Thailand's Expats Urged to Register with TRD for Tax, Says Expert

[JimGant]

4 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

Any tax resident of Thailand who remits in excess of 60k / 120k / 220k * in a tax year needs to file a tax return.

 

As per the Revenue Code. An Assessment Officer will apply TEDA's and assess whether any tax is due. An Assessment Officer, not an individual.

A little confused here. Let me insert this:

Quote

Thailand applies a self-assessment system in collecting taxes. Taxpayers are required to declare their tax liabilities in the prescribed tax returns and pay the tax due at the time of filing.

So, under the self-assessment system, it's up to me to fill in the numbers on the tax return; figure out my TEDA; bounce that against my total assessable income; and then pay any tax owed, or request a refund of overwithheld taxes, if applicable.

 

Where does an Assessment Officer enter this picture -- especially if I'm filing online?

[The Cyclist]

23 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Where does an Assessment Officer enter this picture -- especially if I'm filing online?

 

Probably these guys

 

Quote

The delay in personal income tax refunds this year is partly related to stricter document verification, as more fake documents were submitted to claim refunds, according to the Revenue Department.

Vinit Visessuvanapoom, deputy director-general and principal advisor on tax base management at the department, said this year the department has been meticulously examining tax refund documents because of an increase in fraudulent submissions, particularly fake income certificates (50 Tawi).

 

 

The above might apply to ' Tax Refunds ' that does not mean it does not apply to all tax filings

 

I already gave you the link to the RD page where it says

 

" An Assessment Officer will apply exemptions and deductions "

[connda]

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

The penalty for not filing when no tax is due, is 2k Baht. The penalties for not filing when tax is due, are severe and include jail.

The average Thai has never filed a tax form in their lives. They'd have to build concentration camps to imprison all of the Thai citizens who don't file taxes.  If they want to push it they can take the 2K THB out of the withheld interest income that they'll be refunding to me.

Back when banks actually paid more interest than they do now, I used to file every couple of years.  My wife would do the leg work and I'd give her the refunded withholding. Wife wanted me to file to get the money. Since banks pay peanuts in interest, I simply haven't gone through the motions. Nobody at the tax office said "peep" about un-filed taxes especially considering they were paying me. I used to file taxes when I worked here.  I haven't worked in 14 years. They are going to have to throw 75% of the Thai population in prison for failure to file taxes before they get around to farangs.

[Ben Zioner]

2 minutes ago, connda said:

They are going to have to throw 75% of the Thai population in prison for failure to file taxes before they get around to farangs.

The weakness in your reasoning is that they might well hit farangs first.

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

Right. So for sure, if you owe taxes, get a TIN and file a return. Common sense, when analyzed against a sensical law against tax evasion -- and some appropriate penalties. But, owe no taxes -- you're free to analyze against a nonsensical law, whose penalty is paltry (and never seen applied). Then decide to file, or not. Not really a brain teaser -- unless we see further guidance about TRD getting serious about seeing null tax returns.

 

Anyway, I'm sure most reading this are getting tired of the same old arguments. I know I am.

 

I posted the Bangkok Post articles telling us how many tax returns there were each year from people who didn't owe tax or claim a refund, substantial proof that millions of people file tax returns each year, just because they are over the minimum assessable income level.

 

I posted the extract from the TRD Code telling us that tax residents must obtain a TIN within 60 days of breaching the 60k of assessable income per year, proof once again that the Revenue requires taxpayers to file once the threshold has been breached.

 

I posted the extracts from the TRD code setting out when taxpayers must file a return, nowhere in it does it say that folks must subtract their TEDA first to see if they must file or not.

 

I posted confirmation by a Thai law firm telling us at which point tax returns must be filed and confirming all the evidence to date. All of that evidence confirms that tax returns must be filed by tac residents in the year assessable income exceeds 60k.

 

I posted copies of another members discussion with the TRD about the circumstances under which he must file a tax return, it matched exactly all the proof above.

 

You have filed no proof of anything that contradict any of the above, nothing except your home grown version of common sense. Where is your proof that what you say is true and correct?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JimGant]

6 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

The above might apply to ' Tax Refunds ' that does not mean it does not apply to all tax filings

How, then, do I file online, if I have to meet up with an assessment officer? Makes no sense. This really would put a roadblock to those who want to follow the rules and file a tax return, even if no taxes owed.

[The Cyclist]

Just now, JimGant said:

How, then, do I file online,

 

Your issue to deal with, not mine.

[connda]

1 minute ago, Ben Zioner said:

The weakness in your reasoning is that they might well hit farangs first.

You people worry too much. Relax. I'll see what shakes out in 2025 and plan accordingly.  Now - business as usual.

