What Should I Grow, Fruit Maybe?

[Kapin]

Hi, this is my first post so excuse me any faux pas.

My wife and I are building a house in Chiang Mai on 5.7 Rai of land about 30 minutes from town. The house faces north to the mountains with a swimming pool planned at the front. The access road is on the Eastern boundary. If everything works out as we plan, we will sit in our living room looking out over the pool to paddy fields and distant mountains. The view is excellent and my primary concern is not to spoil it. However, I don't want a large 4+ Rai lawn or garden between the house and the paddy fields; and I don't want to build at the bottom of the slope.

I would like to grow a mix of different fruit trees or something else edible (non commercially) to give me an interest, by worry that over time the view will be obscured by the trees. The land is sloping but not enough to hide large trees. In the UK I have grown successfully dwarf varieties of fruit trees in my garden and wondered if they are available in Thailand.

We have considered grapes but I have no experience of vines.

Does anyone have any advice or suggestions on what to plant?

Thanks in advance

Kapin

[wileycoyote]

We have a much smaller area,but I believe that some plants are good for insect repellents eg makoot lime,papaya.

What do other readers think ?

Wiley Coyote

[roietjimmy]

Aside from suggestion from wiley coyote, there are varieties of mango that are short and bushy. These I have planted. They are about 2 meters high so doubt they will block the view much. Also, consider mangosteen, starfruit and passion fruit. Good news for you is Chiangmai is great location for almost any fruit. Look around on Google. Lots of info on Thai fruit trees. http://www.fruitlovers.com/fruittreedescriptions.html

If link doesn't work google "fruit trees thailand".

[Rinrada]

Counted a total of 22 diferent types of fruit and veg on my wee bit in Mae-on.last week...everything from Tamerind..mango..longan..grapes (last year ) King Eddies (spuds)carrots,onions,lychees,pinaples ...and thousand of bananas......and now we have a load of Coconut trees on the way up....but takes time...seems almost anything grows in CM...

[Mcnerge]

Hi,

Why not try growing grapes...I know some guys in Suphanburi who are doing that from a real deep orange clay...and the root stock..only needs about 3 weeks in a covered (Shaded shed)..to get used to your climate.

When the vines are at a length that affects your view..eat the grapes...sell the Vines in 2 foot sections as root stock again..good $$$$..then start again from the remaining 2 feet still in the ground.

These were planted in march this year from 2 foot high root stock. see attached photo

What a fantastic view from your patio..eating a big fat steak and a fine wine in your other hand.

Best of luck,

Mcnerge

[Kapin]

Aside from suggestion from wiley coyote, there are varieties of mango that are short and bushy. These I have planted. They are about 2 meters high so doubt they will block the view much. Also, consider mangosteen, starfruit and passion fruit. Good news for you is Chiangmai is great location for almost any fruit. Look around on Google. Lots of info on Thai fruit trees. http://www.fruitlovers.com/fruittreedescriptions.html

If link doesn't work google "fruit trees thailand".

Thanks for the advice. Can you remember the name of the mango tree that grows about two meters? Sounds an ideal option!

[Kapin]

Hi,

Why not try growing grapes...I know some guys in Suphanburi who are doing that from a real deep orange clay...and the root stock..only needs about 3 weeks in a covered (Shaded shed)..to get used to your climate.

When the vines are at a length that affects your view..eat the grapes...sell the Vines in 2 foot sections as root stock again..good $$$$..then start again from the remaining 2 feet still in the ground.

These were planted in march this year from 2 foot high root stock. see attached photo

What a fantastic view from your patio..eating a big fat steak and a fine wine in your other hand.

Best of luck,

Mcnerge

Please tell me more, is the picture of your own vines? As I said, I know very little about the subject. Any info would be welcome, like suitable varieties for Chiang Mai, etc.

[chownah]

The newest thing in lamyai culture is small trees....from what I have read on the internet alot of commercial growers in China are planting the small lam yai trees....they are planted close together and make a hedge like growth....don't know where to get them though....you might go to Maejo University just north of Chiangmai city and ask there about dwarf fruit trees....the people there are really friendly and seem to enjoy sharing their knowledge.

