PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station

[LaoPo]

... He's not better than T. maybe he is better, coz t. is out and s. is in?

** Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled. cheating coward ! clever and cheating seems to be the same here, but why coward?

*** Sondhi's income skyrocketed as a result of his political activism. Revenues of his media companies increased by no less than 215 million baht (approx $6 million US) a month from the start of his protests to early 2006. are you serious? 6 mio us$ per month increase, he should be a better leader than tax-sin

seriously you should consider to change your 'heroe' from t. to s. you seem to worship money........

Mr. scyriacus:

I didn't write that; it's from Wikipedia which is an open resource kind of media. If you have problems what's written there, please go to Wikipedia and change the facts.

I didn't create the facts.

Mr. Sondhi did and he's as much a cheater and crook like T. whom I never called a heroe or hero.....

Sometimes, especially these days scryiacus, the truth hurts....

Maybe you should read this before giving comment:

Bankruptcy and anti-Democrat period (1997-2001)

Following the Asian Financial Crisis of 1997, Sondhi's satellite and publishing businesses faced a meltdown. His WCS was sold to the CP Group before it was renamed TA Orange and later became True Move. The Manager Group was saddled with THB 20 billion in debt but only THB 4 billion in equity. The Manager Group's holding company alone had liabilities of THB 6 billion. Manager Media had Bt4.7 billion in debt. Sondhi was personally in debt for THB 1.5 billion. Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled.

Sondhi's companies were also investigated for irregular inter-company transactions. IEC guaranteed a THB 1.2 billion baht loan by M group in 1996, but never disclosed this guarantee to the public. M Group later defaulted on the loan, sending IEC into bankruptcy[6]

Auditors of Eastern Printing, Sondhi's SET-listed printing company, noted that its huge losses partially stemmed from lendings to associated companies and the establishment of off-balance accounts to related publishing companies. For example, in its 2000 financial statement, Sondhi-linked companies Asia Inc and FRYE Smith (USA) Co owed Bt59.86 million and Bt125.79 million respectively to Eastern Printing. Likewise, according to its 2000 financial statements, Manager Media lent Bt1.061 billion to related publishers, under guarantee from Sondhi.[7]

The Manager Group furiously attacked the Democrat-led government over its management of the economic crisis during its time in office from late 1997 to 2000. This included scathing attacks on Finance Minister Tharin Nimmanhaeminda for his emergency financing agreements with the IMF and Deputy Prime Minister Sawit Bhodhivihok for his policy of privatizing the state-owned electricity sector.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sondhi_Limtho....281997-2001.29

Nice chap, this Sondhi, isn't he ?

Oh...why a coward? Because he declared HIMSELF bankrupt for a period of 3 years and did not pay back his debts, leaving others in trouble; that's a coward, especially if you have a big mouth over other Thai who cheated and corrupted.

Be a fair man scyriacus and study Sondhi a bit more and you will find out WHAT'S behind the protests of the PAD !!!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE....? My @arse.

POWER TO SONDHI because:

"They (PAD) have now refined their argument to propose rural voters in Thailand are too poorly educated to be allowed to elect a parliament, and that it should be a largely appointed body instead."

Don't let yourself fooled by this man Sondhi, he might turn out worse than T. and Samak....

LaoPo

[animatic]

While Western style democracy in Thailand clearly doesn't work (Thais have been trying since 1932!), neither does Thai style democracy (1932 to the present) succeed in Thailand. What to do...

remember remember the 5th of november. the english are trying since more than 400 years and still have no more than thatcher, blair and brown. can't you britons remember and/or stay a bit more modest? the us are trying since more than 200 years and still have no more than george bush. they also better stay out of discussion about democray in thailand. only the thais can find solutions, if not in parliament or in poor isaan villages, maybe in bkk streets or hkt?

And US officially allows to torture people...that something not even Samak can do.

I never voted for the bastard, tried strongly to see he never even passed the primaries.

Too much money and propaganda behind him.

Karl Rove is a genius at splitting a country to serve his masters interests.

