Just now, dinsdale said:

Cost cutting can also be used in the context of fraud/corruption where financial gains of said cost cutting goes into people's pockets. Used in a sentence: The contractors/builders engaged in cost cutting specifically for personal financial gain.

well you should have said that in your original post but you did not,  use the correct word 

Just now, MikeandDow said:

well you should have said that in your original post but you did not,  use the correct word 

Go away. You have zero right to tell other people what words to use. 

Just now, dinsdale said:

Go away. You have zero right to tell other people what words to use. 

well if you want to get   negative comments go for it  but i will always correct you !

1 minute ago, MikeandDow said:

well if you want to get   negative comments go for it  but i will always correct you !

Best you have a better grasp of the English language and it's nuances then.

30 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

This is a big can of worms !!  big embarrassment to china !!

Without doubt 
Especially as some of the Steel is now holding up a high speed Railay in Laos
Perfect Example of Chinese Criminality and corruption
but lets not leave our Thai friends out of this as everyone always says you cannot operate a criminal enterprise in another nation without collusion.
Some folk have an appointment in the football stadium  Chinas other national sport making good use of already there facilities.
The steel manufactured in Thailand (Made in Thailand)
Maybe its not just Donalds tariffs that will hit exports soon.

Just now, Serenity_Now said:

Without doubt 
Especially as some of the Steel is now holding up a high speed Railay in Laos
Perfect Example of Chinese Criminality and corruption
but lets not leave our Thai friends out of this as everyone always says you cannot operate a criminal enterprise in another nation without collusion.
Some folk have an appointment in the football stadium  Chinas other national sport making good use of already there facilities.
The steel manufactured in Thailand (Made in Thailand)
Maybe its not just Donalds tariffs that will hit exports soon.

oh agree  in china they shoot people who commit fraud/coruption  in thiland they get away with it

39 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

So the construction company was Chinese. The steel company was Chinese based in Thailand.

When people gonna realize that nothing good comes from the Chinese.

Next, my posts will be removed again because I am overly negative on China.

Even the brand DJI that they sell expensive? Or the cars BYD? If nothing good why now everyone is buying their products? In the past it was Japanese brands. Not anymore.

51 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

So the construction company was Chinese. The steel company was Chinese based in Thailand.

When people gonna realize that nothing good comes from the Chinese.

Next, my posts will be removed again because I am overly negative on China.

IMO you are quite justified in your assessment.  The record speaks for itself.

1 hour ago, Maxbkkcm said:

If nothing good why now everyone is buying their products?

 

Because they are cheap.

And about BYD, let them first prove themselves. Because they have sold cheap nice looking cars for a few years, doesn't mean they are good.

Let's talk again in 4-5 years.

On 4/2/2025 at 1:27 PM, CallumWK said:

 

Because they are cheap.

And about BYD, let them first prove themselves. Because they have sold cheap nice looking cars for a few years, doesn't mean they are good.

Let's talk again in 4-5 years.

And what do you think about the brand DJI? 

On 4/1/2025 at 7:52 PM, worgeordie said:

Maybe they can build railways ,but crap at building high rise .

 

regards worgeordie

Go to Shanghai (and see the "high buildings) and admit your comment is crap.

Over the seven days since the earthquake and collapse, there have been a huge number of comments on AN, the vast majority by people who know little or nothing about construction. Specifically these include suggestions that columns were too slender and not "earthquake proof", and that this was Table Top construction. I assume that Table Top construction is something done in the kitchen, which is where the people who made the comments would be better employed. I think the term they were looking for is Table Form, which is used as formwork for the underside of flat floor slabs, and has been now for many decades. Once the ground floor is cast, the table forms are set up to the required height, the reinforcement and prestressing laid out, and the concrete poured, compacted and levelled. Commonly extra cement is used to gain early strength, such as 28 day strength in 7 days. Once the first floor is stiff enough the prestressing is applied, then the second set of table forms can be set up, and the process repeated. The same with a third set, by which time the first set is no longer required and can be moved to build the fourth floor, and so on to the top.

