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LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency


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In regards to point 10. it says "Evidence of intellectual property ownership". I thought that was if you earn under 80K USD per year? What exactly is that if I will require proof of it? The work I do for my employer is owned by my employer. My employer isn't going to reveal IP.

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12 minutes ago, DjChris28 said:

The issue with that is even if i got an elite visa if I ever want to work there, i'd have to cancel the elite visa to get the non imm b visa and they won't refund the remainder of the elite visa..

 

It's a shame i can't run the 2 visa side by side, that is an elite visa and a non imm b visa for when iu'm working there. And then when no longer working, they just cancel the non imm b visa but i can still visit via the elite visa without having to pay again for the elite visa.

I stand to be corrected, but I recall reading that you can suspend use of the Elite visa when you get a Non B visa, and reinstate use of the Elite when you no longer have a valid Non B or extension based on working. Anyone know different?

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1 hour ago, BritTim said:

I stand to be corrected, but I recall reading that you can suspend use of the Elite visa when you get a Non B visa, and reinstate use of the Elite when you no longer have a valid Non B or extension based on working. Anyone know different?

A friend with an elite visa said the same, I think Thailand Elite was his source. Anyone interested in doing this could check with them for confirmation.

 

I need the ability to work but am not tempted by getting an elite card. The LTR is a better fit than the annual hassle of Non B & work permit extensions.

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On 7/25/2022 at 12:29 AM, DjChris28 said:

In regards to point 10. it says "Evidence of intellectual property ownership". I thought that was if you earn under 80K USD per year? What exactly is that if I will require proof of it? The work I do for my employer is owned by my employer. My employer isn't going to reveal IP.

Correct. That's only if you earn below 80K (it says it kicks in from 40K and up to 80K).

 

Regarding point 15, I got additional precisions from the BOI:

For Line 15, the correct sentence should be

Financial evidence showing an income of no less than 80,000 or 40,000 USD in current year e.g. bank statement, pension scheme e.g. pension certificate indicating monthly or yearly pension or bank statement in the last 12 months

 

They have not directly answered my gross/net income question, but but they seemed to say that any official proof of income or combination thereof would be acceptable, so it's income regardless of origin (i.e. not limited to pension). I'll go on a limb and say that at this stage we're indeed talking pre-tax income.

NW

 

Edited by Northwest87
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On 7/27/2022 at 2:55 PM, Northwest87 said:

Correct. That's only if you earn below 80K (it says it kicks in from 40K and up to 80K).

 

Regarding point 15, I got additional precisions from the BOI:

For Line 15, the correct sentence should be

Financial evidence showing an income of no less than 80,000 or 40,000 USD in current year e.g. bank statement, pension scheme e.g. pension certificate indicating monthly or yearly pension or bank statement in the last 12 months

 

They have not directly answered my gross/net income question, but but they seemed to say that any official proof of income or combination thereof would be acceptable, so it's income regardless of origin (i.e. not limited to pension). I'll go on a limb and say that at this stage we're indeed talking pre-tax income.

NW

 

I tried messaging BOI in Sydney Australia. They havn't responded to my email.

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I was just reading the thai elite website:

 

https://thailand-elite.com/visa/

 

It says this under "Can I work with a Thailand Elite Visa?"

"If your business is oversea and your income are earned from oversea, you can hold a Thailand Elite Visa."

 

I'm thinking, wait?? so you can legally work remotely on an elite visa all this time? Or do they mean you can have the visa in your passport if you currently have a business back home, generate revenue back home but while doing the actual work reside in your home country?

 

There is three things here:

a) Where the business is located

b) Where the income is paid from

c) Where the work is physically done from

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1 hour ago, DjChris28 said:

I was just reading the thai elite website:

 

https://thailand-elite.com/visa/

 

It says this under "Can I work with a Thailand Elite Visa?"

"If your business is oversea and your income are earned from oversea, you can hold a Thailand Elite Visa."

 

I'm thinking, wait?? so you can legally work remotely on an elite visa all this time? Or do they mean you can have the visa in your passport if you currently have a business back home, generate revenue back home but while doing the actual work reside in your home country?