Seems Dr. T. took a few plays from his play book and Machiavelli's too.

[Pierrot]

Jonathan Head of the BBC last week reported that the PAD were sick and tired of so-called 'democratically' elected governments who were time and time again corrupt.

This is surely - from anyone's perspective - an intolerable situation and in this matter I support the PAD whole-heartedly.

A very personal lecture of J.H. But nobody expect good faith from people on PAD side.

Pierrot - JH is the BBC's South-East Asia correspondent. He lives and works in BKK.

Who says he's on the PAD's side?

I've only heard impartial and accurate reporting from this guy so far.

I never said JH was on PAD side. And I completly agree with you regarding his impartial and accurate reporting.

My comment was about your comment ...

[RadioCityMike]

Here is the case for the status quo:

The PAD demonstrators are for the most part, thoughtful and respectful. There is no passion and they are patient. They are a source of irritation, but there is little violence. The damage to tourism and commerce is significant, but can be undone over time.

If there is an unelected government, the demonstrations will be by university students and backed up by the poor that equate democracy with welfare. As we have seen before, student demonstrations tend to be far more aggressive and they are very passionate about their philosophy. Young people are just not as respectful of the estabishment. Throw into the mix angry mobs from poor provinces and it could be really ugly. This mob would also have the extra credibility of international support in that they would be protesting against an unelected government. The damage to tourism and commerce will be much more difficult to repair because the international community is distrustful of unelected governments.

So as you can see, many of us are more concerned about the future then we are of what has happened in the past. It seems very clear that all efforts should be to improve what is in place and not destroy it.

[Johpa]

Jonathan Head of the BBC last week reported that the PAD were sick and tired of so-called 'democratically' elected governments who were time and time again corrupt.

This is surely - from anyone's perspective - an intolerable situation and in this matter I support the PAD whole-heartedly.

May we infer that your prefer tolerable corruption as opposed to intolerable corruption? In my mind, the nominal downfall of Thaksin was that he did not share his spoils sufficiently, a situation deemed to be intolerable by many in Bangkok. And the man most jealous of Thaksin was his long time nemesis Sonthi, who considers Thaksin a, to maintain the metaphor, a spoiler from the outside (Chiang Mai). I am a bit dismayed that so many otherwise intelligent ex-pats believe the PAD propaganda and who believe that the PAD is anything other than a mirror image of their opposition. OK, Samak has taken the country down to an even lower level, a truly abysmal level, but PAD simply wants to bring it back up to the same pathetic low level as before. Whoopee and Chaiyo!

[animatic]

15,000 British holiday makers stranded in the South of Thailand.Some trying to make their main flights attempted to charter Buses to Bangkok.They were violently Blocked by PAD supporters!Despite pleas for allowing these families with children to return home for school start.Plus 5,000 Australian holidaymakers (Source matichon news (matichon.com)

how many were stranded at french or other strikes? And these strikes were only about increase of salaries. If I would be american I would call it collateral damage.

I got caught in literally dozens of 'Greves Français' French Strikes.

Just part of life there. The unions have a bit too much power,

but the people seem to like it that way.

Maybe Sarkozy is backing them down a touch. Not sure.

Plenty of 'les roast bif' got caught not getting back from a long weekend too.

A risk you take for a french escape weekend.

Increase of salaries, no decreases of benefits, an extra 6 months of work

before retirement at an early ageetc. Mostly about the unions not wanting

to lose face or an iota of power in many cases.

But you deal with it.

So Pierrot, who's the Jean Marie LePen of Thailand? Marc Blondel, Vianet?

[Tony Clifton]

... He's not better than T. maybe he is better, coz t. is out and s. is in?

** Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled. cheating coward ! clever and cheating seems to be the same here, but why coward?

*** Sondhi's income skyrocketed as a result of his political activism. Revenues of his media companies increased by no less than 215 million baht (approx $6 million US) a month from the start of his protests to early 2006. are you serious? 6 mio us$ per month increase, he should be a better leader than tax-sin

seriously you should consider to change your 'heroe' from t. to s. you seem to worship money........

