UK visitor visa was rejected \ turn down ????

[nomad2019]

My girlfriend /partner has been turned down for a UK visit visa we used a company in Bangkok against my wishes. [Company name removed, to comply with Forum Rules], I wanted to use another better known company but my partner went ahead and used this company.

 

Any how this company filed our papers everything was in order including WhatsApp chats going back 3 years,.  My savings in the bank approximately 500000 THB,.   Partners savings approximately 400,000 thb,. Money transfers I had sent to her over 3 year period,.  Photographs etc etc,.  My government papers and all of my passport stamps and my house rental tenancy agreement and my my income from welfare benefits in the UK,. I am incapacitated at the moment I have come down with renal failure kidney disease and I cannot now travel as I am on dialysis,.    I have worked most of my life in a good job offshore.

 

The embassy refusal letter states that they were concerned that my partner would not return home even though she has a mentally and physically handicapped child who is in a home /  in chonburi,. Where he is well looked after and she pays for this school.     The embassy refusal even goes on to say that he did not have enough funds I cannot understand this because she proved her bank statements/ her funds,. I also showed 6 months bank statements and funds so how were they able to deny her on these grounds , absolutely ridiculous.      

She works as a massage therapist,   not a sexy massage shop !     The visa consultant told her not to declare this workplace on her application I have only found this out today, i called her and asked her why the hell didn't she be honest and tell the embassy that she worked in a massage shop at decent massage shop but she told me me that she was advised not to say where she worked the visa company told her that she should say she was self-employed in agriculture i.e. farmer.    She does own land and she does make money from farming but I feel that she should have been honest 100% to the embassy and told them that yes she does work in a massage parlour.   

Is there any way to appeal,.   What would our next move be,.   Before applying even again should we wait 6-months or 1 year,.   I am really annoyed at her for being so silly and listening to this Visa consultant.     If anyone would like to see the refusal letter then I can send it via email I don't want to post it on here as there a personal details on it.

Feel free to send me a pm

thank you in advance

Edited August 10, 2021 by theoldgit
"Agent" name removed.

[2long]

Are you sure this application isn't for MY wife? ???????????? Because she would have done the same... listened to me for as long as it took me to speak, and then taken the advice of a Thai. ???????? I sort of get where she's coming from (listening to them) but as you say she's in regular massage and could possibly have even proven it. Anyway, that is done now. Time to move on.

 

I feel that you have plenty of grounds for appeal, and you could even claim that the agency misled your lady. However, other members will have more experience than me on how long to wait. Is the UK summer important to you? If yes, waiting 6 months might be better, and certainly from a Covid point of view.

 

Good luck! ????????????????????????????????

[brewsterbudgen]

Blank out the personal details, and post the refusal notice if you want specific advice.

 

There's no appeal for a Visitor visa, but she can reapply straightaway if she can address the reasons for the refusal.

 

Sounds like she was badly advised by the agent. Hopefully the agent's fee was refunded as the visa was rejected.

[Tony M]

You have got yourselves into a bit of a mess now.  I would be happy to have a look at the refusal notice, and give whatever advice I can or, as brewsterbudgeon says, post it here with all personal details removed.  However, the  matter of your partner's employment is a problem now. As you say, it might not have been if your partner had declared her actual employment. Is there any mention of employment in the refusal notice, either her claimed employment or her actual employment ? 

 

Any new application for a visit visa now stands the chance of being refused, depending on how it is presented, and whether the next ECO accepts any explanations or not.  Possibly the biggest problem is now admitting that your partner didn't declare her actual employment, as the use of "fraud" or false representations in any previous application can lead to refusal in any new application,  and admitting that her real employment was not disclosed is a virtual admission of a false representation in the previous application.

 

There is no right of appeal in visit visa applications, as previously mentioned above.

[Pmbkk]

1 hour ago, nomad2019 said:

The embassy refusal letter states that they were concerned that my partner would not return home even though she has a mentally and physically handicapped child who is in a home /  in chonburi,.

 

Did she stipulate this on the cover letter, i.e. were immigration aware of this ? I believe that's their main concern - justification that the visitor will return back to Thailand due to ties. When my wife first did her visitor application ( before we were married ) she had her boss write a letter saying she was expected back to work on x date. She also showed her house deeds, but I'm sure an ongoing rental agreement would suffice.

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, nomad2019 said:

including WhatsApp chats going back 3 years,

Who keeps chats for three years? And why?

