Bribery

[Ryan]

Paying bribes to the police, its a general way of life in Thailand. Its usually a pain in the arse for the Motorist where in some cases is not obeying the rules of the road and in other cases just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It’s also a shame that Farangs usually get ripped off for the apparent fines.

At the end of the Day the general traffic cop gets probably much less than a maid here.

Traffic cops need to feed their families too, so is it rite or wrong to pay your bribe and save the hassle at the police station?

What do u think about Bribery?

[chonabot]

Traffic cops need to feed their families too

That's what their wages are for.....

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Traffic cops need to feed their families too

That's what their wages are for.....

The lowly constables get next to nuffin' Chon. If corruption is to be weeded out, they need to pay livable wages to the minions.

[ajahnlau]

If you've actually broken a law then why not just pay a reduced fine on the spot. Beats going to station and paying larger one and no marks on your license. To stamp out all gov't "tea money" wages would have to rise and of course so would taxes. The poor can't afford more taxes so let the people who can pay. A poor farmer upcountry with no helmet might pay 50 bht. Middle class 200. Farang 400. All relative.

[Dutchy]

The lowly constables get next to nuffin' Chon. If corruption is to be weeded out, they need to pay livable wages to the minions.

I see that many people underestimate the police here, I know several highway police men who own privately Honda Goldwings, I know one policemen who owns a Harley Davidson.

We could all follow these examples, these poor people earn next to nothing but have an amazing ability to save money. If we farang could do the same then we wouldn't have to worry about having enough on the bank.

The poor police need livable wages, how on earth could they ever buy a mercedes from what they earn now...

[Axel]

By yourself you know if you are wrong or not. If wrong, you know the average fine for an offence. Usually, illegal u-turn, illegal parking etc. Baht 400. Get a ticket, surrender your licence, go to the police station adds up. So instead of this pay Baht 200 cash. Make sure, you have not much more in the wallet you show.

If you feel, you have nothing done wrong, sit it out, don't show your driving licence immediatedly, argue in English (not in Thai), block the traffic in rush-hour. You might be lucky and off the hook. But than, how do you know everything is fine?

After you paid, enjoy the occassional news, that police station so or so baught a new comuter, all paid from private money-contributions of their officers. You know, it was yours

[Ryan]

Has anyone ever had a rude or disrespectful traffic cop stop them?

Every time I had been stopped they were kind and tried to communicate if they could not.....never a problem really.

always understood "Har loi Baht"

[maerim]

I understand the checkout girls in the big supermarkets who are always polite and helpful are not on a kings ransom every month so should we start bribing them as well?

As to the police being underpaid, I can't really see how thats my fault there are no bars on the police station gates, if they don't like it get a job at the supermarket.

[PvtDick]

Anyone who bribes a cop is not only breaking the law, but also contributing to the huge problem of corruption in Thailand. Anyone who complains about corruption, then contributes to the system, is the worst type of hypocrite.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The lowly constables get next to nuffin' Chon. If corruption is to be weeded out, they need to pay livable wages to the minions.

I see that many people underestimate the police here, I know several highway police men who own privately Honda Goldwings, I know one policemen who owns a Harley Davidson.

We could all follow these examples, these poor people earn next to nothing but have an amazing ability to save money. If we farang could do the same then we wouldn't have to worry about having enough on the bank.

The poor police need livable wages, how on earth could they ever buy a mercedes from what they earn now...

They take a cut lunch to work and bank the savings made by such frugality then tere's adequate on hand to by a Merc or Beemer.

[stroll]

Has anyone ever had a rude or disrespectful traffic cop stop them?

Every time I had been stopped they were kind and tried to communicate if they could not.....never a problem really.

always understood "Har loi Baht"

Yes, I was stopped by one in a rotten mood, refused to explain what I did wrong, just handed me the ticket and took my int. driving permit, all he was saying was 'must pay at policestation only', Iwasn't even trying to bribe him.