His staff is having problems getting paid but are hanging on for what they bellieve in.

Part of this wiki crap has been reviewed by the Baker Bots Thaksin I didn't do it! World Tour and that other firm he hired in Hong Kong.

Of course the first thing they did was to rewrite Thaksin's wiki page.

[sjaak327]

Still I see posters that seem to think this is about ending corruption in Thailand. I guess it's nice to believe in something. Surely the PAD and it's leadership don't want that. They want to get their hands into the cooky jar again, that's all..

i am one of those who believe in something, albeit not in pad. who do you suggest to fight corruption? tax-sin?samak? any better idea than pad?? or do you want toxin to stay in sole possesion of the cooky jar? is that all?

The PAD isn't going to battle corruption, it's a simple as that. Again they want their hands in the cooky jar and take back what Thaksin "stole" from them.

So it would be silly to trust these people to do something about it. And it's the PAD that is responsible for the polictical deadlock that has plagued Thailand since around april 2006.

Time to move on, there have been elections, there is a government, they have to accept the democratic system. But they don't, as they still have a score to settle with Thaksin, who is gone for crying out loud. He is done for. He is not pulling any strings anymore, they let him go, and that's it.

And there's a happy chair with a candy cane in happy land for all who want to believe this.

I don't, I have seen too much, too long, from creditable sources to believe.

What is it you don't believe, the first (PAD not going after corruption) or the second (Thaksin not pulling the strings). Just curious.

I don't have sources to the contrary on the Thaksin claim, but someone who's wife has been convicted, who's assest has been frozen, and who has choosen to go back to the UK, doesn't seem in control to me.

[scyriacus]

at first i thought: "this one may be capable of something, he is sort of a character". now i know better: "he stops at nothing, he is capable of everything". i would put nothing past him. he lost his character and backbone, likely sold it to toxin. what a shame, i don't wanna see his face anymore. he never did anything good since in office. or can anyone tell me, if i missed something? please!

[bulmercke]

... He's not better than T. maybe he is better, coz t. is out and s. is in?

** Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled. cheating coward ! clever and cheating seems to be the same here, but why coward?

*** Sondhi's income skyrocketed as a result of his political activism. Revenues of his media companies increased by no less than 215 million baht (approx $6 million US) a month from the start of his protests to early 2006. are you serious? 6 mio us$ per month increase, he should be a better leader than tax-sin

seriously you should consider to change your 'heroe' from t. to s. you seem to worship money........

Mr. scyriacus:

I didn't write that; it's from Wikipedia which is an open resource kind of media. If you have problems what's written there, please go to Wikipedia and change the facts.

I didn't create the facts.

Mr. Sondhi did and he's as much a cheater and crook like T. whom I never called a heroe or hero.....

Sometimes, especially these days scryiacus, the truth hurts....

Maybe you should read this before giving comment:

Bankruptcy and anti-Democrat period (1997-2001)

Following the Asian Financial Crisis of 1997, Sondhi's satellite and publishing businesses faced a meltdown. His WCS was sold to the CP Group before it was renamed TA Orange and later became True Move. The Manager Group was saddled with THB 20 billion in debt but only THB 4 billion in equity. The Manager Group's holding company alone had liabilities of THB 6 billion. Manager Media had Bt4.7 billion in debt. Sondhi was personally in debt for THB 1.5 billion. Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled.

Sondhi's companies were also investigated for irregular inter-company transactions. IEC guaranteed a THB 1.2 billion baht loan by M group in 1996, but never disclosed this guarantee to the public. M Group later defaulted on the loan, sending IEC into bankruptcy[6]

Auditors of Eastern Printing, Sondhi's SET-listed printing company, noted that its huge losses partially stemmed from lendings to associated companies and the establishment of off-balance accounts to related publishing companies. For example, in its 2000 financial statement, Sondhi-linked companies Asia Inc and FRYE Smith (USA) Co owed Bt59.86 million and Bt125.79 million respectively to Eastern Printing. Likewise, according to its 2000 financial statements, Manager Media lent Bt1.061 billion to related publishers, under guarantee from Sondhi.[7]

The Manager Group furiously attacked the Democrat-led government over its management of the economic crisis during its time in office from late 1997 to 2000. This included scathing attacks on Finance Minister Tharin Nimmanhaeminda for his emergency financing agreements with the IMF and Deputy Prime Minister Sawit Bhodhivihok for his policy of privatizing the state-owned electricity sector.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sondhi_Limtho....281997-2001.29

Nice chap, this Sondhi, isn't he ?