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, connda said:

The average Thai has never filed a tax form in their lives. They'd have to build concentration camps to imprison all of the Thai citizens who don't file taxes.  If they want to push it they can take the 2K THB out of the withheld interest income that they'll be refunding to me.

Back when banks actually paid more interest than they do now, I used to file every couple of years.  My wife would do the leg work and I'd give her the refunded withholding. Wife wanted me to file to get the money. Since banks pay peanuts in interest, I simply haven't gone through the motions. Nobody at the tax office said "peep" about un-filed taxes especially considering they were paying me. I used to file taxes when I worked here.  I haven't worked in 14 years. They are going to have to throw 75% of the Thai population in prison for failure to file taxes before they get around to farangs.

We've been over the numbers that show why the majority of Thai people don't earn enough to pay taxes, numerous times. The average wage is 15k per month or 180k per year, well below the level at which taxes are due.

[Guderian]

So how many of you turkeys are voting for Thanksgiving? lmao

[Yumthai]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

Stop considering things that might happen, act when they do happen.

You nailed it. Apply your own reasoning to tax enforcement (audit + penalties) that is yet nowhere to been seen except few specific cases. In Thailand it's productive to act a posteriori or on demand not proactively.

[The Cyclist]

10 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

You nailed it. Apply your own reasoning to tax enforcement (audit + penalties) that is yet nowhere to been seen except few specific cases. In Thailand it's productive to act a posteriori or on demand not proactively.

 

Right, let me get this straight.

 

You do not believe that Expats who have stayed in Thailand beyond 180 days in 2024 are classified as Tax Residents of Thailand and if they have remitted  ' Assessable Income ' that exceeds that 60k / 120k / 220 k threasholds laid down by the RD, and have to file a tax return.

 

Have I got that correct ?

 

Penalties and enforcement, or lack thereof, are not my concern

 

By that logic I could drink drive every night of the week, and probably never be caught. That wont do me much good though when I wrapped around try bleeding out.

Edited 3 hours ago by The Cyclist
add text

[JimGant]

7 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

substantial proof that millions of people file tax returns each year, just because they are over the minimum assessable income level.

Yeah, but you didn't say whether or not TRD is happy with all that paper, with no checks attached. Probably as we speak, they're rewriting the law. Or not -- make work ploys save jobs, especially those of bureaucrats.

 

10 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I posted the extracts from the TRD code setting out when taxpayers must file a return, nowhere in it does it say that folks must subtract their TEDA first to see if they must file or not.

I've only suggested TEDA be brought into the picture to see if you owe taxes -- and if so, then to avoid tax evasion you need to file. But, if you've only got 60k in assessable income, forget TEDA, as you have no tax liability. But the rules say you should file. That the rules suck, and need to be dealt with appropriately, is the cruz of this discussion -- not TEDA and need to file if taxes owed.

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, JimGant said:

That the rules suck, and need to be dealt with appropriately, is the cruz of this discussion

 

There are also rules and laws in probably every Country that also suck, why would Thailand be any different.

[JimGant]

38 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Your issue to deal with, not mine.

 

Can't answer the question, then.... You're the one that implied assessment officers need to go to bed with you, before you can file a tax return. I just pointed out that that's bananas.

[jerrymahoney]

Whether it means anything or not, I just got my one-year extension of stay based upon retirement using the 65K+ baht per month method and not one word was said by any IMM official as regards filing taxes.

[JimGant]

3 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

There are also rules and laws in probably every Country that also suck, why would Thailand be any different.

They wouldn't. Your point?

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, JimGant said:

 

Can't answer the question, then.... You're the one that implied assessment officers need to go to bed with you, before you can file a tax return. I just pointed out that that's bananas.

 

Your issue to deal with.

 

Jan - March would be my 1st tax filing in Thailand ( If I needed to file ) so I would be doing it person rather than online.

 

If you do not know the answer to something that pertains to you. Maybe get off your **** and go a find out, rather than bumping your gums on here, looking for answers from someone else.

[Yumthai]

20 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

You do not believe that Expats who have stayed in Thailand beyond 180 days in 2024 are classified as Tax Residents of Thailand and if they have remitted  ' Assessable Income ' that exceeds that 60k / 120k / 220 k threasholds laid down by the RD, and have to file a tax return.

 

Have I got that correct ?

I do believe that this is what the current rules say, however I do know that it is not enforced. I do also know that rules in Thailand are inconsistent, unreliable and what the current rules say today could be the opposite the day after tomorrow.

If an authority wants people to comply with the law, rules have to be sustainable and enforced consistently.

 

21 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

By that logic I could drink drive every night of the week, and probably never be caught. That wont do me much good though when I wrapped around try bleeding out.

Apples and oranges.

