Opening a Thai Bank Account- New Policy?

[bkkcanuck8]

18 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Lots of BKKB expat customers have online banking with them -- without having a work permit.

 

But I believe they sometimes tend to restrict online banking to those with longer stay entry status, like year-long, as opposed to tourist visa or visa-exempt entry. But I also think their handling of this may vary widely branch to branch.

I have a bank account with Bangkok Bank, which I opened around 7+ years ago on probably a 6 month educational visa... Whenever I deal with Customer Service they do the standard stuff - take a copy of the photo page, the entry stamp and the visa page and if those are fine they will "service the account" (give you a new bank book when the old one is filled, etc.).  

I went in on Monday to have it setup for Internet banking (have always just used ATM, but I need to pay bills and will not be here).  It was setup without any additional requirements.

[bkkcanuck8]

17 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I can't remember about this for certain, so maybe someone else can recall better:

 

But I have a recollection -- BKK Bank and perhaps the others have two classes of accounts, that I think they refer to as RESIDENT or NON-RESIDENT accounts. For example, IIRC, you need an account they mark as RESIDENT in order to get interest earnings.

 

And it all comes down to how the account rep who opens your account classes it at the outset -- as RESIDENT or NON-RESIDENT.

 

It MAY be that their classification of an account as RESIDENT or NON-RESIDENT has some bearing on whether they consider the account eligible for the added service of online banking.

 

I had two accounts with BKK Bank around 5 years ago, one was definitely interest bearing since it was a fixed deposit for a period of time (tourist visa at the time).  (around 1 million baht fixed deposit).  I doubt my account is marked RESIDENT.

[NancyL]

It never fails to amaze me how western guys think they need to have a Thai wife to help them "take care" of their money and "help" them with their banking.  How do you think western women here on their own or expat/expat couples manage? 

 

The Kad Suan Kaew branch of Bangkok Bank in Chiang Mai is very "foreigner friendly".  All Hubby and I had to do to open an account, albeit 10 years ago, was walk in with U.S.$10,000 and tell them we were new arrivals, with freshly minted O-A visas and had heard this was a good bank for retirees.  They were so happy to have us as customers that one of their CS reps even helped us to buy a mobile phone in the mall since it was necessary to have a Thai phone number to open an account (we already had a one year lease on a condo.)

 

Since then, I've helped other newly arrived retirees in opening accounts at this same branch.  There are some new regulations, something they call "know your customer" and Bangkok Bank spells out the required documents for opening a new account very plainly on their excellent website.  They will also permit current customers, with large balances, to serve as references for people wanting to open new accounts and I've done this from time-to-time with people I know.  Contrary to popular belief, they won't accept a reference from just any random Thai person and a foreigner known to them can be a good reference, too.

 

Anyone who turns responsibility for their banking to another person, even their wife, to be done in a language they can't understand, is setting themselves up for misunderstandings (at best) and exploitation (at worst).  The Bangkok Bank English language website is very good and I've found they have very good English language customer service on their 1333 customer service number (once you figure out their voicemail menu) and many branches have good English speaking staff.  

[Dante99]

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

It never fails to amaze me how western guys think they need to have a Thai wife to help them "take care" of their money and "help" them with their banking.  

There are more than a few that always go out as a pair, the guy never goes out by himself.  Sad but true.

[BKK1969]

Or, like me, learn to speak rudimentary Thai and dazzle them with your BS, they always get a laugh out of that.

Yes that BS used to get me by too. Doesn't seem to work anymore for an old white man.
Even the Soi dogs aren't as friendly.
Hope the pension holds firm otherwise its back to the poorhouse.



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[BKK1969]

Yes that BS used to get me by too. Doesn't seem to work anymore for an old white man.
Even the Soi dogs aren't as friendly.
Hope the pension holds firm otherwise its back to the poorhouse.



Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

And the cold brrrr


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[1sickpuppy]

On 9/12/2017 at 2:20 PM, beachproperty said:

Yes....adapt...OR try another bank

Is the new law for x amount of time now being enforced like many

[elektrified]

A lot of this is because there is a crackdown happening (in the case of Americans). Something changed around 1 July and the banks and brokerage firms have been sending many registered letters.  I've received about 3 in the last 4-5 months. Just yesterday I received another registered letter from a brokerage firm in Bangkok saying "by law, effective immediately customers holding a  U.S. citizenship can no longer trade foreign currencies or maintain balances in any other currency except Thai Baht".

