Thailand plans joint arms factory with China

[webfact]

Thailand plans joint arms factory with China

By Panu Wongcha-um

 

A Royal Thai air force prototype combat drone developed by the Defense Science and Technology Department is pictured during the Defense and Security 2017 exhibition in Bangkok, Thailand, November 7, 2017. REUTERS/Panu Wongcha-um

 

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Thailand's defence technology agency plans to set up a joint centre with China to produce and maintain military equipment in the latest sign of the strengthening security relationship since a 2014 coup.

 

The plans to establish the facility - and discussions on a Chinese naval centre to serve submarines Thailand ordered this year - point to a growing Chinese security presence in the oldest U.S. ally in the region as elsewhere in Southeast Asia.

 

The Thai government's Defence Technology Institute (DTI) will set up Thailand's first commercial joint defence facility with China in the northeastern province of Khon Kaen in July, a defence ministry spokesman said.

 

It will be responsible for assembly, production and maintenance of Chinese land weapon systems for the Thai army.

 

"All our production will be for domestic official usage," defence ministry spokesman Kongcheep Tantravanich told Reuters, adding that it could become an assembly and maintenance centre for all states in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).

 

Specific details, he said, were subject to further discussions between the ministry and China North Industries Corporation (NORINCO) - which makes tanks and weapons among other heavy equipment.

 

NORINCO did not respond immediately to an emailed request for comment. Its website describes it as "a pioneer and leader of Chinese military trade, and an important team to implement China's Going Global strategy".

 

Kongcheep said the Chinese would provide training and technology transfer, but details of any Chinese personnel in Khon Kaen were among things being discussed.

 

The Chinese Defense Ministry did not respond when contacted by Reuters for comment.

 

BIG PURCHASES

 

China has become an increasingly important source of weapons for Thailand, particularly since the United States and Western countries downgraded ties after the army seized power in 2014.

 

Major purchases since 2015 include orders for 49 Chinese tanks and 34 armoured vehicles worth over $320 million (243.33 million pounds) - much more than the army has bought from other countries, although it also ordered helicopters from both Russia and the United States.

 

The biggest Chinese purchase is the Royal Thai Navy's order for three submarines at a cost of over $1 billion.

 

Thai and Chinese armies and air forces have begun joint exercises, complementing Thailand's continuing drills with the U.S. forces. On the civilian front,Thailand and China plan development of a high-speed rail link as part of Beijing's Belt and Road initiative.

 

Relations with the United States are warming again too, however, particularly since new U.S. President Donald Trump hosted junta leader Prayuth Chan-ocha at the White House.

 

The joint weapons manufacturing centre in Khon Kaen - apparently similar to one in Pakistan - could complement China's growing military presence in neighbouring Cambodia, said Paul Chambers, who has researched Thai military and regional security.

 

"It opens the door for the potential of growing Chinese military influence in mainland Southeast Asia," said Chambers, of Naresuan University in the northern Thai province of Phitsanulok.

 

New legislation taking effect next year will allow Thailand's Defence Technology Institute to operate on a commercial basis, but it will remain entirely under government ownership.

 

Thailand's Defence Ministry said the government was also holding preliminary discussions with Ukraine, Russia and South Africa about joint defence manufacturing facilities, similar to the deal with China.

 

(Reporting by Panu Wongcha-um; Additional reporting by Ben Blanchard in BEIJING; Editing by Amy Sawitta Lefevre and Matthew Tostevin)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-11-16

[observer90210]

The millions for the military toys, could better use to improve safety in the harardous Thai roads perhaps with different national campaigns either to check, enforce or the train drivers of public vehicles...or improve road infrastructure ?...or maybe develop a more efficient public transport grid nationwide efficient enough to discorage commuters from using their cars ?

 

...or improve training of police officers to enforce the laws or plainly to increase their motivation and honesty of the police force in increasing their salaries

 

.....not to mention a million other ways of spending the money for general public interest and safety.

Edited November 16, 2017 by observer90210

[bheard]

What bothers me about all this build up of equipment is maintenance.
So Thailand builds a drone, and who figures out the maintenance schedule and then writes the manual?
Given that maintenance is undeniably a weak point in the Thai psychology, how is this all gonna end?
What is undertrained Somchai going to do when he is required to read and digest these probably inadequate manuals?
If you see one of these drones in the sky, start praying that it passes you by.


Sent from my F3116 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[chainarong]

An ill wind that blows , Thailand is dealing in waters over it's head and will I dare say regret at a later stage...............................

