22 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

The authorities stopped reporting these inconvenient stats in 2023.

 

Last month, in France, a couple of acquaintances of mine were knocked out and bedridden with Covid for one week. These people have been inoculated at least three times. They are unsalvageable.

 

You really should know better than to rely on anecdote when discussing matters of public health.

 

Last year, my parents – both in their eighties – caught Covid-19. They tested positive, suffered mild cold-like symptoms, and recovered at home. It could have been far worse, but they were vaccinated and boosted.

 

Of course, someone else’s anecdote would read differently: “My parents were vaccinated and still got Covid.” And so, the personal narrative becomes a weapon, used not to illuminate but to obscure.

 

 

The only legitimate way to assess a public health measure is through aggregate data – broad, population-level evidence. Yet the moment such data is presented, the anti-vaxx chorus begins: the numbers are fabricated, the definitions are rigged, the studies manipulated.

 

Even when faced with mountains of evidence, disbelief remains the refuge of the wilfully blind.

 

Ask for new studies, and the pattern repeats. Any fresh, transparent research that doesn’t align with the rhetoric is instantly “debunked” with the same tired conspiracy script.

 

It’s like arguing with someone who insists that π isn’t 3.142 because “the authorities adjusted the figures” – and that, somehow, the circle is still a square if you believe hard enough.

 

18 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

This is why this thread needs to be blocked now. Even with evidence and videos to back up my post people like you Stiddle Mump will deny it and carry on spreading misleading information and spreading your rubbish on here. Why is it humbug or did Small Pox not happen.

Thought you were finished on this thread.

 

Dr Humphries gets to grips with diseases and vaccines. 

 

https://dissolvingillusions.com/

 

Where are you getting your 'evidence' from Sir? MY take is that there are a dozen registered illnesses that can be called 'pox' in one form or another. Difficult to tell them apart (as the CDC www says so). Clean water, rubbish disposal, and improved diets did it.

 

Smallpox was/is not a disease. And IMO, covid didn't even exist. Well, it did in computers, and in people's minds.

 

Nature has the answers.

 

22 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

Even today outbreaks of Small Pox are occuring but thanks to the vaccine it is controlled and not a killer anymore

 

The vaccine works and is essential (safe and effective of course)

however outbreaks still occur  and people still get smallpox but they don't die of it anymore because of the vaccine ?

Perhaps the reason they don't die (if they get it)

is not because of the vaccine  but because of better 'other treatments' ?

 

21 hours ago, transam said:

21 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

Very Wise Words from the TransMan 😁

Indeed, you should take note and get a life, you could have blood on your hands...🤔

 

How many times have I told you my username is "transam", you give out all this anti-vax crap, yet can't remember my username, which is quite worrying.  🤔

 

I can even remember your 'double's' name () on TT, that got removed for writing the same crap as you, with all your other ant-nutter clique, and well spotted by the staff there.........

 

The whole “TransMan” thing is nothing more than a petty attempt to belittle you – a cheap shot from someone utterly unequipped for genuine intellectual sparring. He lacks the wit or the original thought to construct an argument of his own, so he compensates by copying and pasting the same tired drivel from fringe websites. You can spot it instantly – the fonts change, the formatting shifts – he’s a walking, talking repository of anti-vax propaganda.

 

He’s not here to debate ideas or exchange information; his aim is simply to win by any means necessary which is flooding with copied and pasted media. Even the deliberate misspelling of your name is a tactic – juvenile, petty, and painfully revealing.

 

And that, precisely, is why there’s really only one person on these anti-vax threads worth engaging with. The rest aren’t interested in discourse; they simply lack the capacity to formulate a coherent argument, preferring instead to wallow in their echo chamber of borrowed outrage and pseudo-science.

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

It could have been far worse, but they were vaccinated and boosted.

 

There is no way of knowing if they could have been far worse or not

you don't have a time machine do you ???

On 9/26/2025 at 1:25 PM, BritManToo said:

I think taking the vaccine is more likely to kill you than not taking the vaccine.

I managed to miss most vaccines, and never caught any of the diseases they claim to prevent.

 

But I was coerced into taking COVID vaccines x2, and I've caught COVID x2 since taking the vaccine.