[yeahbutif]

It sounds to me the the sponcer don't have enough income or money in a UK Bank to keep here for the trip not sure how many months he applied for .....would need return tickets back to Thailand . what ever find tell the immigration you need to backup with documents. 

[Bangkokhatter]

I think your getting too hung up on the employment angle.

 

Although you have not posted the refusal letter, you do say in your OP they have doubts she will return.

 

This is the point you should be focusing on, proving your girlfriend has every intention of returning to Thailand after her visit.

[DaLa]

Sorry if this sounds hard, but looking at it from the immigration officers point of view :

 

She's leaving a handicapped child - strange for a mother to do that

She's leaving the farm -  whose going to look after the farm

She's coming to the UK to be with you , and it appears you have no plans to go to Thailand - ergo, you would possibly want her to stay indefinitely.

 

Did she answer those questions on the application?

 

Unfortunately the refusal is one of the hardest to rectify as it's an opinion as apposed to an issue you can fix ( eg. an incorrect document)   My wife ( rather than an agent ) has helped numerous ladies here obtain visas in the past and has simply re applied immediately so it's not necessary to wait any fixed length of time.

 

Although it isn't a requirement she always made sure there was a return airline ticket  which was booked at full fare ( ie. fully refundable). 

 

Finally and this is just my opinion, the number of visa applications presently must be a fraction of 2 years ago.  That will mean her application  has received greater scrutiny and I suspect that governments ( look at Australia for instance) are using Covid as a way of restricting unnecessary travel....unless of course you are a pro sportsman in which case you are almost free to travel.

[nomad2019]

On 8/10/2021 at 10:08 AM, brewsterbudgen said:

Blank out the personal details, and post the refusal notice if you want specific advice.

 

There's no appeal for a Visitor visa, but she can reapply straightaway if she can address the reasons for the refusal.

 

Sounds like she was badly advised by the agent. Hopefully the agent's fee was refunded as the visa was rejected.

no, no refund

and for sure the agent mislead the embassy staff and my partner 

[nomad2019]

21 hours ago, yeahbutif said:

It sounds to me the the sponcer don't have enough income or money in a UK Bank to keep here for the trip not sure how many months he applied for .....would need return tickets back to Thailand . what ever find tell the immigration you need to backup with documents. 

I proved that I had£10,000 in savings plus an income of approximately £1,200 per month.      My partner proved that she has 400000 Thai baht in the bank

[nomad2019]

On 8/10/2021 at 11:26 AM, KannikaP said:

Who keeps chats for three years? And why?

anyone in the world can keep WhatsApp chats they are automatically kept anyway all you need to do is export the chat and it will go back  years,.    Do you know how to use WhatsApp ?

[nomad2019]

On 8/10/2021 at 10:49 AM, Tony M said:

You have got yourselves into a bit of a mess now.  I would be happy to have a look at the refusal notice, and give whatever advice I can or, as brewsterbudgeon says, post it here with all personal details removed.  However, the  matter of your partner's employment is a problem now. As you say, it might not have been if your partner had declared her actual employment. Is there any mention of employment in the refusal notice, either her claimed employment or her actual employment ? 

 

Any new application for a visit visa now stands the chance of being refused, depending on how it is presented, and whether the next ECO accepts any explanations or not.  Possibly the biggest problem is now admitting that your partner didn't declare her actual employment, as the use of "fraud" or false representations in any previous application can lead to refusal in any new application,  and admitting that her real employment was not disclosed is a virtual admission of a false representation in the previous application.

 

There is no right of appeal in visit visa applications, as previously mentioned above.

Hi

Here is refusal letter, thanks

[Tony M]

Thanks for posting the refusal notice.  It raises some further questions, of course.  First there is mention of a previous refusal.  How long ago was that ?  Was the application to visit you ?  What was your partner's occupation at that time (as stated on the application form) ?  What were the reasons for refusal in the previous application ?

 

It is clear that the ECO  was not happy with the employment. He states 'you "claim" to be self employed', which kind of implies that he doesn't necessarily believe the claim.  She said that she was self-employed as a farmer ?  What kind of income did she claim ? Does she own land ? Did she provide any evidence of land or income ?  An explanation for all of this will be required for any new application

 

 

 

[nomad2019]

2 hours ago, Tony M said:

Thanks for posting the refusal notice.  It raises some further questions, of course.  First there is mention of a previous refusal.  How long ago was that ?  Was the application to visit you ?  What was your partner's occupation at that time (as stated on the application form) ?  What were the reasons for refusal in the previous application ?

