50 Hz vs 60Hz

[HeijoshinCool]

Building a house in the States and intend on taking back a few on demand water heaters. Much cheaper in LOS with wide selection.

 

Can the higher hertz significantly shorten its lifespan?

[bankruatsteve]

I don't know that 60hz would affect a shower unit?  You do know it would need 220-240v (from both sides of the 1/2 phase input and no neutral).  But there must be on-demand electric showers available in the states which would be better.  (?)

[KhunBENQ]

1 hour ago, bankruatsteve said:

you do know it would need 220-240v

Case closed

Will not work.

Best case: lukewarm.

Worst case: control electronics (phase fired, thyristor) won't work at all. Cold water.

Edited August 10, 2018 by KhunBENQ

[HeijoshinCool]

 there must be on-demand electric showers available in the states which would be better. 

 

On demand hot water units here start at $600 and aren't aesthetically pleasing. They are bare bones and don't come with the showerhead. They are bulky and ugly and only two brands are readily available at the big box stores. Neither are ones I ever heard of. The units at the wholesale electrical are ridiculous prices and just as ugly. The Panasonics and Mitsubishis I bought in LOS were all under $150, and include everything but the earthing rod.

 

As a sidenote, the Mitsubishi a/c I installed in my house in LOS, I paid 14,000 baht for it. The exact same unit here costs $3790. 

 

Lowe's recently started selling a bum gun. Wanna know how much? 

 

$96.

 

And they act like they invented it. ?

 

I'll be buying a few of those to bring back, too. 

 

3rd world country my a$$.

 

 

 

 

   2 hours ago,  bankruatsteve said: 

you do know it would need 220-240v

Case closed 

Will not work.

Best case: lukewarm.

Worst case: control electronics (phase fired, thyristor) won't work at all. Cold water.

 

All American houses have 220, for many things: central hot water and range among them. Some condos with elevators have only 208. So no problem. In fact, my house will actually have 3-phase as I have heavy duty woodworking machinery going in my shop.

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

Shower heaters are a purely resistive load, so no issues with the 60/50 hz there. However, the electronics that control the shower may or may not like it. My advice is to just buy locally because it's really not worth the hassle. Believe me I've travelled a lot and it's not worth the bother. The only time I shipped electrical goods was a few items from the UK to Thailand as the electrical systems are basically identical as far as the appliance is concerned.

Edited August 10, 2018 by NilSS

[HeijoshinCool]

4 hours ago, NilSS said:

Shower heaters are a purely resistive load, so no issues with the 60/50 hz there. However, the electronics that control the shower may or may not like it. My advice is to just buy locally because it's really not worth the hassle. Believe me I've travelled a lot and it's not worth the bother. The only time I shipped electrical goods was a few items from the UK to Thailand as the electrical systems are basically identical as far as the appliance is concerned.

 

Thanks for the input.

 

I don't imagine the difference would affect the switch, but, hey, this time I'll just buy one and try it for 6 months. If it's no good, no biggie. If it's the Energizer Bunny of heaters, I'll buy more and save a lot of money.

[Crossy]

If you can find one with a simple on/off heater control (no fancy electronics) it will work with no issues on a US 220V/240V supply @60Hz. Look for a unit with no electronic temperature control or a stepped control.

 

Thyristor/triac controls will likely work just fine on 60Hz or they may not. Try it and see.

 

Of course then there's the task of getting it installed to code ?

 

[longball53098]

IMHO the Thai purchased device will not be able to be wired using USA residential wiring. A home CU has 2 hot legs of 120 volts with a neutral. The CU is wired to use one or the other hot leg and a neutral plus earth to supply 120 volts for ordinary device use. Any appliance (ex. clothes dryer) needing 240 volts uses both legs with a neutral plus an earth for the device (ex. clothes dryer) to operate correctly.

A Thai shower heater needs a single hot leg of 220 volts with neutral and an earth.

 

I think the unit cannot be wired correctly and get the needed supply voltage.

