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Today marks two months of Covid-19 restrictions in Pattaya with many business owners and residents getting frustrated


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maybe it's time to tell people a truth: it will not get better this year, stop dreaming...

Soothing words for the many tens of thousands of simple economically unsophisticated people who have watched their small businesses and livelihoods collapse because of arbitrary decisions taken by sal

Could go on for a few more months before gearing up for the awesome promising Pattaya sandbox in October. 

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1 hour ago, BestB said:

Covid is here and not much anyone can do to bring the tourists, not only from Thai side but also people having trouble leaving or returning to their home country.

 

Most other countries offered financial support to businesses and people, Thailand has done nothing.

 

Said it dozens of times, the soft loans which were suppose to be given to small businesses via SME bank never made it to any business.

 

Where did all the money go?

 

Businesses did not get any tax cuts or tax refunds, people paying taxes did not get any tax cuts or tax refunds.

 

City hall continues to demand sign tax and continues to apply late fees. I am sorry but if business has been ordered to shut down every 2 months for 2 months, how do you expect for business to pay full years sign tax when it was forced to close for 6 months?

 

Government did not even have to give out cash, but really provide low interest rate long term soft loans and Pattaya not only would not be a ghost town but most would have survived.

 

If businesses had access to cheap money, they would have kept some staff on, staff got paid and spend money on food, rents and everything else.

 

Instead businesses got ZERO help, forced to close down, staff unable to get a job , forced to return to the villages, end result, city is dying and falling apart.

 

They say they want to open to get tourists, but where tourists will stay? what they will eat and where they will have fun? Most budget places are gone, many restaurants are gone, many bars are gone.

 

With tourists coming, i doubt there are many people sitting around with cash in their bank accounts ready to open up.

 

If they had cash they would not have closed up and left.

 

Apology for the long rant, had to get it off my chest, much more poor countries did a better job to support businesses and people, while this lot only beating their chest how they are doing best where in fact doing NOTHING.

 

Good post.  Hardly a rant.  3rd World governance here.  

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9 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Of those who contract Covid 99.5% recover. 

Here it is again. Stop posting fake news and false numbers.....

Worldwide there have been 3.8 million deaths in 176 million cases....that is 2% who did not recover and never will.

USA numbers....615,034/34,314,628.....ie 1.7%

 

 

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7 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Here it is again. Stop posting fake news and false numbers.....

Worldwide there have been 3.8 million deaths in 176 million cases....that is 2% who did not recover and never will.

USA numbers....615,034/34,314,628.....ie 1.7%

 

 

To him it is real and easy to get there in his mind.  For example, infections are underreported ( which of without a doubt they are ) by 4x which is widely accepted ( in reality it is not, but that doesn't matter ).  This person obviously has a believe that he will confirm no matter what.  

 

Does it really matter if 99.9% don't die or 50% die?  In the end it is how many die.  In the USA 616K have bit the dust and they would still be dead regardless of death to infection ratios.

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21 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Does it really matter if 99.9% don't die or 50% die?

Yes of course it does!

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4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Here it is again. Stop posting fake news and false numbers.....

Worldwide there have been 3.8 million deaths in 176 million cases....that is 2% who did not recover and never will.

1,4491USA numbers....615,034/34,314,628.....ie 1.7%

The figures I posted were from Thailand.  Not the world  Perhaps you should have picked up on that when I said population of approximately 70 million or did that not strike you as a bit low for the world. 

Now here are the Thailand numbers.  

Now I don't know if you are a product of "new math"  I am not.  There are a total of 1,449 deaths "in Thailand"  There have been a total of 195,909 reported cases of Covid "in Thailand"  By my math, 1,449/195,909 comes out to a mortality rate of . 

00739629113

Now even that figure is "likely high"  Since we know pretty accurately how many deaths there are from Covid but the 195,909 cases are only those reported.  Many people with Covid don't get diagnosed.  They have such light symptoms they don't go to the hospital or clinic where they would be determined to have Covid.  Some with Covid are even asymptomatic. 

Also the "deaths" are skewed to the aged. My post stated that you are punishing the young healthy population when they have as shown a very small risk. 

Finally, the deaths are extremely skewed to those with other significant health problems.  Now when you factor in, that the younger a person  is the less likely they are to get Covid.  If they do get Covid they are less likely to require hospitalization, and without any other major health problem, these younger people face a very minimal amount of risk of death.  

Yet the government is shutting the working class people out of jobs, and businesses to shutter even though the people most likely to suffer the negative effects of Covid are not the ones going to work each day.  