So that vaccine clearly works!

 

Your statement belies the reality that you haven't really thought at all... you may have given 'passing consideration' but to suggest you gave this subject real thought is a 'misjustice' to those intellectuals who do actually 'think'....

 

Lets deal with your posts: which is a classic equivalent of saying, “I’ve never worn a seatbelt and I’ve never crashed, therefore seatbelts are useless"....

 

You’re not proof of anything except statistical luck and a spectacular misunderstanding of how probability works. Missing vaccines and staying healthy isn’t evidence of superiority - it’s evidence that the rest of us got vaccinated, which is what kept those diseases from reaching you in the first place - you fail to understand the point of vaccines and herd / societal immunity on a fundamentally basis level.

 

As for catching Covid twice - congratulations, you’ve just proven the vaccine doesn’t make you immortal, it makes you less likely to die or suffer severe illness. The fact you’re still here to complain about it is, ironically, a vaccines success story - arguably you could have been much worse and presenting this argument from a differing perspective. 

 

So yes, the vaccine clearly did work - just not in the way your mental memes picture it in your head... 

7 minutes ago, johng said:

 

The vaccine works and is essential (safe and effective of course)

however outbreaks still occur  and people still get smallpox but they don't die of it anymore because of the vaccine ?

Perhaps the reason they don't die (if they get it)

is not because of the vaccine  but because of better 'other treatments' ?

 

 

The last recorded/known case was in 1977??

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

The whole “TransMan” thing is nothing more than a petty attempt to belittle you

 

And the whole anti-vax  conspiracy theory thing ???

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

And that, precisely, is why there’s really only one person on these anti-vax threads worth engaging with.

Well then Richard buddy. Let's get to it. 

 

Engage if you will. I say vaxxes are a fraud. Let's debate.

3 minutes ago, johng said:

13 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

It could have been far worse, but they were vaccinated and boosted.

 

There is no way of knowing if they could have been far worse or not

you don't have a time machine do you ???

 

Thats very true on an anecdotal level - which is why anecdotes are not useful in these debates.

 

... The  “we can’t know” argument, is pretty much the last refuge of those allergic to evidence. Of course we can’t peer into an alternate universe where you didn’t get vaccinated and compare outcomes side by side - that’s not how science works outside Marvel films.

 

What we do have, however, is the next best thing: millions of real-world data points. Controlled studies, population-level statistics, hospital admission rates, and mortality figures - all showing that vaccinated people got less sick, recovered faster, and died less often.

 

Saying “we can’t know” because we can’t personally experience both realities is like saying, “We can’t prove parachutes save lives because I’ve never jumped without one".... It’s not an argument - it’s an evasion dressed as scepticism.

 

The point isn’t that you might have been fine without the vaccine - it’s that you were far more likely to be fine with it.

 

That’s how risk reduction works...

17 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You’re not proof of anything except statistical luck and a spectacular misunderstanding of how probability works. Missing vaccines and staying healthy isn’t evidence of superiority - it’s evidence that the rest of us got vaccinated, which is what kept those diseases from reaching you in the first place - you fail to understand the point of vaccines and herd / societal immunity on a fundamentally basis level.

That might be true if I had only stayed in the western world, and they hadn't let any immigrants in.

 

But I went all over Africa, and all over the Middle East where hardly anyone had been vaccinated for anything.

Then started mixing intimately with Asians in Philippines, China, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand where none of them were vaccinated for anything at all ........ my wife had ZERO vaccinations before COVID (like nearly everyone else her age).

 

What about Tetanus, that's allegedly hiding in the soil all over the world, booster required every 10 years to keep you safe. But I haven't had a booster for the past 40 years, run around in the jungle, many minor injuries from falls, scratches from my small pets taht dig every day (rabbits), injuries from digging in the garden ......... guess I'm just lucky!

 

The herds I mix with have no immunity through vaccination.

1 minute ago, Stiddle Mump said:

Well then Richard buddy. Let's get to it. 

 

Engage if you will. I say vaxxes are a fraud. Let's debate.

 

No… we’ve danced this one before, and I’ve no intention of dragging myself back into the swamp of your delusional preposterousness.