 

 

[bankruatsteve]

29 minutes ago, longball53098 said:

IMHO the Thai purchased device will not be able to be wired using USA residential wiring. A home CU has 2 hot legs of 120 volts with a neutral. The CU is wired to use one or the other hot leg and a neutral plus earth to supply 120 volts for ordinary device use. Any appliance (ex. clothes dryer) needing 240 volts uses both legs with a neutral plus an earth for the device (ex. clothes dryer) to operate correctly.

A Thai shower heater needs a single hot leg of 220 volts with neutral and an earth.

 

I think the unit cannot be wired correctly and get the needed supply voltage.

 

 

In the states, neutral usually only goes to 220v appliances if they also use 110v.  Otherwise, the two 'hot' are what's needed for 220v.  If the frequency difference is not a concern, 220v is 220v and should not be a problem.

[HeijoshinCool]

17 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

In the states, neutral usually only goes to 220v appliances if they also use 110v.  Otherwise, the two 'hot' are what's needed for 220v.  If the frequency difference is not a concern, 220v is 220v and should not be a problem.

.

That is correct. I recently wired a new cooktop that only needed the three wires of the old four-wire cooktop. Just nutted off the neutral.

 

Same applies here.

 

If you can find one with a simple on/off heater control (no fancy electronics) it will work with no issues on a US 220V/240V supply @60Hz. Look for a unit with no electronic temperature control or a stepped control.

 

Thyristor/triac controls will likely work just fine on 60Hz or they may not. Try it and see.

 

Of course then there's the task of getting it installed to code 

 

So a stepped thermostat could be a problem? Aren't some of them mechanical, rather than electrical?

 

In Texas, you can build what you want, without inspections, in the counties. Needs to be code in municipal areas, though. 

 

Two hots and a ground is code.

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2018 by HeijoshinCool
Spell chucker

[Fruit Trader]

15 hours ago, HeijoshinCool said:

On demand hot water units here start at $600 and aren't aesthetically pleasing. They are bare bones and don't come with the showerhead. They are bulky and ugly and only two brands are readily available at the big box stores.

Maybe in the US its more about hiding the ugly heater away and feeding some nice shower fittings. The all in one open vented shower boxes appear to be less popular and might explain the low demand high prices.

12000 Baht for STIEBEL 12kw multipoint in Thailand

 

Home Depot cart for 12kw electronically controlled multi point water heater.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

23 hours ago, HeijoshinCool said:

Building a house in the States and intend on taking back a few on demand water heaters

Just get a 120v unit then no problem 

$110

[VocalNeal]

have a look at online Brazilian ones? 127 volt 

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

^^^ See? Hassle hassle hassle.

[mogandave]

In the US i think your best bet is a gas-fired whole-house heater.

[HeijoshinCool]

2 hours ago, mogandave said:

In the US i think your best bet is a gas-fired whole-house heater.

.

 

Thanks.

 

I like gas. It will be in the kitchen, unlike most homes in the States.

 

But...

 

In a small house, gas water heaters work well. In a large house, they work hard, and waste a lot of fuel because of the long runs of pipe.

 

They also waste fuel, from constantly heating when the hot water is not needed. And in Texas and Florida, where I'll be building, they fight the a/c by heating up the closet. Or, if in the garage, they raise the already high heat there.

 

I'm not much for "instant" this or that, or the plethora of "on demand" things nowadays. Heating water is one exception if for no other reason than it saves money.

[mogandave]

.
 
Thanks.
 
I like gas. It will be in the kitchen, unlike most homes in the States.
 
But...
 
In a small house, gas water heaters work well. In a large house, they work hard, and waste a lot of fuel because of the long runs of pipe.
 
They also waste fuel, from constantly heating when the hot water is not needed. And in Texas and Florida, where I'll be building, they fight the a/c by heating up the closet. Or, if in the garage, they raise the already high heat there.
 
I'm not much for "instant" this or that, or the plethora of "on demand" things nowadays. Heating water is one exception if for no other reason than it saves money.

Point of use only saves money if you don’t use much hot water. If you live by yourself fine, but with a family taking long showered or baths and washing dishes, not so much.

With new construction it is easy recirculate such that the hot water is instant in every location.

A water heater’s shell is not hot. If installed correctly, waste heat vents out through the roof, it does not heat up the house.