Oh...why a coward? Because he declared HIMSELF bankrupt for a period of 3 years and did not pay back his debts, leaving others in trouble; that's a coward, especially if you have a big mouth over other Thai who cheated and corrupted.

Be a fair man scyriacus and study Sondhi a bit more and you will find out WHAT'S behind the protests of the PAD !!!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE....? My @arse.

POWER TO SONDHI because:

"They (PAD) have now refined their argument to propose rural voters in Thailand are too poorly educated to be allowed to elect a parliament, and that it should be a largely appointed body instead."

Don't let yourself fooled by this man Sondhi, he might turn out worse than T. and Samak....

LaoPo

The PAD's altruistic and highly laudable principles suggest in future that Thai governments should be uncorruptable and should only comprise decent and honest persons who have - at heart - the very best interests of the whole of the Thai populace -

At the moment - this government - like it's predecessors - is filled with greedy - self-serving - and arrogant individuals who - in the main - only care about the enrichment of themselves and their family members -

Come what may - the PAD will prevail next week..........

[HelterSkelter]

Interesting point h90

The 'coup installed junta government',

USUALLY buzzwords for corrup violent and extraordinarily repressive,

was basically orderly and pretty much like curmugeonly grandfathers.

The griped about morals of the children and made vague attemps

to regulate societal mores, to little effect. They were actually if anything

to light handed considering how the election turned out.

They did get a consitution that is strick enough to need PPP

making a serious attempt at an end run.

They certainly DID try to repress the TRT / PPP propaganda machine,

with apparently little success. And it seems the country is paying the

price now for that lack of success.

No Anand's gov. wasn't perfect, but yes, the before and after must really be confusing

some of the Thais, and might go a long way to their being less bothered about

another army take over vs the corruption in their face.

Just some thughts on the matter.

Interesting thoughts, indeed. While Western style democracy in Thailand clearly doesn't work (Thais have been trying since 1932!), neither does Thai style democracy (1932 to the present) succeed in Thailand. What to do...

But the bottom line is that a democratic system of government would be far better for the country economically and socially than a feudal system which makes virtual slaves of the poor masses and brings great wealth and power to the minority elite class.

Well, given that the elected government under Thaksin was one of the most corrupt in recent history, is there really a difference between those elected and those assuming power under the old feudal system? Certainly democratic elections look better, but at the end of the day is the result any different?

Strange anology!Corrupt? only speculative thus far and, as yet Unproven in any Legit court anywhere!

It is simply Uttered by The Opposing powers! Thaksin put Thailand into second world status.And OFF the Third world poverty Lists.Most Thais enjoy a Living standard near if not equal to many first world developed nations.So .......

And of course We would simply have to look at the "Applied" accusation of corruption in Neighboring Burma!Their Leaders ARE corrupt.The state of the General populus is proof enough.

Saying that ANY political entity as a whole (Even Reformed) is "Corrupt", is as ludicrous as saying ALL Farang are Peodophiles!

There are Many! But by far only a small Minority.And of course NOT representitive of the Group as a whole!

The "Corruption" Propaganda is always pulled out when an opposing power base wants to gain sympathy in a bid to take over!Read History! Hitler (The Result,The Crystal Nacht),Stalin and Lennin,and of coarse Ole Chairman Mao(The peoples Revolution) or the unforgetable Pol Pot! That's just the famous ones! More recently in Europe and even in some from the Good Ole USA(Obama) at current.

Some are genuine some are false grounded.

