cleopatra2 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, izod10 said: Disqualifying benefits Only sanctionable benefits can be reduced or stopped. Some benefits are not sanctioned but instead called disqualifying benefits. These include but are not limited to: Retirement Pension Disability Living Allowance Attendance Allowance Personal Independence payment If fraud is committed against one of these benefits it may lead to a penalty against a benefit which can be sanctioned. ....and so is the later version stated,no reduction of state pension The State Pension is not being subjected to a benefit sanction. The Pension benefit is restored to its correct entitlement and then deductions made from untill overpayment and or fines have been paid. A benefit sanction is a reduction or loss of the entitlement for a fixed period of time. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 8 hours ago, Tanoshi said: A close personal friend of mine retired to Thailand before reaching state pension age, but at 65 received his state pension + AVC's and annual increases as he used a UK relatives address. He confided in the wrong person, whom he later had a disagreement with and they snitched on him to the DWP. As a result he had to return to the UK for a Court hearing. His Pension was frozen at the 2012-13 rate and he was ordered to repay the overpayments. (He's 74 now). They were deducting £20 every 4 weeks from his Pension, but due to his increasing age, last year they announced they were raising the deduction to £50 every 4 weeks. He appealed stating that amount seriously affected his quality of life. He never received a reply, but from April 2020 he has been receiving the full state pension at it's current rate without any deductions and has been informed of an increase for 2021. We think the DWP have dropped a 'blooper', but it's their error and he's not informing them. ???? I understand all repayments have been suspended due to Covid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izod10 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 42 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said: The State Pension is not being subjected to a benefit sanction. The Pension benefit is restored to its correct entitlement and then deductions made from untill overpayment and or fines have been paid. A benefit sanction is a reduction or loss of the entitlement for a fixed period of time. The state pension is not being adjusted,any other benefits attached to the same recipient will be adjusted for a fixed period of up to 6 years 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 minute ago, izod10 said: The state pension is not being adjusted,any other benefits attached to the same recipient will be adjusted for a fixed period of up to 6 years The State Pension will revert to the correct amount . Any fines or overpayments can be recovered from the state pension. See the payment and overpayments legislation section 15. The Pension benefit will not be subject to a benefit sanction . The legislation dealing with the reducing or stopping of benefits does not apply to the State Pension. The legislation dealing with benefit sanction only pertain to the actual benefit entitlement. Thus if person A in receipt of a benefit of £50 and incurs a benefit sanction of 50% then the new entitlement will be £25. The benefit sanction is a form of penalty and not a method of recovery. Thus since the State Pension entitlement is not stopped or reduced it has not been subjected to a benefit sanction. The deductions of overpayments against the State Pension is specifically permitted in the legislation quoted earlier in this post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izod10 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, topt said: Why don't you post the link that is taken from so others can see for themselves - presuming it is not in the link I posted? Similar statements here - https://www.gov.uk/benefit-fraud Which agrees with what you wrote. Based on my earlier link it suggests though that they could take you to court if they really wanted to but in most cases probably would not bother. I lifted the passage from a page that is endless,there are other bits but I'm not bothering,basically they (DWP) will do nothing regarding state pension,personally I do not believe they will do anything regardless. attempted to pin a frozen pension on 2 individuals years ago,..failed 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izod10 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 2 hours ago, cleopatra2 said: The State Pension will revert to the correct amount . Any fines or overpayments can be recovered from the state pension. See the payment and overpayments legislation section 15. The Pension benefit will not be subject to a benefit sanction . The legislation dealing with the reducing or stopping of benefits does not apply to the State Pension. The legislation dealing with benefit sanction only pertain to the actual benefit entitlement. Thus if person A in receipt of a benefit of £50 and incurs a benefit sanction of 50% then the new entitlement will be £25. The benefit sanction is a form of penalty and not a method of recovery. Thus since the State Pension entitlement is not stopped or reduced it has not been subjected to a benefit sanction. The deductions of overpayments against the State Pension is specifically permitted in the legislation quoted earlier in this post. depending on which part you of DWP legislation is applied,two in particular yours versus disqualified,and Id go for disqualified as its the latest publication,and in particular I'm not really bothered,The chances of getting pulled are remote in the extreme and as the other poster stated not worth the effort,there. I'm not going frozen,II suppose you are..tough 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izod10 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 16 hours ago, Tanoshi said: A close personal friend of mine retired to Thailand before reaching state pension age, but at 65 received his state pension + AVC's and annual increases as he used a UK relatives address. He confided in the wrong person, whom he later had a disagreement with and they snitched on him to the DWP. As a result he had to return to the UK for a Court hearing. His Pension was frozen