Regarding 'Fruit Wine'.

[khaepmu]

I met an Australian who is involved with local Thai wines producers. He suspects that many of the so called fruit wines imported into Thailand aren't really fruit wines at all. The exporters only claim they are fruit wines so they can get the reduced tax benefit. They are actually cheap table -type wines. But real wine.  According to him, the Thais can't possible check all the fruit wines coming into Thailand to see if a certain amount of fruit juice has been added. And the wine manufacturers find it cheaper to export the real wine than to add the fruit juices to it. I know that some of the fruit wines that I have had in Thailand do not taste any different from some of the inexpensive tables wines I have had from Australia, the US and France. In fact, if I were given a glass of some of the kinds of  fruit wine that I have bought in Thailand and a glass of a real table wine I don't think I would be able to tell the difference. 

 

Well, this is what he said anyway. It would be nice if it were true. As much as I hate to buy wine that says 'fruit wine' on the label, I have to admit that some of it is OK like Berri Estates, Castle Creek, Peter Vella and others. And Tesco Lotus has a real Australian red wine, not fruit wine,  that runs about 379. The Cabernet is really nice. Sorry but the name escapes me. Picture is a kangaroo on the label. By the way, I make no claims as to being any kind of wine expert.

[tonray]

OMG...the Great Fruit Wine Scandal of 2018 breaks before Christmas.....societal breakdown can't be far away

[Crossy]

Er, grapes are fruit aren't they?

 

Anyone tell I'm not a wine connoisseur?

 

[tonray]

22 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Er, grapes are fruit aren't they?

 

Anyone tell I'm not a wine connoisseur?

 

I think the distinction comes from the fact that the so called 'fruit wines' are augmented with straight fruit juice to keep costs down rather than fermented from real fruit into wine.

[Old Croc]

1 hour ago, khaepmu said:

And Tesco Lotus has a real Australian red wine, not fruit wine,  that runs about 379. The Cabernet is really nice. Sorry but the name escapes me. Picture is a kangaroo on the label.

Yellow Tail. Cheap wine developed in Australia for the American market. Drinkable, but not going to win any wine shows. Agree the Cab is good for the price.

 

[Crossy]

37 minutes ago, tonray said:

I think the distinction comes from the fact that the so called 'fruit wines' are augmented with straight fruit juice to keep costs down rather than fermented from real fruit into wine.

Yeah, I know, sadly there's no "tongue-planted-firmly-in-cheek" emoticon.

 

EDIT After a quick Google, apparently this is it:-

[Old Croc]

Tesco also has some Hardys Bin 53 reds at 399 baht. Better drinking than the Yellow Tail.

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, khaepmu said:

And Tesco Lotus has a real Australian red wine, not fruit wine,  that runs about 379. The Cabernet is really nice. Sorry but the name escapes me. Picture is a kangaroo on the label

It is 349 baht at the big Tesco Lotus here and 379 at the smaller outlets.......called Vineyards World Wines and is an ok swigger.

[xylophone]

On 17/12/2017 at 6:47 AM, khaepmu said:

He suspects that many of the so called fruit wines imported into Thailand aren't really fruit wines at all. The exporters only claim they are fruit wines so they can get the reduced tax benefit. They are actually cheap table -type wines. But real wine.  According to him, the Thais can't possible check all the fruit wines coming into Thailand to see if a certain amount of fruit juice has been added

Not wishing to disrespect the poster, but I think the operative words in the post are "he suspects......"

 

If you stop to think about this for a while, then the company/companies, many of which are based in Australia and are engaging in this illegal practice, if found out, would quite possibly face local and international ruin, and at the least a huge fine and reputational and brand risk.

 

Sure we have had the occasional "wine fraud" over the years, but they are so very few and far between compared to the many tens of thousands of wine producers worldwide, and nowadays, with oversight and testing techniques being what they are, something like this would not be worth the risk IMO.

[bleble]

Are you sure that fruit wines are not mixed in Thailand ? They receive real cheap wine from abroad and mix it with something to make it taste like sht, then sell it cheaper ?

 

 

[xylophone]

11 minutes ago, bleble said:

Are you sure that fruit wines are not mixed in Thailand ? They receive real cheap wine from abroad and mix it with something to make it taste like sht, then sell it cheaper ?

 

 

Some are made and mixed in Thailand, others imported as finished articles with the fact that the wine is a mix of grapes and fruit/fruit juice and clearly stated on the box/label..........not so with the Thai produced ones which don't disclose it openly!!

