Only Fools and Horses star reveals heartbreak as Thai wife banned from the UK

[jeab1980]

19 minutes ago, les Dennis said:

If Farage had any sense he would spin this case to highlight how ridiculous the law is. Patrick Murray may not be a household name in the UK but Mickey Pearce certainly is.

Really i would not recognise the name.  Or put it into only fools and horses and i have watched every episode.

[7by7]

17 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I have no idea why you would think that would prevent what I said, all it would take for a taxi driver would be to not give all their fuel receipts to their accountant and they would appear to have earned a higher profit than they really did.

 Which would take some forward planning as self employed income must be from at least the last full tax year!

 

So last years accounts wouldn't do unless they already showed the minimum was earned; meaning the family being separated for at least another year while the sponsor fiddles his accounts.

 

But as has been already said by others; it's a pretty poor, or lazy, taxi driver who doesn't earn more than £18,600 p.a.!

 

 

 

 

 

[Kieran00001]

15 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Most of the people you mention are in the UK as highly skilled migrants; which means that they already had to have a job with a UK employer who sponsored them before they could even apply for their visa! In most cases, that employer also found at least temporary accommodation for them before they arrived.

 

We are not talking about them, but about family migration.

 

BVTW, do you have a source for your figures; preferably broken down by category of visa?

 

Most of those come from the EU, they don't need a visa, the point I was making is just that many people do manage to relocate for work,, that was what you were claiming was too difficult for many, in reality it just takes some money but if the potential is to make more then so what?

[Kieran00001]

11 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Which would take some forward planning as self employed income must be from at least the last full tax year!

 

So last years accounts wouldn't do unless they already showed the minimum was earned; meaning the family being separated for at least another year while the sponsor fiddles his accounts.

 

But as has been already said by others; it's a pretty poor, or lazy, taxi driver who doesn't earn more than £18,600 p.a.!

 

 

 

 

 

 

True, or actually half the year as it should be possible for them to enter on a visitor visa for a maximum of 6 months out of 12.

And Yes, he just needs to get his act together.

[bobrussell]

If you want to know the facts regarding the income requirements, rights to British citizenship rather than some of the drivel being spouted by some in this thread then head over to the Visas and immigration to other countries section of thaivisa.com.

Just please don't bring any bigotry and racism with you!

 

The child will be a British citizen (assuming he is the father and the picture is recent). Children born before the rule was changed (many years ago) are generally treated in the same way as those born after the rule changes although it is correct to state technically this is 'discretionary'.

 

The rules are tighter for the self-employed and a longer period of income has to be demonstrated compared to the employed. The rules are not necessarily that fair but they are equally unfair for everyone.

 

 

 

 

[rasg]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

I have no idea why you would think that would prevent what I said, all it would take for a taxi driver would be to not give all their fuel receipts to their accountant and they would appear to have earned a higher profit than they really did.

You would be quite surprised at how deeply UKVI can delve into accounts if they think something dodgy is going on.

 

When I had the accounts prepared for my wife's settlement visa 18 months ago I had to supply all of the statements from both my personal accounts and my business accounts. When my wife applied for her settlement visa in February 2016 all of the statements that I relied on were dated from April 2014 to March 2015.

 

For "Mickey" to do what you suggest he could wait a long time before his wife applied, if he wanted to do what you suggest.

 

Any accountant who is good at their job would see through your "scam" in ten minutes. It's expensive having a settlement visa refused and likely that his wife would receive a ten year ban from applying for further visas.

 

Better not to lie and submit false documents to UKVI...

[Kieran00001]

16 minutes ago, rasg said:

You would be quite surprised at how deeply UKVI can delve into accounts if they think something dodgy is going on.

 

When I had the accounts prepared for my wife's settlement visa 18 months ago I had to supply all of the statements from both my personal accounts and my business accounts. When my wife applied for her settlement visa in February 2016 all of the statements that I relied on were dated from April 2014 to March 2015.

 

For "Mickey" to do what you suggest he could wait a long time before his wife applied, if he wanted to do what you suggest.

