18 traditions shortlisted for national cultural heritage list

[Yinn]

7 minutes ago, petemoss said:

I was asking "Where does it say that we can't discuss what's on the list?"

 

In Issan, a lot less HiSo people than in Central Thailand. Probably because there are a lt less Thai Chin.

Sorry I misunderstood. I still do. 55555

 

you know a lot of hiso people? Real hiso?

Or just so-so who act hiso?

 

issan have a lot of good culture, so does other region. Issan has the best music. I like the food, but not eat the insects, dog, raw meat.

[from the home of CC]

15 hours ago, Lenny Jones said:

Very simple Yinn.  Most of us come from "outside" Thailand where reality plays an important part.  Most of us come here to enjoy the good side of Thailand.

 

That doesn't need much comment

 

It is the false circus side that exists here that prompts what you perceive as negative comments that is brought to attention constantly.

 

Thailand has some very big problems.  One of them is the refusal to accept what is wrong.  Instead of accepting that and doing something about it, smoke and mirrors get put up everywhere.  Ministers for This and That.  Daily propaganda by the "leaders" telling everybody how good it is when it is NOT.

 

You're a Thai person who has joined a group specifically for farang.  We think and speak differently due to our up-bringing in different parts of the world.  We are an INTERNATIONAL community - trying to tell Thailand what is wrong - - - -

pure bs to think where u come from doesn't have similar issues, go fix those first before crowing about it here..

[from the home of CC]

2 hours ago, Myran said:

But here on Thai Visa it is literally in the comment section of every single news article. It doesn't matter how positive or inspiring the article is, someone will always find a way to bash Thailand and complain about how bad it is (not saying you're doing this). It's getting old, real old.

 

It doesn't matter what anyone does or doesn't do – it's always wrong or they always have ulterior motives. We've got the same type of immigrants in my own country, who do nothing but complain and talk about how bad of a country it is. Well if it's so bad, <deleted> off (again, not directed at you, mate).

About 5 ago I had to take a sabbatical from TV for it was aggravating me, too many racist ignorant posers. It really hasn't changed but I have, realizing most of the these people live sad pathetic lives mostly in their own minds. They come from countries that are self destructing but have the gall to 'instruct' how the Thais should live their lives. That hypocrisy is staggering..

[Date Masamune]

Driving at night with no lights( on purpose).

Soi Dogs (In what other country does a rabid dog
In the street have more rights that a human being?)

Ice cream served on white bread.

[ZeVonderBearz]

2 hours ago, Yinn said:

http://ich.culture.go.th/index.php/en/ich/performing-arts?start=10

Wow, it's already there!? Whenever Ive gone to the showcases of Thai culture that are aimed at tourists it's always performing arts that'd be found in palaces or temples - Lanna dancing or the chinese-esque music played on xylophone-esque instruments. Showcasing something more easy to grasp for farang, such as molam, would be more fun.

[Genmai]

Seems like we’ve got a perfect example of some real Thai cultural heritage in practice here!

 

9 hours ago, Yinn said:

Only critisize and complain about everything.

 

Look, here’s the deal. And I can’t believe I have to actually point this out to you but here it is. 99% of all people in this place (both Thai AND expats) will NEVER in their lives be affected by things like Tak’s “Klong Eud” barrel drum, or Chanthaburi’s “Dui Dui” kite-fighting or cute wooden frogs or any of the 18 things on that list. But with total certainty every single one of us is and continues to be affected everyday by:

 

-moronic driving

-lazy work ethics

-endless lies

-shoddy quality in just about everything

-endemic corruption

-aversion to accepting responsibility

-results of a circus-like ‘education’ system

-food with dangerous pesticide levels

-stupid attitudes to environmental pollution

-etc etc etc

 

Now, we all suffer these things. However they do not exist in a vacuum. These are features which are symptomatic and endemic of Thai culture – you know, the thing which is the topic of this thread yeah? The West with their Vietnam Wars and high visa fees is not to blame and has absolutely nothing to do with those negatives OR this topic.

 

Your replies are completely exemplary of another true Thai cultural heritage which is face-saving, shooting the messenger and getting salty when someone points out some of the above-mentioned shortcomings. But then I suppose some societies choose to be 4 years old and it must be sanuk-sanuk-happy-fun time all the time.

