8 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Just watching a program about German auto show. Some guy was harping on about innovations in electric vehicles? 

Maybe someone can explain.? It's a car. Take out one source of prime mover and substitute another. 

Ignorance is Bliss with some foks ... this might help you understand just 1 thing about BEV, quite the innovation.

 

When driving your ICEV, and you take foot off the accelerator, does it send fuel / energy, back to the fuel / energy tank / pack.   The BEV does.   

 

Let just that sink in, and get back to us 

10 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Just watching a program about German auto show. Some guy was harping on about innovations in electric vehicles? 

Maybe someone can explain.? It's a car. Take out one source of prime mover and substitute another. 

 

Yes, some do get a little over excited especially the media with a dollar to reel in.

Energy recovery system technology that's been around and developed for more than 120 years is hardly an innovation. Similar for complex electronic motor drives which have been moving vehicles and machinery for decades. 

 

Battery technology has moved on recently but its nothing worth getting too excited about. EV network systems are nothing special either, all of the data-bus ground work was done in the west many moons back.

Having said all that, I believe EV's will increase in popularity but several significant obstacles need to be addressed before mass adoption is possible.
 

1 hour ago, Fruit Trader said:

Energy recovery system technology that's been around and developed for more than 120 years is hardly an innovation.

120 yrs ago, very unimpressive innovations since.  I'm sure they could just hop in, start, tell the car where to go, and arrive.  When it arrives, parks itself.  Nothing to get excited about.

 

Had motorcycles way back when also.  No new innovations there ...

 

 

8 hours ago, Fruit Trader said:

 

Having said all that, I believe EV's will increase in popularity but several significant obstacles need to be addressed before mass adoption is possible.
 

 

What do you consider the significant obstacles?  are they different for Thailand?

4 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

What do you consider the significant obstacles?  are they different for Thailand?

 

If you want a reflection of my opinions, get a wide spectrum result from any AI engine.

 

Q - Globally, what are the obstacles preventing mass adoption of electric cars.

 

You can have an emotionless argument with AI if the results are not to your liking.

 

Does my opinion change for Thailand. Not really.

 

It has already been agreed here that EV,s are not for everyone so the fact that obstacles preventing mass adoption exist should be obvious to even those with extreme bias.

 

Some of my personal opinion comes from use of an electric vehicle in Thailand within 200km radius over a one month period. Using this vehicle for our regular trips to the Chanthaburi and Trat regions was not practical.  
 

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

What do you consider the significant obstacles?  are they different for Thailand?

 

I'm only seeing a few obstacles for owning BEV in TH, and wouldn't affect many people at all.

... you can't charge at home, and or not convenient for you to charge at CS, though find that hard to believe for most people.

... you are constantly on the road, and time is money

 

Only 2 things that would be obstacles, and surely affect a very small amount of drivers.

What EV do you own, and is that 200 kms one way or R/T ?

 

Simply not wanting to charge occasionally, on the few times away from home, because it may take 30-45 minutes to charge, instead of 10 ish to top up with petrol.   That short amount of time vs petrol station every week or so, just doesn't compute with me, aside from the massive savings, petrol vs electrons cost.

18 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

 

If you want a reflection of my opinions, get a wide spectrum result from any AI engine.

 

Q - Globally, what are the obstacles preventing mass adoption of electric cars.

 

You can have an emotionless argument with AI if the results are not to your liking.

 

Does my opinion change for Thailand. Not really.

 

It has already been agreed here that EV,s are not for everyone so the fact that obstacles preventing mass adoption exist should be obvious to even those with extreme bias.

 

Some of my personal opinion comes from use of an electric vehicle in Thailand within 200km radius over a one month period. Using this vehicle for our regular trips to the Chanthaburi and Trat regions was not practical.  
 

 

Sorry most of my post was lost.  I've outlined the chargers around Trat & Chantaburi, it really shouldn't be an issue for you now.

 

Summary, whilst I agree that EV’s are not currently for everybody, those few unsuitables are gradually disappearing.  I don’t believe living in a condo and or not having a charger at home is not an issue.

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Sorry most of my post was lost.  I've outlined the chargers around Trat & Chantaburi, it really shouldn't be an issue for you now.