 

Any accountant who is good at their job would see through your "scam" in ten minutes. It's expensive having a settlement visa refused and likely that his wife would receive a ten year ban from applying for further visas.

 

Better not to lie and submit false documents to UKVI...

 

A good or any other accountant would have no way to work it out, it is not as if you are expected to record the mileage of every job so how on earth could they work out how much fuel you should have used?  But yes, it would have to have been done a year ahead, and I am not actually suggesting he or anyone else does it, I would just be surprised if those who are self employed and slightly under the threshold wouldn't do it, as it would actually be very easy, I've had several businesses I actually do know that it is really not at all hard to fudge the numbers a little in ways where there's zero risk due to the excepted allowances they give you, everyone does it a bit and he would be doing it to increase his tax, they are hardly going to be investigating that!

[Eloquent pilgrim]

2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I have no idea why you would think that would prevent what I said, all it would take for a taxi driver would be to not give all their fuel receipts to their accountant and they would appear to have earned a higher profit than they really did.

are you winding people up, or are you genuinely madder than mad Mick McMad …….. why would anyone falsify their tax return to the inland revenue claiming to have earned MORE than they actually did, and thereby  become responsible for paying increased income tax on money that they had not actually earned …… please tell me it's a send up 

[bobrussell]

Trying to get one over the tax man is a lot more difficult that many think. the system knows ball park figures for pretty much every business and any figures that don't make sense to them are targets for investigation.

Once labelled as having attempted a fraudulent application it is likely that subsequent ones will be dissected to a microscopic level to pick up wrong doing.

There is the option of applying for a visit visa for some of the period while waiting for the first year accounts. Alternative options would be to work for someone else on a salary. Still a wait but not so long.

It may well be that he is earning well over the £18,600 but has to do so for a year as he is self-employed. Not sure anyone is saying he does not earn enough, just needs to show it with an years accounts.

[Kieran00001]

25 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

are you winding people up, or are you genuinely madder than mad Mick McMad …….. why would anyone falsify their tax return to the inland revenue claiming to have earned MORE than they actually did, and thereby  become responsible for paying increased income tax on money that they had not actually earned …… please tell me it's a send up 

 

To get their wife into the UK, did you arrive at this thread late?

[elviajero]

32 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

are you winding people up, or are you genuinely madder than mad Mick McMad …….. why would anyone falsify their tax return to the inland revenue claiming to have earned MORE than they actually did, and thereby  become responsible for paying increased income tax on money that they had not actually earned …… please tell me it's a send up 

Anyone would pay a bit extra tax if it meant keeping their family together!

[Kieran00001]

22 minutes ago, bobrussell said:

Trying to get one over the tax man is a lot more difficult that many think. the system knows ball park figures for pretty much every business and any figures that don't make sense to them are targets for investigation.

Once labelled as having attempted a fraudulent application it is likely that subsequent ones will be dissected to a microscopic level to pick up wrong doing.

There is the option of applying for a visit visa for some of the period while waiting for the first year accounts. Alternative options would be to work for someone else on a salary. Still a wait but not so long.

It may well be that he is earning well over the £18,600 but has to do so for a year as he is self-employed. Not sure anyone is saying he does not earn enough, just needs to show it with an years accounts.

 

I didn't imply someone would take their earnings outside of what is normal, jut make them up to the threshold, it's only 18k <deleted>, no one is watching 18k businesses.

[les Dennis]

4 hours ago, jeab1980 said:

Really i would not recognise the name.  Or put it into only fools and horses and i have watched every episode.

Well he was in nearly a third of the episodes Jeab !

[jeab1980]

I know the face as a younger man the face now brings back no memories nor does his real name. He was a bit part actor in a series were other actors shone through more than he did. He could have been in every episode but as a bit part actor would never be recognised.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

13 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

To get their wife into the UK, did you arrive at this thread late?

Complete and utter madness; If for example he needed to inflate his earnings by say, £6k, he would then incur an extra tax liability of £1200 which he would have to pay even though he had not earned the money on which the tax had been calculated. Throw twelve hundred quid away when you are struggling for money, yeah, right. 