Chownah

[Kapin]

The newest thing in lamyai culture is small trees....from what I have read on the internet alot of commercial growers in China are planting the small lam yai trees....they are planted close together and make a hedge like growth....don't know where to get them though....you might go to Maejo University just north of Chiangmai city and ask there about dwarf fruit trees....the people there are really friendly and seem to enjoy sharing their knowledge.

Chownah

The land used to be a Lamyai garden but the trees were taken out some time ago. Not sure what happened or why the trees were removed. We were told that the owner no longer wanted the trouble of growing Lamyai due to the price and the fact that they lived in Bangkok and it was too much trouble. Over the last few years the land as been planted with Soya beans (I think) by a local farmer under a yearly contract in order to keep the land from getting overgrown.

We intend to go to Maejo University in the next few days to get some soil samples tested; I'll ask their advice then on dwarf trees.

Maejo Uni has a lot of campuses, can you point me to the right one?

Thanks

Kapin

[Pond Life]

Maybe think about Lime & Orange (mandarin style) they can be kept pruned back pretty hard.

[Mcnerge]

Hi again,

Re: Grape growing...it's really not as hard as people think...Your local nursery should be able to tell you what root stock to plant..or why not go and visit a vineyard in your area..if they know you only have 5.5 rai..then you are no threat as competition..and should be more than willing to teach you..they will more than likely have root stock for sale too...all vineyards have.

These photos attached..are the same vines as the first photo...drip hose feed and liquid fertilizer..for 3 mths..they love lots of water for 3 th's then only water once a week..and weeding is important..Check out google.com for more info tips on a newbie at grape farming..lots of info..and heeps of fun.

They grow so so fast....you can see a difference in them every day. Soil quality is not really an issue..these are real hearty vines..and will grow in anything....

happy farming..

Mcnerge

[chownah]

Kapin,

Sorry, I wasn't aware they had many campuses. Where I went (if I can remember correctly) was north from the main downtown part of Chiangmai....north of at least one of the ring roads....maybe north of two ring roads...are there two ring roads north of the main city? I'm from Chiangrai and rarely go to Chiangmai so don't know my way around very well. If I can find a phone number I'll post it here later.

Chownah

Mcnerge,

It looks like your grapes are in a net house....is that necessary? Are these wine grapes or table grapes?

Chownah

Edited October 3, 2007 by chownah

[Mcnerge]

Kapin,

Sorry, I wasn't aware they had many campuses. Where I went (if I can remember correctly) was north from the main downtown part of Chiangmai....north of at least one of the ring roads....maybe north of two ring roads...are there two ring roads north of the main city? I'm from Chiangrai and rarely go to Chiangmai so don't know my way around very well. If I can find a phone number I'll post it here later.

Chownah

Mcnerge,

It looks like your grapes are in a net house....is that necessary? Are these wine grapes or table grapes?

Chownah

Chownah,

The first photo with the guy in the hat is planting "Table Grapes" that have been in the Net house "see photo 2) for 3 weeks..to a-climatise to the area.. Now out side in the sun no cover..strong as a grape vine will ever be.

Now here's one that was taken just 3 weeks ago...same plants.....7 months old. and yes it is necessary to keep them in a net house for 3 weeks..prior to subjecting them to the open strong light..from near birth..just too harsh a thing to do... burning them to death without respect!!!

Mcnerge (Maybe graft some reds next year)....and macka somma veino...!!!!

[Beardog]

Tha Kobe-(pronounced tha as in awkward(silent h) & kob like Kobe prepared steak with a silent E). These trees provide excellent shade -will grow 4-5 meters max & have a wonderful berry sweet & tasty. They grow in the wild & the seeds(inside the fruit can reproduce more trees.They will grow everywhere & can be found on the Thai farming forum under "those red berries-page 3 or 4 now.Your Thai girl or guy can help you find if your looking for them.It is easy for them to converse with other Thais

We just planted 3 -1 small one is having a hard time with the transplant the other 2 one is big are doing great. Lime & Thai lemon would be a winner & in Chaing Mai area Som (Tangerine trees) would also go very good in your area.

