Four illegally run pharmacies raided in Bangkok - caught dispensing "Tramadol" cocktail to youth

[billd766]

On 12/24/2022 at 2:28 PM, ukrules said:

My mother got some Tramadol once for an issue with her back, something to do with inflammation between two discs.

 

After a few days she threw it away and vowed never to take it again, she said she was 'all over the place' with it - it messed with her mind and she would rather have the pain than continue to take it.

 

A bit extreme I thought - surely there would be a lower dose to try instead of rejecting it outright but she was adamant and to this day has never touched it again even though she still has back pain issues.

 

Your mother was right but she should have returned the Tramadol back to the pharmacy for them to dispose of.

[KhunLA]

On 12/24/2022 at 2:38 PM, Nip said:

I too suffer with sciatica and was on Tramadol for 3 years. It supposedly has c up to 11 % of heroin. I became addicted and depressed when I tried to stop taking it. Took me 4 months to come down. It reduces the pain but the addiction is life changing. 

Did you not research it before taking it.  Warnings of extended use, are not in 'fine print'.

@JayClaytramadol is readily available.  Think I have some in the house, no script needed.

[dddave]

On 12/24/2022 at 10:45 AM, lujanit said:

I suffer with sciatica, Tramadol is the only OTC medication that helps.  So it does have a legitimate place.  There appears to be some surgery that can ‘fix’ it.  My MIL had it and she ended up in more pain than before the surgery.  Back to hospital to remove the insert.  The hospital even charged her although it was their mistake.

You didn't ask for Sciatica advice so I apologize in advance but I suffered from sciatica last year and know how debilitating and painful it can be. 

These 2 guys are goofy but they really know their stuff.  I followed their exercises and it really helped.

Especially helpful was laying on the bed on my stomach with 2 pillows under my shoulder/upper chest area but with my chin overhanging.  I seemed to relive the pressure on the sciatic nerve.  Simple exercises, like from this position, head down: lifting the head slowly so looking straight ahead 6 times.   Pushing your self up with arms only, very slowly, letting the back bend and finally, slowly lifting first one leg; down, then the other about 6 inches, Repeat 6 times.

After one week of doing this routine several times a day, my sciatica passed.  

I later engaged a physical therapist who worked with me developing simple stretching and strengthening exercises.  No recurrence of the sciatica since.

  

[dddave]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Did you not research it before taking it.  Warnings of extended use, are not in 'fine print'.

@JayClaytramadol is readily available.  Think I have some in the house, no script needed.

I have severe knee pain from arthritis, especially when walking.  Tramadol helps more than any other OTC medication.   I did do research.  Most medical sites recommend no more than 100mg/day for regular usage.

I buy ULTRACET OTC.  The capsules are each 37.5 mg tramadol and 325mg paracetamol.  I get moderate relief from one tablet and that is what I usually take if I am going out and will be walking short distances. 

I will sometimes take 2 capsules, 1 hour apart if I will be walking a lot, like shopping at a Makro.  I never take 2 capsules 2 days in a row and try to not take it at all 2 or 3 days of the week.

I have never had any adverse reaction I'm aware of there has been no noticeable diminishment of effectiveness over time.

 

I remember when the Thai government banned the most effective antihistamine in sinus  medications because kids were abusing it.  Corrupt hospital officials were buying huge quantities and selling it to drug dealers.  I hope they don't do the same with tramadol.

[still kicking]

How is it possible to run an illegal pharmacy? Where I live all pharmacies need a licence 

[KhunLA]

6 hours ago, still kicking said:

How is it possible to run an illegal pharmacy? Where I live all pharmacies need a licence 

It depends what aspect of the pharmacy is illegal.

 

The pharmacy itself might not be illegal, but certain drugs that they sell may not be allowed without a prescription.  Or if a pharmacist is not on duty to advise, which I've yet to have any pharmacist advised me on anything that I purchased.   I just walk in, I asked for it and they gave it to me.

 

Years ago I walked into something like a Boots or Watson and wanted something I knew was behind the counter but the cashier was not allowed to sell it to me, because the pharmacist was not on duty.

[JayClay]

8 hours ago, KhunLA said:

@JayClaytramadol is readily available.  Think I have some in the house, no script needed

I know it's readily available. Lots of things are readily available in Thailand regardless of their legal status.

 

Anyway I'll test the waters by trying to buy some in Boots next time I pass by.

Edited December 25, 2022 by JayClay

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, JayClay said:

I know it's readily available. Lots of things are readily available in Thailand regardless of their legal status.

 

Anyway I'll test the waters by trying to buy some in Boots next time I pass by.

I would give Boots a pass, if there, would be higher priced than other places.  Got to make up for that high rent overhead.   Only used Boots when I was an ignorant ding dong farang, as simply convenient.

 

I was experimenting with tramadol, while treating pain from shingles, along with every other drug out there ????  

 

Read the warnings and thought it might be strong enough, but wasn't very impressed.   Don't know how anyone could get addicted to it, unless eating a whole sh!tload for long time.  Same with valiums, as 10mg a day, I wouldn't even notice ... ????