 

The truth is most of us have been here long enough to get tired of the lies and our tongue-in-cheek comments (which seem to have gone over your head) are indicative of our understanding that maybe, just maybe, there are priorities which should be placed higher than kite fighting and drum hitting – like trees in the middle of roads and Issan teenagers digging up mass graves of rabid dog corpses to eat.

 

16 hours ago, Yinn said:

About our culture that we are proud of. And none of you know about.

 

None of you guys know about it either. Come on, you really gonna tell me the average Thai person can go through that list of 18 traditions and find more than 1 or 2 things that they’ve actually heard of before?

 

Even yourself! @Justgrazing kindly suggested for you to bless us with your knowledge – you sent a link to the Intangible Cultural Heritage webpage and suggestion to go to Bangkok for the day??

 

Also – what exactly are you so proud of in terms of METRICS? Drums and kites – okay great. Can you name just 1 meaningful measurable statistic that is indicative of a healthy culture?  

 

9 hours ago, Yinn said:

This thred is to address farang grievances about Thailand?

 

I’ll tell you what it isn’t – it definitely is not a thread for you to crap all over Western nations and rant about things like the Vietnam War and how all farangs lie about it or how difficult it is for you to get a visa to Australia - all things which have 0 relevance to the topic at hand AND YET your comments are still being tolerated. I will say this again – this privileged double-standard you enjoy is ONLY because you are a novelty here and if it was anybody else pulling the same crap their posts would have been gone within 5 minutes. I honestly don’t understand why everyone is putting on some appearance and letting you walk all over the place like you’re special.

 

16 hours ago, Yinn said:

Why are you here if you hate us so much?

 

I'm here for the culture, of course!

 

But why are YOU on this forum if you get so triggered by our comments? If you don’t like the criticisms levied at your country – don’t read them!

[petemoss]

7 hours ago, Yinn said:

Sorry I misunderstood. I still do. 55555

 

you know a lot of hiso people? Real hiso?

Or just so-so who act hiso?

 

issan have a lot of good culture, so does other region. Issan has the best music. I like the food, but not eat the insects, dog, raw meat.

You are right, most of the HiSo people I know are so-so HiSo, or as I call them pseudo HiSo. Not nice people. I also agree about the food, Issan food not for me. Tam makhoon with ba ra, horrible.

[Orton Rd]

Lukrung should be listed it's more important than some of the entries like nora, maybe it's just not weird enough and too universal sounding.

Lovely Orawee

 

[nkg]

22 hours ago, Yinn said:

11 comment so far. All negative. Nothing positive.

if is a negative story, ok. But this is not. 

 

About our culture that we are proud of. And none of you know about.

 

Maybe your culture is to ridicule, mock, criticize and complain.

Everyday. Everything. Our culture, our religion, our people.

Sad people.

 

Why are you here if you hate us so much?

 

Yes, a lot of farang humour is based on satire, or mockery. When we say things like "driving through red lights is a Thai tradition", it is mostly meant as a joke. But I can understand that for somebody not brought up in a Western country, it might seem as a hateful remark.

 

Have a look at the discussions in "World News", you will see that Western people criticize and complain about their own country. "Ridicule, mock, criticize and complain" is a normal part of Western culture - and sometimes Thai culture, too.

 

Also, people behave differently on internet forums and real life. Most of the people saying "hateful things" in this thread are probably nice people when you meet them in real life.

 

 

[MartinL]

31 minutes ago, nkg said:

 

Have a look at the discussions in "World News", you will see that Western people criticize and complain about their own country. "Ridicule, mock, criticize and complain" is a normal part of Western culture - ...

 

 

In my own British culture, criticism and complaint has, through the centuries, frequently led to changes. That culture of complaint and criticism extends to foreigners too - many changes to British law (English and Scottish) have been the result of justified and reasonable complaints by foreigners.

 

Many of us continue this tradition of complaining into our time in Thailand in the mistaken hope that it might be acted upon - a forlorn hope. Of course, foreigners have no voice in Thailand and, in reality, we know our criticism falls on deaf ears. Lack of official reaction leads to ever increasing complaints from foreigners - a bit of a vicious circle resulting from frustration.