Then when he made his next return, the inspector of taxes would want to know why his fuel consumption had spiralled off the dial ….. I have 3 friends that are UK cabbies, one drives a black cab and the other two minicabs; they all earn in excess of £30k per annum, whilst taking holidays and consequently only working 48 weeks a year, so this should not even be an issue if he is prepared to put in the admittedly long hours.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

12 hours ago, elviajero said:

Anyone would pay a bit extra tax if it meant keeping their family together!

Complete and utter madness; If for example he needed to inflate his earnings by say, £6k, he would then incur an extra tax liability of £1200 which he would have to pay even though he had not earned the money on which the tax had been calculated. Throw twelve hundred quid away when you are struggling for money, yeah, right. 

Then when he made his next return, the inspector of taxes would want to know why his fuel consumption had spiralled off the dial ….. I have 3 friends that are UK cabbies, one drives a black cab and the other two minicabs; they all earn in excess of £30k per annum, whilst taking holidays and consequently only working 48 weeks a year, so this should not even be an issue if he is prepared to put in the admittedly long hours.

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Complete and utter madness; If for example he needed to inflate his earnings by say, £6k, he would then incur an extra tax liability of £1200 which he would have to pay even though he had not earned the money on which the tax had been calculated. Throw twelve hundred quid away when you are struggling for money, yeah, right. 

Then when he made his next return, the inspector of taxes would want to know why his fuel consumption had spiralled off the dial ….. I have 3 friends that are UK cabbies, one drives a black cab and the other two minicabs; they all earn in excess of £30k per annum, whilst taking holidays and consequently only working 48 weeks a year, so this should not even be an issue if he is prepared to put in the admittedly long hours.

 

The throwing away of 1200 pounds is based only on your example of him being 6000 short, that would mean a very low income indeed, now imagine he was only 1000 short, a couple hundred pounds tax to pay and he gets to live with his wife and child.  And a few more tank fulls is hardly "spiraled out of control", that would be a more appropriate expression to describe your argument.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

3 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

The throwing away of 1200 pounds is based only on your example of him being 6000 short, that would mean a very low income indeed, now imagine he was only 1000 short, a couple hundred pounds tax to pay and he gets to live with his wife and child.  And a few more tank fulls is hardly "spiraled out of control", that would be a more appropriate expression to describe your argument.

It would not be necessary if he was only 1,000 short, he could put in a few extra hours and avoid throwing two hundred quid up in the air. He would also then avoid submitting a fraudulent tax return to the inland revenue, which is a criminal offence, as is falsifying any document to present to the immigration authority; but as I have said, no imaginative accounting would be needed if he is prepared to work hard enough because he can easily earn above the minimum requirement, but none of us know if that is something he is prepared to do.

[Kieran00001]

1 hour ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

It would not be necessary if he was only 1,000 short, he could put in a few extra hours and avoid throwing two hundred quid up in the air. He would also then avoid submitting a fraudulent tax return to the inland revenue, which is a criminal offence, as is falsifying any document to present to the immigration authority; but as I have said, no imaginative accounting would be needed if he is prepared to work hard enough because he can easily earn above the minimum requirement, but none of us know if that is something he is prepared to do.

 

You either make it or you don't, if a self employed person doesn't quite make enough by the end of the tax year then they could easily pretend that they did and so I would be surprised if they don't, that is my only point.  You assume that someone who doesn't make enough from their business could then magically make enough by just doing more hours, that is obviously not necessarily true.

And one of the ways a taxi driver, and any other business could increase their profit on their tax return is not actually fraud, we pay accountants good money to find ways to reduce our tax bill, to fail to submit all that could be offset is certainly not fraud nor falsifying a document.  But I do agree, as I said in previous comments, it is really not that difficult to meet the threshold for anyone who is willing to put themselves out a bit.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

On 20/09/2017 at 7:53 AM, mommysboy said:

You've just made a whole lot of assumptions about him based on your prejudices, which may or may not be true.  For instance, do you think he approached this in the cold, systematic way you describe?  Most people kind of stumble in to a marriage, and a child follows.  It's not an economic decision.