Longan pretty quirky to grow & bi annual yield + trees get big.Papaya smells great(the flowers ) & fairly easy to grow.Small coconut trees(stay small somewhat-compared to the long lanky coconut trees) & have soft meat & drinkable milk. Depends at what stage you get them 1-3 years for coconuts.

Lyches get pretty big after many years, but they might be a hit for 1 tree in the right part of your yard.

Bananas a must(if you like bananas) Get the small new plants,they are easy to grow. Pineapple is very nice & easy to grow-although I am not sure if your cold season would effect the growth. they sure look fine in the garden!

Wine Grapes........your on your own. I used to live in Sonoma valley Ca.U.S.A

next to Sebastiani Cohn Cline Gallo Gloria Ferrier & 16 other vineyards & found out it actually takes 4 + years to produce a good wine grape. Most vineyards would sell their (shwag grapes)(not to good ) for Vin rose -Boonsfarm Md20/20(Mogan David)(& other assorted loser blends!

Thanks to Chownah & the rest of the clan, I have learned a great deal about growing trees & vegetables!

Good luck on your adventure. We just got 4&1/2 rai in Bang Sare 20km. outside Pattaya & now have 196 trees + all the fruits mentioned short of Lyche & Som. Good luck! The best part is getting to create the beauty you see & eat the fruits of your labors!

Beardog

Edited October 7, 2007 by Beardog

[Rinrada]

Fruit everywhere....but dont know about this one......

[Kapin]

Hi, this is my first post so excuse me any faux pas.

My wife and I are building a house in Chiang Mai on 5.7 Rai of land about 30 minutes from town. The house faces north to the mountains with a swimming pool planned at the front. The access road is on the Eastern boundary. If everything works out as we plan, we will sit in our living room looking out over the pool to paddy fields and distant mountains. The view is excellent and my primary concern is not to spoil it. However, I don't want a large 4+ Rai lawn or garden between the house and the paddy fields; and I don't want to build at the bottom of the slope.

I would like to grow a mix of different fruit trees or something else edible (non commercially) to give me an interest, by worry that over time the view will be obscured by the trees. The land is sloping but not enough to hide large trees. In the UK I have grown successfully dwarf varieties of fruit trees in my garden and wondered if they are available in Thailand.

We have considered grapes but I have no experience of vines.

Does anyone have any advice or suggestions on what to plant?

Thanks in advance

Kapin

Hi all and thanks to everyone who gave advice. It is very much appreciated.

An update:

I recently received via email the results of a soil analysis test done at Maejo University. I've posted the results below.

pH = 5.6

%OM = 1.64

%N = 0.082

Available -P (ppm) = 9.50

Extractable forms (ppm)

K = 98

Ca = 560

Mg = 92

uS/cm

EC =34

As a reminder, I plan to turn over about 4.5 Rai of our land to the production of fruit and vegetables (for our own consumption) but I want to keep the plants/trees below head height so not to obscure the excellent views.

I'm no expert but I can see for myself that the land would benefit greatly from improving the soil. We would like to do this organically if possible. If the land was in the UK, I would take a trip to one of the many local stables and buy several truck loads of well rotted horse manure mixed with either barley, wheat straw or sometimes sawdust (Bedding) and have it ploughed into the land. However, I don't think the solution will be as easy as that in Thailand, horses not being as common or wheat/barley for that matter.

As I understand it, my options are Chicken, Buffalo, Pig and Elephant manure and I would be very interested on your comments and/or experiences on the benefits/drawbacks of each. What should I mix it with and how long should I leave it before adding it to the soil. Any suggestions on what to use and where to get it would be a great help. Thanks in advance.

On another point...