[Yinn]

2 hours ago, petemoss said:

You are right, most of the HiSo people I know are so-so HiSo, or as I call them pseudo HiSo. Not nice people. I also agree about the food, Issan food not for me. Tam makhoon with ba ra, horrible.

No,no. I really like issan food. Love it!

I just don’t eat the raw meat and insects. Also I don’t eat blaraa, because it bad for the liver cancer.

[Orton Rd]

Ramwong should definitely be on the list even if it was cobbled together by the PM and his Mrs in the 40's. Often there is a dance stage with the dancers having numbers on for some reason. You buy a book of tickets to give the dancers of your choice. This is a theatrical portrayal with the security guy chucking trouble makers off

 

 

[Yinn]

21 minutes ago, MartinL said:

 

In my own British culture, criticism and complaint has, through the centuries, frequently led to changes. 

How is your brexit going? 5555555 Every one complain and argue about that, but nothing happen. 

Sorry...

 

ps I know our government terrible also.

[Yinn]

Just now, Orton Rd said:

Ramwong should definitely be on the list even if it was cobbled together by the PM and his Mrs in the 40's. Often there is a dance stage with the dancers having numbers on for some reason. You buy a book of tickets to give the dancers of your choice. This is a theatrical portrayal with the security guy chucking trouble makers off

 

 

Make me happy to see you talk about thai culture. 

And not complain about the immigration, stupid Thai people etc on this thred.

 

Thankyou very much ka.

[Lenny Jones]

10 hours ago, Yinn said:

That is correct.

The farang lie to us about what they do. Lie so much about Vietnam war. 

They lie to everyone about that. 

 

https://pulitzercenter.org/reporting/how-us-secret-war-laos-still-happening-today

55555 ! - having traveled to many parts on this planet I can honestly say the greatest liars - people loose with the truth I have met - are Solomon Islanders - ANND - right behind them are THAIS! - 55555 !

[Yinn]

7 hours ago, Genmai said:

Seems like we’ve got a perfect example of some real Thai cultural heritage in practice here!

 

 

Look, here’s the deal. And I can’t believe I have to actually point this out to you but here it is. 99% of all people in this place (both Thai AND expats) will NEVER in their lives be affected by things like Tak’s “Klong Eud” barrel drum, or Chanthaburi’s “Dui Dui” kite-fighting or cute wooden frogs or any of the 18 things on that list. But with total certainty every single one of us is and continues to be affected everyday by:

 

-moronic driving

-lazy work ethics

-endless lies

-shoddy quality in just about everything

-endemic corruption

-aversion to accepting responsibility

-results of a circus-like ‘education’ system

-food with dangerous pesticide levels

-stupid attitudes to environmental pollution

-etc etc etc

 

Now, we all suffer these things. However they do not exist in a vacuum. These are features which are symptomatic and endemic of Thai culture – you know, the thing which is the topic of this thread yeah? The West with their Vietnam Wars and high visa fees is not to blame and has absolutely nothing to do with those negatives OR this topic.

 

Your replies are completely exemplary of another true Thai cultural heritage which is face-saving, shooting the messenger and getting salty when someone points out some of the above-mentioned shortcomings. But then I suppose some societies choose to be 4 years old and it must be sanuk-sanuk-happy-fun time all the time.

 

The truth is most of us have been here long enough to get tired of the lies and our tongue-in-cheek comments (which seem to have gone over your head) are indicative of our understanding that maybe, just maybe, there are priorities which should be placed higher than kite fighting and drum hitting – like trees in the middle of roads and Issan teenagers digging up mass graves of rabid dog corpses to eat.

 

 

None of you guys know about it either. Come on, you really gonna tell me the average Thai person can go through that list of 18 traditions and find more than 1 or 2 things that they’ve actually heard of before?

 

Even yourself! @Justgrazing kindly suggested for you to bless us with your knowledge – you sent a link to the Intangible Cultural Heritage webpage and suggestion to go to Bangkok for the day??

 

Also – what exactly are you so proud of in terms of METRICS? Drums and kites – okay great. Can you name just 1 meaningful measurable statistic that is indicative of a healthy culture?  