[opalred]

i have had more money taken from me by western women in my life than here

i have a thai wife looks after me better than any farang women would 

drives me every where looks after all money matters and health care 

never stole or spends on herself over many years

so don't every give me bs western women are better

we go every where together  as enjoy each each  others company 

sad to see the old farts by  themselves

sad lost souls

[elektrified]

1 hour ago, opalred said:

i have had more money taken from me by western women in my life than here

i have a thai wife looks after me better than any farang women would 

drives me every where looks after all money matters and health care 

never stole or spends on herself over many years

so don't every give me bs western women are better

we go every where together  as enjoy each each  others company 

sad to see the old farts by  themselves

sad lost souls

We have all separate accounts. My wife wouldn't have it any other way. We do 80% of our business and errands separately. We're adults....

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 9:36 PM, pby92 said:

At KrungThai Bank they close my account during my last stay as i not have work permit or non OA retirement visa.

They say it's the new policy.

I must show to the branch as I cannot withdraw the money I have on my account in any ATM cost me plane ticket .Bangkok Nakhon Si Thammarat and more.

As my plan was to visit Philippines I came from Paris to Bangkok plan to withdraw my money in ATM at Swampy and flight Cebu .

My on line Banking was also unavailable even if it was 10 days before.

Was not very happy.

Thanks for posting that. I'll be sure to withdraw all my money from the Thai bank before I lose my retirement visa.

Could have caused problems had I not read this thread. Well done TVF.

 

Once again, Thailand authorities prove that they don't want farangs living in LOS.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, elektrified said:

A lot of this is because there is a crackdown happening (in the case of Americans). Something changed around 1 July and the banks and brokerage firms have been sending many registered letters.  I've received about 3 in the last 4-5 months. Just yesterday I received another registered letter from a brokerage firm in Bangkok saying "by law, effective immediately customers holding a  U.S. citizenship can no longer trade foreign currencies or maintain balances in any other currency except Thai Baht".

Get used to it. Change is indeed happening and none of it for our benefit. Gonna get worse too.

I feel sorry for those starting off in life. I probably lived through the best times humans ever saw, but it's over now.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, NancyL said:

It never fails to amaze me how western guys think they need to have a Thai wife to help them "take care" of their money and "help" them with their banking.  How do you think western women here on their own or expat/expat couples manage? 

 

The Kad Suan Kaew branch of Bangkok Bank in Chiang Mai is very "foreigner friendly".  All Hubby and I had to do to open an account, albeit 10 years ago, was walk in with U.S.$10,000 and tell them we were new arrivals, with freshly minted O-A visas and had heard this was a good bank for retirees.  They were so happy to have us as customers that one of their CS reps even helped us to buy a mobile phone in the mall since it was necessary to have a Thai phone number to open an account (we already had a one year lease on a condo.)

 

Since then, I've helped other newly arrived retirees in opening accounts at this same branch.  There are some new regulations, something they call "know your customer" and Bangkok Bank spells out the required documents for opening a new account very plainly on their excellent website.  They will also permit current customers, with large balances, to serve as references for people wanting to open new accounts and I've done this from time-to-time with people I know.  Contrary to popular belief, they won't accept a reference from just any random Thai person and a foreigner known to them can be a good reference, too.

 

Anyone who turns responsibility for their banking to another person, even their wife, to be done in a language they can't understand, is setting themselves up for misunderstandings (at best) and exploitation (at worst).  The Bangkok Bank English language website is very good and I've found they have very good English language customer service on their 1333 customer service number (once you figure out their voicemail menu) and many branches have good English speaking staff.  

Oh, how sad has LOS become? I opened my Bkk Bank a/c back in the good old days with just a passport on a visa exempt entry.

Back then I got 90 days visa exempt on arrival too, but can't do that anymore either.

 

Of course, back then Thailand welcomed farangs, unlike now.

[scottiejohn]

Just opened another account today at BKK with just my Passport.  40 Minutes all done and also online banking done at the same time.

 

No problems at all.  The teller noticed that my first account had been opened some time ago while I was on a Tourist Visa so said, without any prompting by me (although on my questions to ask list), that she would update my visa status and see if she could get me Internet banking either today if possible, if not by Wed next week.  She sorted it all out there and then and I actually set up the Internet Banking with my laptop & mobile whilst I was still in the bank branch at Pantip (with their help).

 

Great staff and service!

 

PS; no wife or hand holding required.

Edited September 14, 2017 by scottiejohn
PS added!

[NancyL]

I think the "problem" is with Thailand trying to comply with U.S. regulations about "know your customer"  and reporting activity of their U.S. customers to the U.S. gov't.  

