Divorce: How To Make Him Pay?

[fredcyber]

My thai wife's sister married an Englishman in the UK 3 years ago. They returned to Thailand after one year and are heading for separation and an inevitable divorce due to his intolerable behavior. All of his assets are in property in Thailand held through a

49%/51% Thai company. To complicate matters they now have a baby.

He has made it clear to her that if she leaves he will give her nothing and she has no money to fall back on.

For my part I am not going to pay for the upkeep of his wife and child nor do I want my wife to do so. I am however prepared to fund a divorce which ensures that he meets his responsibilities.

The question is that whilst obtaining a divorce will be possible how do I ensure he pays whatever is awarded to his wife and child?

Divorce in the UK is one option as is Thailand, I think, as shortly after they returned she went to her home amphur with a thai translation of the marriage certificate and changed her ID card to one bearing her married name so I hope this equates to registration of the marriage in Thailand thus opening up the Thai option.

Any opinions would be gratefully received as would recommendations of a lawyer in Thailand or the UK.

[Maizefarmer]

The courts will almost certainly order him to do one of the following: some split or other of the assets (that is assets accrued during the marriage - not before), and/or issue a maintenance/support order of some sort.

I think (emphasize I think - please get this checked), in anticipation of "flight" there is a way a legal way of preventing him for example of selling the house and dissapearing with the proceeds (assuming a house is part of the assets accrued since marraige). And what about any land - which almost certainly won;t be in his name - if this applies (i.e. not rented).

Either way - no, legally he cannot just walk away from his support responsibilities - and if he does, not with standing any court judgement, he's a bastard and no loss in my opinion.

You really do need to get professional advice on this - and the sooner the better, because it will sure be hard as hel_l to enforce any court order once he's left Thailand.

PS - if it's of any value, he sure won;t get permission or custody of the child - the courts in Thailand with very few exception, alway give mom custody (although in this case thats a non-issue from what you have said).

Get professional advice as soon as poss.

MF

Edited May 29, 2007 by Maizefarmer

[cm-happy]

Ask a mod to move thread to "Ladies Forum".

They may be more attuned to this & more sympathetic, than the guys.

You've heard of the old expression when dealing with divorce.

She got the mine, He got the shaft.

[fredcyber]

Thank you for your responses. I do intend to take professional advice (hence my request for lawyer recommendations) but before I do I want to understand as much as I can. The more you dig into this the more complex it becomes and as there are clearly alternatives I want to be able to evaluate the advice I am eventually given.

I decided to post in this forum first as it seemed the most broadly used and later will move to the families and children forum.

[Shah Jahan]

to make it simple for you:

forget about getting a divorce in LOS. there is no legal system here, its what ever you can get away with.

besides if the guy is smart and you initiated legal proceedings in Thailand, he would just legally move the money around to a new company/other country etc....

if you don't believe me, then you will after you spend 100k's in legal fees and all you get is a smiling lawyer and a stack of documents.

as for in england...well good luck

btw... you are sticking your hand into a basket of snakes.

if her sister was with a thai man and you tried to do the same thing to help, then the common conception would be that you are trying to steal his wife and he would have the unwritten right to defend himself against you as if you were breaking and entering into his home. at least thats how the courts would look at it.

Edited May 30, 2007 by Shah Jahan

[sbk]

OP has requested that the thread stay here for now. I suggest instead of useless comments some useful advice might be more helpful.

[Crossy]

No experience here but IMHO she should go for a divorce in the UK, there are mechanisms in place there to ensure he coughs up for his child if nothing else.

Best of luck

[sbk]

As this is clearly an emotional question I have deleted off topic comments. This thread does not need to degenerate into that.

If you have no other opinion to offer than "I'm on his side" or "he's a scum" don't bother.

If you have valid advice to offer then please do so. Otherwise, don't be surprised if your post gets deleted. And remember to read the forum rules before posting.

Excessive, aggressive posts against other members, moderators and admin; or flaming will not be tolerated. 'Flaming' is best defined as posting or responding to a message in a way clearly intended to incite useless arguments, rants, and/or for launching personal attacks, insulting, being hateful, useless criticism, name calling, swearing and other bad behavior or comments meant to incite anger.

Do not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or any attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants. The word, or its derivative, "trolling", is used to describe such messages or the act of posting them.

3) Religious or racial slurs, rude and degrading comments towards women, or extremely negative views of Thailand will not be tolerated.

[cmsally]

Here's a start maybe

Family law

Law details

Its from the website of a reputable law firm in BKK

[mpdkorat]

My thai wife's sister married an Englishman in the UK 3 years ago. They returned to Thailand after one year and are heading for separation and an inevitable divorce due to his intolerable behavior. All of his assets are in property in Thailand held through a

49%/51% Thai company. To complicate matters they now have a baby.