[Laza 45]

Check the tax label on the top of the bottle... blue label is for 'real wine' and generally more expensive because of the tax.... orange label is for 'fruit wines'..  something that came about to make wine drinks like 'Spy' cheaper.. because they are lower alcohol and are a fruit drink rather then a 'wine'.. wine sellers have exploited this loophole to sell cheaper wines.. I think khaepmu is probably correct in thinking that they don't always add the fruit juice...  'Nadin's' red (from Tesco) is drinkable and I don't detect a different taste from other cheap Australian wines.. also the 'Kookaburra' in the big 2 liter bottle  blue label' is good value..   Cheers... Merry Christmas!

[ExpatOilWorker]

13 minutes ago, Laza 45 said:

Check the tax label on the top of the bottle... blue label is for 'real wine' and generally more expensive because of the tax.... orange label is for 'fruit wines'..  something that came about to make wine drinks like 'Spy' cheaper.. because they are lower alcohol and are a fruit drink rather then a 'wine'.. wine sellers have exploited this loophole to sell cheaper wines.. I think khaepmu is probably correct in thinking that they don't always add the fruit juice...  'Nadin's' red (from Tesco) is drinkable and I don't detect a different taste from other cheap Australian wines.. also the 'Kookaburra' in the big 2 liter bottle  blue label' is good value..   Cheers... Merry Christmas!

Below is a fruit wine with with the blue tax label. It is mixed in Australia, hence the blue label.

[Laza 45]

20 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Below is a fruit wine with with the blue tax label. It is mixed in Australia, hence the blue label.

...that seems to blow that theory.. so what is the difference in blue and orange tax labels??... just did a search... this article sheds some light.. but still confusing..  "Imported wines – even fruit wines – carry a blue sticker, while local wines have a yellow sticker."...   http://www.thebigchilli.com/news/fruit-wine-is-it-for-real

[iang]

56 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Below is a fruit wine with with the blue tax label. It is mixed in Australia, hence the blue label.

My understanding is that this specific pictured 'wine' is actually bottled in Vietnam, using a fruit wine cocktail of Australian wine + pineapple juice. Yet is still labeled as being Australian!

Edited December 19, 2017 by iang
Mis spelling

[gusincebu]

My understanding is that this specific pictured 'wine' is actually bottled in Vietnam, using a fruit wine cocktail of Australian wine + pineapple juice. Yet is still labeled as being Australian!

And claiming to be 12.5% alc volume , even though that is on the high side of an unblended Australian wine ( usually 11 to 12 % ) ..
Would have thought the addition of juices would reduce alc content.
I guess you can't believe everything you read on the label .

Sent from my SM-T535 using Tapatalk

[Laza 45]

44 minutes ago, gusincebu said:

 

And claiming to be 12.5% alc volume , even though that is on the high side of an unblended Australian wine ( usually 11 to 12 % ) ..
Would have thought the addition of juices would reduce alc content.
I guess you can't believe everything you read on the label .

Sent from my SM-T535 using Tapatalk
 

 

My thought too..  if 12.5 %..  I'm no connoisseur but 20% pineapple juice wouldn't fool me or anyone who drinks a bit of wine..  

[iang]

42 minutes ago, Laza 45 said:

My thought too..  if 12.5 %..  I'm no connoisseur but 20% pineapple juice wouldn't fool me or anyone who drinks a bit of wine..  

I believe it's fermented pineapple juice, just like the other non-grape fruit juices are fermented, hence there fruit wine like OTOP fruit wines. As the fermented juice is not grape juice, it still qualifies for the lower tax rate.

[AlQaholic]

Stop the wining already.....

I had banana wine once, it tasted excellent.

Edited December 19, 2017 by AlQaholic

[SunsetT]

If u r desperate I just discovered 14% Japanese saki/rice wine for cooking in Makro for 139thb....haha! I just tried a sip when I got home and it's actually OK.....more like sherry than wine though; quite warming which went down well as it is fracking cold in Nakhon Phanom at the moment at 18C and blowing a hoolie!  My normally shady and cool apartment is like a frigging fridge! I actually bought it to add a drop to gai pad king or bla pad king. I use ginger wine in the UK but you cant get it here.....Arroy!

[iang]

7 minutes ago, iang said:

I believe it's fermented pineapple juice, just like the other non-grape fruit juices are fermented, hence there fruit wine like OTOP fruit wines. As the fermented juice is not grape juice, it still qualifies for the lower tax rate.