 

Bangkok Bank works to comply with the U.S. gov't regs, in part because they want to continue to receive U.S. gov't deposits for recipients of SS and VA benefits.  No other bank in Thailand is awarded this trust.  A friend had no problem in opening a U.S. dollar account at Bangkok Bank two months ago and I talked with the BB-KSK asst. mgr this weekend about Hubby and me opening a U.S. dollar account soon because we're expecting an IRS refund and this isn't the best time to convert USD to Thai baht when you don't need to.  He said "no problem", bring in Hubby when he returns from Malaysia and we'll open a USA account for you.

 

Speaking of Hubby, he's been in Kota Kinabalu, Sabah state for several weeks, having fun with friends and also applying for our MM2H visa.  The appointment with Sabah immigration went amazingly well (and will be reported elsewhere), but his meetings with Malaysian banks were not-so-good.   The way that the MM2H visa works is that once approved, the visa holder has to make a large deposit in a Malaysian bank which can be withdrawn only under specified conditions.  (unlike the new proposed 10 year Thai visa, where the money has to be on deposit in a Thai bank BEFORE approval).  Yes, the funds on deposit earn interest and can be withdrawn when leaving the country, etc.

 

Anyway, after a very positive meeting with the MM2H Imm. officer for Sabah, Hubby went to visit some banks to see about setting up a "MM2H bank account".  First question was about his nationality.  He was shown the door immediately in a couple banks, until he had the presence of mind to start slowly telling the story about how we've been retirees in Thailand for nine years, etc, etc.  Then the bank officer asked if we had bank accounts in Thailand.  Bingo!  Yes, no problem, we could become customers of their bank.  All we had to do was retain our Bangkok Bank account, route the money from the U.S. into a Bangkok Bank account and then wire from Bangkok Bank into their Malaysian bank account.

 

He was blown away the first time this was proposed and called me for discussion.  My first thought was "this is a way for some banks in three countries to make some money".  Then I wondered if it was legal.  As I thought about it, I realized the burden of FATCA reporting is on us, the account holder.  Even if the Malaysian bank isn't reporting to the Feds, we should.  And if we have, say $100,000 that flows through Bangkok Bank and into a Malaysian bank, we'd report that high balance for both banks in our FATCA report and everything would be cool.  It's not like we're taxed on that amount.  Yes, one of the "problems" with FATCA is that you end up "double reporting" the same money when you shift it between bank accounts.  But that only becomes  a problem when you fail to report and are  penalized.  

 

 

 

 

[scottiejohn]

I should add that the only reason for my opening a new bank account today was that I was concerned by the OP’s original post which now appears to be unfounded.

As one of the questions in my previous post above I asked the teller about any known extra restrictions in the pipeline and she said no, but she went and talked to her manager who came back and also said they had no knowledge of any new documents/restrictions on account openings for either present account holders opening accounts or new ‘walk in’ customer account openings!

As we all know the ‘rules’ can be made by the teller/clerk on the spot to suit their mood at the time of their ‘ruling’.

I think we can relax until we get some real evidence that some new law has been introduced.

PS; comments about US citizens and their financial restrictions mention in earlier posts are to do with the recent (2015/16) FACTA regulations imposed by the US government worldwide and not restricted to Thailand.

 

 

PS I wrote this B4 seeing Nancy(L) response above.

Be aware that any national who is considered to have a 'Financial entity/base' in the US is subject to FACTA.

[scottiejohn]

28 minutes ago, NancyL said:

I realized the burden of FATCA reporting is on us, the account holder.  Even if the Malaysian bank isn't reporting to the Feds, we should.

Having been involved in FACTA compliance in the UK with a major bank I can assure you that any bank in any country which has 'agreed' to accept FACTA is reporting to the US FED via it's own internal Tax revenue authority.  In the case of the UK all banks who have carried out due diligence and 'Know your Customer' audits will report any customer of any nationality who has a 'financial Nationality or physical connection' with the US.  Many UK Expats are having their bank accounts frozen because they have not responded to UK bank letters asking them to clarify their non dem/possible FACTA status.

Nancy is totally correct in that FACTA can result in the same money moved between different banks/countries in the same (US) tax year being multiple accounted for as each bank will report only the amounts involved  and cannot reveal the sources unless asked for.

As an ex banker all I can say is that FACTA for a non US citizen is horrendous. How US citizens handle it is beyond me.