We've driven to Chantaburi & Trat and no issues finding convenient, along our route CS.  And that was Dec 2023 - Jan 2024, so surely many more CS now.  Didn't hop over to any islands, but there were CS close enough to the ports, you wouldn't need to charge on the islands.

 

27 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Sorry most of my post was lost.  I've outlined the chargers around Trat & Chantaburi, it really shouldn't be an issue for you now.

 

Summary, whilst I agree that EV’s are not currently for everybody, those few unsuitables are gradually disappearing.  I don’t believe living in a condo and or not having a charger at home is not an issue.

 

 

 

 

No amount of EV charge stations will match the convenience of giving our Fortuner a 5 minute fuel shot for 800+ clicks of work. For a relaxed trip down the East coast sucking up the Amazon Café view points, yes.  The local delivery trucks could go electric and solar charge but there's nothing on the market at the moment that would give us the confidence to change.

15 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

 

No amount of EV charge stations will match the convenience of giving our Fortuner a 5 minute fuel shot for 800+ clicks of work. For a relaxed trip down the East coast sucking up the Amazon Café view points, yes.  The local delivery trucks could go electric and solar charge but there's nothing on the market at the moment that would give us the confidence to change.

I'm sure it takes a lot longer to top up you Fortuner than 5 mins, especially if on the low side of 50%.  Took 10-15 minutes every time I took our MG ZS to top up, and that was <40 liters.

 

Times that 2-3-4 times a month X 12 months.  Yea, that slight (never for us) inconvenience occasionally when O&A is really insignificant ... IMHO, vs time saved every week X 12 plugging in/out (1 min) at home.

 

At a fraction of the cost of petrol.

36 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I'm sure it takes a lot longer to top up you Fortuner than 5 mins, especially if on the low side of 50%.  Took 10-15 minutes every time I took our MG ZS to top up, and that was <40 liters.

 

Times that 2-3-4 times a month X 12 months.  Yea, that slight (never for us) inconvenience occasionally when O&A is really insignificant ... IMHO, vs time saved every week X 12 plugging in/out (1 min) at home.

 

At a fraction of the cost of petrol.

Flowrate Options: Standard & High Flow

Delivery Speed: 40 – 50 L/Min for standard flow and 70 – 80 L/Min for High Flow

https://www.smartflowtech.com/service/fuel-pumping-solutions/

Fortuner has a 80L tank so filling up in 5 minutes from the time that the pump enters the tank until the pump leaves the tank for most people they do reduce the flowrate for the last 10 litres

 

49 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Flowrate Options: Standard & High Flow

Delivery Speed: 40 – 50 L/Min for standard flow and 70 – 80 L/Min for High Flow

https://www.smartflowtech.com/service/fuel-pumping-solutions/

Fortuner has a 80L tank so filling up in 5 minutes from the time that the pump enters the tank until the pump leaves the tank for most people they do reduce the flowrate for the last 10 litres

 

 

The BIL put 65L in the Fortuner early this morning so I just pulled the dash cam footage.

 

3 minutes and 10 seconds to pump the fuel 1 minute and 5 seconds to make the payment 30 seconds to scratch his balls.

So for the hair splitters here, lets make it an average 10 minute fuel stop to gain 800+km. As for the cost, we are not losing any sleep.

51 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Flowrate Options: Standard & High Flow

Delivery Speed: 40 – 50 L/Min for standard flow and 70 – 80 L/Min for High Flow

https://www.smartflowtech.com/service/fuel-pumping-solutions/

Fortuner has a 80L tank so filling up in 5 minutes from the time that the pump enters the tank until the pump leaves the tank for most people they do reduce the flowrate for the last 10 litres

 

Irrelevant if you don't live in TH and never topped up at Thai petrol station.  10-15 mins for us, <40 liters, and not overly crowded.  Real world experience.

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

Irrelevant if you don't live in TH and never topped up at Thai petrol station.  10-15 mins for us, <40 liters, and not overly crowded.  Real world experience.

AI Overview

In Thailand, the flow rate of a standard petrol pump nozzle is typically 

between 40 and 50 liters per minute. However, some pumps offer a higher flow rate, especially for larger commercial vehicles, which can dispense fuel at a rate of 70 to 80 liters per minute. 

