How Can A Farang Become A Monk

[james007]

I'd like to spend 3-7 days as a monk (is it called novice?). I have practiced meditation for 20+ years with so much more to learn. My Thai is okay but not good enough for instruction so I am wondering if there is a place where English is spoken?

Thank you!

[tycann]

Hmm... I don't know what kind of responses you'll get from abbots when telling them you wish to ordain for such a short period. Most farang monks enter the order for much longer. It has become commonplace for Thais to ordain for such a short period, in the aim of generating merit for their parents, but as this is not a cultural value of farangs, some may see your desire to ordain as a tourist thing, and not worth the effort of him having to perform the ordination ceremony. Have you considered not ordaining but going on a meditation retreat at a forest monestary instead? There you would follow the same routine as monks, and have the full 'monkish' experience, just without the orange robe. There are tons of places you can go for a short retreat (see the pinned topic regarding retreat centers in this subforum). I highly doubt you would learn more ordaining for 3-7 days than you would going on a serious retreat. But, if you are intent on wearing the robe, you could inquire at major BKK temples, such as Wat Mahathat, wherein many monks speak English. You could drop by section 5, the meditation-for-farangs section, and inform them that you would like to ordain. They'll probably tell you the same thing I have though.

[Jet Gorgon]

Try Suan Mokkh. Ajarn Poh will help you.

[james007]

Hmm... I don't know what kind of responses you'll get from abbots when telling them you wish to ordain for such a short period. Most farang monks enter the order for much longer. It has become commonplace for Thais to ordain for such a short period, in the aim of generating merit for their parents, but as this is not a cultural value of farangs, some may see your desire to ordain as a tourist thing, and not worth the effort of him having to perform the ordination ceremony. Have you considered not ordaining but going on a meditation retreat at a forest monestary instead? There you would follow the same routine as monks, and have the full 'monkish' experience, just without the orange robe. There are tons of places you can go for a short retreat (see the pinned topic regarding retreat centers in this subforum). I highly doubt you would learn more ordaining for 3-7 days than you would going on a serious retreat. But, if you are intent on wearing the robe, you could inquire at major BKK temples, such as Wat Mahathat, wherein many monks speak English. You could drop by section 5, the meditation-for-farangs section, and inform them that you would like to ordain. They'll probably tell you the same thing I have though.

Thanks. Great advice...

[Brucenkhamen]

I'd like to spend 3-7 days as a monk (is it called novice?). I have practiced meditation for 20+ years with so much more to learn. My Thai is okay but not good enough for instruction so I am wondering if there is a place where English is spoken?

Thank you!

I agree with everything tycann has said, but I'm also wondering why you'd want to ordain for 3-7 days when you've had 20+ years meditation experience (unless it's 10 minutes here and 10 minutes there).

I feel such short ordinations do nothing but cheapen the monastic tradition. I wish Thais didn't do it and has nothing to do with buddhist teaching and everything to do with thai culture, but you can't fight thai culture.

[the gent]

If you wish to ostracise yourself then simply pootle off to any temple and doss down for the week. I'm sure they wouldn't mind provided you bunged them some food and fags and kept your head down. What may pass between your ears is of course,as they say, up to you.....

[bankei]

I ordained early last year. Initially I wanted to stay just for 7 days, but the abbot wanted me to put in 15 days, which I agreed on. I had to stay in the temple for about 7 days before this while trying to memorise the chanting and learning the ropes. I couldn't speak much Thai and no one spoke any English there, but I got through it and it was a great experience.

With the ordination you have the option of just ordaining as a novice or going for the full monk (upasampada) ceremony. The novice ceremony is not that serious and I was told I could have been ordained straight away and could even read the chanting (ie not memorise). But the Bhikkhu ordination is very serious and you must memorise the whole lot - which is considerable as you must memorise the novice part too. No notes can be read.

At first I could not even pronounce the Pali. It was very difficult and I wanted to give up, but luckily some monks pushed me and I was able to memorise it in 5 days. I was told Thais take from 1 day to 2 weeks to memorise it all. pronunciation is also very important, and they will insist you pronounce the Pali in the Thai way. eg Dhamma sounds like Thamma etc.

Just get one of your Thai friends or relatives to help you find a temple and give it a shot.

Bankei

[tycann]

At first I could not even pronounce the Pali.

Thais can't pronounce Pali anyway. Just ask the Sri Lankans or the Bangladeshis. whose native languages are a hel_l of a lot closer to Pali than the Thais!

Edited January 24, 2007 by tycann

[Jonsam]

A meditation retreat sounds like a good idea, but if your intent is to ordain as a monk, then you should ordain as a monk. It will give you insight that meditation may not. If your goal is to get better at meditating rather than having a specific religious experience, then go for the retreat. Perhaps at larger, touristy temples they may be hesitant to ordain you, I don't know. The number one requisite in becoming a monk is that the ordainee wishes to do so. There are other important requisites too, of course, such as being a human. If you really want to, a monk will ordain you. Period.

I've ordained both in Thailand and at a Thai temple in America, first as a novice and later again as a full fledged monk for 15 days. The abbot suggested to me that I should not ordain again for less than one pansaa (3 months Lent period), still a relatively small period of time by some accounts. While the practice of ordaining for short periods of time is mainly a Thai (and presumably Lao and Khmer) phenomenon, I don't see how that should cause second thoughts. If you ordain just remember that Buddhism is a very personal (or non-personal) experience, and while you will learn plenty from other monks you do not necessarily need to make examples of them for yourself.

I think short ordinations is a great cultural practice. Of course, sourrounding the practice, some people do some not so great things too, but that's a different story. When I was a monk in America, another monk from a Mahayana temple came to us with a box of free books (check out BuddhaNet.Net!!!) and since he was an American I was made official communicator. I told him about the Thai tradition of short lived ordinations and his immediate response was "Have you ever heard of the five-minute monk?" I asked what that meant and he explained that five minutes spent as a monk, karmically speaking, is like a 100 lifetimes as a good person, or something like that. Definitely a thought provoking comment coming from someone who's religious culture does not allow such ordinations.

Another great option can be to ordain as a phram, which literally translates as Brahmin Priest. This consists of taking only 8 vows as opposed to the novice's 10 or monks 227, and wearing all white clothing instead of monks' robes. You still meditate and do chores with the monks, and can certainly help a monk carry alms on morning rounds (meditate while doing this, by the way!), and you also would not eat hard foods after noon. You could also sleep at the temple. Females are also allowed to do this, although I'm not sure if a different word is used to describe it.

[buddhafly]

i'd like to give myself up to whatever the senior monks thought for a month or 3. ive lived in thailand for 6 years and speak intermediate thai i guess. but i dont want to go to one of the big temples in bangkok, and not into chiang mai.

anybody have a specific recommend of a monk or temple in chiang rai or smaller provinces?