U.S. executes only Native American on federal death row

[Pattaya Spotter]

1 hour ago, polpott said:

If the death penalty is carried out, the decision can't be reversed. Or is that too abstract a concept for you?

 

 

I think you are confused as to the purpose of, at least the British and American, criminal justice systems. It's to determine if the accused is legally guilty of the crime(s) for which they are charged...it is not to find out if they actually committed the crime in question. Once you understand this, you're one your way to understanding the basis of common law legal systems.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Pattaya Spotter
grammar

[Pattaya Spotter]

1 hour ago, polpott said:

If the death penalty is carried out, the decision can't be reversed. Or is that too abstract a concept for you?

 

 

And the relevance is what...the accused was found legally guilty (after a full and fair trial) and the penalty prescribed by law was carried out. Any complex system, including legal ones administered by fallible humans, is going come to "incorrect" conclusions on occasion. Is that a reason to do away with the whole enterprise?

[polpott]

1 minute ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

And the relevance is what...the accused was found legally guilty (after a full and fair trial) and the penalty prescribed by law was carried out. Any complex system, including legal ones administered by fallible humans, is going come to "incorrect" conclusions on occasion. Is that a reason to do away with the whole enterprise?

its a compelling reason to abolish the death penalty.

[riclag]

11 hours ago, webfact said:

According to prosecutors, the men had been hitchhiking before they stabbed Slim more than 30 times after she gave them a ride. They put the body in the back seat of her truck alongside the granddaughter as they drove elsewhere before slitting the girl's throat and decapitating both bodies.

He's was fortunate he got to live as long as he did after those hideous acts!

 I hope  his victim didn't cry out for their mommy as her body  was being sadistically ravaged ! 

Edited August 27, 2020 by riclag

[twocatsmac]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

In the US it has been proven it costs more to execute rather than life sentence - legal costs etc

 

but it’s nice to see the baddies die.

Costs don’t come into the equation of true justice especially for scumbags slitting children’s throats. 

[riclag]

10 hours ago, pegman said:

Generally Trump supporters aren't big on context. It's pretty much all black and white and Old Testament to them.

Here we go tying   skin color and the Trump supporters! Since your obviously trying to spark a argument,sad!

There is a long history of capital punishment in my country  ,dating back  decades and decades! 

Edited August 27, 2020 by riclag

[Pattaya Spotter]

33 minutes ago, polpott said:

its a compelling reason to abolish the death penalty.

Why is that?

[Pattaya Spotter]

12 minutes ago, riclag said:

Here we go tying   skin color and the Trump supporters! Since your obviously trying to spark a argument,sad!

There is a long history of capital punishment in my country  ,dating back  decades and decades! 

People can agree or disagree on the morality and efficacy of the death penalty, however, in jurisdictions where it is in effect, it is an appropriate sentence for the crimes for which it is proscribed. If people are against it, they can mobilize politically and advocate for its repeal.

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

My last purchase of 4" Sisal from EBay cost 16 quid inc delivery.

 

Who did you hang with it?

 

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

All of which preceded DNA, Pace & similar safeguards which would significantly reduce such errors.

I'm not sure that would be the case in the USA!

As someone said earlier, it's a bit black and white and Old Testament over there.

Black and white being the operative phrase!

[danmarnj]

I wonder what if some of the opinions on this thread would have changed if their daughter and grandmother had been killed and throat slit

[rgraham]

And on a happier note, the US has no Native Americans on death row!

[bodga]

12 hours ago, webfact said:

According to prosecutors, the men had been hitchhiking before they stabbed Slim more than 30 times after she gave them a ride. They put the body in the back seat of her truck alongside the granddaughter as they drove elsewhere before slitting the girl's throat and decapitating both bodies.

Unfortunately they had a much easier ride out than their poor  victims.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, herfiehandbag said:

Who did you hang with it?

 

I'm not sure that would be the case in the USA!

As someone said earlier, it's a bit black and white and Old Testament over there.

Black and white being the operative phrase!

 

But not as black and white as the Chinese system. Execution carried out straight after the verdict. Family of executed prisoner billed for the bullet!

[LukKrueng]

13 hours ago, polpott said:

capital punishment is a crime in itself which is why most civilised nations have outlawed it.

I'm usually against capital punishment, but in this case I think he got what he deserved, and the 26 minutes it took until he died was too short compared to what his 2 victims had to suffer

[JeffersLos]

14 hours ago, evadgib said:

I'm pro death penalty but 26 mins is a long time.

Yeah, it can't be that hard to kill someone.

 

Combine US and Russian methods.

 

US knock-out drugs, then an upwards bullet behind the ear. 

[Scott]

Inflammatory post and reply removed. 

 

[Damrongsak]

Yeah, well that's the Navajo Nation and they do have spiritual beliefs concerning punishment and retribution.  As do other tribes in the area.  Though they seem more appropriate to older times where people weren't as mobile and the tribe could keep an eye out for further transgressions.