 

As I said earlier: debating with you is like playing chess with a pigeon - you’ll knock over the pieces, defecate on the board, and then flutter back to your flock declaring victory.

 

And that’s precisely what you’ll do now - claim some hollow triumph, insisting I “can’t debate you” ... when the truth is far simpler: I won’t. I refuse to descend to the level of delusion and intellectual poverty you inhabit.

 

I won’t debate the existence of viruses any more than I’d entertain a months-long argument with someone insisting the Earth is flat.

 

There comes a point where the discussion ceases to be dialogue and becomes little more than an exercise in futility with a self-satisfied fantasist.

On 9/25/2025 at 8:09 AM, Red Phoenix said:

Coming from a 'medical family' where each and every one of my family-members is a doctor, two of them even being world-wide known authorities in their medical speciality and having a completely different take on medicine/health, it is not surprising that the subject always comes up during family gatherings.

I'll bet!

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

That might be true if I had only stayed in the western world, and they hadn't let any immigrants in.

 

But I went all over Africa, and all over the Middle East where hardly anyone had been vaccinated for anything.

Then started mixing intimately with Asians in Philippines, China, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand where none of them were vaccinated for anything at all ........ my wife had ZERO vaccinations before COVID (like nearly everyone her age).

 

Another classic anecdote that highlights the lack of thought you've given this subject: 

 

Ah, the classic “I travelled the world and didn’t get sick, therefore vaccines are pointless” argument - again, its anecdote masquerading as evidence, this time with a passport stamp....

 

You do realise, I hope, that your personal immune roulette doesn’t override decades of epidemiological data? The reason you didn’t encounter rampant outbreaks isn’t because vaccines are useless - it’s because enough people elsewhere got them, keeping global transmission low. That’s how herd immunity works: you benefited from the very system you now dismiss.

 

And as for your globetrotting encounters, congratulations - you’re the biological equivalent of someone who’s been driving drunk for years and bragging about never crashing....   It’s not proof of skill; it’s proof of luck and ignorance working hand in hand.

 

Your wife’s lack of vaccination doesn’t make her an example - it makes her fortunate. The plural of “I’m fine” isn’t “data”.... Science isn’t a scrapbook of personal adventures; it’s the collective evidence of billions of lives, not just one that’s managed to dodge the odds - so far....

11 hours ago, BritManToo said:

my wife had ZERO vaccinations before COVID (like nearly everyone her age).

 

So most Thais don't get a bunch of vaccines as children like in the West?

That's an easily provable fact ... I'll speak to people and ask and ask the local doctors to verify that claim.

Thank you for playing along. 

 

11 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

What we do have, however, is the next best thing: millions of real-world data points. Controlled studies, population-level statistics, hospital admission rates, and mortality figures - all showing that vaccinated people got less sick, recovered faster, and died less often.

 

The Covid situation is getting even more complicated by the fact that RFK Jr. is taking sides with the conspiracy folks. First time ever maybe for an elected official. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

So most Thais don't get a bunch of vaccines as children like in the West?

That's an easily provable fact ... I'll speak to people and ask and ask the local doctors to verify that claim.

Thank you for playing along. 

 

Depends on their age, the over 35s generally had no vaccinations or even access to doctors in rural Thailand.

Thaksin introduced free medical care in 2002, before then the poor didn't have vaccinations.

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

I won’t debate the existence of viruses any more than I’d entertain a months-long argument with someone insisting the Earth is flat.

Thanx for the reply Richard bro.

 

Have to make a distinction between cell and tissue debris. These can be seen under electron microscopy, and called viruses - although they are undisguisable from the other debris - and a virus that can cause illness.

 

I have to hold my hand up and say that the dead entities that can be seen; I can't tell the difference between them and exosomes. But! As I say there is no such thing as a pathogenic virus. And because there is not one. How can something that don't exist cause a disease? By the way Richard; I don't think there are diseases. Illness and sickness' yes. But not diseases. If there are no viruses, and no diseases, what are vaccines for?

 

Nature has the answers we seek.

1 minute ago, Stiddle Mump said:

Thanx for the reply Richard bro.