It would appear that AI doesn't share your Real world experience

11 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

So for the hair splitters here, lets make it an average 10 minute fuel stop to gain 800+km. As for the cost, we are not losing any sleep.

 

we bev users don’t lose any sleep over the cost either, i think it's actually the opposite ... we sleep better knowing our electric cars are far ahead of ice  .... 

 

the old argument about quick fuel stops still works for motorheads who don’t need a wc break, don’t eat, and see a 20-minute driving pause as a “restriction” of their personal freedom. but for people open to new technology, who don’t feel the need to get from a to b (a long distance) as fast as possible without any break, this argument no longer holds ... 

 

wishing safe driving to all bev and ice fans ... 

19 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

AI Overview

In Thailand, the flow rate of a standard petrol pump nozzle is typically 

between 40 and 50 liters per minute. However, some pumps offer a higher flow rate, especially for larger commercial vehicles, which can dispense fuel at a rate of 70 to 80 liters per minute. 

It would appear that AI doesn't share your Real world experience

The flow rate isn't necessarily the time consumer.  Customer service or lack of.  I might believe 5 mins, if we were allowed to pump it ourselves and pay with CC at pump.   

 

We've never made it out in 5 mins, unless there was a power outage and they weren't pumping at all.   I'm sure as hell not believing 3 mins.  Takes that long to realize you're there, walk over and start pumping, if they're not tending to someone else.   Petrol station always understaffed.

2 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

we bev users don’t lose any sleep over the cost either, i think it's actually the opposite ... we sleep better knowing our electric cars are far ahead of ice  .... 

 

the old argument about quick fuel stops still works for motorheads who don’t need a wc break, don’t eat, and see a 20-minute driving pause as a “restriction” of their personal freedom. but for people open to new technology, who don’t feel the need to get from a to b (a long distance) as fast as possible without any break, this argument no longer holds ... 

 

wishing safe driving to all bev and ice fans ... 

As I stated many times for us, I honestly don't think we've had to wait for the car to finish, as we are not done doing whatever, and the car is 90-95%.  We don't wait till 100%, as the last 5% goes in way too slow.

 

Pull in, plug in, I take dog for walk, wife goes to toilet, then browses.  I put dog in car, go toilet, then browse for munching options.  Food court, 7-11 (ready made meal, need heating up), or KFC, usually 7-11, if not just for coffee, as PTT usually have those 3, if not more, along with kiosks and other vendors.

 

At 70 yrs old, yes, get out, stretch, walk around, avoid DVT, just like long flights on a plane.   Yea, we take longer than most at the station, so others may need to wait a few minutes for car to be at 90-95%.

 

We also don't run it down to <30% often, 25% usually the lowest.  That's about 3 hrs driving, if lucky, and if wife or dog didn't want to stop earlier.  3+ hrs is more than enough for me, and I want out.  Longer and my back is going to be an issue later on.  If rested, and feeling good, may even do another 2 hr leg, and common 1st day, as seen everything with 5 hrs of home already.  Or screw it, get a hotel straight away.

 

Rarely do we wait till 100% charge, unless I'm looking for hotel after munching, and about the only time we left with 100%.

13 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

The flow rate isn't necessarily the time consumer.  Customer service or lack of.  I might believe 5 mins, if we were allowed to pump it ourselves and pay with CC at pump.   

 

We've never made it out in 5 mins, unless there was a power outage and they weren't pumping at all.   I'm sure as hell not believing 3 mins.  Takes that long to realize you're there, walk over and start pumping, if they're not tending to someone else.   Petrol station always understaffed.

I'm a big fan of EVs but definitely can't agree with you. I filled up my 54 litre XC40 this morning with 50 litres. I was literally in and out in 5 minutes. PTT, attended to right away, three minutes to pump, a minute or so to pay with a QR, receive some cumbersome bottles of water and off I went.

It is funny how the people on each side of any argument love to exaggerate the positives and negatives. There is simply no way it takes anywhere near 15 minutes to have your petrol car filled up. Just as there is no way that sitting in a smelly rattly Fortuner for 800kms straight is something anyone would ever do.