Check out 

 

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, Laza 45 said:

Check the tax label on the top of the bottle... blue label is for 'real wine' and generally more expensive because of the tax.... orange label is for 'fruit wines'..  something that came about to make wine drinks like 'Spy' cheaper.. because they are lower alcohol and are a fruit drink rather then a 'wine'.. wine sellers have exploited this loophole to sell cheaper wines.. I think khaepmu is probably correct in thinking that they don't always add the fruit juice...  'Nadin's' red (from Tesco) is drinkable and I don't detect a different taste from other cheap Australian wines.. also the 'Kookaburra' in the big 2 liter bottle  blue label' is good value..   Cheers... Merry Christmas!

Wine from OZ, mixed with fruit juice will have the blue sticker cos its imported and the appropriate tax paid.

 

Wine mixed with fruit juice or a fruit addition (Hibiscus) and produced in Thailand will have an orange label.

 

The fruit juice appears to be added to the grape crush and then fermented so not easy to detect fruit juice per se (Kookaburra has fruit juice in the mix).

 

Quote: "I think khaepmu is probably correct in thinking that they don't always add the fruit juice". Almost certainly incorrect because of the HUGE risk involved for the producer.

 

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, gusincebu said:

 

And claiming to be 12.5% alc volume , even though that is on the high side of an unblended Australian wine ( usually 11 to 12 % ) ..
Would have thought the addition of juices would reduce alc content.
I guess you can't believe everything you read on the label .

Sent from my SM-T535 using Tapatalk
 

 

Oz red wines these day are usually in the 12.5 to 14% range and as I have said the fruit juice is fermented with the grape crush so the alcohol content isn't affected.

 

Pineapple and passion fruit juice for the white wines produced in Vietnam, and juice of "dark fruits" for the red.

[Laza 45]

8 hours ago, xylophone said:

Wine from OZ, mixed with fruit juice will have the blue sticker cos its imported and the appropriate tax paid.

 

Wine mixed with fruit juice or a fruit addition (Hibiscus) and produced in Thailand will have an orange label.

 

The fruit juice appears to be added to the grape crush and then fermented so not easy to detect fruit juice per se (Kookaburra has fruit juice in the mix).

 

Quote: "I think khaepmu is probably correct in thinking that they don't always add the fruit juice". Almost certainly incorrect because of the HUGE risk involved for the producer.

 

The whole exercise is a bit pointless if they add the fruit juice to the batch and ferment it.. this get weirder and weider.. 

[rickudon]

Just because most wine is made from grapes, doesn't mean you cannot make it from other products. I have made elderberry wine, apple wine, rice and raisin wine, apricot wine and peach wine. In the UK, in older days, wine was just a fermented drink stronger than beer (barley wine?) and a lot of people made it, with whatever was available.

 

I think Thailand, as an area where grapes do not grow easily in most of the country. is just trying to encourage local wine style drinks - mind you, some of those i have tried have a long way to go to be drinkable. Hence the blending with Grape juice, usually imported.

[xylophone]

41 minutes ago, rickudon said:

Just because most wine is made from grapes, doesn't mean you cannot make it from other products. I have made elderberry wine, apple wine, rice and raisin wine, apricot wine and peach wine. In the UK, in older days, wine was just a fermented drink stronger than beer (barley wine?) and a lot of people made it, with whatever was available.

 

I think Thailand, as an area where grapes do not grow easily in most of the country. is just trying to encourage local wine style drinks - mind you, some of those i have tried have a long way to go to be drinkable. Hence the blending with Grape juice, usually imported.

Very true you can make wine from just about anything, with varying degrees of success of course! 

 

The main theme running through threads like this about wine and the addition of fruit juice is the fact of virtual nondisclosure of the addition of fruit juice. This apart from many of those imported from Australia these days which clearly state it on the box/bottle, whereas those from Thailand may state "fruit wine", but hidden away wherever possible.

 

Wines such as Montclair (red) have the hibiscus fruit added to the imported grape juice and this helps them to get around certain taxes, so I don't think it's a case of trying to help the local market, more a case of finding a way to make money!

[iang]

12 hours ago, Laza 45 said:

The whole exercise is a bit pointless if they add the fruit juice to the batch and ferment it.. this get weirder and weider.. 

I guess it's not entirely pointless, as it qualifies the 'wine' for a lower tax rate, therefore a lower selling price. A loophole really. It's pointless though from the perspective of lowering alcoholic content, as it doesn't. 

 

I've also noted that on box wine or on the reverse labels of some bottles, they purposefully do not refer to the contents as "wine". They'll say things like "bold red" or "easy drinking red", but never actually call it "Red wine"!!!