Comorbidities the rule in New York's COVID-19 deaths | The Hospitalist

http://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/20860.jpeg

image.png.569d782cef856a1d34d3b38ab04b3567.png,

 

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3 hours ago, Thomas J said:

The figures I posted were from Thailand.  Not the world  Perhaps you should have picked up on that when I said population of approximately 70 million or did that not strike you as a bit low for the world. 

Could have been the UK....2% died.

Why not say so if you believe the Thailand figures represent the global problem... then everyone can pick up on it. I am afraid I was cynical of Thailand's early, very low, fatality numbers. 

 

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29 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Could have been the UK....2% died.

Why not say so if you believe the Thailand figures represent the global problem... then everyone can pick up on it. I am afraid I was cynical of Thailand's early, very low, fatality numbers. 

Did you read the original article?  It says It said  "Today marks two months of Covid-19 restrictions in Pattaya with many business owners and residents getting frustrated"

 

Why would someone quote the figures in Liverpool, Washington DC, or Berlin.  The draconian measures are here in Thailand and the businesses shuttered are in Thailand so the actual circumstance in Thailand is the only one that is pertinent. 

 

The fact is that in the USA Texas and Florida have no quarantines, no mask mandates and their rates of Covid infection are no different than New York or New Jersey.  I think that some people if told that wearing a necklace of garlic will protect them from Covid would believe it. There are zero statistics only guestimates that measures such as masks, quarantines, social distancing have any effectiveness at all. 

Even assuming they do.  As mentioned the obese 80 year old with emphysema and hypertension is the one at risk, but is not the one impacted by their business being bankrupted or their job eliminated.  The reality is that the young to middle aged working public and business owners have real pain and subfreezing.  If there should be restrictions it should be to those over age 60 with particular emphasis to those with significant health conditions.  "Protecting" the business owners and employees by shuttering their business is just protecting them from surviving and making a living.  They have a minimal risk of contracting Covid and are virtually assured of having minimal effects from it, if they do contract it. 

To demonstrate how ludicrous the existing rules are, massage parlors, bars, restaurants, gyms etc are to a greater or lesser degree shuttered but these activities are just fine.  The government is picking which businesses it will allow to survive and which one it is killing.  I guess you cant get Covid grocery shopping or at a mall coffee shop, only at a bar or a restaurant that serves alcohol. 

 

 





 

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21 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Yes it is only at the bars socializing that Covid can spread. 
Gov't Takes Full Control Over Distribution of Face Masks
Immigration official says visa amnesty extension "is unlikely" | Thaiger

 

No argument from me.  It's an epic failure. 

 

I posted an alternate solution on a thread, using Beach Road.  As for immigration, with hardly any flights coming in, and a big airport, there's no need for people to be queuing like that.  

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On 6/12/2021 at 8:44 PM, Leaver said:

It stops large numbers of people socialising and drinking, and that is the purpose of the lockdowns

Well then they should shut down the restaurants entirely since they are socializing and drinking water, soft drinks, coffee, and tea.  After all the purpose is to stop the socializing not banish alcohol.  Probably should consider closing down the temples since people congregate there socialize and exhale as they loudly pray.  While you are at it, why not shut down the land office, immigration, amphoe, and license bureau since that puts people together in confined areas.  Certainly we can not forget the trains in Bangkok.  Though I am sure the attached picture shows that people most certainly are not socializing and drinking alcohol therefore they can not get Covid. 

Bangkok, Thailand, March 2020, A crowd of unrecognizable business people  wearing surgical mask to prevent coronavirus outbreak 1103163 Stock Photo  at Vecteezy

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57 minutes ago, Thomas J said:


I don't know if you are from the USA and familiar with the Disney movie Dumbo.  Its the story of a baby elephant that has large ears and gets to believe he can fly when a mouse gives him what he says is a magic feather that will allow him to fly. 

That is what the government is giving people.  An amulet, silver cross, magic feather, to give people the belief that somehow the masks, social distancing, hand sanitizer, quarantines, and closings are really doing something.   

If they are accomplishing anything, it is minimal.  There is no way of establishing how many if any more covid cases there would be if none of it was implemented.  You have places like Texas and Florida with no mask mandates, no quarantines, and their rate of Covid infection is no different than New York and New Jersey that imposed severe Covid measures.  The closest you can come to is comparing Sweden which never had a mask mandate or closings to some of its neighbors.  Though higher than Denmark, Norway and Finland, the rate in Sweden is approximately the same as Lithuania and Estonia which are just as close to Sweden as Denmark, Norway, and Finland.  