As a side note:  In many circumstances UK expats do not need/will not have to pay tax on foreign earnings, my understanding is that it is only in exceptional circumstances that a US expat can avoid paying tax on foreign income, hence the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) 

[CMBob]

6 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

How US citizens handle it is beyond me (FATCA).

Actually, I've complied with the rules for years - filing the FBAR (online only nowadays) and attaching the 8938 form to my income tax return - and it's rather simple and easy to do.  All you have to know is your bank name and address, your account number, and the highest amount that was in each foreign account at any one time during the year.  If you switch banks (within or without the same foreign country) or even move the same money to a different account number in the same bank, then you just add that information too [which might appear to outsiders that you have almost double the money but it really makes no difference as the filings are simply informational (for interest reporting on foreign accounts, you simply do that on your tax return the same way you'd report interest of any US bank account)].  Of course, if you never have more than $10,000.00 in foreign accounts at any one time during the year, you don't have to file any forms (but you still report any interest earned on your annual income tax return like you've always done). 

[Dante99]

6 hours ago, CMBob said:

Actually, I've complied with the rules for years - filing the FBAR (online only nowadays) and attaching the 8938 form to my income tax return - and it's rather simple and easy to do.  All you have to know is your bank name and address, your account number, and the highest amount that was in each foreign account at any one time during the year.  If you switch banks (within or without the same foreign country) or even move the same money to a different account number in the same bank, then you just add that information too [which might appear to outsiders that you have almost double the money but it really makes no difference as the filings are simply informational (for interest reporting on foreign accounts, you simply do that on your tax return the same way you'd report interest of any US bank account)].  Of course, if you never have more than $10,000.00 in foreign accounts at any one time during the year, you don't have to file any forms (but you still report any interest earned on your annual income tax return like you've always done). 

Filing the FBAR does not satisfy all the FATCA requirements.  It used to be all you needed to do but now FATCA has additional requirements, many, complex.  Best if you can keep balances below FATCA reporting limits then you can just do FBAR.  Even better to stay below FBAR limits and not file anything as you mentioned.

[CMBob]

4 hours ago, Dante99 said:

Filing the FBAR does not satisfy all the FATCA requirements.  It used to be all you needed to do but now FATCA has additional requirements, many, complex.  Best if you can keep balances below FATCA reporting limits then you can just do FBAR.  Even better to stay below FBAR limits and not file anything as you mentioned.

With respect to what an individual has to do, you're wrong....only need to file the FBAR (online ) if your foreign accounts (bank accounts, investment accounts, etc.) exceed $10,000 at any one time during the year and only need to attach the 8938 form to your income tax return if your foreign accounts totalled $50,000 or more at the end of the year or $75,000 or more at any one time during the year. That's all that an individual has to do (other than report interest earned as usual in your annual tax return) and it's very easy to do.  As to what banks have to file, that's not an individual's concern.

 

Actually, only the 8938 form is under the FATCA statute whereas the FBAR  (now really titled a FinCen 114) was required by a separate statute (comment made although not all that relevant).

[Dante99]

1 hour ago, CMBob said:

With respect to what an individual has to do, you're wrong....only need to file the FBAR (online ) if your foreign accounts (bank accounts, investment accounts, etc.) exceed $10,000 at any one time during the year and only need to attach the 8938 form to your income tax return if your foreign accounts totalled $50,000 or more at the end of the year or $75,000 or more at any one time during the year. That's all that an individual has to do (other than report interest earned as usual in your annual tax return) and it's very easy to do.  

Can't argue with that except I do not see why any of it means what I wrote was wrong about what an individual has to do.  What ever, it is all just about the US wanting to control the world banking system and triggered by UBS stupidity and greed.  May they both rot in hell.

[bluweyze]

I just explained my experience. I have had and still have accounts at the bank for 9 years, I have opened almost 30 accounts for clients during the last 3 years and suddenly this week (with a Swiss client) I hit this 'money laundering/anti-terrorist' new set of rules. Finally after a day I got hold of the new set of rules (because strangely enough the Swiss embassy did not want to know about producing any letter or form) and as a company director I could sign a letter stating what the bank account was for, give the bank, yet another, set of company documents and get the account open. The rules have changed (at least in Bangkok Bank) and others may hit problems in the future. A poster said my post had 'no foundation' well time will tell! I was earlier told I was off my head suggesting the new build in Maerim was to be a PT station...hmmm the tanks have gone in, the pumps will soon be installed and I'll still be off my head because it really is a Big C!!

[NancyL]

22 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

.......

As an ex banker all I can say is that FACTA for a non US citizen is horrendous. How US citizens handle it is beyond me.