When I took the sample to the University, we chatted with the technician about what sort of things to grow in the particular area but she advised that once the results available it would be better to talk to one of the professors. We left it at that. As an after thought, I asked about dwarf trees, particularly Longon. We were given a leaflet on creating dwarf Longon trees using quite aggressive pruning methods to make bushy hedge like trees rather than any techniques using dwarf tree rootstock to make the tree smaller, as is common in the UK.

I do plan to return to the University soon for that promised chat with an expert but we are in the UK again at the moment so it will have to wait a while.

Has anyone seen or purchased in Thailand fruit trees from grafted rootstock, giving smaller trees with similar fruit yields to the normal sized tree? Has anyone done it themselves?

Thanks again in advance?

Kapin

[MrSquigle]

Interested to know what your grapes taste like, for table grapes, as we were recently in Khao Yai and tried some local wines at 2 vineyards, both were rather bitter and because of this we did not buy any at all. For the prices they wanted, you can now buy nice wines from anywhere in the world in Bangkok.

I wanted to grow a large grape vine covering a shaded terrace to use as both shade and eating grapes, but if they are tasteless, then i will plant something else instead.

[Lickey]

Rinada, snip off those creeping vines at the base of your papaya plants, dont pull the creepers out, let them die naturally or it will disrurpt the new flowers/buds, also you might want to prune the leaves in the fruit, wind will make the leaves brush against the fruit causing scarring and latex loss, hence a weight and taste loss off the outer fruit, this is a marketing thingy, but for personal use, they look really great,

Cheers, Lickey.

[thaipete]

Hi, this is my first post so excuse me any faux pas.

My wife and I are building a house in Chiang Mai on 5.7 Rai of land about 30 minutes from town. The house faces north to the mountains with a swimming pool planned at the front. The access road is on the Eastern boundary. If everything works out as we plan, we will sit in our living room looking out over the pool to paddy fields and distant mountains. The view is excellent and my primary concern is not to spoil it. However, I don't want a large 4+ Rai lawn or garden between the house and the paddy fields; and I don't want to build at the bottom of the slope.

I would like to grow a mix of different fruit trees or something else edible (non commercially) to give me an interest, by worry that over time the view will be obscured by the trees. The land is sloping but not enough to hide large trees. In the UK I have grown successfully dwarf varieties of fruit trees in my garden and wondered if they are available in Thailand.

I have lived in Thailand a long time and tried many types of farming, soft shelled turtles, shrimp, duck, fish, chickens, dogs. parrots etc. and now rubber.

You do not have a lot of land, fruit will be nice for you to eat but small income nowadays I am now happy with rubber it gives me a weekly cash income but I have 30+Rai

I would think fish or similar could give you a reasonable income

We have considered grapes but I have no experience of vines.

Does anyone have any advice or suggestions on what to plant?

Thanks in advance

Kapin

[Rinrada]

Rinada, snip off those creeping vines at the base of your papaya plants, dont pull the creepers out, let them die naturally or it will disrurpt the new flowers/buds, also you might want to prune the leaves in the fruit, wind will make the leaves brush against the fruit causing scarring and latex loss, hence a weight and taste loss off the outer fruit, this is a marketing thingy, but for personal use, they look really great,

Cheers, Lickey.

Thanks Licky for your most welcome comments and sorry for delayed response......

Got rid of our old gardener on last visit and got a new all round guy who is/will be a real asset to our set up...he can do almost anything a the flick of...etc...

We bought another bit of land 1.5 rai which joins up our 2 existing pieces ...Eagle and Elephant mountain ..but we also now have a river berween them and he is arranging to build a bridge......not as big as the Kwai........ real SAS training ground sort of thing.

Also on last trip I got a couple of tractors in and we dropped the mountain by about 6 feet...in 2 days....great workers ...and mai peng....will definately recco and use them again next year for some new roads i want done....

Only a hobby at the mo..but insisted from day one NO chemicals or weed burning hence the biggest mangos,bananas ,jackfruit,Tamarinds ...about 3 feet long that anyone has ever seen.......local market shoppers have been supprised........

I just tell them that its a bit of gold dust on top..... and help from the mysterious elephant that walks the mountain....... but only I can see it.......they love that.......