The prestressing allows thinner slabs and less beams. This reduces the building weight, hence column sizes and foundations, and also reduces floor to ceiling heights. Leaving out beams could reduce that by 300 mm, which would be a 9 m (about 7%) saving in a 30 storey building, with significant savings in vertical construction cost. The prestressed slabs are supported vertically by the columns, at which they are very efficient. They do not take horizontal loads, whether from wind or earthquake. These are taken by the core, which is where the lifts are housed, and has three solid walls, and one wall with strengthened openings for ingress and egress, so very stiff and strong. The floor slabs easily transmit horizontal forces to the core. That is how virtually all high rise buildings work, including the 70 storey condominium in Bangkok for which I designed the foundations.

Then we come to the construction, and there as been inconsistency in the reporting from journalists who do not understand all the details of what they write. From what I have read, the overall Chinese contractor is CREC, and they are extremely large globally. They appear to have a division called CRCC, who in turn have a branch in Thailand. That branch appears to have been in JV with ITD. JVs are separate business entities with their own Boards of Directors and shareholding, so can go bankrupt without either of the main partners becoming bankrupt. I have certainly read that for CRCC Thailand this was their first high rise construction. That should not have mattered too much since ITD have a lot of experience, including their own 42 storey head office bult 30 years ago, and many others.

There was a post on AN earlier of a Google or similar translation of a press release from CRCC which made it clear that the core was to be slip formed. This is a major red flag. Slip forming is a very successful but highly technical process, in which the vertical core is poured in one continuous operation, 24/7, with the form moving very slowly, and long enough that fresh concrete is placed at the top while that coming out at the bottom is strong enough to stand and support the weight from above. For the concrete to be monolithic fresh concrete must always be placed on and vibrated into concrete which is still fluid, so this requires very careful management and control, and therefore substantial experience. It is not something learned from textbooks or in a university course, but by working alongside people who know what they are doing. I do not know if ITD had experience of slip forming, and if this was CRCC's first high rise building they may also not have had experience, which is a very major concern. It was also reported, without details, that the project had been hit by numerous delays. Clearly this raises the risk that these "delays" impacted the 24/7 operation of the slip forming, which cannot be stopped. I am not an expert but I would imagine that, if the process is stopped, the upper layer of concrete will not be at full strength. There is therefore probably a procedure whereby the forms have to be removed, all understrength concrete broken out, bonding agent applied, forms refixed and concreting continued with extra care on vibration at the joint. This would be a lengthy and tedious process, and likely to be cut short if persons are not familiar with slip forming. The result would be a horizontal "dry joint" in the core at each stoppage, which would have significantly reduced shear strength. This would not be apparent during construction, with virtually all loads vertical. However once complete and fully clad, and wind loads would result in high shear forces at the base, and an earthquake would lead to the piled foundations moving with the soil while the inertia of the building tries to resist, also resulting in a large shear force at the base. If there were dry joints then this force would all have to be taken by the steel, which would lead to rupture of the core walls. This would then lead to progressive collapse of the building from the bottom up, and the reason why there is no sign of the core in the rubble heap, even though it should be the strongest element of the building. I have seen the video of a few high level columns rupturing, but as the tower goes down most of the upper floors are seen to be all falling together at the same separation, showing that the main failure is from the bottom.

So that is where I believe any investigation needs to be concentrated, particularly on records of the slip forming, and delays and stoppages, at what levels, and what remedial measures were undertaken?

Meanwhile people are getting excited about steel quality, when that is only part of the issue. No building ever fell down simply because its design didn't meet certain standards, since there are always safety margins. Similarly no building will fall down just because its steel bar is undersized or under strength. Things will fail when their applied stress exceeds the yield strength, so any analysis needs to include the actual loads applied at the time, and not the design loads. That is what forensic analysis does. The video was interesting, but narrated by someone who had no idea what she was reading, and written by someone with limited knowledge. Just one example, ITD was never responsible for the design, but there were many more, and there was no mention of where was the core in the heap of rubble.

55 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Go to Shanghai (and see the "high buildings) and admit your comment is crap.