 

It is clear that the ECO  was not happy with the employment. He states 'you "claim" to be self employed', which kind of implies that he doesn't necessarily believe the claim.  She said that she was self-employed as a farmer ?  What kind of income did she claim ? Does she own land ? Did she provide any evidence of land or income ?  An explanation for all of this will be required for any new application

 

 

 

yeah, she gives them title deeds from her land she give bank statements from her agricultural business.

She was very foolish to believe the visa company

lesson learnt. 

Ps

I was shocked to learn that she was refused a visa before I asked her about this but couldn't get any sense though she did live in Sweden with her ex-boyfriend twice for 6 months at a time I'm and returned home to Thailand on time I'm I will enquire more into this maybe her boyfriend and Sweden made a visa attempt before ,I'm not sure

[georgegeorgia]

Immigration know more than you imagine, something in there obviously more to the story regarding the previous application.

 

They go on about not believing she will leave & overstay , did she overstay in Sweden ?

 

The only way to find out is to put a freedom of information application in to see the documents the immigration have on her eg personal info on what their suspicious of, we don't even know what info she put in the previous application, was it the same etc ,they are looking at that , something is not quite right and they know something we don't

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by georgegeorgia

[Chivas]

Reminds me of my first application and I even remember the entry officers name David Mxxxxxx in 1999 who issued a similar notice to which point he had the courtesy to actually address a question I had that morning (they are not obliged to but I was very polite)

 

Me..."What can I do to address this refusal"

 

DM..."Marry her and I cant refuse you"

 

We did in very short order, reapplied now with full visa application and not a single piece of documentation was "read" that Friday morning late December before Christmas.....She waiked into office at 08.00 (document folder handed in 3 minutes earlier) and walked out 60 seconds later with the words

 

"they're just applying the insert to passport"

 

To this day 22 years later I scratch my head lol

 

It was as if the guy had written on the file nice couple and fair play if a marriage visa is applied for.....and it was

[theoldgit]

Misleading and unhelful post removed, though it was posted in good faith.

[theoldgit]

9 hours ago, nomad2019 said:

yeah, she gives them title deeds from her land she give bank statements from her agricultural business.

She was very foolish to believe the visa company

lesson learnt. 

Ps

I was shocked to learn that she was refused a visa before I asked her about this but couldn't get any sense though she did live in Sweden with her ex-boyfriend twice for 6 months at a time I'm and returned home to Thailand on time I'm I will enquire more into this maybe her boyfriend and Sweden made a visa attempt before ,I'm not sure

 

She seems to have mentioned her business, but the ECO implies that she hasn't clarified who would be taking care of said business during her proposed extended stay in the UK.

 

The fact that she lived in Sweden twice for six month periods does indicate that she can spend extended periods away from Thailand, she might well have declared this fact in the previous application for the UK, that it would seem you were not aware about, though it beggars the question what else is there.

 

I have removed a misleading post which could muddy the waters, the UK Embassy does not supply a list of UK Immigration Advisors.

[KannikaP]

15 hours ago, nomad2019 said:

anyone in the world can keep WhatsApp chats they are automatically kept anyway all you need to do is export the chat and it will go back  years,.    Do you know how to use WhatsApp ?

Yes I do. I open the app and either talk to someone, or read/send a message to them. After I have understood what has been written or said, I delete it.

[ivor bigun]

PITY its so far to row a dinghy from Thailand to dover ,then you would not have a problem ,free hotel free food free money the works,

my wife lived with me in the UK for many years ,we have lived in Thailand for a long time now ,but if we wanted to go back to live in the UK we couldnt,as i dont earn 18600 pounds a year pension ,we would have somewhere to live ,crazy ,now whers that dinghy .?

[theoldgit]

I’ll let that one go, but no more dinghy comments please.

 

@ivor biggin subsequently makes a valid point.

[nomad2019]

On 8/12/2021 at 3:18 AM, KannikaP said:

Yes I do. I open the app and either talk to someone, or read/send a message to them. After I have understood what has been written or said, I delete it.

then your 1st reply is nonsense,.    Anyone who is thinking long term of visa arrangements will keep their WhatsApp chat logs,  simple ???? everyone knows this ????

except you  ????

[KannikaP]

11 minutes ago, nomad2019 said:

then your 1st reply is nonsense,.    Anyone who is thinking long term of visa arrangements will keep their WhatsApp chat logs,  simple ???? everyone knows this ????

except you  ????

Absolute rubbish. I have taken my GF to UK and Shengen FIVE times without any message/text/chat logs. No photos, only bank details and a letter of invitation from me.