 

You've then tried to blame him for acting irresponsibly when clearly he is attempting the opposite.

 

And there are his daughter's rights.  As you say it's a shame she can not be with him in the UK.  He is not preventing that really.

 

I do agree the law is the law.

 

Also, it needs to be pointed out that relationships involving Thais in UK often end messily.

I have, I admit, like most commenters on here, made some assumptions, simply because the article, and also the one in the Mirror, are very light on information, but I certainly have not done so with any prejudice. 

 

I don't know if he has approached this in a cold and calculating way, but I believe he has certainly approached it in an irresponsible way.

 

His daughter is 2 years and 10 months old, so she was born sometime in November 2014, and given a normal term of labour, conceived in February 2014. I would like to think that they had known each other for more than 3 months before committing to have a child, but even if it was only 3 months, that puts him in Thailand in November 2013, so what was he doing here from then until returning to the UK in April 2016. 

 

Neither article tells us this, I suspect because they are designed to evoke sympathy, which would be diminished somewhat if they reported that he had simply been luxuriating himself in Pattaya until his money ran out; and neither article mentions the fact that they did not get married until April 2016, just before he returned to the UK  ……. spot a plan there ?? 

 

Do you really think that is responsible that a man in his late fifties comes to Thailand, fathers a child, and eventually gets married, knowing that he does not have the financial resources to live here and take care of them, and does not meet the minimum income criteria to bring them back to the UK. If you do, we must disagree, which is what freedom of opinion is all about.

 

P.S ….. I cannot buy that he didn't have any knowledge of the rules, he’s been round the block more times than you can shake a stick at.

I have also read an online article from a UK newspaper from March of this year that he is playing the pub and bar scene in Benidorm ….. which won't be much help to his meeting the minimum income threshold. 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

You either make it or you don't, if a self employed person doesn't quite make enough by the end of the tax year then they could easily pretend that they did and so I would be surprised if they don't, that is my only point.  You assume that someone who doesn't make enough from their business could then magically make enough by just doing more hours, that is obviously not necessarily true.

And one of the ways a taxi driver, and any other business could increase their profit on their tax return is not actually fraud, we pay accountants good money to find ways to reduce our tax bill, to fail to submit all that could be offset is certainly not fraud nor falsifying a document.  But I do agree, as I said in previous comments, it is really not that difficult to meet the threshold for anyone who is willing to put themselves out a bit.

I think that's enough Inland Revenue conversation, and we both agree that driving either a black cab, or as I believe in his case, a minicab, he can easily earn beyond the minimum requirement. I have however read an online article from a UK paper published in March this year, saying that he is playing the pub and bar scene in Benidorm now. That won't help much with meeting the minimum income threshold, unless he finds someone that wants a cab back to Peckham from there ???

[Kieran00001]

7 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

I think that's enough Inland Revenue conversation, and we both agree that driving either a black cab, or as I believe in his case, a minicab, he can easily earn beyond the minimum requirement. I have however read an online article from a UK paper published in March this year, saying that he is playing the pub and bar scene in Benidorm now. That won't help much with meeting the minimum income threshold, unless he finds someone that wants a cab back to Peckham from there ???

 

No, it won't help him meet the threshold but if his work is taxed there then that will enable him to get his family into the UK under an EU clause.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

11 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

No, it won't help him meet the threshold but if his work is taxed there then that will enable him to get his family into the UK under an EU clause.

Patrick Murray file a self employed tax return in Spain .......... ha ha ha ... nice one ??

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

I have, I admit, like most commenters on here, made some assumptions, simply because the article, and also the one in the Mirror, are very light on information, but I certainly have not done so with any prejudice. 

 

I don't know if he has approached this in a cold and calculating way, but I believe he has certainly approached it in an irresponsible way.