Important that People Decide and the Minority who lost, Work hard and try again Next Election to prove their worth to the People!Walk The Walk and Talk the Talk!The Laws and the Judiciary MUST be so formed and written as to weed out The Corrupt politicians!(Thailand IS TRYING to Get That Together but "The Mob" Does'nt want that! Just as the Mobsters in the USA at the Beggining of the Depression! And How did they Fight Democracy's Development?Blackmail,Social Disobedience,False accusation, illicit business and BIG MONEY!)

I'm SURE Your nation of Origin has many corrupt polititians!? And I would gather that a Minority of Thugs are'nt able to Cause widespread social Terror and Blackmail there? Or?

Eh?

Sorry WILL Correct, "Many Thais"?

[TexasRanger]

Just heard on the news they will cut off the water.

[pumpuiman]

... He's not better than T. maybe he is better, coz t. is out and s. is in?

** Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled. cheating coward ! clever and cheating seems to be the same here, but why coward?

*** Sondhi's income skyrocketed as a result of his political activism. Revenues of his media companies increased by no less than 215 million baht (approx $6 million US) a month from the start of his protests to early 2006. are you serious? 6 mio us$ per month increase, he should be a better leader than tax-sin

seriously you should consider to change your 'heroe' from t. to s. you seem to worship money........

Mr. scyriacus:

I didn't write that; it's from Wikipedia which is an open resource kind of media. If you have problems what's written there, please go to Wikipedia and change the facts.

I didn't create the facts.

Mr. Sondhi did and he's as much a cheater and crook like T. whom I never called a heroe or hero.....

Sometimes, especially these days scryiacus, the truth hurts....

Maybe you should read this before giving comment:

Bankruptcy and anti-Democrat period (1997-2001)

Following the Asian Financial Crisis of 1997, Sondhi's satellite and publishing businesses faced a meltdown. His WCS was sold to the CP Group before it was renamed TA Orange and later became True Move. The Manager Group was saddled with THB 20 billion in debt but only THB 4 billion in equity. The Manager Group's holding company alone had liabilities of THB 6 billion. Manager Media had Bt4.7 billion in debt. Sondhi was personally in debt for THB 1.5 billion. Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled.

Sondhi's companies were also investigated for irregular inter-company transactions. IEC guaranteed a THB 1.2 billion baht loan by M group in 1996, but never disclosed this guarantee to the public. M Group later defaulted on the loan, sending IEC into bankruptcy[6]

Auditors of Eastern Printing, Sondhi's SET-listed printing company, noted that its huge losses partially stemmed from lendings to associated companies and the establishment of off-balance accounts to related publishing companies. For example, in its 2000 financial statement, Sondhi-linked companies Asia Inc and FRYE Smith (USA) Co owed Bt59.86 million and Bt125.79 million respectively to Eastern Printing. Likewise, according to its 2000 financial statements, Manager Media lent Bt1.061 billion to related publishers, under guarantee from Sondhi.[7]

The Manager Group furiously attacked the Democrat-led government over its management of the economic crisis during its time in office from late 1997 to 2000. This included scathing attacks on Finance Minister Tharin Nimmanhaeminda for his emergency financing agreements with the IMF and Deputy Prime Minister Sawit Bhodhivihok for his policy of privatizing the state-owned electricity sector.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sondhi_Limtho....281997-2001.29

Nice chap, this Sondhi, isn't he ?

Oh...why a coward? Because he declared HIMSELF bankrupt for a period of 3 years and did not pay back his debts, leaving others in trouble; that's a coward, especially if you have a big mouth over other Thai who cheated and corrupted.

Be a fair man scyriacus and study Sondhi a bit more and you will find out WHAT'S behind the protests of the PAD !!!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE....? My @arse.

POWER TO SONDHI because:

"They (PAD) have now refined their argument to propose rural voters in Thailand are too poorly educated to be allowed to elect a parliament, and that it should be a largely appointed body instead."

Don't let yourself fooled by this man Sondhi, he might turn out worse than T. and Samak....