[Dave67]

They will be the hub of drones after the become the hub of, high speed railways, Aircraft maintenance, Quality tourists, sport, Hospitals, automatic car parks, Airports and after they awarded the FIFA world cup they will build quality drones in Sino-Thai JV

[dinsdale]

Come into my parlor said the spider to the fly. China wants control of SE Asia or as much as they can get. North Korea is not the biggest problem in this part of the world.

[klauskunkel]

They have drones now..., for crying out loud

I see headlines already:

snubbed drone operator kills girlfriend and family with military drone. "She stopped to have sex with me, because  I drink too much, so I dropped a bunker buster on her house."

 

 

[Cadbury]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

China has become an increasingly important source of weapons for Thailand

Good for Thailand. China was once an important source of weapons for Pol Pot. Draw as many conclusions as you like.

[greatwhitenorth]

[Fore Man]

Another troubling issue is logistics support for a multitude of weapon systems and platforms. The RTA and sister services tend to spread their procurements across multiple vendors and nations, buying several complex systems that perform the same or closely related missions. This means they end up with a hodgepodge of equipment, a huge array of part numbers, technical pubs, test and diagnostic equipment, varying maintenance procedures and the need to cross-train personnel on all these different capabilities. It’s a logistician’s nightmare and almost guaranteed to reduce sustainability and operational readiness over time. By disregarding standardization of its combat systems, Thailand is unwittingly weakening its own national defense and committing unnecessary public funds that could well be useful in other needful sectors of Thai society.  Education, public health, industrial and highway safety and so on.  Shame in that; the people deserve far better. 

[tracker1]

Hope the products are of a better and more reliable commodity then the domestic products available Made in China or Thailand !

[coulson]

Thailand was the first Country to procure a commercial aircraft made in China. Trump will be very annoyed at this next level initiative.

 

Prayut promised to buy some good quality hardware from the US, he obviously saw the quote and realized they can't afford to keep their promise.

[coulson]

16 minutes ago, tracker1 said:

Hope the products are of a better and more reliable commodity then the domestic products available Made in China or Thailand !

The combined quality could only be worse, they are struggling to build a railway.

[kaorop]

6 hours ago, observer90210 said:

The millions for the military toys, could better use to improve safety in the harardous Thai roads perhaps with different national campaigns either to check, enforce or the train drivers of public vehicles...or improve road infrastructure ?...or maybe develop a more efficient public transport grid nationwide efficient enough to discorage commuters from using their cars ?

 

...or improve training of police officers to enforce the laws or plainly to increase their motivation and honesty of the police force in increasing their salaries

 

.....not to mention a million other ways of spending the money for general public interest and safety.

Wheres all the fun in that?  Pragmatic cost effective plans are difficult enough to find in the west, so being 'pragmatic' they know there is no chance of  them coming up with them here, so dont even waste their time trying and just blow the money like a trustfunded kid. 555

[YetAnother]

i really really love these thai/chinese ventures ;

as per usual, the thais are about 2 steps behind and chinese are smiling;

learn mandarin

[mania]

Quote

Relations with the United States are warming again too, however, particularly since new U.S. President Donald Trump hosted junta leader Prayuth Chan-ocha at the White House.

 

Typical lack of understanding English language

He was not "hosted" he was summoned & told trade was way out of balance & would be in need of changes.

 

But agreed,  warming relationships on the horizon, 555 This latest news will finalize the already felt warmth

Quote

China has become an increasingly important source of weapons for Thailand, particularly since the United States and Western countries downgraded ties after the army seized power in 2014.

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by mania

[Thongkorn]

Drones are old hat now, Britain has moved on to pilotless fighters, Totally autonomous,

[bendejo]

Production is already underway in LOS.

 

 

[bendejo]

I don't think the US will get in China's way with ANY plans these days.  DT is so light-headed from Xi blowing smoke up his arse he would probably allow them to have a missile base outside of Washington DC.

 

 

[Srikcir]

14 hours ago, webfact said:

The plans to establish the facility - and discussions on a Chinese naval centre

So maybe a permanent Chinese base in Thailand? Like the Chinese militarization of South China Sea atolls, such a facility will quickly expand and multiply. The Junta may be putting Thai sovereignty at risk - wouldn't that be an irony?

14 hours ago, webfact said:

it could become an assembly and maintenance centre for all states in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).

Just bluster, more hub of everything.