18 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

we bev users don’t lose any sleep over the cost either, i think it's actually the opposite ... we sleep better knowing our electric cars are far ahead of ice  .... 

 

the old argument about quick fuel stops still works for motorheads who don’t need a wc break, don’t eat, and see a 20-minute driving pause as a “restriction” of their personal freedom. but for people open to new technology, who don’t feel the need to get from a to b (a long distance) as fast as possible without any break, this argument no longer holds ... 

 

wishing safe driving to all bev and ice fans ... 

 

We run a business that is mostly delivery time critical with continuously varying logistics, diesel powered vehicles are best suited to our operation. We have done the electric vehicle evaluation already, maybe the future holds an alternative but not today.

The subject of this sub thread is obstacles preventing mass adoption of electric cars. 

I reckon I save about 5 hours per year by having electric.

 

I wake up to a tank full of electrons every morning.

 

I would agree, unless @Fruit Trader ‘s fleet is doing under 300km/day, he’s not ready for BEV, however, for his personal car, I would urge him to take a test drive in a Sealion 7, far more relaxing.

32 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

It is funny how the people on each side of any argument love to exaggerate the positives and negatives. There is simply no way it takes anywhere near 15 minutes to have your petrol car filled up. Just as there is no way that sitting in a smelly rattly Fortuner for 800kms straight is something anyone would ever do.

No exaggeration from me, as maybe the station at PKK is simply understaff, and un-motivated to work efficiently.  Actually for us, the petrol trip was a special trip, as it is not along or normal daily routes to anywhere.   The PTT station in town always has a Q.

 

I don't even count 8+ minutes extra to get to the PTT @ PKK, if making a Makro run, as closest thing to the station that we use.

 

At Udon Thani it was a bit opposite, and the wait times, were about the same, only because so many cars, and usually a Q if car in front of you, or attendant on other side of station.  Definitely over worked when busy, which was often.

 

 

A usual day at the other local PTT station ... NO thanks

too small & busy usually, even though would be on my usual route to park or surfside.  Hated topping there to top up, so rarely did.

 

On 8/20/2024 at 7:44 PM, Pib said:

 

Had the Rat Guard installation done on my Atto today along with having the 12 month/20,000Km scheduled maintenance checkup.  The checkup done a little early at 10 months/19,200km....I asked to have the checkup done a little early since I was having the Rat Guard installation done today...kill two birds with one stone....the dealership didn't have a problem with the early checkup since I was within 1,000km of the 20,000km checkup point.   The Rat Guard installation and checkup took a total of 1 hr 45 min.  All free.   Done at my local BYD dealership.

 

 

If some parts need replacing, do they have it ' in stock ' or it needs to be ordered from the head quarters ?

37 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

If some parts need replacing, do they have it ' in stock ' or it needs to be ordered from the head quarters ?

Your dealership probably has the Rat Guard kit in stock, but if the don't they will order it from the BIG BYD parts center in Bangkok.  Just go to a dealership and make an appt for the install.   Whatever install date they give you they will have the parts come that install date.  If the install date they give you is several weeks or so down the road that probably means they are busy/fully booked over the coming weeks "or" they need to order the kit...it may take a week or two to come in...and that's why they give an install date of several weeks down the road.   Heck, you never know...the dealership may give you an early install datee....like they can do it the next day.  How fast a dealership can work on your BYD vehicle can vary greatly from dealership to dealership and just how busy (or not so busy) they happen to be be when you go ask for some some/maintenance.

 

Yeap....call/visit your dealership.    

17 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Actually for us, the petrol trip was a special trip, as it is not along or normal daily routes to anywhere. 

 

Same for me as would be MG or PEA charge points.

35 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

 

Same for me as would be MG or PEA charge points.

So you can't charge at home ???

 

For us, the MG & PEA CS are on the way to Swensen's & Pizza Co, which are at the Lotus's mall, which has Altervim CS there.   

 

There's more CS than Petrol station here, kind of surprising, since such a small town, but next to Hwy 4

 

Map is 'home to Swensen's'     More CS in that small stretch, than petrol stations in all of town.