[Harry Black]

On 8/12/2021 at 8:06 AM, theoldgit said:

I have removed a misleading post which could muddy the waters, the UK Embassy does not supply a list of UK Immigration Advisors.

I think you'd find they'd prefer if you did it yourself.

[nomad2019]

Can I ask one more piece of advice since this BS no good visa agent in Bangkok told my partner believe out her job description ie massage ( not sex massage )    should I write an email to the UK embassy in Bangkok and explain to them that my partner was mislead and ill-advised on what to to put forward in her visa application basically she was told to leave things out and to lie.     Understandably my partner girlfriend was too keen to make the application and very naive to listen to these people all I want at the end of the day was her money I think it's a bloody disgrace that they are still in business I actually like the manager a message from my Facebook and she replied with a few Smiley's, not very professional.

I think the decision will go against my partner for years to come and I just want the embassy to understand the right way of things and how she was coerced into giving the information she gave

[nomad2019]

On 8/12/2021 at 2:06 AM, theoldgit said:

 

She seems to have mentioned her business, but the ECO implies that she hasn't clarified who would be taking care of said business during her proposed extended stay in the UK.

 

The fact that she lived in Sweden twice for six month periods does indicate that she can spend extended periods away from Thailand, she might well have declared this fact in the previous application for the UK, that it would seem you were not aware about, though it beggars the question what else is there.

 

I have removed a misleading post which could muddy the waters, the UK Embassy does not supply a list of UK Immigration Advisors.

thank you for your advice would it be advisable to to email UK embassy in Bangkok and tell them that this Visa agent is not being upfront and honest with their applications

[Boarn]

16 minutes ago, nomad2019 said:

thank you for your advice would it be advisable to to email UK embassy in Bangkok and tell them that this Visa agent is not being upfront and honest with their applications

When I got a visit visa for my wife 6 years ago to go to UK for a few weeks (which was against my will, vowed never to go back to that hell hole but she wanted to go) it was pretty easy as we live in Thailand have a business, staff, assets etc, not coming back would be to our detriment. 

 

I have had friends (3) who don't live in Thailand try for visit visas for wives and girlfriends and get turned down. The issues is not about employment here, it's they will do anything to decline if they can, looking at the application they can easily say they don't believe she will go back hence the refusal. If you can make it look like she will go back then you will be fine. They look at it and see she's not eligible for a longer stay visa and think you may be trying to circumvent this.

 

I feel for you, they really are bastards in the UK, hate them. Wish you luck.

[Tony M]

37 minutes ago, nomad2019 said:

Can I ask one more piece of advice since this BS no good visa agent in Bangkok told my partner believe out her job description ie massage ( not sex massage )    should I write an email to the UK embassy in Bangkok and explain to them that my partner was mislead and ill-advised on what to to put forward in her visa application basically she was told to leave things out and to lie.     Understandably my partner girlfriend was too keen to make the application and very naive to listen to these people all I want at the end of the day was her money I think it's a bloody disgrace that they are still in business I actually like the manager a message from my Facebook and she replied with a few Smiley's, not very professional.

I think the decision will go against my partner for years to come and I just want the embassy to understand the right way of things and how she was coerced into giving the information she gave

You would be wasting your time.  The Embassy in Bangkok has nothing to do with UK visit visa applications. The applications are dealt with in New Delhi, India.  However, the ultimate responsibility for the application lies with your partner. She signed the application form to declare that all of the information in the application was correct and true. With regard to the agent who dealt with the application, the UKVI will say that it is a case of "buyer beware", and they will declare a complete lack of interest. If you want to use an agent again, then use an agent that is registered with the OISC (Office of the Immigration Services Commissioner) in UK . There are a couple of UK registered agents who also have offices in Thailand.

[theoldgit]

39 minutes ago, nomad2019 said:

thank you for your advice would it be advisable to to email UK embassy in Bangkok and tell them that this Visa agent is not being upfront and honest with their applications

 

The UK Embassy plays no part whatsoever in the visa application process, so no it would not be advisable to send them an email explaining what happened.

 

All applications are considered by out of country UKVI staff, sending them an email as you describe will be of no use whatsoever.

 

The UKVI will, more than likely, take the stance that the applicant is fully responsible for the contents of their application, and the fact your partner acted on the advice given by an "agent" will be of no interest, I doubt very much if they would respond.

 

As you've been advised before, even a reputable agent would find it very difficult unravelling the damage done in the previous application.