 

Have to make a distinction between cell and tissue debris. These can be seen under electron microscopy, and called viruses - although they are undisguisable from the other debris - and a virus that can cause illness.

 

I have to hold my hand up and say that the dead entities that can be seen; I can't tell the difference between them and exosomes. But! As I say there is no such thing as a pathogenic virus. And because there is not one. How can something that don't exist cause a disease? By the way Richard; I don't think there are diseases. Illness and sickness' yes. But not diseases. If there are no viruses, and no diseases, what are vaccines for?

 

Nature has the answers we seek.

What a load..................😆

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Depends on their age, the over 35s had no vaccinations or even access to doctors in rural Thailand.

Thaksin introduced free medical care in 2002, before then the poor didn't have vaccinations.

 

Like all anti-vaxxers, you’ve cherry-picked a ‘factoid’ to make it sound effective, but it’s fundamentally flawed because - yes, you guessed it - you didn’t really think it through. You don’t truly know the full facts; you just know a few minor details and use them selectively....

 

Before 2002, most Thai children over 35 today received childhood vaccinations through the Expanded Programme on Immunisation (EPI), run by the Ministry of Public Health.

Vaccines like BCG, DTP, polio, and measles were provided free at district hospitals, rural health centres, and through mobile outreach, often with the help of community health volunteers.

 

Coverage improved steadily through the 1980s and 1990s, but rural and poorer families sometimes faced access challenges, and record-keeping could be inconsistent.

 

Thaksin’s Universal Coverage Scheme in 2002 didn’t create immunisation programmes but greatly expanded and equalised access.

 

By guaranteeing care for all citizens, strengthening district health services, integrating vaccinations into routine primary care, and improving monitoring systems, the UCS ensured virtually every child could receive their full schedule of vaccines. It also allowed the introduction of newer vaccines like Hepatitis B and MMR nationwide, leading to over 95% coverage and effectively closing the gaps between urban and rural areas.

 

 

So... Your claim that before 2002 there were no vaccinations it an outright fabrication - you have now highlighted the extent of your ignorance or that you are quite happy to be intellectually dishonest.

15 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

These guys and gals should have listened to your sage advice: 

 

That's because Covid was never just a conventional "virus".

Covid is part of the "The Great Reset" by the WEF (World Economic Forum). 

If you view it as just a virus, it will never make any sense.

 

Covid is The Great Reset, not a virus in the conventional sense. 

 

Of course you will find hordes of crackpots talking about Schwab being Hitler and Darth Vader, but a RESET isn't necessarily something nefarious. In fact, it seems positive to me in many ways. It claims it's for "a better future". I guess you could assume it's Orwellian Doublespeak if you're super paranoid and cynical. 

 

Instead of going in circles with endless conspiracies, why not get your hands on this book?

 

I know you don't trust any mainstream authorities, but maybe sometimes you should see what they're planning. 

 

I haven't even read it yet myself but I have some vague ideas about what it might be about. 

 

 

 

Just now, transam said:

What a load..................😆

Back to debate mode I see Trans buddy.

 

Why not say why you think as you do?

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Like all anti-vaxxers, you’ve cherry-picked a ‘factoid’ to make it sound effective, but it’s fundamentally flawed because - yes, you guessed it - you didn’t really think it through. You don’t truly know the full facts; you just know a few minor details and use them selectively....

 

Before 2002, most Thai children over 35 today received childhood vaccinations through the Expanded Programme on Immunisation (EPI), run by the Ministry of Public Health.

Vaccines like BCG, DTP, polio, and measles were provided free at district hospitals, rural health centres, and through mobile outreach, often with the help of community health volunteers.

 

Coverage improved steadily through the 1980s and 1990s, but rural and poorer families sometimes faced access challenges, and record-keeping could be inconsistent.

 

Thaksin’s Universal Coverage Scheme in 2002 didn’t create immunisation programmes but greatly expanded and equalised access.

 

By guaranteeing care for all citizens, strengthening district health services, integrating vaccinations into routine primary care, and improving monitoring systems, the UCS ensured virtually every child could receive their full schedule of vaccines. It also allowed the introduction of newer vaccines like Hepatitis B and MMR nationwide, leading to over 95% coverage and effectively closing the gaps between urban and rural areas.