 

There is three things here:

a) Where the business is located

b) Where the income is paid from

c) Where the work is physically done from

As a practical matter, you can work anywhere, including in Thailand, if neither your employer nor any customers are in Thailand. Strictly speaking, there ought to be some limitations, but the authorities have decided to tolerate any work that does not potentially deprive Thais of the same work.

 

Thus, what the Thailand Elite folks say about remote work is true. Also, if careful, you can avoid being liable for Thai tax. The key guideline is to keep current year income separate from your savings (different account) and only bring in money that was not earned in the current year. If you fail to take this precaution, the Thai tax authorities are very unlikely to come after you, but they technically could.

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29 minutes ago, BritTim said:

As a practical matter, you can work anywhere, including in Thailand, if neither your employer nor any customers are in Thailand. Strictly speaking, there ought to be some limitations, but the authorities have decided to tolerate any work that does not potentially deprive Thais of the same work.

 

Thus, what the Thailand Elite folks say about remote work is true. Also, if careful, you can avoid being liable for Thai tax. The key guideline is to keep current year income separate from your savings (different account) and only bring in money that was not earned in the current year. If you fail to take this precaution, the Thai tax authorities are very unlikely to come after you, but they technically could.

So technically, it's not legal then. The point is I have to sell this to my employer of the legal and tax status.. All I need is Thailand elite visa to come forward and say we can do it, because if we are ever taken to court or deported for working remotely, Thailand elite will be held responsible lol. My employer doesn't want to find out they are liable for tax or employment issues.

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50 minutes ago, DjChris28 said:

So technically, it's not legal then. The point is I have to sell this to my employer of the legal and tax status.. All I need is Thailand elite visa to come forward and say we can do it, because if we are ever taken to court or deported for working remotely, Thailand elite will be held responsible lol. My employer doesn't want to find out they are liable for tax or employment issues.

If the company's lawyers closely examine the Thai law on this, they might provide a negative opinion. Thailand Elite stating what is true in practice is not a legal opinion, and trying to hold them responsible for statements on their website would not be practicable.

 

All that can be said is that there are tens of thousands of long stay remote workers in Thailand, and millions of tourists every year who engage in some work while here on holiday. None of them have been or will be prosecuted. If there was a good way to specify in law what is tolerated, the Thai authorities would probably do that. They consider it easier just to base enforcement on what is good for Thailand and its people. Going after foreigners who make their money in a way that has no impact on the country would be, not only unhelpful, but actually detrimental to Thailand.

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11 minutes ago, BritTim said:

If the company's lawyers closely examine the Thai law on this, they might provide a negative opinion. Thailand Elite stating what is true in practice is not a legal opinion, and trying to hold them responsible for statements on their website would not be practicable.

 

All that can be said is that there are tens of thousands of long stay remote workers in Thailand, and millions of tourists every year who engage in some work while here on holiday. None of them have been or will be prosecuted. If there was a good way to specify in law what is tolerated, the Thai authorities would probably do that. They consider it easier just to base enforcement on what is good for Thailand and its people. Going after foreigners who make their money in a way that has no impact on the country would be, not only unhelpful, but actually detrimental to Thailand.

It's also by law in our country (Australia) that we have to withheld tax, if the employee is working overseas and that country will tax (After 60 consecutive days outside the country, our government says we must withheld tax if the other country will tax) , but because there is no formal rules, that is what stops it.

 

Fun and games:

https://www.ato.gov.au/business/payg-withholding/in-detail/employees-who-work-in-a-foreign-country/

 

"

  • Your employee is in any foreign country for a consecutive period of at least 60 days. The period of 60 consecutive days commences at the time that the employee starts work in the foreign country. This period includes non-working days and will end if the employee returns to Australia."
Edited by DjChris28
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We are closing in on September 1st when they will open up the LTR for registration.  As of today the programs specifics have not been completely rolled out for all to see.  They better pull their heads out because it will take a few weeks for folks to get all of the required paperwork in place to apply.  Thinking the September 1st date is a pipe dream.  I will need to apply in October as my current extension of stay expires in November, and I am hoping the parameters for the requirements are all in place by then.......????