[JimGant]

9 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

If you do not know the answer to something that pertains to you. Maybe get off your **** and go a find out, rather than bumping your gums on here, looking for answers from someone else.

 Wow, hurts to be caught in a screw up, hey? Your words:

Quote

As per the Revenue Code. An Assessment Officer will apply TEDA's and assess whether any tax is due. An Assessment Officer, not an individual.

 

I know the answer -- no assessment officer involvement -- no way possible -- in my online tax filing, if and when I have taxable income. You're the one who said assessment officers , not individuals, have to call the shots-- and you're completely wrong. At least you can be man enough to admit your mistake....

[redwood1]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

We've been over the numbers that show why the majority of Thai people don't earn enough to pay taxes, numerous times. The average wage is 15k per month or 180k per year, well below the level at which taxes are due.

 

O please I think its pretty common knowledge the most wealthy Thais dont pay taxes....(They would never lower them self to be a tax payer)

 

And who set a fine example for the Nation of Thailand in sticking it to the tax man.....But a Billionaire former prime minister... 

 

 

I think its clear only a small sub set of the middle class pay any taxes in Thailand.....And I can only imagine the creative accounting involved in the few Thais that actually pay taxes instead of just filing to get refunds...

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by redwood1

[chiang mai]

47 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Yeah, but you didn't say whether or not TRD is happy with all that paper, with no checks attached.

You expect me to conduct happiness checks too, get real man!

[chiang mai]

28 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

O please I think its pretty common knowledge the most wealthy Thais dont pay taxes....(They would never lower them self to be a tax payer)

 

I think its clear only a small sub set of the middle class pay any taxes in Thailand.....And I can only imagine the creative accounting involved in the few Thais that actually pay taxes instead of just filing to get refunds...

 

 

You think, you think.! The potential for you to be right on this or any other point is close to zero. I think it's going to rain tomorrow, which means zero also

Edited 2 hours ago by chiang mai

[chiang mai]

48 minutes ago, JimGant said:

 

Can't answer the question, then.... You're the one that implied assessment officers need to go to bed with you, before you can file a tax return. I just pointed out that that's bananas.

In the case of the online system, the system is the assessment officer.

[The Cyclist]

34 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

I do believe that this is what the current rules say,

 

Then surely one should comply with these rules, even if you do not like them.

 

Of course, if you want to be some middle aged to old rebellious, stick it to the man, type person. By all means crack on.

 

What you should not do is try and encourage others to do the same.

[jayboy]

21 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

O please I think its pretty common knowledge the most wealthy Thais dont pay taxes....(They would never lower them self to be a tax payer)

 

 

When people say it's pretty common knowledge, invariably as in this case what follows is inaccurate.Rich Thais do pay taxes but as with rich people everywhere are smart enough to minimize their payment, or more to the point hire accountants who are smart enough to minimize payment.By the way for legally employed Thais, it's quite hard to wriggle out of PAYE.

[The Cyclist]

32 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Wow, hurts to be caught in a screw up, hey? Your words:

 

Could you elucidate please ?
 

What screw up ?

 

33 minutes ago, JimGant said:

You're the one who said assessment officers , not individuals, have to call the shots-- and you're completely wrong. At least you can be man enough to admit your mistake....

 

I wasn't the one that said ' Assessment Officers ' the RD Code says ' Assessment Officers will apply exemptions and deductions ' 

 

As always, you carry out, what you believe that you are required to do.

 

Nike...... Just do it

[Yumthai]

3 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Then surely one should comply with these rules, even if you do not like them.

 

Of course, if you want to be some middle aged to old rebellious, stick it to the man, type person. By all means crack on.

 

What you should not do is try and encourage others to do the same.

I don't encourage anybody to do anything, just re-balance opinions so that everyone can get the full spectrum of information before making what they think, as responsible grown-ups, is right for them.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Yumthai said:

I don't encourage anybody to do anything, just re-balance opinions so that everyone can get the full spectrum of information before making what they think, as responsible grown-ups, is right for them.

For Christs sake I almost agree with that.....I need a lay down.

 

I would only add.....do a quick Gant pen and paper exercise and add up your assessable income for the year to see if it totals more than 59,999 baht because that should help your decision making a lot.

[The Cyclist]

Just now, Yumthai said:

I don't encourage anybody to do anything, just re-balance opinions so that everyone can get the full spectrum of information before making what they think, as responsible grown-ups, is right for them.

 

Sure, your do nothing until caught mantra, might never encourage someone to say sod it, I'll never get caught because according to Yumthai, enforcement and punishment is almost none existant.

 

50 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

do believe that this is what the current rules say, however I do know that it is not enforced.

 

Then you should comply with the rules.

 

And perhaps we should wait until summer 2025 before making any declaration on whether the rules are enforced or not.