 

 

So... Your claim that before 2002 there were no vaccinations it an outright fabrication - you have now highlighted the extent of your ignorance or that you are quite happy to be intellectually dishonest.

IF you look at my post 'generally' is in it.

11 hours ago, Stiddle Mump said:

Nature has the answers we seek.

 

Ok, good.

So please stop posting. We will go ask "Nature" what it thinks and seek answers there. 

 

4 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

That's because Covid was never just a conventional "virus".

Covid is part of the "The Great Reset" by the WEF (World Economic Forum). 

If you view it as just a virus, it will never make any sense.

 

Covid is The Great Reset, not a virus in the conventional sense. 

 

Of course you will find hordes of crackpots talking about Schwab being Hitler and Darth Vader, but a RESET isn't necessarily something nefarious. In fact, it seems positive to me in many ways. It claims it's for "a better future". I guess you could assume it's Orwellian Doublespeak if you're super paranoid and cynical. 

 

Instead of going in circles with endless conspiracies, why not get your hands on this book?

 

I know you don't trust any mainstream authorities, but maybe sometimes you should see what they're planning. 

 

I haven't even read it yet myself. 

 

 

 

Covid was a military operation, run by the US. Nothing to do with health, or a virus.

 

 

45 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

And there you have it… when confronted with facts, the response becomes a veritable masterclass in delusion - a breathtaking exhibition of wilful stupidity. Their skin seems to blister at the mere whisper of anything resembling mainstream media, as though reality itself were somehow toxic to their fragile convictions.

 

You can’t debate with these people; I’ve tried before. Out of the whole swarm of anti-vaxxers here, perhaps one - one - has managed to engage in anything approaching intellectual discourse without descending into the swamp of lazy memes and pseudo-science lifted from fringe websites that warp the very idea of evidence itself.

 

It’s like trying to reason with flat-earthers. Eventually, you realise there’s simply no point. Within their echo chambers, these self-proclaimed “free-thinkers” congratulate one another for their “independence”, all while spinning in a dizzying carousel of fabrication, delusion, and self-satisfied ignorance - the funnies part, some of the points made are so outlandish the must each think the other is a fringe loon !!!... 

 

Yes, they deserve a voice - that’s the burden of free speech. But what they’re doing isn’t free speech; it’s evangelism masquerading as enlightenment. Fortunately, their little corner of the forum is the only place being relentlessly and nauseatingly drowned by their collective hallucination.

 

assinine long -winded rhetoric  masquerading as enlightenment .    just 7 words needed to describe your modus operandi.    the fact you shot yourself and children up with a proven dangerous concoction which was not proven to be safe... nor effective ... is all that's needed to understand you are the one living in a hallucination.

 

well,  nothing to debate.   you lost, man

9 minutes ago, rumak said:

 

assinine long -winded rhetoric  masquerading as enlightenment .    just 7 words needed to describe your modus operandi.    the fact you shot yourself and children up with a proven dangerous concoction which was not proven to be safe... nor effective ... is all that's needed to understand you are the one living in a hallucination.

 

well,  nothing to debate.   you lost, man

 

Here are your seven words: Predictable, paranoid, baseless, hypocritical, ignorant, ranting, irrelevant....

21 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

Ok, good.

So please stop posting. We will go ask "Nature" what it thinks and seek answers there. 

 

You are nature Sir. Nature is not just an alligator or a flower, it includes you.

 

This is our golden chance. The amount of people that now see through the hoax of the covid nonsense and the pandemic, is now huge. We are the many. They are the few. Can we unite and move towards our meaning; that is intrinsically entwined with nature?

 

Our true destiny is in our own hands. Only with  truth, love, and understanding, that nature is the reason for our very existence, can we fulfill the wonderful opportunity we have. Let's not waste our time here. We must get off our knees and unite. Cast aside apathy and ignorance.

 

Love nature = love oneself.

 

 

11 hours ago, Stiddle Mump said:

Can we unite

 

Sorry, I dont want to join your cult. 

 

14 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

Sorry, I don't want to join your cult. 

 

I'm sorry too Sir.

 

You will forever be outside looking in.