Overstay with a twistok

[Dave8237]

Ok I will keep this to the basic facts, yesterday was speaking to a lad aged 17, he is Thai/British Thai mother brith father, went to live I up from the age a 3......

arrived in BKK on a one way ticket in November 2017, entered on an expired Thai passport, allowed entry told the immigration hour his mother was following in 2weeks, and he would renew his passport, as he wanted to stay a few months, hence not entering on his British passport.

So he tries to renew passport , but he can’t do it as under 20years old, requires documents from father and or mother, now here is the problem......he hasn’t seen his father in 10 years and he has had a major breakdown with his mother, hence why he came here.

He is currently with he grandparents here  in my local town, but now he wants to return to the UK, has a relative here who will pay for his return ticket, but he he can’t leave on his Thai as it’s expired and can’t renew it, he didn’t enter on his British one so he hasn’t technician arrived here......... we have a local immigration office in Amanant Chareon, 

I can’t advise him what to,do.............I think he’s dig himself a hole........ I have a couple of thoughts, but was wondering what others thought.......

He is fully aware he’s done it all wrong, but we all make silly errors of judgement

 

 

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

He certainly has a problem since he can only depart the country with a Thai passport since that is what he used for entry.

Since he over 14 he can apply for the Thai passport without a parent being present. He would only need a letter of consent from his parents. If he got consent from one them and explained the problem the passport office might accept it.

He could try departing at a border crossing where their would be no airline or etc involved. He might be able to convince them to allow him to depart on the UK passport but he might have to pay a overstay fine of 20k baht to it. I would suggest he have a member of the family here with him when he does it. if successful he could enter the other country and come back on his UK passport. 

[jackdd]

Does he have a Thai id card? Then he could leave the country on a land border with a border pass. But i don't know if he could leave for example Laos at the Airport if he came to the country with the border pass.

[Dave8237]

His problem with his parents consent , has not seen his father in year and no idea where he is in the UK, and  has had a big bust up with his mother, and they are not speaking, she is in the UK.

 

One good thing, if anything he has a current valid Thai ID card..........Boarder cross into Laos, here in Mukdahan, on the id card and re enter on British Passport, but that would show up on Laos and Thai immigration that he has used two different forms of ID to leave and re enter, and has a possibilty of complicating the problem........

[Dave8237]

6 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Does he have a Thai id card? Then he could leave the country on a land border with a border pass. But i don't know if he could leave for example Laos at the Airport if he came to the country with the border pass.

Yes he has.........but when he returns or goes eleswhere on his British passport he cant prove where he has come from.....if you see what I mean

[jackdd]

Yes of course, officially this is not possible, but officially it shouldn't have been possible to enter Thailand with an expired passport for him in the first place.

If he lives near the border anyway he could just give it a try... first i would try to leave with the expired passport, maybe they allow it. If they refuse this, leave Thailand with a border pass, and try to enter Laos with the British passport. If they refuse this, enter Laos with the border pass. Then try to leave Laos with the British passport. Always talk nice, explain the situation, offer a tip, maybe at one point they will allow to use a passport

If this all fails, he obviously has to somehow get a new passport.

 

[Lite Beer]

1 minute ago, jackdd said:

Yes of course, officially this is not possible, but officially it shouldn't have been possible to enter Thailand with an expired passport for him in the first place.

 

 

Any Thai can enter Thailand with an expired Thai Passport.

[Dave8237]

Just now, Lite Beer said:

Any Thai can enter Thailand with an expired Thai Passport.

yes correct same as me going back to the UK on an expired passport, you can enter your HOME country no problem

[Colabamumbai]

1 hour ago, Dave8237 said:

yes correct same as me going back to the UK on an expired passport, you can enter your HOME country no problem

Good information thank you

[Suradit69]

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

Officially this is not possible, but officially it shouldn't have been possible to enter Thailand with an expired passport for him in the first place.

Not true. A Thai citizen can enter on an expired Thai passport. 

[BEVUP]

So why couldn't he enter Lao with a Boarder Pass (good for 3 day I think ) since he has no Thai passport ?

 

& then as suggested leave on english one 

[jackdd]

39 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

Not true. A Thai citizen can enter on an expired Thai passport. 

Good that you repeat it, in case somebody didn't saw the other 2 answers before yours, saying the same

 

3 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

So why couldn't he enter Lao with a Boarder Pass (good for 3 day I think ) since he has no Thai passport ?

 

& then as suggested leave on english one 

Afaik "normally" you have to leave with the passport with which you arrived (Or in case with the border pass, come with border pass, leave with border pass)

If it would be possible to leave with another passport he could just leave Thailand with his British passport and wouldn't have a problem.

[Mattd]

5 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

So why couldn't he enter Lao with a Boarder Pass (good for 3 day I think ) since he has no Thai passport ?

 

& then as suggested leave on english one 

I am not sure that this would work, as it is highly probable that if enters Laos using his Thai ID card he will have to depart using the same, when trying to enter Thailand on his British passport there will be no departure stamp from Laos, so they might refuse entry, I am led to understand that the Thai land borders do check for the departure stamp when entering Thailand?

[Dave8237]

7 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

So why couldn't he enter Lao with a Boarder Pass (good for 3 day I think ) since he has no Thai passport ?

 

& then as suggested leave on english one 

But he cant leave on an English passport as he has no Laos visa in his passport..........he only has his 3 day boarder pass, 

[BEVUP]

8 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Good that you repeat it, in case somebody didn't saw the other 2 answers before yours, saying the same

 

Afaik "normally" you have to leave with the passport with which you arrived (Or in case with the border pass, come with border pass, leave with border pass)

If it would be possible to leave with another passport he could just leave Thailand with his British passport and wouldn't have a problem.