I found out that the writing on the ticket said I drove through a red traffic light. Odd, I don't remember being anywhere near a traffic light. Anyway, my license is still at the policestation, it was expired the next month.

I don't mind paying 'bribes' for traffic violations, saves everybody a lot of hassle, and you'd end up paying a fine either way. It isn't right, though, I am not disputing that.

The problem is, they operate a similar system for much more serious crimes!!!

[Ryan]

I understand the checkout girls in the big supermarkets who are always polite and helpful are not on a kings ransom every month so should we start bribing them as well?

No we can leave those lovley Girls alone because their Husbands are probably traffic cops anyways.

[NedKelly]

Some coppers also extract a fee from all the food vendors who set up on footpaths etc or in other places they shouldnot really be. This could be great business in some locations where there are loads of stalls.......I have heard figures like 1,500 baht a month ........dunno how true it is though !!??

[Emuu]

My Lady's father pays a fortune to the local police to be able to illegally cut down protected trees on the road side and in state forests. He complains that it is barely worth doing the work! One can only hope that police bribes in those matters may put an end to the practice.

[chanchao]

Something constructive:

In Bangkok the 'punishment' of having to make your way all the way to the police station far exceeds the punishment of having to pay x00 baht. If there was a convenient way to pay traffic fines then I would choose this more often over just handing over a red note. If there was a more convenient way of paying your fines then I think more people would stop contributing to bribery/corruption.

* For me I've never paid any fine/bribe when I was not at fault.

* In many cases I've also not paid when I actually was at fault. (Just

speaking Thai with the officer and stating my case).

* Mostly in Bangkok there were a few cases where I actually was at fault and have paid an on the spot fine (=bribe). I started out with 200 baht, but the next time I got caught on something I went down to 100 baht. Especially for silly offenses like entering the correct lane to late I think 100 baht is plenty. You need good communication to negotiate this of course. If you don't speak Thai then the police officer will assume you're a newbie tourist or worse, a clueless expat getting too much money from some multinational company.. Speak Thai however and you have a fighting chance of stating your case and whining/charming/yelling your way out of it. (Or at least reducing the fine)

Cheers,

Chanchao

Edited June 10, 2004 by chanchao

[Yohan]

Paying bribes to the police, its a general way of life in Thailand.

......

It’s also a shame that Farangs usually get ripped off for the apparent fines.

......

Traffic cops need to feed their families too, so is it rite or wrong to pay your bribe and save the hassle at the police station?

Police is like that and not only in Thailand.

But Thailand is no exception....

Same in Malaysia or Philippines for example....

If the fine is Baht 500,- then I offer Baht 200,-, I say friendly bye-bye, and continue ....they were all smiling and even stopped the traffic behind me to help me to drive on.

However I was never stopped without making a clear traffic violation. It was always my fault....illegal U-turns, illegal parking....It is not always so easy for the policeman to see if there is a foreigner sitting in the car...or with a helmet on the motor-cycle....

I do not think, the fine is only, because I am a foreigner...

Bribery? - I am doing what most Thais are also doing....and most Malays, and most Filipinos...... I do not know, if anybody pays a fine at a police station....

Johann

[Ryan]

I do not think, the fine is only, because I am a foreigner...

Your rite, everyone pays fines/bribes on the spot regardless if they are a forigner or not.

That's why i said it is a part of life here meaning everybody. even the underage drivers with out licences pay too.

I heard Indonesia is even worse in some cases....not shure..... but i have yet to experience it.

I think at the end of the day Bribery for traffic violations is fine but when we start bribing our way through criminal offences, that is what is ecentially wrong with bribary and corruption.

[PvtDick]

I never pay the fines on the spot. Always at the police station. Because I abhor corruption and will not contribute to it becoming any more ingrained in society than it already is. It is not such a big deal to pay at the police station. Besides, whoever said paying one's debt to society for committing an illegal act was supposed to be convenient.