As a side note:  In many circumstances UK expats do not need/will not have to pay tax on foreign earnings, my understanding is that it is only in exceptional circumstances that a US expat can avoid paying tax on foreign income, hence the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) 

As was pointed out by another poster, compliance with the requirements of FATCA really isn't difficult for U.S. citizens -- the filing is all done on-line and if you keep your bankbooks up-to-date, it's just a matter of rounding them up, scanning each for the high balance the previous year and filing out the online form.  It's a bit of a pain when you have signature authority for an account (like for a club), but no ownership rights and still have to report that bank account and the club treasurer doesn't understand why you want to know the high balance, account number and address of the bank branch, also, but oh well.  

 

All the banks in Thailand are in compliance and now report this information to the IRS for U.S. citizens.  They want to know if someone is a U.S. citizen, even if they opened their account using a non-U.S. passport, which may explain why Bangkok Bank is asking a Swiss national for documentation that they are really a Swiss national since people do have dual citizenship.

 

As for U.S. expats avoiding paying tax on foreign income, I refer you to the  Thai-U.S. Tax Treaty https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/thailand.pdf

 

and the paragraph-by-paragraph explanation of this treaty by the IRS in plain English

 

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/thaitech.pdf 

 

Americans working overseas can elect not do not pay U.S. taxes on their first $100,800 of earned income (IRS Form 2555) and retirees with private pensions who are "substantially" living in Thailand can claim Thai residency for tax purposes, file both Thai and U.S. income tax returns and claim their private pension income on their Thai tax returns.  Pension income isn't taxed in Thailand.  Social Security and other gov't pension income has to be claimed on the U.S. tax return.  

 

So, contrary to popular belief Americans don't have to pay taxes on all income, no matter where in the world it is earned and there are some tax advantages for Americans living overseas.

[Dante99]

27 minutes ago, opalred said:

maybe attitude has something to do with it  

 

Bingo

[Rimmer]

A post ending in a personal flame of another member has been removed

[CMBob]

8 hours ago, Dante99 said:

Can't argue with that except I do not see why any of it means what I wrote was wrong about what an individual has to do.   

Not intending to argue with you but I posted some time ago (and again on the prior page) what an individual (referring to a US citizen) has to do...I have no idea what a non-US citizen has to do or not do).  You wrote: 

                "Filing the FBAR does not satisfy all the FATCA requirements.  It used to be all you needed to do but now FATCA has additional requirements, many, complex."

 

You're correct that filing the FBAR (now FinCen114 form) isn't all an individual has to do if one has foreign accounts of more than $50,000 at the end of the year or has more than $75,000 in foreign accounts at any one time of the year; but, I already pointed that out a couple of times.  In that later case, US citizens also have to fill out and attach the 8938 form to their US tax return.  But that's all a US citizen has to do, there are no other requirements, and it's hardly complex (in fact, it's very simple and easy).

 

Nancy points out that if you are a signatory on someone else' account (or, for example, on an organization's account), then you have to provide that information too on the forms.  But even that's easy to do (so long as you know the bank name, account name, account number, bank address, and the high amount of the year).

 

When I file the FBAR online each year, it takes me less than 10 minutes (and that's taking my time).  When I fill out the 8938 form which is attached to my annual 1040 (that's a US income tax return), it takes even less time than that (as I just copy the info from the FBAR I already filed).  

[Dante99]

8 hours ago, CMBob said:

Not intending to argue with you but I posted some time ago (and again on the prior page) what an individual (referring to a US citizen) has to do...I have no idea what a non-US citizen has to do or not do).  You wrote: 

                "Filing the FBAR does not satisfy all the FATCA requirements.  It used to be all you needed to do but now FATCA has additional requirements, many, complex."

 

You're correct that filing the FBAR (now FinCen114 form) isn't all an individual has to do if one has foreign accounts of more than $50,000 at the end of the year or has more than $75,000 in foreign accounts at any one time of the year; but, I already pointed that out a couple of times.  In that later case, US citizens also have to fill out and attach the 8938 form to their US tax return.  But that's all a US citizen has to do, there are no other requirements, and it's hardly complex (in fact, it's very simple and easy).

 

 

 

 

Very simple and easy if you only have bank accounts to report.  What about if you have other reportable assets of which there are many and some complex like ownership or part ownership of foreign corporations, trusts, real estate, safe deposit box stashes, LLPs, foreign securities accounts .......?  I have looked at all the stuff they want reported and if you had half of it reporting would not be simple and easy.  Just my opinion of course.