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On 8/5/2022 at 1:48 AM, DjChris28 said:

I tried messaging BOI in Sydney Australia. They havn't responded to my email.

Use [email protected]

I have found them responsive (typically a 3-4 days turnaround), and they have provided answers that go beyond generalities.  For instance, they asked me to send them a copy of income documents I was asking about, and they replied they are acceptable and I could apply starting on Sept 01st. They also have put the following QR codes in their latest answer.


LTR Visa Unit


line-LTR.jpg    fb-LTR.jpg 

Edited by Northwest87
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On 8/5/2022 at 6:46 AM, DjChris28 said:

It's also by law in our country (Australia) that we have to withheld tax, if the employee is working overseas and that country will tax (After 60 consecutive days outside the country, our government says we must withheld tax if the other country will tax) , but because there is no formal rules, that is what stops it.

 

Fun and games:

https://www.ato.gov.au/business/payg-withholding/in-detail/employees-who-work-in-a-foreign-country/

 

"

  • Your employee is in any foreign country for a consecutive period of at least 60 days. The period of 60 consecutive days commences at the time that the employee starts work in the foreign country. This period includes non-working days and will end if the employee returns to Australia."

We (I'm guilty of it too) have overthinking this, but there has been a bit of vagueness (or at least it can be read that way) in the rules as they were sometimes put forward in various releases. I got pretty confused by this at some point, even though I have been there and done that: I worked in Thailand before, locally for a Thai employer and online for foreign employers simultaneously. I have been checking on this a bit better and it's fairly clear: the work permit in the LTR scheme is for the Highly-Skilled Professionals category, who will work in Thailand for an employer located there (not necessarily a Thai one) and will pay a 17% income tax rate in Thailand.

 

When you work online from Thailand on any type of visa for a foreign employer located abroad and the money is paid on a foreign bank account, you are not in any way in contravention of Thai laws or rules: you are simply surfing the web. You are not hiding anything and they don't pretend not to see it: there is nothing to hide or see as far as they're concerned, and you report and pay taxes on that income in your own country. If you are working in Thailand under the HSP visa scheme, and your country has a tax treaty with Thailand, you can invoke it and not be double-taxed. This certainly applies to Australia and that's why these treaties are in place.

 

Of course, this should be double-checked with BOI: they do answer email inquiries.

 

NW

 

Edited by Northwest87
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1 hour ago, Northwest87 said:

We (I'm guilty of it too) have overthinking this, but there has been a bit of vagueness (or at least it can be read that way) in the rules as they were sometimes put forward in various releases. I got pretty confused by this at some point, even though I have been there and done that: I worked in Thailand before, locally for a Thai employer and online for foreign employers simultaneously. I have been checking on this a bit better and it's fairly clear: the work permit in the LTR scheme is for the Highly-Skilled Professionals category, who will work in Thailand for an employer located there (not necessarily a Thai one) and will pay a 17% income tax rate in Thailand.

 

When you work online from Thailand on any type of visa for a foreign employer located abroad and the money is paid on a foreign bank account, you are not in any way in contravention of Thai laws or rules: you are simply surfing the web. You are not hiding anything and they don't pretend not to see it: there is nothing to hide or see as far as they're concerned, and you report and pay taxes on that income in your own country. If you are working in Thailand under the HSP visa scheme, and your country has a tax treaty with Thailand, you can invoke it and not be double-taxed. This certainly applies to Australia and that's why these treaties are in place.

 

Of course, this should be double-checked with BOI: they do answer email inquiries.

 

NW

 

Actually, the link provided by mudcat provides clearer info on all that: https://www.bdo.th/en-gb/insights/long-term-resident-visa-approved-for-high-potential-foreigners-in-thailand

 

Overview of the process

  1. Apply for a Certificate of Qualification (COQ) online. The application will be processed within 20 days from receipt of all required documents.
  2. Apply for an LTR with the Royal Thai Embassy, Royal Thai Consulate-General abroad or the Immigration Bureau in Thailand within 60 days from the issuance of the COQ. The processing fee for a multiple entry LTR is THB 50,000 per person.
  3. If the applicant will work in Thailand, he/she must comply with the work permit and visa regulations. He/she can then apply for a digital work permit and collect it at the Department of Employment at the One Stop Service Center in Chamchuri Square Building, Bangkok, or any provincial labor office. The processing fee for the digital work permit is THB 3,000 per year.
  4. An LTR will initially be granted for not more than five years, but may be extended for an additional five years. However, to extend the visa, the LTR holder must reapply for a COQ.