He has made it clear to her that if she leaves he will give her nothing and she has no money to fall back on.

For my part I am not going to pay for the upkeep of his wife and child nor do I want my wife to do so. I am however prepared to fund a divorce which ensures that he meets his responsibilities.

The question is that whilst obtaining a divorce will be possible how do I ensure he pays whatever is awarded to his wife and child?

Divorce in the UK is one option as is Thailand, I think, as shortly after they returned she went to her home amphur with a thai translation of the marriage certificate and changed her ID card to one bearing her married name so I hope this equates to registration of the marriage in Thailand thus opening up the Thai option.

Any opinions would be gratefully received as would recommendations of a lawyer in Thailand or the UK.

Get a good local family lawyer here in Thailand. Where is the property located, as a local lawyer will have contacts in his local Amphur. Remember anything bought after a legal marriage the proceeds can be split 50/50. He will also be ordered to help support the child on a monthly basis. The mother will also be expected to support the child, so do not expect the father to pay all the expenses.

[fredcyber]

Thank you sbk for your help and cmsally for the links.

mpdkorat, the property is in Pattaya and she is not after property or a lot of money just sufficient, each month, to rent a room and take care of herself and the baby. If he had any sense at all he would realise he is getting off lightly.

crossy I guess you are referring to the CSA which has a terrible record when matters have to be dealt with that are outside the UK.

Shah Jahan, I do not intend to take any action unless I am forced to but I cannot stand aside and do nothing.

[GuestHouse]

Don't rule out divorce in the UK.

Get your wife to talk to her sister to find out if he has any property or sources of income in the UK, if he has (including pensions) then she can persue him in an English court for either divorce and/or maintenance.

An English court can also be asked to enforce this by court seizure of assets where there are grounds to believe he will not pay, as he is out of the court's jurisdiction, but any assets he has in the UK would not be, then it is easy to argue that she needs a court seizure to ensure enforcement.

ALSO - There are International Agreements for Reciprocal Enforcement of Maintenance Orders (REMOs), you'd need to get a lawyer to advise on how they work but essentially a court order for maintenance made in participating countries is enforcable overseas (in both directions).

While the UK is a signatory, I'm not sure abbout Thailand, so check.

[fredcyber]

Yes I know Pepe, unfortunately I'm close enough to both sides to understand them both. What they want to do is up to them as long as they face up to their responsibilities.

GuestHouse, I have checked and there is no REMO with Thailand. He has no assets in the UK, no address and no banking arrangements so one concern I have is that an English court will decide it does not have jurisdiction on the grounds that he has voluntarily given up his UK domicile which is why I am also investigating the Thai options.

[Luckydog]

Sorry, but why does a this Farang have to be made financially responsible for his Wife and Kids, when Thais almost NEVER are?

[GuestHouse]

Sorry, but why does a this Farang have to be made financially responsible for his Wife and Kids, when Thais almost NEVER are?

1. While that may be true within your own social circle, it is by no means true of Thais in general.

2. One person's callous disregard for the welfare of his/her children is not license for all to behave in such a manner.

[Luckydog]

Sorry, but why does a this Farang have to be made financially responsible for his Wife and Kids, when Thais almost NEVER are?

1. While that may be true within your own social circle, it is by no means true of Thais in general.

2. One person's callous disregard for the welfare of his/her children is not license for all to behave in such a manner.

With respect GH. Over the years I have been in LOS I have known hundreds of Thais. Male and Female, and I have not yet come against ONE who either gave or received financial support. In fact whenever I have asked Ladies with 2/3 Kids if they get any money from their estranged/divorced Husbands, they look at me as if I am Mad!

OKOK SOME DO. I grant you that. But VERYVERY FEW......

[GuestHouse]

Like I say, it is perhaps true within your own social circle.

Calling on 'all those years in Thailand' doesn't change my observation, other than suggesting that after 'all those years' you perhaps ought to consider moving your socializing up the social scale a bit.

[fredcyber]

Luckdog we all have to do what we think is right. In this instance either he pays or my wife and I have to pay. The fact that many around us do not feel the need to do the same doesn't alter how we wish to live our lives.

[LivinLOS]

In Thailand.. Dont believe she will get a baht.. Also as he cannot own the land his house is on and it will already be held by a corporate shield.. Unless she has the chunk of the company then she isnt likely to get anything..

In the UK would have some possibility but.. It sounds like he has severed his ties to the UK, they cant get blood from a stone and so if he has no UK assets then I dont see what she can pursue. Also I suspect she would need to be in the UK for some court and legal process, the costs of this, if it would even be possible given her visa status, basically make this unrealistic.

Either way my feeling is she aint getting anything.