 

 

I’ll tell you what it isn’t – it definitely is not a thread for you to crap all over Western nations and rant about things like the Vietnam War and how all farangs lie about it or how difficult it is for you to get a visa to Australia - all things which have 0 relevance to the topic at hand AND YET your comments are still being tolerated. I will say this again – this privileged double-standard you enjoy is ONLY because you are a novelty here and if it was anybody else pulling the same crap their posts would have been gone within 5 minutes. I honestly don’t understand why everyone is putting on some appearance and letting you walk all over the place like you’re special.

 

 

I'm here for the culture, of course!

 

But why are YOU on this forum if you get so triggered by our comments? If you don’t like the criticisms levied at your country – don’t read them!

I am still learning English. 

Your post too long for me to understand.

But you sound very angry.

jai yen yen na pee!

[Orton Rd]

3 minutes ago, Yinn said:

Make me happy to see you talk about thai culture. 

And not complain about the immigration, stupid Thai people etc on this thred.

 

Thankyou very much ka.

One of my proudest moments in Thailand was when Sunaree Rachasima stood on stage at a big M150 concert and told the crowd I knew more about luktung than most Thai people, love her of course!

[Yinn]

1 minute ago, Lenny Jones said:

55555 ! - having traveled to many parts on this planet I can honestly say the greatest liars - people loose with the truth I have met - are Solomon Islanders - ANND - right behind them are THAIS! - 55555 !

We lie to make you comfortable. That different to lie about bomb Laos and Cambodia village people.

 

eg, if you smell bad, we say no problem. Say we can not smell it.  Because we don’t want you feel bad. Like that. 

 

If you say you never lie, I don’t believe you. You lie sure.

[Lenny Jones]

4 minutes ago, Yinn said:

I am still learning English. 

Your post too long for me to understand.

But you sound very angry.

jai yen yen na pee!

Thainess - - The great excuse - the Thais answer to everything - - - -

[Yinn]

4 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

One of my proudest moments in Thailand was when Sunaree Rachasima stood on stage at a big M150 concert and told the crowd I knew more about luktung than most Thai people, love her of course!

You should start the thai music thred. 

 You know a lot. I will help you.

thai love music and dance so much.

[MartinL]

2 minutes ago, Yinn said:

How is your brexit going? 5555555 Every one complain and argue about that, but nothing happen. 

Sorry...

 

ps I know our government terrible also.

On the contrary. Despite the British government and legislature being overwhelmingly in favour of remaining an EU member, the electorate - by however small a majority - decided that it wanted to leave the EU. The then-PM, Cameron, promised that the outcome of the Brexit referendum would be respected, even though he, personally, was in favour of remaining an EU member. The Leave vote led to his resignation. The government is acting -or, more accurately, is trying to act - upon the 'will of the people' and being frustrated at every turn. 

 

Not all decisions reached via the 'democratic process' are sensible but, nonetheless, the process continues and that process includes discussions and arguments among politicians AND the general populace. No banning of the discussion of a contentious issue in the case of Brexit.

[geoffbezoz]

4 minutes ago, Lenny Jones said:

55555 ! - having traveled to many parts on this planet I can honestly say the greatest liars - people loose with the truth I have met - are Solomon Islanders - ANND - right behind them are THAIS! - 55555 !

But the Soloman Islanders play rugby which suggest they play as a team, unlike Thais where it is self self self, just look at the way they plat any team sport, other that is then Ladies Volley ball.

By the way is it me, but I to have been fortunate enough to holiday in the Soloman Islands and also Fiji, and I noticed nearly all the women seemed to have very large feet.  Just me or did you notice that too ?

[Yinn]

1 minute ago, Lenny Jones said:

Thainess - - The great excuse - the Thais answer to everything - - - -

Not excuse. Write it thai for me and I will answer.

 

No time for your criticism, ridicule, complaining and mock. Now, this thred about thai culture.

[petemoss]

14 minutes ago, Yinn said:

We lie to make you comfortable.

True. The first time I came to Thailand, I was in Bangkok and looking for my hotel. I asked a very nice Thai man if he knew where my hotel was. He gave me  a complicated set of instructions, "Turn left here, turn right there, etc." . After wandering around Bangkok for another hour, I eventually found my hotel, on the opposite side of the road from where the man had given me instructions, you could see it from where we were stood.