at the 2012-13 rate and he was ordered to repay the overpayments. (He's 74 now). They were deducting £20 every 4 weeks from his Pension, but due to his increasing age, last year they announced they were raising the deduction to £50 every 4 weeks. He appealed stating that amount seriously affected his quality of life. He never received a reply, but from April 2020 he has been receiving the full state pension at it's current rate without any deductions and has been informed of an increase for 2021. We think the DWP have dropped a 'blooper', but it's their error and he's not informing them. ???? Gave this post a quick once over without grasping its content earlier An up to date item answering the question of state pension. The guy in question sure did some serious stuff to get landed with that amount,however the last paragraph dropping a "blooper" is informative state pension unaffected,it was no"blooper" will not touch State Pension. There is other published item to further it ,if I can find it 2.9% increase last few years to pension, about 1.9% after it enters the wallet,seen ranges of 3 4 5 years backpay needed if collar felt ,whatever the amount hardly likely to effect ..I'm staying unfrozen Thank You Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritManToo Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 20 hours ago, Tanoshi said: As a result he had to return to the UK for a Court hearing. His Pension was frozen at the 2012-13 rate and he was ordered to repay the overpayments. (He's 74 now). Link to reporting of court hearing please. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izod10 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 17 minutes ago, BritManToo said: Link to reporting of court hearing please. He may well have done,the full story not there. more than probably housing benefit/job seekers/any one of a multitude that was ongoing for quite a few years,even PC There has been FoI for information on this subject...nothing.Personally its old hat,same same long stories to tell that go nowhere,again not bothered, The one thing that would bother me is having a house to get shut of here,impossible stuck here for life,now I'm knocking on time for a return,Spain was more than likely,need 2000 quid a month coming in for long time visa,probably in the vicinity,but the couple of mutts I have is the problem,no way do I want to leave them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanoshi Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 47 minutes ago, BritManToo said: Link to reporting of court hearing please. Don't be ridiculous. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanoshi Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 20 minutes ago, izod10 said: He may well have done,the full story not there. more than probably housing benefit/job seekers/any one of a multitude that was ongoing for quite a few years,even PC Exactly which benefits I don't know, but yes he received benefits whilst living in Thailand before retirement age, but it wasn't discovered until later by which time he was receiving his State pension. The 'overpayments' were being deducted from his State pension payments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Pumpuynarak Posted March 29, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 29, 2021 9 minutes ago, Tanoshi said: Don't be ridiculous. He's an expert at it ???? 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izod10 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 9 minutes ago, Pumpuynarak said: He's an expert at it ???? For someone who spent 250 quid on a hoax letter from the DWP,and hoisted it on here,and came on bragging that the state pension was only 20% of his total pension pot,only to be told it was other state benefits he was babbling on about,yes you are the expert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 9 hours ago, izod10 said: depending on which part you of DWP legislation is applied,two in particular yours versus disqualified,and Id go for disqualified as its the latest publication,and in particular I'm not really bothered,The chances of getting pulled are remote in the extreme and as the other poster stated not worth the effort,there. I'm not going frozen,II suppose you are..tough The pieces of legislation are not in conflict and both are up to date. You are misconstrue the law. A benefit sanction is a penalty with its terms specified in legislation. A deduction is a method of recovery and repayment and not a penalty. A deduction from the state pension cannot be regarded as a benefit sanction because no such penalty as been imposed. The recipient entitlement remains unchanged but receives a lower amount due to the recovery process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izod10 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 19 minutes ago, Tanoshi said: Exactly which benefits I don't know, but yes he received benefits whilst living in Thailand before retirement age, but it wasn't discovered until later by which time he was receiving his State pension. The 'overpayments' were being deducted from his State pension payments. you stated earlier his state pension was untouched Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izod10 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 3 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said: The pieces of legislation are not in conflict and both are up to date. You are misconstrue the law. A benefit sanction is a penalty with its terms specified in legislation. A deduction is a method of recovery and repayment and not a penalty. A deduction from the state pension cannot be regarded as a benefit sanction because no such penalty as been imposed. The recipient entitlement remains unchanged but receives a lower amount due to the recovery process. Benefits that cannot be reduced or stopped The following benefits cannot be reduced or stopped if you commit benefit fraud: Attendance Allowance Bereavement Support Payment Child Benefit Child Tax Credit Christmas Bonus Disability Living Allowance Graduated Retirement Benefit Guardian’s Allowance Industrial Injuries Constant Attendance Allowance (where a Disablement Pension is payable) Industrial Injuries Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance (where a Disablement Pension is payable) Personal