If the covid measures were "dramatically" effective Sweden's rate should have been exponentially higher than the rest of Europe that did impose quarantines, masks etc.  Though higher, Swedens rate is only fractionally higher which leads me to believe at best the Covid measures only slightly moved the needle.  

One way or another the arbitrary and contradictory measures here in Thailand are a joke.  You can go to a government office and sit side by side with a room full of people, or stand in line shoulder to shoulder at the meat country at Makro but at one point could not have a meal for two in an open air restaurant.  You can sit at Swensen's at eat ice cream without a mask, but can't be at a restaurant and have a glass of wine, but a glass of water is ok.  

If measures should be taken to restrict people it should be the older population, and those with significant health problems.  They really are the only ones with a "significant" risk.  However the government policies are not really hurting them.  They are hurting the young, healthy working population and the business owners.  Those who catch covid will in all likelihood recover.  Those who lose their businesses, homes, cars, and jobs may recover but if they do it will take years.  

 You seem to see only things that confirm your beliefs and everything else you disregard as moronic.  Do you really think you are an expert on Pandemics and how they should be handled?  I see many examples of restrictions in Thailand everyday that help with mitigating the spread.  Occasionally I see things that don't make sense.  Both register in my average size noggin.  

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Thomas J said:

Well then they should shut down the restaurants entirely since they are socializing and drinking water, soft drinks, coffee, and tea. 

 

You jest, however, lockdowns have been proven to work, globally.

 

Last year's lockdown here put Thailand in a good position.  They need to get ahead of the curve.  

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14 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Why would someone quote the figures in Liverpool, Washington DC, or Berlin. 

Because the figures here are likely not to be trusted..... this wave is different, I do know people in Thailand this time with Covid.

Your statement that masks do no good whatsoever is ludicrous...... you are reading some USA nutter sites.

 

14 hours ago, Thomas J said:

The fact is that in the USA Texas and Florida have no quarantines, no mask mandates and their rates of Covid infection are no different than New York or New Jersey.

Their death rates and numbers are far higher than Thailand... go figure! And New York and New Jersey are far more densely populated.... but Texas and Florida both had more infection cases than both New York and New Jersey, so you talk rubbish!

 

 

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On 6/11/2021 at 9:20 AM, herfiehandbag said:

Soothing words for the many tens of thousands of simple economically unsophisticated people who have watched their small businesses and livelihoods collapse because of arbitrary decisions taken by salaried officials who will still receive their salary come what may.

 

Did you offer to assist these people by drawing maps of the best route back to their farms?

The core farming community remains largely unaffected. People still need to eat. My own business was devastated and I created a new one - for Thai's by Thai's, adding 30 plus people into new employment that would otherwise have lost their jobs. You should read Who Moved My Cheese before making more flippant comments.

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12 hours ago, Leaver said:

You jest, however, lockdowns have been proven to work, globally

Show me one statistic on this. There are conjectures but the only instance I am aware of is Sweden vs its neighbors.  Sweden had no lockdowns and its rate is nearly identical to Lithuania and Estonia which followed the EU Covid guidelines.   Yes it is higher than Norway, Finland, and Denmark, but Lithuania and Estonia are just as close.   

Lockdowns and quarantines were more prevalent in New York and New Jersey but their Covid infection and death rates were and are higher than Florida and Texas that did not.  Before you jump on the population density argument, the highest rates in the USA are in North Dakota, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Iowa and Utah.  Not exactly those with high population density.  

So show me one study that has demonstrated that areas with lockdowns have lowered the infection rate compared to adjacent areas with no lockdown. 

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1 hour ago, Thomas J said:

Have you ever been to Texas.

Yes, multiple times.  What has that got to do with it?

Bringing Andorra into the discussion is madness. Bringing little Bahrain into it is too... yes been there too... small populations provide distorted positions.

I say the lockdowns in Thailand  have produced the desired effect, it killed off the first wave. 

 

I also said total infection numbers were higher in Tx and Fl than NY and NJ, probably because they were too dim  to put on their masks. (Yep been to Fl) ...

 

Most populated US City is NY, second is LA (high Covid in Ca)  Houston would be #4. Texas suffered badly as they did not implement measures. Knuckleheads' in control.

 

1 hour ago, Thomas J said:

The older you are, the more likely you are to get Covid.

 No proof of this, you are more likely to get symptomatic Covid and serious complications. 

 

I see in another post you bring Dumbo into it...you lost me now!

 

1 hour ago, Thomas J said:

The same is true in Thailand.  If anything the draconian measures have minimal impact in reducing Covid but they have a devastating impact on the economy. 