[stickman]

If she wishes to proceed with a divorce she will have to find necessary grounds to do it. It is not always easy for a woman to divorce a man in Thailand and what many are forced to do is wait until they have been apart for 3 years at which point they can file for divorce on the grounds of abandonment. I know this does not necessarily help you, but the divorce needs to be planned carefully - and a lawyer is clearly the best option there. But for sure, don't think that she can go and divorce him with anywhere near the ease with which it can be done in the West...

[sbk]

Thanks to everyone for keeping this on topic, except, obviously luckydog who failed to read my post.

Further posts of this nature will be deleted and the poster warned.

This is a very loaded question with many people who have an emotional issue attached. If you cannot offer advice, then I ask again that you refrain from posting. The OP does not want to hear your opinion about Thai women, Thai men, divorce, support or farang men. But rather, any advice or recommendations for a good law firm that can help in this situation.

[fredcyber]

sbk thank you once again. LivinLOS and Stickman you have both confirmed my worries about this situation but while I have found law firms on the internet in both the UK and Thailand I have no idea if they are reputable/competent this is why I would dearly love recommendations from people who have actually used a law firm for family law matters.

[raindrops]

I am suing my husband for a divorce.

My situation is different from your sister in law but if she has legitimate reasons for divorcing her husband then there are always ways.

You will definitely need proper legal advice, I can recommend my lawyer. If you are interested, PM me for details.

[mikethevigoman]

to make it simple for you:

forget about getting a divorce in LOS. there is no legal system here, its what ever you can get away with.

besides if the guy is smart and you initiated legal proceedings in Thailand, he would just legally move the money around to a new company/other country etc....

if you don't believe me, then you will after you spend 100k's in legal fees and all you get is a smiling lawyer and a stack of documents.

as for in england...well good luck

btw... you are sticking your hand into a basket of snakes.

if her sister was with a thai man and you tried to do the same thing to help, then the common conception would be that you are trying to steal his wife and he would have the unwritten right to defend himself against you as if you were breaking and entering into his home. at least thats how the courts would look at it.

I agree, this needs to be sorted by them,.lawyers here are no better than ambulance chasers in a case like this and only see baht signs,.Its almost a shame its not a bg, she would have made arrangements her own way ill bet,.

[mikethevigoman]

Sorry, but why does a this Farang have to be made financially responsible for his Wife and Kids, when Thais almost NEVER are?

So should we follow suit ? ,. if (and i hope it dosent happen ) my wife and i split with our daughter i wouldnt even need to be asked for financial support, its a natural thing to do in my eyes,.maybe most of the thai men have no money to suppprt ?, i dont know, but this guy dosent sound like a peasant and should at least offer support and be responsible for his daughters well being,.its dificult i know to access any domestic as we dont know both sides, is the child his ? has she been unfaithful ? ,all things we know nothing about,. IF she ends up another single mum with a 50-50 baby i feel very sorry for them whatever happened,.

[mikethevigoman]

Sorry, but why does a this Farang have to be made financially responsible for his Wife and Kids, when Thais almost NEVER are?

1. While that may be true within your own social circle, it is by no means true of Thais in general.

2. One person's callous disregard for the welfare of his/her children is not license for all to behave in such a manner.

You have echoed what i said but in an educated manner, thankyou

[fredcyber]

mikethevigoman, this is her first and only child and it is his and no she has not been unfaithful. Her biggest sin is probably watching too much TV. Raindrops I have PM'd you or at least attempted to do so.

[MTW]

One law firm I have met with that seems very good, at least the lawyers I met, is: Tilleke & Gibbons in BKK.

Phone 02 263 7723

I know what I am about to say may not be helpful, but what happened to the sinsot? Maybe the husband didn't pay any, but if he did??? From what I have read, the best excuse for sinsot is that it is to protect the woman in case of divorce.

However, the situation may not be as dire as it looks now, especially if the husband does not want a divorce. Of course he is going to make it look as difficult as possible, if his wife leaves him. He may soften over time, or maybe if the wife sees that her life will not be so great alone and without his money, she may see the problems as less difficult to handle. (You have not mentioned what makes the husband so bad).

Maybe she needs to "bite the bullet" so to speak, and stay with him while she goes to school or gets herself set up to financially take care of herself. Even Western women have to do this, and stay in unhappy marriages, because of the kids, etc. Most Western woman can not just move in with their brother-in-law and have their children and themselves provided for. If she thinks she will have the same good financial lifestyle, no matter what her choice, maybe she is not working very hard at working out her marriage. I'm not saying this is true, because I have no idea what her problems are with her husband, but maybe something to think about. Good luck.

[sbk]

Posts not within the parameters I have outlined have been deleted.

[fredcyber]

MTW thank you for your help. Tilleke & Gibbons were near the top of my list of possibilities. Of course para 3 is possible I just believe in being prepared for the worst. She is trying very hard as outlined in para 4. As far as his behavior is concerned I would list abusive, adulterous, lazy and kii niow to a quite staggering extent.