LaoPo

A concise and informative post that will be ignored by the supporters of the mob that has,without question, blatantly broken the law by shutting down airports, raiding a television station, tearing down barricades and attacking a police station as well as countless other infractions that are far removed from what is defined as peaceful assembly.

[animatic]

... He's not better than T. maybe he is better, coz t. is out and s. is in?

** Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled. cheating coward ! clever and cheating seems to be the same here, but why coward?

*** Sondhi's income skyrocketed as a result of his political activism. Revenues of his media companies increased by no less than 215 million baht (approx $6 million US) a month from the start of his protests to early 2006. are you serious? 6 mio us$ per month increase, he should be a better leader than tax-sin

seriously you should consider to change your 'heroe' from t. to s. you seem to worship money........

Mr. scyriacus:

I didn't write that; it's from Wikipedia which is an open resource kind of media. If you have problems what's written there, please go to Wikipedia and change the facts.

I didn't create the facts.

Mr. Sondhi did and he's as much a cheater and crook like T. whom I never called a heroe or hero.....

Sometimes, especially these days scryiacus, the truth hurts....

Maybe you should read this before giving comment:

Bankruptcy and anti-Democrat period (1997-2001)

Following the Asian Financial Crisis of 1997, Sondhi's satellite and publishing businesses faced a meltdown. His WCS was sold to the CP Group before it was renamed TA Orange and later became True Move. The Manager Group was saddled with THB 20 billion in debt but only THB 4 billion in equity. The Manager Group's holding company alone had liabilities of THB 6 billion. Manager Media had Bt4.7 billion in debt. Sondhi was personally in debt for THB 1.5 billion. Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled.

Sondhi's companies were also investigated for irregular inter-company transactions. IEC guaranteed a THB 1.2 billion baht loan by M group in 1996, but never disclosed this guarantee to the public. M Group later defaulted on the loan, sending IEC into bankruptcy[6]

Auditors of Eastern Printing, Sondhi's SET-listed printing company, noted that its huge losses partially stemmed from lendings to associated companies and the establishment of off-balance accounts to related publishing companies. For example, in its 2000 financial statement, Sondhi-linked companies Asia Inc and FRYE Smith (USA) Co owed Bt59.86 million and Bt125.79 million respectively to Eastern Printing. Likewise, according to its 2000 financial statements, Manager Media lent Bt1.061 billion to related publishers, under guarantee from Sondhi.[7]

The Manager Group furiously attacked the Democrat-led government over its management of the economic crisis during its time in office from late 1997 to 2000. This included scathing attacks on Finance Minister Tharin Nimmanhaeminda for his emergency financing agreements with the IMF and Deputy Prime Minister Sawit Bhodhivihok for his policy of privatizing the state-owned electricity sector.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sondhi_Limtho....281997-2001.29

Nice chap, this Sondhi, isn't he ?

Oh...why a coward? Because he declared HIMSELF bankrupt for a period of 3 years and did not pay back his debts, leaving others in trouble; that's a coward, especially if you have a big mouth over other Thai who cheated and corrupted.

Be a fair man scyriacus and study Sondhi a bit more and you will find out WHAT'S behind the protests of the PAD !!!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE....? My @arse.

POWER TO SONDHI because:

"They (PAD) have now refined their argument to propose rural voters in Thailand are too poorly educated to be allowed to elect a parliament, and that it should be a largely appointed body instead."

Don't let yourself fooled by this man Sondhi, he might turn out worse than T. and Samak....

LaoPo

Hello satalite and telcom businesses....

Surely you can see that Thaksin saw this guy as competition

and pulled his plug for Thaksin's own profit line...

He screwed about anybody in that business he could that was competition,

He screwed farang partners that upgraded him because... HE COULD.

Why would Sondhi's competition get a sweeter deal?

It's glaringly right there.

[animatic]

Still I see posters that seem to think this is about ending corruption in Thailand. I guess it's nice to believe in something. Surely the PAD and it's leadership don't want that. They want to get their hands into the cooky jar again, that's all..

i am one of those who believe in something, albeit not in pad. who do you suggest to fight corruption? tax-sin?samak? any better idea than pad?? or do you want toxin to stay in sole possesion of the cooky jar? is that all?