Did the same China railway company build those ? , you don't know what your talking about,

they obviously cut corners on the Bangkok building , do you agree , 

 

regards Worgeordie 

 

The shares of Thai insurance companies at risk for 25%  coverage in the calllapsed building as expected dropped in price following the news. 

Investors may be worrying too much as its unlikly the Thai insurers will pay out after the corruption and the use of sub standard steel is exposed. 

Insurancr companies look for reasons not to pay even when everthing is legitimate. 

 I hope the families of the deceased get full compensation and the crooked  Chineese and Thai developers   get ziltch

7 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

you don't know what your talking about

Well, but so I'm happy to meet an expert on AN. Thank you for your profund expertise 😂

On 4/2/2025 at 11:35 AM, CallumWK said:

So the construction company was Chinese. The steel company was Chinese based in Thailand.

When people gonna realize that nothing good comes from the Chinese.

Next, my posts will be removed again because I am overly negative on China.

I laugh at you

1 hour ago, worgeordie said:

Did the same China railway company build those ? , you don't know what your talking about,

they obviously cut corners on the Bangkok building , do you agree , 

 

regards Worgeordie 

 

Outside of China they know they won't be shot if found responsible maybe?

At around the 16 minute and 18 second point in the video, I noticed a couple of flashes that looked like explosions. I wonder if anybody is looking into that?

1 hour ago, newbee2022 said:

Well, but so I'm happy to meet an expert on AN. Thank you for your profund expertise 😂

Common sense , try a big dollop of it , just Google about the problems this Chinese Railway Co,

have been having around the World , and thats building railways , nothing vertical ,if you don't

know that means building high......

 

regards worgeordie

5 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

Common sense , try a big dollop of it , just Google about the problems this Chinese Railway Co,

have been having around the World , and thats building railways , nothing vertical ,if you don't

know that means building high......

 

regards worgeordie

I do not use Google anymore by boycotting American stuff.

And it's not my fault that you never been to Shanghai.

 

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

I do not use Google anymore by boycotting American stuff.

 

Then you'll have to stop using the internet because TCP/IP is American stuff.

Just now, newbee2022 said:

I do not use Google anymore by boycotting American stuff.

And it's not my fault that you never been to Shanghai.

 

 

 

 

 

So you can now predict where I have been in the World , I have visited over 90 countries and

yes I have been to Shanghai , What I said to you was Chinese Railway Co , never built those

futuristic buildings , did you not understand that ?  I cannot debate stupid , Bi

 

regards Worgeordie

5 minutes ago, Real Name Hidden said:

 

Then you'll have to stop using the internet because TCP/IP is American stuff.

No, depends on the browser and country

7 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

So you can now predict where I have been in the World , I have visited over 90 countries and

yes I have been to Shanghai , What I said to you was Chinese Railway Co , never built those

futuristic buildings , did you not understand that ?  I cannot debate stupid , Bi

 

regards Worgeordie

Gibberish 🥱

2 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

No, depends on the browser and country

No it doesn't

4 minutes ago, Real Name Hidden said:

No it doesn't

I have still drums and doves

3 hours ago, Dr B said:

No building ever fell down simply because its design didn't meet certain standards

I didn't bother reading through your whole diatribe but scanning through I saw this which is a completely ridiculous statement. It doesn't seem the design was the problem in this case but the construction was substandard. To me it seems like you have no idea what you're talking about but want people to think you do. My guess is you're a CCP troll.

48 minutes ago, BangkokHank said:

At around the 16 minute and 18 second point in the video, I noticed a couple of flashes that looked like explosions. I wonder if anybody is looking into that?

Electrical.

3 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Did the same China railway company build those ? , you don't know what your talking about,

they obviously cut corners on the Bangkok building , do you agree , 

 

regards Worgeordie 

 

You should read the post preceeding yours. That says that it may not have been cost cutting, but incompetence in constructing the core.

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You should read the post preceeding yours. That says that it may not have been cost cutting, but incompetence in constructing the core.

Cheers. Sadly the level of intellect/education from some on this forum is sometimes/often well on display.