Independence Payment State Pension Social Fund Payments War Pension Constant Attendance Allowance War Pension Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance War Pension Mobility 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, izod10 said: you stated earlier his state pension was untouched I have provided the legislation which permits deductions from the State Pension.Can you supply the legislatio. Which prohibits deductions from State pension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izod10 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 Just now, cleopatra2 said: I have provided the legislation which permits deductions from the State Pension.Can you supply the legislatio. Which prohibits deductions from State pension. done it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 1 minute ago, izod10 said: Benefits that cannot be reduced or stopped The following benefits cannot be reduced or stopped if you commit benefit fraud: Attendance Allowance Bereavement Support Payment Child Benefit Child Tax Credit Christmas Bonus Disability Living Allowance Graduated Retirement Benefit Guardian’s Allowance Industrial Injuries Constant Attendance Allowance (where a Disablement Pension is payable) Industrial Injuries Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance (where a Disablement Pension is payable) Personal Independence Payment State Pension Social Fund Payments War Pension Constant Attendance Allowance War Pension Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance War Pension Mobility The state pension is not being stopped or reduced. A deduction is being made as a method of recovery. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izod10 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 Just now, cleopatra2 said: The state pension is not being stopped or reduced. A deduction is being made as a method of recovery. Read it " cannot be reduced or stopped" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanoshi Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 22 hours ago, Tanoshi said: As a result he had to return to the UK for a Court hearing. His Pension was frozen at the 2012-13 rate and he was ordered to repay the overpayments. (He's 74 now). They were deducting £20 every 4 weeks from his Pension, but due to his increasing age, last year they announced they were raising the deduction to £50 every 4 weeks. He appealed stating that amount seriously affected his quality of life. This is what I previously stated. Quite clear deductions were being taken from his state pension. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 Just now, izod10 said: done it You have not provided legislation . Just some wording on guidance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 Just now, izod10 said: Read it " cannot be reduced or stopped" In what way is the state pension entitlement being reduced or stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izod10 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said: This is what I previously stated. Quite clear deductions were being taken from his state pension. He never received a reply, but from April 2020 he has been receiving the full state pension at it's current rate without any deductions and has been informed of an increase for 2021. We think the DWP have dropped a 'blooper', but it's their error and he's not informing them. No blooper,no stoppage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izod10 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said: The state pension is not being stopped or reduced. A deduction is being made as a method of recovery. Benefits that cannot be reduced or stopped it say there Again....No recovery 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 6 minutes ago, izod10 said: Benefits that cannot be reduced or stopped it say there Again....No recovery This refers to benefit entitlement. It does not state deductions cannot be made from that entitlement. If a recipient is entitled to X amount , this amount cannot be reduced to Y. However it does not state that deductions from amount X cannot be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 12 minutes ago, izod10 said: He never received a reply, but from April 2020 he has been receiving the full state pension at it's current rate without any deductions and has been informed of an increase for 2021. We think the DWP have dropped a 'blooper', but it's their error and he's not informing them. No blooper,no stoppage Repayments have been suspended due to Covid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izod10 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 1 hour ago, cleopatra2 said: This refers to benefit entitlement. It does not state deductions cannot be made from that entitlement. If a recipient is entitled to X amount , this amount cannot be reduced to Y. However it does not state that deductions from amount X cannot be made. Nor does it state they can be made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 9 minutes ago, izod10 said: Nor does it state they can be made Section 15 of the overpayment regulations do state such deductions can be made 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izod10 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said: Section 15 of the overpayment regulations do state such deductions can be made 2 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said: Section 15 of the overpayment regulations do state such deductions can be made This tells me they cannot be made Benefits that cannot be reduced or stopped The following benefits cannot be reduced or stopped if you commit benefit fraud: Attendance Allowance Bereavement Support Payment Child Benefit Child Tax Credit Christmas Bonus Disability Living Allowance Graduated Retirement Benefit Guardian’s Allowance Industrial Injuries Constant Attendance Allowance (where a Disablement Pension is payable) Industrial Injuries Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance (where a Disablement Pension is payable) Personal Independence Payment State Pension Social Fund Payments War Pension Constant Attendance Allowance War Pension Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance War Pension Mobility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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