[Axel]

Well, bribe, corruption... who am I to fight?

Not long ago we had a big thread on 'fighting for our rights'. I do not fight for this, neither have I the power to fight against any established system.

In Rome, do as the Romans do.

And btw, I am very obedient, if a police officer tells me, 'you can give me the money and I pay for you' I belive him, he is the authority.

[PvtDick]

In Rome, do as the Romans do.

Nowhere near all Thais pay bribes. Every time I've paid a ticket, I've noticed hundreds of other driver's licenses there in the box waiting to be picked up. It is your choice whether to propagate the system or not.

[john b good]

Paying bribes to the police, its a general way of life in Thailand.

......

It’s also a shame that Farangs usually get ripped off for the apparent fines.

......

Traffic cops need to feed their families too, so is it rite or wrong to pay your bribe and save the hassle at the police station?

Police is like that and not only in Thailand.

But Thailand is no exception....

Same in Malaysia or Philippines for example....

If the fine is Baht 500,- then I offer Baht 200,-, I say friendly bye-bye, and continue ....they were all smiling and even stopped the traffic behind me to help me to drive on.

However I was never stopped without making a clear traffic violation. It was always my fault....illegal U-turns, illegal parking....It is not always so easy for the policeman to see if there is a foreigner sitting in the car...or with a helmet on the motor-cycle....

I do not think, the fine is only, because I am a foreigner...

Bribery? - I am doing what most Thais are also doing....and most Malays, and most Filipinos...... I do not know, if anybody pays a fine at a police station....

Johann

Well just try it (to bribe a cop) in Singapore!!

One case I know of the driver when stopped said to the cop, will $20 cover it and the cop refused. Undeterred the driver tried to slip $50 into the cop's pocket.

It went to court and the driver was fined $20,000.00 for attempting to bribe a police officer.

Thailand will never get out of the corruption cycle because it is endemic from top to bottom.

Why do you think that most reasonably senior police or army wallahs can (and do) have at least one mia noi. And the mia nois are all driving pretty flash cars as well.

The mia nois don't give a toss where the money comes from including drug money, casinos, prostitution etc.

I am not saying it is not convenient (to pay on the spot) but it is still wrong and and is a large part of the problem in the realm.

So what if taxes rose a bit and everyone got a fair wage it would be reasonable to expect that the cycle could be terminated. But even with increased salaries it would still continue. It's ingrained in the people.

And remember the boy from Sankaemphang started his career in the police. Ask yourself how he got to be the richest man in Thailand.

[RamdomChances]

My wife and myself own a six wheel lorry, "up country", we usually carry fresh gress for sale in the local dairy farms and chicken food, It would be impossible to keep the lorry(truck) on the road if we did not pay fines. All the local police stations on our regular routes, get money every month, its only 30 bht a station, but when you add all the lorry's doing it its prob a tidy sum!!, also if you did'nt pay the fines you could never be compeitive, 90% of the lorry's in thailand run overloaded.

legal disclaimer, all the above is totaly false and I made it up for a good story, the police are wounderful and honest, and would never think of taking a bribe.

[medicinebox]

Nowhere near all Thais pay bribes. Every time I've paid a ticket, I've noticed hundreds of other driver's licenses there in the box waiting to be picked up. It is your choice whether to propagate the system or not.

On Pattaya Beach road, there is an officer stopping dozens of people every day, for no helmet. Absolutely Everyone he stops has to go to the station to pay. The reason being, he is stood right outside the police station all day. I bet his captain is looking out the window upstairs with a cup of coffee. He looks sick as <deleted>.....lol.

[Johpa]

If you feel, you have nothing done wrong, sit it out, don't show your driving licence immediatedly, argue in English (not in Thai), block the traffic in rush-hour. You might be lucky and off the hook. But than, how do you know everything is fine?