The PAD isn't going to battle corruption, it's a simple as that. Again they want their hands in the cooky jar and take back what Thaksin "stole" from them.

So it would be silly to trust these people to do something about it. And it's the PAD that is responsible for the polictical deadlock that has plagued Thailand since around april 2006.

Time to move on, there have been elections, there is a government, they have to accept the democratic system. But they don't, as they still have a score to settle with Thaksin, who is gone for crying out loud. He is done for. He is not pulling any strings anymore, they let him go, and that's it.

And there's a happy chair with a candy cane in happy land for all who want to believe this.

I don't, I have seen too much, too long, from creditable sources to believe.

What is it you don't believe, the first (PAD not going after corruption) or the second (Thaksin not pulling the strings). Just curious.

I don't have sources to the contrary on the Thaksin claim, but someone who's wife has been convicted, who's assest has been frozen, and who has choosen to go back to the UK, doesn't seem in control to me.

Big money knows no borders, you should know that by now.

Why else could Mataher Mohammed use George Soro's as a

figurative personal whipping boy for decades so he could say that

his money caused '97 the melt down and thus keep in power.

Blame the non muslim farang.

Why and How, because at such high levels of cash borders evaporate.

[Thai at Heart]

... He's not better than T. maybe he is better, coz t. is out and s. is in?

** Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled. cheating coward ! clever and cheating seems to be the same here, but why coward?

*** Sondhi's income skyrocketed as a result of his political activism. Revenues of his media companies increased by no less than 215 million baht (approx $6 million US) a month from the start of his protests to early 2006. are you serious? 6 mio us$ per month increase, he should be a better leader than tax-sin

seriously you should consider to change your 'heroe' from t. to s. you seem to worship money........

His staff is having problems getting paid but are hanging on for what they bellieve in.

Part of this wiki crap has been reviewed by the Baker Bots Thaksin I didn't do it! World Tour and that other firm he hired in Hong Kong.

Of course the first thing they did was to rewrite Thaksin's wiki page.

These stories have been in the public domain for donkeys years, and have been printed and referenced from books and substantial publications such as Time and the Economist. The quotes about his opinions on voting rights for the less educated are available from CNN and the BBC. Being quotes in English language media, they aren't widely available in the Thai press.

It is all in the public domain so if fair for debate. It begs the most obvious question as to why was Sondhi so pro Thaksin at the beginning. I would believe a promise was made, and when the Sondhi didn't get all his debt forgiven by his creditors under a probably agreed deal, he turned with a vengeance on Thaksin.

Obviously hel_l hath no fury as a bankrupt businessman who wants his place back at the top table.

[scyriacus]

... With the powerful elite ruling class pushing for an extension of the old feudal system and the majority poor peasant class pushing for a more equatable democratic system. Throw an entrenched cultural system of corruption into that conflict and you have a very confusing mix. The democratic system has been badly corrupted for sure by those elite class who used it to gain power. But the bottom line is that a democratic system of government would be far better for the country economically and socially than a feudal system which makes virtual slaves of the poor masses and brings great wealth and power to the minority elite class. The current impasse is but a blip in Thailand's progression towards democracy. They will get there eventually, but first they have to rein in the rampant corruption which is part of the culture and very much a part of the old feudal system embraced by the minority elite ruling class who would like to turn back the clock....

i highlighted your two most important arguments: corrupted by the elite to bring great wealth for the elite. i just missed the names to put on these allegations: doesn't it perfectly fit puppetmaster tax-sin (or toxin, always forget his real name, sorry) and his string puppet samak..........

[Insight]

Jonathan Head of the BBC last week reported that the PAD were sick and tired of so-called 'democratically' elected governments who were time and time again corrupt.

This is surely - from anyone's perspective - an intolerable situation and in this matter I support the PAD whole-heartedly.

A very personal lecture of J.H. But nobody expect good faith from people on PAD side.

Pierrot - JH is the BBC's South-East Asia correspondent. He lives and works in BKK.

