row by now and you all know it. But with his mate suthep walks free and its is his mate as he was at the wedding the other week.

 

just a magpie no disrespect to the city or club intended. Mind you they do not want him back

[Golgota]

2 minutes ago, wakeupplease said:

The Right Honorable they are words used in the wrong place here

 

If he had been red he would be on death row by now and you all know it. But with his mate suthep walks free and its is his mate as he was at the wedding the other week.

 

just a magpie no disrespect to the city or club intended. Mind you they do not want him back

Suthep is the real evil behind this