 

The economy was doomed to suffer irrespective as tourists would have dried up.... to say lockdown has had 'minimal impact' is ignorant... the numbers fell rapidly in Ph 1 when lockdowns were implemented. Were you in Thailand at that time?

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

No but I believe that the governments around the world are being asked "how are you going to respond to this"  They don't want to say "there is little we can do"  So they make up ridiculous measures to show they are doing something. 

You have a virus that is so pervasive that it needs to be studies and contained within a BSL Level 4 virology lab but somehow that 10 baht mask is going to prevent you from catching it.   

As to moronic yes.  Perhaps you can enlighten me as to the logic of why you can openly dine in a congested mall coffee shop but not have a glass of beer in an open air restaurant.  How it is now OK to have a masseuse directly in front of my face for a foot massage but swimming in the ocean is prohibited.  Why I can have my barber stand next to me for upwards of 30 minutes in close proximity or be shoulder to shoulder with people in the waiting room of a government office but being on a beach is prohibited?

I believe the government not just here but around the world can do precious little to prevent people from contracting Covid through restrictions.  Not any different than they can't prevent the flu, the common cold, or TB.   The biggest thing they could do is to expedite the procurement of effective vaccines, which is the one thing Thailand is been the most negligent in doing.  



 

You want me to enlighten you?  Really, I think you are incapable of seeing anything that might slightly alter the model you have created of how to handle Pandemics.  You only see things that confirms your believes and all else is moronic or completely overlooked.

 

Here is what I believe have fun showing me I'm a moron.

 

* Mask help immensely  limiting the spread

* Mask reduce the dose of exposure and lessen the odds of death after contracting Covid

* Lockdowns work in the short term and should be less restrictive now. We know more  and think there has to be a way to be more systematic about who, where and when semi-isolation is justified.  It really isn't the isolation that is the issue, it is what collateral damage it causes.

* Herd immunity might have worked for this virus knowing what we know now. Also, huge downside risk!  Officials that implement such a plan would need elephant size gonads.  Sweden tried and the politicians could not take the heat.

 

Post is already too long. You make some good points but IMO need to realize you are too vested in your stance to see clearly.  I see a different Thailand than you.  One that has mandated masks and drastically cut down on close contact.  You only see certain instances and apply these failures to everything.

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18 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

I can tell you but I guess I can't understand it for you.

I am prepared to listen.... but are you?

For example all that guff you posted at the bottom of the post backs up what I said, not what you said..... !

It  is clear you did not read what I posted, nor understand what you actually wrote.

Quote

The older you are, the more likely you are to get Covid.

No.....

 

We talk of Thailand and you bring up China and North Korea..... ? 

 

I do not believe you could have handled the situation better, more likely much worse for the people of Thailand. And that is saying something with the lot we got running things here. 

The measures I see and discussion I watch makes sense to me..... and is credible.... 

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What if a vaccine wasn't developed and we are still battling Covid three years from now?  I think herd mentality would have a large support base and that would include me.   Protect the vulnerable and move on.  

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6 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

that "uncrowded" coffee shop at Big C extra Pattaya. 

Was having a coffee in BigCX yesterday, not at all crowed. 50% of seats are not to be used. 

 

But yes, if places do not act accordingly, they should be closed. So you promote more stringent measures?

Other pics aren't all that crowded for here! Nor current. Many government offices eg paying my water bill, I now have to do outside. 

 

Covid is not a conspiracy.. it is a virus.... you do not seem to get that. 

 

Beaches are open around Pattaya... your news is old news.

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

your logic" if things should be closed because of keeping people out of close proximity to each other, how about these pictures of a supermarket, government office and that "uncrowded" coffee shop at Big

You have made several stupidly long posts that dont actually say anything useful.

Next time you want to post your life story, do it somewhere else please.😜😜😜😜😜

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1 minute ago, Thomas J said:

Using "your logic" if things should be closed

You have said all this before and it was no more credible for repeating it. We are annoying other posters and going in circles. 

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Some posts with an altered quote have been removed also off topic posts about New York.

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I know some Thais who put their life savings into trying to save their businesses on Samui. And failed, as every effort was sabotaged by Pratin. Same applies to Pattaya, Phuket, Krabi, Lanta, CM, and other spots.

 

This is a national tragedy. And who is to blame? Well, the spread could have likely been contained back in December with a 14 day, 2km. radius (of the seafood market area with 900 plus infections in one day) lockdown of Samut. So, the Pratin pair are to blame. Fair and square. Entirely on their small and feeble shoulders. Take the heat boys. You messed up badly. 

Edited by spidermike007
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