 

Want some good sh!t, try Oxy, that will kick your butt.

Edited December 26, 2022 by KhunLA

[JayClay]

Just now, KhunLA said:

I would give Boots a pass, if there, would be higher priced than other places.  Got to make up for that high rent overhead.   Only used Boots when I was an ignorant ding dong farang, as simply convenient.

I want to try boots to test the "It's available over the counter" claim.

[connda]

2 hours ago, JayClay said:

I know it's readily available. Lots of things are readily available in Thailand regardless of their legal status.

 

Anyway I'll test the waters by trying to buy some in Boots next time I pass by.

You won't find Tramadol 50mg at Boots with perhaps the exception of Ultracet which is over-priced 37.5mg Tram + Para.
Look around at regular pharmacies.   1 in 10 will carry it.  Most do not carry it because of the regulations they need to follow to dispense it.

Then read through this thread and note something: 
1. Some people can take Tramadol and use it responsibly.  If you use it long term, you will have to contend with withdrawal symptoms at some point in time but there are ways to alleviate them including tapering.  If you take it long term - use it for 8 months, then taper, then quit for 1 or 2 months.
2. Other people are prone to addiction especially when it comes to opiates.  Tram can make you feel very pleasant, but not forever.  Them people up their dose to 100, then 150, then 200 - they aren't "using the medicine."  They are now abusing it.  And you don't want to abuse it.  There are plenty of horror stories out there.

You've got to ask yourself: "Am I going to use Tramadol, or is Tramadol going to use me."
If the answer is the former, it is a very useful pain-reliever for moderate pain,
If the answer is the latter - months or years from now you'll be writing how Tramadol is the Devil's Brew with withdrawals worse than heroin. 

Bottom line: Addictive personalities should probably stay away from it. 
 

Edited December 26, 2022 by connda

[bkk6060]

I have taken it and am surprised it is sold over the counter and has been for many years.

Tramadol has been a big player in the U.S opioid crisis which has resulted in overdose deaths.

I feel it can be addicting even at low doses.  And, don't mix it with alcohol unless you want a major headache and a small chance at having a seizure.  Also, it does not help with sleep it actually can cause muscle twitching and insomnia.

It can relieve some pain, but it seems the risks and side effects may not be worth it.

 

[bamnutsak]

On 12/24/2022 at 8:53 AM, webfact said:

Tramadol - a yellow and green capsule

This why it is referred to as "Taxi".

 

Been a problem here for the last few years.

 

I assume something like it or similar can be fashioned in the border labs.

 

Fentanyl can't be far behind.

 

 

 

 

[dddave]

6 hours ago, JayClay said:

I want to try boots to test the "It's available over the counter" claim.

The problem with many "Boots" is that they seem to share a single pharmacist among a group of stores. More often than not, when I go into a Boots, the pharmacist is out and a curtain is drawn over the pharmaceuticals. often, only a 2 hour window per day. 

Even then, at one Boots in Pattaya, the sign said the pharmacist would be there at 2 PM,  She showed up at 3:15.

[paulbrow]

On 12/24/2022 at 10:10 AM, JayClay said:

When did that happen?

At least 2 years ago. Even though it's OTC, most pharmacies don't handle it to avoid hassles.

Edited December 26, 2022 by paulbrow
info

[connda]

8 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

I have taken it and am surprised it is sold over the counter and has been for many years.

Tramadol has been a big player in the U.S opioid crisis which has resulted in overdose deaths.

I feel it can be addicting even at low doses.  And, don't mix it with alcohol unless you want a major headache and a small chance at having a seizure.  Also, it does not help with sleep it actually can cause muscle twitching and insomnia.

It can relieve some pain, but it seems the risks and side effects may not be worth it.

 

Attribution and sources.  Where did you dig up your sources.  Please link them.

You've used it and it wasn't for you, so you disparage it's use.  "I feel it can be addicting even at low doses." Well in that case, you should avoid it and any other opioids. 
But?  We're all different.  I've had surgery with propofol as one of the general anesthetics.  A couple of times.  One of the thing I've had both doctors and nurses comment on is the fact that clear the anesthetic very fast.  They come by the bed and ask, "Why are you awake, you shouldn't be."  But I am.  "Then, how do you feel?"
Clear headed and ready to have you give me a shot of morphine for the surgical pain.  I don't clear morphine as fast, so it works pretty well post surgery.  But I'm speaking for myself.  We're all different.  Which is a fact that most Thai doctors I've met can't seem to grasp when it comes to palliative care.

Something to ponder: The word "addiction."
Opioids, as well as SSRIs (Tram is an SSRI as well) can cause physical dependence as well stop working unless you up the dosage.  So Tramadol does cause a 'dependence' as in if you stop or cut the dose you go into withdrawal.  The  body builds a resistance to the dosage.  SSRIs do the same.  It's a fact Jack.