 

Why did he lie? He didn't know where my hotel was but thought that I would be happier to receive some directions, even though they were wrong, than for him to tell me that he didn't know where my hotel was. Very Thai!

 

I had a receding hairline. On my first visit to Thailand, a Thai lady said to me, "Your hair go on holiday, not worry it come back soon". On this occasion she was telling the truth. After several years living in Thailand my hair grew back! There is a lot of magic in Thailand.

[geoffbezoz]

2 minutes ago, Yinn said:

Not excuse. Write it thai for me and I will answer.

 

No time for your criticism, ridicule, complaining and mock. Now, this thred about thai culture.

Unless it is posted in the Thai forum the language is to be English, it is a forum rule. But of course being Thai, or claiming you are anyway, it would mean rules are meaningless to you and you entice others to break them, another well known attribute of Thai culture.

[Lenny Jones]

7 minutes ago, petemoss said:

True. The first time I came to Thailand, I was in Bangkok and looking for my hotel. I asked a very nice Thai man if he knew where my hotel was. He gave me  a complicated set of instructions, "Turn left here, turn right there, etc." . After wandering around Bangkok for another hour, I eventually found my hotel, on the opposite side of the road from where the man had given me instructions, you could see it from where we were stood.

 

Why did he lie? He didn't know where my hotel was but thought that I would be happier to receive some directions, even though they were wrong, than for him to tell me that he didn't know where my hotel was. Very Thai!

555 ! - He gave you the answer he thought you wanted because he didn't understand you!  It also contained a "screen" because he did not want you to know that!.

 

[MartinL]

16 minutes ago, Yinn said:

... Now, this thred about thai culture.

One particular dictionary definition of 'culture' is not just music, dancing, food etc., it includes peoples' behaviour and habits so those are legitimate topics for discussion according to the title of this thread. Culture - Thai or otherwise - isn't just what you want it to be. It can include things you'd prefer not to discuss, too.

 

Having said that, it's a pity the thread's moved away from the contents of the original post from snoop1130. I'm not a great fan of music and even less of a fan of dancing - nature and engineering/architectural heritage are more my cup of tea - but this thread has given me a few pointers on what others think are 'good' aspects of Thai musical life that might be worth a look.

 

 

[Lenny Jones]

24 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

But the Soloman Islanders play rugby which suggest they play as a team, unlike Thais where it is self self self, just look at the way they plat any team sport, other that is then Ladies Volley ball.

By the way is it me, but I to have been fortunate enough to holiday in the Soloman Islands and also Fiji, and I noticed nearly all the women seemed to have very large feet.  Just me or did you notice that too ?

Sorry Geoff.  You're getting your islands mixed up.  Solomon Islanders like soccer. wife-beating and hacking each other up with bush knives.  They recently gave up head-hunting and cannibalism (Yes - I met a few old men who had eaten "long pig").  Their nation imploded early 2000 and I spent a year there in a peace-keeping force.

 

Fijians and Tongans are your rugby island players - ANNND damn good at it!

[petemoss]

7 minutes ago, Lenny Jones said:

555 ! - He gave you the answer he thought you wanted because he didn't understand you!  It also contained a "screen" because he did not want you to know that!.

 

No mate, you weren't there. He spoke good English. I've had many similar experiences since living in Thailand. If a Thai doesn't know the answer to your question, they will tell you some rubbish just to please you.

[geoffbezoz]

2 minutes ago, Lenny Jones said:

Sorry Geoff.  You're getting your islands mixed up.  Solomon Islanders like soccer. wife-beating and hacking each other up with bush knives.  They recently gave up head-hunting and cannibalism (Yes - I met a few old men who had eaten "long pig").  Their nation imploded early 2000 and I spent a year there in a peace-keeping force.

 

Fijians and Tongans are your rugby island players - ANNND damn good at it!

You sure ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Islands_national_rugby_union_team

Anyway makes no odds, as you have established they do indeed have something in common with Thais wife beating a common male trait and attacking each other with knives.  But what about the ladies with big feet question ?