 

If we couldn't charge at home, wouldn't be an issue at all.  We'll hit Swensen's and or Pizza Co during the week, so easy to top up.   Or if not out for a munch, hit MG, and do the same as I'm doing now, use internet, while sipping Cappuccino (they have a machine), and snacking on treats while charging.   Or I could simply walk the dog around there, instead of the park or surfside. 

 

If I wanted to walk the dog surfside, like I do a couple times a week, the Hadthong Hotel, (surfside) has chargers.   Best view of the bay from their restaurant.

 

Options abound ...

 

 

PKK town

 

 

 

20 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

however, for his personal car, I would urge him to take a test drive in a Sealion 7, far more relaxing.

 

I own only one vehicle here in Thailand, an adventure bike which gives me all the pleasure and comfort I need. Left a  Land Rover Defender soft top and two dirt bikes back home in Kefalonia, can't wait to reunite with them early next year when our work here is complete. 

 

Done some EV test drives to satisfy curiosity, comfortable and quiet but not for me. A while back we had an MG4 standard range parked in the yard while owner was overseas. Fun comfortable well built little car for around the town. 

 

The BIL recently loaned a GWM Tank 500 HEV for a few days, now that was quite an impressive vehicle for the price.

I don't believe the MMCC/GW BS, but seriously, what is the point of regulations.   We all know, or should, that auto makers won't be able, or don't want meet, the EV mandates.  Or worse, the fossil fuel govts, won't upgrade the grid fast enough to provide the juice they'll need.

 

Here's a different twist in USA, as auto makers don't want to, or can't meet the MPG regulations or get fined.  No problem, as they continue to miss the mark.   Solution, eliminate the fine (not allowed to), or rather, simply make it $0.00 

 

Yes, I get most of my news from RT News & YT ... and agree with Reagan, 'trust but verify' 

 

 

On 9/24/2025 at 7:14 PM, Pib said:

Your dealership probably has the Rat Guard kit in stock, but if the don't they will order it from the BIG BYD parts center in Bangkok.  Just go to a dealership and make an appt for the install.   Whatever install date they give you they will have the parts come that install date.  If the install date they give you is several weeks or so down the road that probably means they are busy/fully booked over the coming weeks "or" they need to order the kit...it may take a week or two to come in...and that's why they give an install date of several weeks down the road.   Heck, you never know...the dealership may give you an early install datee....like they can do it the next day.  How fast a dealership can work on your BYD vehicle can vary greatly from dealership to dealership and just how busy (or not so busy) they happen to be be when you go ask for some some/maintenance.

 

Yeap....call/visit your dealership.    

 Don't have byd car yet but was thinking to buy the plug in hybrid suv , sealion 

 

Any idea or review of it?

15 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

 Don't have byd car yet but was thinking to buy the plug in hybrid suv , sealion 

 

Any idea or review of it?

No idea....I've never been interested in PHEVs....and now after having my BEV (a 100% electric vehicle...my BYD Atto) for almost 2 years I'll probably never buy another ICE vehicle nor an HEV or PHEV as long as I live in Thailand.     HEV and PHEV no longer interest me as such vehicles are basically a combustion engine and an electric engine vehicle which means two different drive systems that can break....more complicated than a BEV.

 

Now if I was still living in the U.S. since it's so huge and since the charging infrastructure sucks in most locations (and not going to improve much under Trump) I would probably (and reluctantly) buy an HEV or PHEV.   But in Thailand where they have very good EV charging infrastructure on major highways and within cities the simplicity, power, efficiency of a BEV makes more sense than an PHEV/HEV in my opinion.

 

Get the Sealion 7...a BEV.

 

 

12 hours ago, DrJoy said:

 Don't have byd car yet but was thinking to buy the plug in hybrid suv , sealion 

 

Any idea or review of it?

@DrJoy

about 3 years ago i was close to buying a phev (haval 6). why did i decide against it? i researched bev and came to the conclusion that for our needs and driving profile, a full electric car is the only right choice. today i only regret that i didn’t switch to bev much earlier (since the model selection in thailand was limited back then) ... 

 

what are your reasons for thinking to buy a phev instead of a bev? how many km do you drive daily / yearly? do you regularly drive long distances (several hours without wanting to stop)? what are your concerns about a fully electric car?