Addiction is not having the self-discipline to know when it's time to cut the dose, and stop using it altogether.  Tramadol as an opioid/SSRI needs to be cycled.  Really.  You have to occasionally quit using it.  Then when you restart (using but not abusing) it works again.
Addiction is also falling into drug abuse.
Using it as a beneficial adjunct to pain management is having the self-discipline to cycle it.  How many people can do that willingly.  I've no answer other than - I can.
But?  I blame a lot of the post-use addiction behavior directly on the doctors who perscribe opioids but then don't provide the patients with the plans and tools necessary to taper and withdrawal - which ain't pleasant. 

I'm just being blunt: You need a lot of self-awareness as well as self-discipline.  As I stated in a previous post - if you have an addictive nature - don't take it.  Or if you do take it (via prescription and doctors orders) then research the drug thoroughly. Wanna know why the US has an Oxycontin epidemic?  Doctors will prescribe it, but most doctors don't work with their patients to inform them that they will need to withdrawal, and then make a prescription and a plan for the patient to taper off Oxy.  Nope.  Those with addictive personality take it, like it, and then don't want to quit.  But if you don't want to ruin your life?  You gotta quit.  If you're taking opioids for chronic pain - you HAVE TO cycle which means consciously quitting, taking a break, and then restarting.  And then doctors who prescribe Tramadol.  In there training they are taught that it isn't 'addicting.'  Well?  It depends who you give it to and whether of not the doctor follows up with the patient to make sure they are tapered off the drug.

Now, if you talk to a NA addict (I'm not moralizing, just being realistic) they are going to have a 180 degree different view from myself.  They have to.  Their lives literally depend on it.

And FYI.  When using Tramadol?  I have no problem with any alcohol interaction.  Some people may.  I don't personally. 

Edited December 26, 2022 by connda

[KannikaP]

18 hours ago, still kicking said:

How is it possible to run an illegal pharmacy? Where I live all pharmacies need a licence 

So do drivers.......but they don't!

[proton]

13 hours ago, JayClay said:

I know it's readily available. Lots of things are readily available in Thailand regardless of their legal status.

 

Anyway I'll test the waters by trying to buy some in Boots next time I pass by.

Not readily available, try getting it in Bangkok, Ultracet yes, pure Tramadol I have yet to find

[bang saen guy]

Never seen meds here labelled as Ultracet. Tramadol HCl 50mg is readily available. Educate me. Is this not pure Tramadol?

[Harsh Jones]

On 12/23/2022 at 7:45 PM, lujanit said:

I suffer with sciatica, Tramadol is the only OTC medication that helps.  So it does have a legitimate place.  There appears to be some surgery that can ‘fix’ it.  My MIL had it and she ended up in more pain than before the surgery.  Back to hospital to remove the insert.  The hospital even charged her although it was their mistake.

Yeah. And its not actually that powerful of a drug. It is just effective enough to work. And unlike Tylenol, it doesn't harm your liver. 

 

But the media keeps hyping it up. 

[JayClay]

On 12/26/2022 at 2:36 PM, dddave said:

The problem with many "Boots" is that they seem to share a single pharmacist among a group of stores. More often than not, when I go into a Boots, the pharmacist is out and a curtain is drawn over the pharmaceuticals. often, only a 2 hour window per day. 

Even then, at one Boots in Pattaya, the sign said the pharmacist would be there at 2 PM,  She showed up at 3:15.

I am aware of that. But if the medication is available over the counter, then when there is a pharmacy on duty, there should be no problem obtaining tramadol from them.

[JayClay]

On 12/26/2022 at 4:57 PM, paulbrow said:

At least 2 years ago. Even though it's OTC, most pharmacies don't handle it to avoid hassles.

What hassles?

[lujanit]

On 12/25/2022 at 11:55 AM, MrJ2U said:

Opiates over the counter isn't a good idea. 

 

Self medicating is an early sign of addiction.

 

Get some help. 

 

Denial is your worst enemy. 

When I first suffered with sciatica I was under the care of a doctor.  She had me take a MRI which showed a collapsed disc between L4 and L5.  This compressed the sciatic nerve.  She said that there was no treatment (at that time) and all I could do is pain management coupled with certain exercises.  She prescribed Tramadol.  Walking and riding a bicycle seems to help.

 

I know what sets it off.  Twisting my back repeatedly like when using a whipper snipper is sure to cause a flare up.  Sleeping in a bad position results in pain.  I'm too old to have 'experimental' surgery and I wouldn't want it anyway.

 

I am fortunate that I don't suffer withdrawal symptoms when I don't use it.

 

So I self medicate when necessary.  No addiction or denial here.

Edited January 5, 2023 by lujanit

[lujanit]

Sorry double post.  AN seems to be very slow atm.

Edited January 5, 2023 by lujanit

[lujanit]

.

Edited January 5, 2023 by lujanit

[paulbrow]

On 1/5/2023 at 6:55 AM, JayClay said:

What hassles?

Record keeping, customers having to sign for their orders and provide ID, etc. Extra hassles for the shops. That's what my pharmacy tells me anyways, and they do sell it. Several others have told me those are the reasons they have quit selling it.

Edited January 6, 2023 by paulbrow
More info.