Benefits for LTR visa holders:

  1. Fast-track services at Thailand’s international airports.
  2. The regular 90-day report to the immigration authorities only has to be provided annually.
  3. The LTR visa will automatically include a multiple re-entry permit.
  4. An LTR visa holder under the highly skilled professional category is entitled to a final withholding tax rate of 17%.
  5. An exemption from personal income tax on foreign-source income for Wealthy Global Citizens, Wealthy Pensioners or Work from Thailand Professionals under the regulations prescribed in the Thai Revenue Code.
  6. Processing of a work permit via the BOI One Stop Service Center.

 

Edited by Northwest87
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7 hours ago, Northwest87 said:

We (I'm guilty of it too) have overthinking this, but there has been a bit of vagueness (or at least it can be read that way) in the rules as they were sometimes put forward in various releases. I got pretty confused by this at some point, even though I have been there and done that: I worked in Thailand before, locally for a Thai employer and online for foreign employers simultaneously. I have been checking on this a bit better and it's fairly clear: the work permit in the LTR scheme is for the Highly-Skilled Professionals category, who will work in Thailand for an employer located there (not necessarily a Thai one) and will pay a 17% income tax rate in Thailand.

 

When you work online from Thailand on any type of visa for a foreign employer located abroad and the money is paid on a foreign bank account, you are not in any way in contravention of Thai laws or rules: you are simply surfing the web. You are not hiding anything and they don't pretend not to see it: there is nothing to hide or see as far as they're concerned, and you report and pay taxes on that income in your own country. If you are working in Thailand under the HSP visa scheme, and your country has a tax treaty with Thailand, you can invoke it and not be double-taxed. This certainly applies to Australia and that's why these treaties are in place.

 

Of course, this should be double-checked with BOI: they do answer email inquiries.

 

NW

 

We've had legal and tax consultation on this topic, and always been told that officially work done in Thailand is work in Thailand, no matter where the employer is or the salary is paid.  But my understanding is that if a foreigner is here for a shorter period of time - say on vacation or a business trip, there should be no problem with working online, sending emails, etc. 

 

However, for longer periods - say more than 183 days in a calendar year - a work permit is in fact required by law.  In that case it wouldn't matter that the work is done online or that the employer is overseas. 

 

Be happy if any legal or tax adviser could jump on and clarify. 

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Just want to throw some fodder out there....   

 

This is who the LTR Visa is intended for...not the expats/sexpats on Asean Now who thought it was meant for them.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/i-live-better-in-thailand-than-i-did-in-the-u-s-here-s-how-much-it-costs/vi-AA10nj0A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5312d115bb0647319a3025723039c106

Walking ATM.jpg

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1 minute ago, mosan said:

Just want to throw some fodder out there....   

 

This is who the LTR Visa is intended for...not the expats/sexpats on Asean Now who thought it was meant for them.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/i-live-better-in-thailand-than-i-did-in-the-u-s-here-s-how-much-it-costs/vi-AA10nj0A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5312d115bb0647319a3025723039c106

Walking ATM.jpg

You really believe that or is this just plain old sarcasm....As an Ex-pat It is intended for folks like me, unless you think all expats are poor and only here for sex....