Well the really tough first decision when faced with a sudden interaction with Police or similar government employee is deciding whether to speak Thai or not. Some times I decide to speak Thai while other times I only speak English. If it is just some young traffic cop they usually just let me go if I am speaking only English as it is not worth their time. But if they actually caught me for a valid infraction of the traffic laws I will speak Thai, admit my guilt and pay the requisite amount to keep them happy just as my Thai peers would do.

If it is some situation where I am being shook down by a higher ranking bureaucrat for no good reason then I will speak my best Thai and complain loudly because, gee, Farang mai theuu" and they are usually losing face. One time I was drinking with some Thai pals and some Burmese businesswomen at the old Hennesy Night club in Chiang Mai. There was an undercover cop working the nightclub and the moment we stepped outside the cops were there asking for everyone's ID. Like most Burmese supplying goods to the tourist market in Chiang Mai back then they were a bit illegal in the country. So we all ended up at the local Police Station, a drunk farang, a local businessman, a local teacher who happens to have been Lahu and with no fear of Thai police, and the three ladies. And the local Police Captain is trying to shake down the ladies for some money but he doesn't know how to do it in front of a Thai speaking Farang who also happens to be an “achaan” at a local college. In the end he lets everyone go on the promise they will return the next day to straighten things out. My presence, even though a bit inebriated, saved those women several thousand baat.

Things have changed now as a Farang who speaks Thai is no longer a rarity and curiosity. There use to be a "road tax" collection booth on the highway south of Chiang Rai at the border with Chiang Mai province. The police stopped me once, probably more out of curiosity then for collecting a road tax, and for some reason I decided to speak Thai. Next thing you know I am drinking Mae Khong with the cops out back behind the "tuu tamruat."

But I try to resist outright corruption whenver possible. In the immortal words (paraphrased) of the great American prophet Lenny Bruce: "There is some doggy doo doo I will not eat."

[snowleopard]

Traffic cops need to feed their families too

That's what their wages are for.....

The lowly constables get next to nuffin' Chon. If corruption is to be weeded out, they need to pay livable wages to the minions.

Greed cannot be cured with higher wages because it's a vice and part of human nature (manure)!

The whole system here has become so indelibly ingrained in corruption that it will probably have to be allowed to continue with impunity,both unabatedly and unabashedly,or else the societal structure collapses.

The smaller cops must groom their superiors at the station with cash they've plucked from folks around the precinct;because,those superiors need to recover the investment they made by bribing higher-ups when they bought their positions!

Investment recovered,then they must begin saving up for a big bribe to be ready just in time for their next promotion!

Promotion secured,the "look-nongs" who have been instrumental in their boss's career improvement can look forward to a brighter future themselves.

The patronage system is a strong-bonding one!

All the honest cops are thus weeded out of the systen sooner rather than later.

Some resign while others commit suicide or worse!

A big raise for cops would only spur inflation without effecting any change in the system.

Rather,the cost of living in the Realm would increase and that in turn could call for more bribes in order to make ends meet for the desperate bottom-feeders.

Many of the minions live hand to mouth or on advances from their next pay-cheque.

The fact of human greed being insatiable is evidently and aptly displayed on a daily basis here in LOS where everyone can observe it in the field by watching the feeding habits of the big sharks at the top of the food chain.

Being "Greed" itself incarnated and personified into human form at the pyramid's absolute summit,is,of course, the great greedy gulper Toxin himself!

Thais have long been bred corrupted!

Bred to a point where it has become an invaluably advantageous survival trait;and corruption is now an integral part of our lovely Thai culture!

The winners in this society are only the ones who know how to play the game well!

It's not what you know,but rather whom you know in society that counts and brings success!

When some anti-corruption advocates in LOS criticize corruption in their system,it's usually because they're jealous,bitter and resentful for having missed the band-wagon or gotten too small a share of the booty.

Once they manage to get onboard the "bribery gravy-train",they quickly calm down,shut up and play along!

Money talks ethics walks!