Ok, but on that note since he is dual Citz can' he just hold onto his Boarding pass with the exit stamp out of Lao & show them & enter wit UK passport

Edited January 22, 2018 by BEVUP

[Dave8237]

3 minutes ago, Mattd said:

I am not sure that this would work, as it is highly probable that if enters Laos using his Thai ID card he will have to depart using the same, when trying to enter Thailand on his British passport there will be no departure stamp from Laos, so they might refuse entry, I am led to understand that the Thai land borders do check for the departure stamp when entering Thailand?

Correct........its a catch 22, yes he can go to Laos with his ID card no problem, but he cant explain his UK passport when he shows to Thai immigration where he has been........t

[jackdd]

6 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

Ok, but on that note since he is dual Citz can' he just hold onto his Boarding pass with the exit stamp out of Lao & show them & enter wit UK passport

This border pass thing is kind of different from a passport, you don't really leave Thailand, and you don't really enter Laos (of course you do, but not in their systems :p).

When you use the border pass you don't have an exit stamp, and you also don't have to fill out an arrival card when you go into Laos, or one when you go back into Thailand.

The border pass is just a kind of exemptions or permit that allows you to stay in the other country for a limited amount of time.

 

I'm not 100%, but if i remember correctly you apply for the border pass on the Thai side, they give you this piece of paper (the border pass). When you go to Laos they just have a look at this form and let you in the country. When you come back you just show the form again, are free to walk out of Laos and into Thailand. Your stay in Laos is never really registered.

Edited January 22, 2018 by jackdd

[Dave8237]

3 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

Ok, but on that note since he is dual Citz can' he just hold onto his Boarding pass with the exit stamp out of Lao & show them & enter wit UK passport

Well this is the problem, no one know's, if he tries it and it works, great stuff.........but if it goes Tits.........what is Thai Immigration going to do, refuse him entry on grounds of deception.......turn him back to Laos, Laos refuse him entry on the same grounds............

[Eff1n2ret]

What would happen if his parents were dead? I'm not suggesting that he lie to the authorities but why doesn't he, with his grandparents' support, just go to the passport office, explain that he's lost contact with his parents and submit an application for renewal? It's not as if it's his first application or that he's trying to run away from his parents in Thailand.

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:

What would happen if his parents were dead?

If that was the case a family member would of been granted legal custody which would allow them to the right to sign the form.

[offset]

Could he go to Laos and then go to the UK on his UK passport he has prove of entering Laos not come back to Thailand

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, offset said:

Could he go to Laos and then go to the UK on his UK passport he has prove of entering Laos not come back to Thailand

How would he depart Thailand and enter Laos on his UK passport?

[charliebadenhop]

I know nothing about this specific problem,

 

But my daughter who is a dual national- Japanese and American, often leaves Japan using her Japanese passport, and enters the US with her US passport, all on the same trip. And then switches the routine coming back. 

 

No one had ever looked for stamps, to see where she has been. Neither Japanese or US authorities. 

[Mattd]

2 minutes ago, offset said:

Could he go to Laos and then go to the UK on his UK passport he has prove of entering Laos not come back to Thailand

I seriously doubt that, he will have to depart Laos using the same document he entered on, no different to Thailand.

His current options are severely limited right now, TBH, he may have to swallow his pride and talk with his mother, this is about the only chance he has of getting a new Thai passport, otherwise he is stuck until he is 20.

[Mattd]

2 minutes ago, charliebadenhop said:

I know nothing about this specific problem,

 

But my daughter who is a dual national- Japanese and American, often leaves Japan using her Japanese passport, and enters the US with her US passport, all on the same trip. And then switches the routine coming back. 

 

No one had ever looked for stamps, to see where she has been. Neither Japanese or US authorities. 

This is the standard way for dual citizens, the issue is that the lad doesn't have a valid Thai passport to be able to depart Thailand with and he is too young to apply for a new Thai passport in his own right, he cannot depart Thailand on his British passport because he did not enter using it.

[rockingrobin]

I don't see the problem

The person is legally in Thailand 

The issue of not entering on his UK passport is irrelevant. The British passport could have easily been obtained whilst he was resident in Thailand .

On departing from the Thai side, if queried by immigration or the airline, just show the expired Thai passport/ ID  as proof of legal residence in Thailand

[charliebadenhop]

I understand what you are saying Matt,

 

And to be sure we are on the same page- I am fairly certain that neither government knows she is holding dual citizenship, or one or both countries would try and make her renounce the "other" citizenship.

 

When she enters the US on her US passport, I have been assuming that the US side cannot see that she just left Japan on her Japanese passport.

 

And then- 

Can't the boy go to Cambodia using his Thai ID card and then fly out of Cambodia as a Brit?

 

??

[Kieran00001]

I wasn't aware it was possible for a child to enter on one of their dual passports, whenever I have entered with my dual national son they always scan both his passports.

[Mattd]

1 minute ago, charliebadenhop said:

Can't the boy go to Cambodia using his Thai ID card and then fly out of Cambodia as a Brit?

He would have to depart Cambodia using his Thai ID card, as this would be how he entered.

[charliebadenhop]

Hi Kieran,

Not sure if you are replying to me, but

 

When my daughter was quite young she left Japan with her J passport, and then with me standing by her at the window she entered the US with her US passport. Neither side ever did dual scanning of passports.