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12 hours ago, Northwest87 said:

Actually, the link provided by mudcat provides clearer info on all that: https://www.bdo.th/en-gb/insights/long-term-resident-visa-approved-for-high-potential-foreigners-in-thailand

 

Overview of the process

  1. Apply for a Certificate of Qualification (COQ) online. The application will be processed within 20 days from receipt of all required documents.
  2. Apply for an LTR with the Royal Thai Embassy, Royal Thai Consulate-General abroad or the Immigration Bureau in Thailand within 60 days from the issuance of the COQ. The processing fee for a multiple entry LTR is THB 50,000 per person.
  3. If the applicant will work in Thailand, he/she must comply with the work permit and visa regulations. He/she can then apply for a digital work permit and collect it at the Department of Employment at the One Stop Service Center in Chamchuri Square Building, Bangkok, or any provincial labor office. The processing fee for the digital work permit is THB 3,000 per year.
  4. An LTR will initially be granted for not more than five years, but may be extended for an additional five years. However, to extend the visa, the LTR holder must reapply for a COQ.

Benefits for LTR visa holders:

  1. Fast-track services at Thailand’s international airports.
  2. The regular 90-day report to the immigration authorities only has to be provided annually.
  3. The LTR visa will automatically include a multiple re-entry permit.
  4. An LTR visa holder under the highly skilled professional category is entitled to a final withholding tax rate of 17%.
  5. An exemption from personal income tax on foreign-source income for Wealthy Global Citizens, Wealthy Pensioners or Work from Thailand Professionals under the regulations prescribed in the Thai Revenue Code.
  6. Processing of a work permit via the BOI One Stop Service Center.

 

Now that I read it, it's still possible to pay tax under the work from thailand.

 

"LTR visa holders under the Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner or Work from Thailand Professional categories will be entitled to an income tax exemption under the remittance rule, i.e., income earned in previous years and brought to Thailand during the succeeding year will be exempt."

 

Meaning, you'll have to have two separate bank accounts - money you earned in previous year gets moved to this bank account and then you only spend from that previous years bank account. 

 

My employer isn't going to let me work for them under their payroll that means as a permanent employee, which means i'll need to run it through my own company to manage the tax issues. But then, will the LTR visa allow me to run it through my own company in the middle? It also means i'll be a contractor to my employer and not a permanent employee.

 

 

BDO Insight:

  • The tax concessions can be revoked with retrospective effect if the taxpayer does not comply with the conditions and requirements. This can potentially affect the employer’s tax reporting requirements.

 

And this is exactly why my employer won't allow me to do this visa under being with them an a permanent employee. If they are liable, they are not interested. Which means I have to do it through my own company which this visa won't allow (as my own company is not making 150 million USD per year).

Edited by DjChris28
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1 hour ago, mosan said:

Just want to throw some fodder out there....   

 

This is who the LTR Visa is intended for...not the expats/sexpats on Asean Now who thought it was meant for them.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/i-live-better-in-thailand-than-i-did-in-the-u-s-here-s-how-much-it-costs/vi-AA10nj0A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5312d115bb0647319a3025723039c106

 

How do you know Jesse isn't on Asean Now

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8 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

You really believe that or is this just plain old sarcasm....As an Ex-pat It is intended for folks like me, unless you think all expats are poor and only here for sex....

It can be sarcasm - for some, the experience is real...

 

I have both wealthy and poor acquaintances living here.

 

Edited by mosan
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13 hours ago, DjChris28 said:

Now that I read it, it's still possible to pay tax under the work from thailand.

 

"LTR visa holders under the Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner or Work from Thailand Professional categories will be entitled to an income tax exemption under the remittance rule, i.e., income earned in previous years and brought to Thailand during the succeeding year will be exempt."

 

Meaning, you'll have to have two separate bank accounts - money you earned in previous year gets moved to this bank account and then you only spend from that previous years bank account. 

 

My employer isn't going to let me work for them under their payroll that means as a permanent employee, which means i'll need to run it through my own company to manage the tax issues. But then, will the LTR visa allow me to run it through my own company in the middle? It also means i'll be a contractor to my employer and not a permanent employee.

 

 

BDO Insight:

  • The tax concessions can be revoked with retrospective effect if the taxpayer does not comply with the conditions and requirements. This can potentially affect the employer’s tax reporting requirements.

 

And this is exactly why my employer won't allow me to do this visa under being with them an a permanent employee. If they are liable, they are not interested. Which means I have to do it through my own company which this visa won't allow (as my own company is not making 150 million USD per year).