 

His daughter is 2 years and 10 months old, so she was born sometime in November 2014, and given a normal term of labour, conceived in February 2014. I would like to think that they had known each other for more than 3 months before committing to have a child, but even if it was only 3 months, that puts him in Thailand in November 2013, so what was he doing here from then until returning to the UK in April 2016. 

 

Neither article tells us this, I suspect because they are designed to evoke sympathy, which would be diminished somewhat if they reported that he had simply been luxuriating himself in Pattaya until his money ran out; and neither article mentions the fact that they did not get married until April 2016, just before he returned to the UK  ……. spot a plan there ?? 

 

Do you really think that is responsible that a man in his late fifties comes to Thailand, fathers a child, and eventually gets married, knowing that he does not have the financial resources to live here and take care of them, and does not meet the minimum income criteria to bring them back to the UK. If you do, we must disagree, which is what freedom of opinion is all about.

 

P.S ….. I cannot buy that he didn't have any knowledge of the rules, he’s been round the block more times than you can shake a stick at.

I have also read an online article from a UK newspaper from March of this year that he is playing the pub and bar scene in Benidorm ….. which won't be much help to his meeting the minimum income threshold. 

 

You have just rewritten what you wrote in a milder version.  The assumptions you make are still heavily prejudiced and nothing other than conjecture, eg, he could have tried to make a real fist of it in Thailand, but found out that he wasn't up to being a teacher.  We just don't know.  Perhaps conception was a happy accident.  We just don't know.

[puchooay]

On 9/17/2017 at 1:30 PM, bristolgeoff said:

it is wrong when u see all the illegals in the uk getting everything.he wants his wife and child  with him legal.but he can not,that is wrong

Please explain how "illegals" get everything.

[elviajero]

6 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Complete and utter madness; If for example he needed to inflate his earnings by say, £6k, he would then incur an extra tax liability of £1200 which he would have to pay even though he had not earned the money on which the tax had been calculated. Throw twelve hundred quid away when you are struggling for money, yeah, right. 

Financial madness maybe, but that doesn't mean any father, or husband in a loving relationship, wouldn't move heaven and earth so their family can live together. £1,200 seems a small price to pay rather than being apart for another 12 months.

 

Whether or not someone on such a low income should be moving their family is a different conversation to inflating earnings to unite a family. 

[mommysboy]

21 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Financial madness maybe, but that doesn't mean any father, or husband in a loving relationship, wouldn't move heaven and earth so their family can live together. £1,200 seems a small price to pay rather than being apart for another 12 months.

 

Whether or not someone on such a low income should be moving their family is a different conversation to inflating earnings to unite a family. 

Yes.  I agree with you and Kieran on the matter of earnings and suitability to move.  One is left rather wringing one's hands.

 

On another matter, he definitely was a career actor.  I recognized him instantly.

 

Thinking creatively, his best strategy might be to seek one of the exemptions detailed in 7by7's postings- that they can not be together in his wife's home country.  Ironically, his unfortunate inability in respect of earnings in Thailand at least could be put to good use.  Taken as a family unit, they are stateless at present.

[bobrussell]

His wife has not been banned and if he is settled in Spain and playing the pub and bar scene then his wife can live with him there under EU freedom of movement  then he can apply under Surinder Singh for her to return to the UK.

There are ways for some to work round the system should they choose and can find work elsewhere within the EU.

[mommysboy]

22 minutes ago, bobrussell said:

His wife has not been banned and if he is settled in Spain and playing the pub and bar scene then his wife can live with him there under EU freedom of movement  then he can apply under Surinder Singh for her to return to the UK.

There are ways for some to work round the system should they choose and can find work elsewhere within the EU.

I missed the bit about him having spent time playing the pub and bar scene.

 

But yes, there are ways.

 

Would she have to do the written test or meet any other requirements?

[bobrussell]

There are far more knowledgeable people than me but go to the visa and migration to other countries of this forum and check out the pinned Schengen Visa post there by Donutz.

Half way down it explains the requirements if the applicant is joining an EU family member in a country other than their own.

Good links there too.