Corruption will never be eliminated from Thai life but instead it just gets adapted,reinvented,reborn and reincarnated into other shapes and new forms to suit the modern times better.

Good or bad,corruption is the way Thais use for interacting and communicating with one another in their rigid bureaucratic system which,by the way, they have themselves created with the purpose of corruption!

I,for one,personally prefer the polite and friendly small-scale corruption that was thriving like a cottage industry here during the last century,compared to the big scale state corruption of today's hypocritically anti-corruption-minded Thai Rak Thai Party!

Toxin and his nationalistic "love cult" have a vision of a corruption-free society in which they rule from top down in gestapo-like fashion in order to grab the lion's share of the sweet corruption-pie for themselves!

The bribery-fees for us,the patrons of the corruption establishment,are always higher when we must pay the greedy rate of the officially sanctioned corruption instead of the chicken-feed small scale "bribe-gratuity"!

In the West,state sanctioned corruption is called taxes!

Luckily,in the Occident a percentage of taxes do come back as service to the public.

The truth of tax payments being converted to public services is,of course, predicated on having a working system in place with transparency,checks and balances.

Otherwise,the public assets will soon be transmuted into personal assets and shipped to tax havens such as Turks and Caicos Islands,Bahamas and Cayman Islands.

Unfortunately,tax payers have no power in Thailand because there's zero transparency and "nada" accountability!

I remember reading some years ago in the Thai media that Toxin,his maid and his private chauffeur had interests and company holdings registered in the Cayman Islands.

"Smearless" leader climed in the papers that it was common practice for an international businessman of his stature to make big deals in banking havens like that.

These were the days before money laundering laws existed in the Realm's statute books.

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

[penzman]

I got pulled over last year for riding without a helmet, my fault, intentional. When asked for a driver's licence, ooops, I just pretended I had misplaced it (bribe time consumption) in my wallet or passport. Mr MiB was in a hurry I guess and told me to forget about the licence and pay the 200 baht fine at the booth. Fine, walked over to the booth and was handed a ticket previously used for another falang, MiB scratched out the signature and asked me to sign below. I the handed over a 500 baht bill, he did pull pleeeenty of change out of his pocket. They pointed towards BigC for the helmet, I pointed to the food shop across the street and said "Have a good lunch"!

And they collected bribes happily ever after.

Fin

[ProThaiExpat]

For those who have posted in this tread that paying a bribe is against their principles and through their individual actions they will help in erradicating corruption, I have the following story that was in the press a year or so ago.

There was a farang in the south who hit a Thai girl with his vehicle and I think broke a leg. He payed for the hospital and doctor bills.

The police told him that the accident was his fault and he had to pay them 60K baht for his negligence. The farang, in his newspaper interview, said he was adamant in not paying this "bribe", as he had lived in Thailand for a long time and had never payed a bribe.

He was put in jail, not to be released until he payed. He didn't.

After a year of incarceration, he was tried in court, found to be at fault and fined 60k Baht. When he finally payed the fine, he was then deported. The newspaper article recounting the events was basically a complaint by the farang about how unfairly he was treated in Thailand.

No one wonders why rocks found in streams are always round or why bamboo bend in the wind. Need I say more?

[Bluecat]

Paying bribes to the police, its a general way of life in Thailand.

I never ever paid any bribe to the traffic police.

I'm a very, very patient guy.

And they always give up before me,...

[Dutchy]

Paying bribes to the police, its a general way of life in Thailand.

I never ever paid any bride to the traffic police.

I'm a very, very patient guy.

And they always give up before me,...

he he, I never paid anything neither but had severe difficulties. They confiscated my driver's license once but I managed to get it back without paying.

I always carry a photocopy with me now, they will not accept it but what can they do? If they want me to go to the station, that's fine... but they won't... too much work for one farang...

[Axel]

I never ever paid any bride to the traffic police.

bride Bluecat? No offense but seems your mind is still in the BG-thread