While The Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia do orders with China for naval weapon systems, it would be ironic for potential purchase of Thai-assembled Chinese weapons maintained by Chinese facilities in Thailand having to repel China's navy over sovereign sea areas. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphjennings/2017/09/07/china-is-eagerly-selling-arms-in-asia-despite-territorial-disputes/#2a1768fc7a47

 

 

[sanuk711]

10 hours ago, Cadbury said:

Good for Thailand. China was once an important source of weapons for Pol Pot. Draw as many conclusions as you like.

And America was once an important source of weapons to the Nazi's---your point being ??

The full details of how the Fords and Rockefellers colluded to supply Nazi Germany are still not fully known because those were strictly guarded trade secrets, but even the little that has been made public and acknowledged by historians makes it clear that the war did not in any way slow the pace of the US  trade with Berlin..

https://www.globalresearch.ca/history-of-world-war-ii-americas-was-providing-military-aid-to-the-ussr-while-also-supporting-nazi-germany/5449378

[Happyman58]

14 hours ago, bheard said:

What bothers me about all this build up of equipment is maintenance.
So Thailand builds a drone, and who figures out the maintenance schedule and then writes the manual?
Given that maintenance is undeniably a weak point in the Thai psychology, how is this all gonna end?
What is undertrained Somchai going to do when he is required to read and digest these probably inadequate manuals?
If you see one of these drones in the sky, start praying that it passes you by.


Sent from my F3116 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

just wondering would the drone be better than the  balloon they bought But just goes to show Lots of money for military but for hospitals schools Roads NOTHING   shake my head

[wirat69]

10 hours ago, tracker1 said:

Hope the products are of a better and more reliable commodity then the domestic products available Made in China or Thailand !

.... who will write/translate the Instruction Booklets??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bendejo]

8 hours ago, Srikcir said:

So maybe a permanent Chinese base in Thailand?

Sure, it would be something like a "military technology development facility," fancy title for a military base, and under the Thai flag.  With provisos like there will always be more Thai troops present than Chinese, e.g. 2,000 visiting advisors and 2,100 Thais soldiers -- that will assure there could not be a hostile seizure. 

 

Strictly my opinion, it seems there has been long-term preparation for war in the South China Sea, with the Spratlys being at the center.  A few years ago in a State of the Union speech, Obama briefly mentioned the need to build up military presence in the region; this never made it to the re-played sound bite playlist, and I never heard of any sort of pundit pondering it.  Problem for China is none of the countries with shorelines will permit a naval base.  They might be able to buy off VN by agreeing to no longer challenge rights to the Paracels.  With Thailand they must provide $$$ and a fairly believable face-saving cover story.  This meatball in the Philippines might agree, but once he's gone....  And of course such a facility would be a strategic target for whoever China is fighting.

It's like a chess game, and they are still positioning their pieces.

 

[Srikcir]

39 minutes ago, bendejo said:

This meatball in the Philippines might agree

Duterte might not be all meatball.

 

While he believes he can reach an "accommodation" with China without violence (aka US armed forces), he is aware that China has ignored the arbitral ruling won by The Philippines in July 2016 against China for its claim of full possession of the South China Sea.

Latest is the Duterte wants a legally binding Sea Code that would provide for predictability needed for peace and stability in the contested sea. 

http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/11/16/17/duterte-wants-a-legally-binding-south-china-sea-code

 

Of course Duterte is counting on his "great relationship" with Trump to have the US armed forces back The Philippines.

[MyFriend You]

20 hours ago, klauskunkel said:

They have drones now..., for crying out loud

I see headlines already:

snubbed drone operator kills girlfriend and family with military drone. "She stopped to have sex with me, because  I drink too much, so I dropped a bunker buster on her house."

 

 

...........for testing purposes.

[MyFriend You]

This makes more sense than the cockamamy idea of having Prisoners in Thailand jails fabricate weapons.

[chama]

On 11/16/2017 at 4:58 AM, chainarong said:

An ill wind that blows , Thailand is dealing in waters over it's head and will I dare say regret at a later stage...............................

When one sleeps with the devil one should be prepared to get burned. China rarely backs a win-win scenario so looking behind the curtain one might find China has plans for Thailand that would only benefit China. Military junta....lots of new military toys and a lack of attention to social infrastructure. Time to learn how to spell "oops" and sharpen your Mandarin skills.

[ChouDoufu]

thailand needs an aircraft carrier.

[Jonah Tenner]

47 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

thailand needs an aircraft carrier.

One more?