That's a tough one because your employer wants a say in the matter, otherwise the tax treaty would probably insure you're 100% legal in Thailand. Have you looked into the tax treaty (directly with someone at the Australian Taxation office, or whatever they are called)?

 

In the  meantime, look at this: https://www.expattaxes.com.au/thailand-tax-brief-for-australian-expats/

 

 

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1 hour ago, Northwest87 said:


That's a tough one because your employer wants a say in the matter, otherwise the tax treaty would probably insure you're 100% legal in Thailand. Have you looked into the tax treaty (directly with someone at the Australian Taxation office, or whatever they are called)?

 

In the  meantime, look at this: https://www.expattaxes.com.au/thailand-tax-brief-for-australian-expats/

 

 

The link from expattaxes confuses tax residency (a tax status) with permanent residency (an immigration status).  An expat in Thailand can easily be a tax resident without ever getting permanent residency.

 

From KPMG Thailand's website:  "A resident of Thailand for tax purposes refers to an individual who is present in Thailand for a total of at least 180 days in a given tax year (being the calendar year)."  https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2021/08/thailand-thinking-beyond-borders.html

 

 

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7 hours ago, mosan said:

It can be sarcasm - for some, the experience is real...

 

I have both wealthy and poor acquaintances living here.

 

You do realize that there are 4 categories for the LTR and not just 1.

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4 hours ago, Northwest87 said:


That's a tough one because your employer wants a say in the matter, otherwise the tax treaty would probably insure you're 100% legal in Thailand. Have you looked into the tax treaty (directly with someone at the Australian Taxation office, or whatever they are called)?

 

In the  meantime, look at this: https://www.expattaxes.com.au/thailand-tax-brief-for-australian-expats/

 

 

Yes, Australia has a double taxation agreement with thailand. 

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2 hours ago, Misty said:

From KPMG Thailand's website:  "A resident of Thailand for tax purposes refers to an individual who is present in Thailand for a total of at least 180 days in a given tax year (being the calendar year)."  https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2021/08/thailand-thinking-beyond-borders.html

That's a possibility that if I only use the LTR visa for 6 months per year and stay half the year back home, i won't be taxed for the income I bring in anyway into Thailand for those 6 months (Assuming the LTR visa doesn't require me to be in Thailand the whole year - that's another question I'm asking BOI)

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Bad news folks if you are thinking about this visa while you are under a contractor arrangement. They consider your own company as the employer. I'll have to talk to my boss to see if they will make me a permanent employee.

 

"

Please be informed that a candidate for a Work-From-Thailand Professional category must have an employer, even though they are business owners. 

 

From our point of view, we think your own private company is your actual employer rather than its clients. If you could provide us a certificate of employment or equivalent, signed by an authorized person of your company, indicating your position in your company, monthly or yearly salary, and employment period (open-ended contract). You then could apply for this visa.

 

The following condition of the Work-From-Thailand Professional category would apply only to your consulting company.

- Current employer must have one of the following characteristics;
a) a public company listed on the stock exchange in any country
b) a private company that has been in operation for at least three years and has total combined revenue of more than $150 million in the last three years (Audited corporate’s annual financial statement or financial report showing the revenue in the last 3 years of no less than 150 million USD is required as proof)


 

In answer to your second question, LTR Visa holders are able to leave or re-enter the country anytime (the visa itself is multiple type, which you do not need to obtain the re-entry permit in order to re-enter the Kingdom)
 

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@DjChris28 - this is basically what I was expecting and why this visa would never work for myself.

 

I am in the category you have identified here.

 

These requirements are utter nonsense and will exclude all of the independent contractors (who are more likely the type of people that would actually work from Thailand).

 

The only recourse I see is (as you have stated) to ask my 'client' to make me a permanent employee? I use apostrophes there as I have been contracting for them for ages and consider them my employer (though not on legally).

 

This is opposite to the way that the world is moving and in fact goes against some of the foundations of remote working.

 

They should cut the junk surrounding employer requirements and just say "show us that someone pays you >$80,000 per year for work" (irrespective of whether you are a permanent employee or you invoice them).

 

Should I hope that the protocol may change or just completely write-off this visa?

 

Cheers!

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