 

I've traveled there and once picked up an old lady "hitchhiker", though she wasn't flagging me down.  One does that in wide open desert spaces where there's nothing for miles and people can perish.  Seems like these guys took advantage of goodwill, trust and tribal morals.

 

As for the method of death, I can think of many different concoctions to send people to the spirit world painlessly, having been a minor student of recreational chemicals back around 1970.  And there's really good and cheap stuff now, like Fentanyl and its more potent analogs. 

 

[Credo]

Part of the issue is the agreements between the government and the tribes.   Tribes have the right to input on some legal issues that involve tribal members.   These include, but aren't limited to, matters of sentencing and child welfare issues.   With regard to child welfare, children who are members of a tribe have to be placed in foster homes with tribal members or receive the consent of the tribe for placement.   

 

With regard to sentencing, the tribe again is allowed input on the issue of the death sentence (as well as a few other issues).   The tribe objected and the government ignored it.   That doesn't sit well with the tribe.   

 

In traditional tribal settings, incidents like this would be extremely rare.  In spite of the size of some of the tribes, most of them lived in relatively small groups of families that might be a part of a clan.   The clans made up the overall tribe, but it was not common for them to be together as a large group.   

 

There isn't a lot of historical information on how situations like this are handled, but it is known that serious offenses sometimes saw someone expelled from the tribe/clan.   That would be similar to a death sentence since surviving completely on alone would be rather difficult for any period of time.   

 

[herfiehandbag]

6 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

I'm usually against capital punishment, but in this case I think he got what he deserved, and the 26 minutes it took until he died was too short compared to what his 2 victims had to suffer

What he did to the little girl and her grandmother was abhorrent. It literally brings tears to ones eyes.

 

But your comment raises the question, what is the purpose of the death penalty?

 

To punish: they don't value life, and seem to live on anyway incarcerated for many years.

 

To deter others: a glance at the list of those on death row would seem to suggest not.

 

For revenge: an understandable desire, but not one which should have any place in a judicial system.

[stouricks]

12 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

Beheading much the quickest.

Rock on Madame Guillotine! 

[digger70]

17 hours ago, simple1 said:

In the US it has been proven it costs more to execute rather than life sentence - legal costs etc

Why legal costs? The Trial has been done so it makes no difference in Legal costs Found Guilty Get the Chop ,Done.

[digger70]

17 hours ago, polpott said:

One of the reasons that it was banned in the UK was because too many people went to the gallows and were subsequently found completely innocent Timothy Evans was the most shocking case. Several cases since the abolition the same.

The "Birmingham 6" were a prime example. Six men fitted up and would certainly have hanged but years later had their convictions quashed.

There's Nothing Wrong with the Gallows.

It's the System that was lacking some proper Investigating and proper executing of the law.

[simple1]

14 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Why legal costs? The Trial has been done so it makes no difference in Legal costs Found Guilty Get the Chop ,Done.

 

Rule of Law - Appeals etc

Edited August 28, 2020 by simple1

[digger70]

17 hours ago, polpott said:

If the death penalty is carried out, the decision can't be reversed. Or is that too abstract a concept for you?

 

 

Why should it be reversed? If a Proper Trail has been done and All the Evidence ads up to 100% Guilty?

[digger70]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

Rule of Law - Appeals etc

Same as in a Life Sentence  . No Difference .No More no Less. 

As a matter of fact appeals go for Any sentence.

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Why should it be reversed? If a Proper Trail has been done and All the Evidence ads up to 100% Guilty?

Since 1973, 167 persons in the USA condemned to death, were exonerated - do you now finally understand why some people push back against the death sentence, aside from religious / political considerations?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exonerated_death_row_inmates

[polpott]

3 hours ago, digger70 said:

Why should it be reversed? If a Proper Trail has been done and All the Evidence ads up to 100% Guilty?

Not always, in the cases I quoted, 6 men would have hanged for a crime they did not commit. A young man was sent to the gallows for murdering his wife and baby, a crime that a mass murderer later confessed to. Put yourself in his shoes as he walked up the gallows steps.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by polpott

[polpott]

4 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Didn't you read what I posted?

 

 

No mate. never do. Its all just nonsense. 

 

Edit: Why rename your posts as mine? Are you embarrassed by them?

 

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by polpott

[polpott]

2 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Didn't you Read what I posted?  

 

Why should it be reversed? If a Proper Trail has been done and All the Evidence ads up to 100% Guilty?

it should be reversed (it was in both cases I quoted) because it was the wrong verdict. New evidence came to light much later.

[simple1]

57 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Didn't you read what I posted?

 

Why should it be reversed? If a Proper Trail has been done and All the Evidence ads up to 100% Guilty?

 

My error, I was using an argument against the death penalty in general. As has been pointed out in this topic there was an agreement between the tribe and US government that crimes on the tribe's territory would not be subject to the death penalty. Unfortunately, the US government has a long history of breaching agreements with indigenous tribes. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by simple1