Who says he's on the PAD's side?

I've only heard impartial and accurate reporting from this guy so far.

If anything I'd say that he tends to side with the government. Just slightly though.

Same here. At the start of the week he described support for the PAD as falling, but then changed towards the end of the week to "It has a passionate following in various parts of the country".

[scyriacus]

Why not have a PAD faction to switch. you only suggest a leftist solution.

could you explain how you see PAD to be leftist?

Sir, If you don't know what side of the political spectrum that PAD lies at, I ask you why the heck are you commenting on in a political debate?

sir mogoso, pad was called leftist by the rightists and rightist by the leftists. ok, we know. but sorry sir mogoso, i missed your argument, where is it?

[LaoPo]

... He's not better than T. maybe he is better, coz t. is out and s. is in?

** Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled. cheating coward ! clever and cheating seems to be the same here, but why coward?

*** Sondhi's income skyrocketed as a result of his political activism. Revenues of his media companies increased by no less than 215 million baht (approx $6 million US) a month from the start of his protests to early 2006. are you serious? 6 mio us$ per month increase, he should be a better leader than tax-sin

seriously you should consider to change your 'heroe' from t. to s. you seem to worship money........

His staff is having problems getting paid but are hanging on for what they bellieve in.

Part of this wiki crap has been reviewed by the Baker Bots Thaksin I didn't do it! World Tour and that other firm he hired in Hong Kong.

Of course the first thing they did was to rewrite Thaksin's wiki page.

Tony: Wikipedia is an open source, so why don't you rewrite it if it's not true ?

If T.'s staff can do it, you can, can't you ?

It's so easy Tony to shout now that this Wikipedia ''crap'' has been reviewed; why don't you come with FACTS that this crap is non-factual ?

And, BBC's comments are also untrue and non-factual ?

"They (PAD - Sondi etc.) have now refined their argument to propose rural voters in Thailand are too poorly educated to be allowed to elect a parliament, and that it should be a largely appointed body instead."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7584369.stm

It's too easy Tony what you claim, too easy.

LaoPo

[scyriacus]

....The party I was talking about has been in bed with PAD since the begining. Including the April 06 election boycott.

sorry sir 'ubon joe' are you in bed with pad since you pretend to know what's going on in their bed? please explain! what for devils sake are you talking about?

[bulmercke]

Jonathan Head of the BBC last week reported that the PAD were sick and tired of so-called 'democratically' elected governments who were time and time again corrupt.

This is surely - from anyone's perspective - an intolerable situation and in this matter I support the PAD whole-heartedly.

May we infer that your prefer tolerable corruption as opposed to intolerable corruption? In my mind, the nominal downfall of Thaksin was that he did not share his spoils sufficiently, a situation deemed to be intolerable by many in Bangkok. And the man most jealous of Thaksin was his long time nemesis Sonthi, who considers Thaksin a, to maintain the metaphor, a spoiler from the outside (Chiang Mai). I am a bit dismayed that so many otherwise intelligent ex-pats believe the PAD propaganda and who believe that the PAD is anything other than a mirror image of their opposition. OK, Samak has taken the country down to an even lower level, a truly abysmal level, but PAD simply wants to bring it back up to the same pathetic low level as before. Whoopee and Chaiyo!

What does this mean?

All the PAD have been doing - from their first meetings at Thamasat University and Lumpini Park - two/three years ago - to today - is to expose unashamed and unbridled government corruption.

In short - they want change - and radical change - a quiet revolution is now in place -

The days of these greedy bastxxxx (MPs) helping themselves routinely to the country's spoils will soon be finished - even - if at the moment - that seems an impossible scenario!

Does anyone honestly believe that dinosaurs like Samak or Thaksin would be given any reign whatsoever in 2010?

[sjaak327]

Only the stuff that is put forward by the PAD seems to have value, other scources (like the BBC or Wikipedia) all have either been manipulated by Thaksin's supporters or are too far removed from the Thai society to actually know what they are talking about. hel_l some people even claim that this forum (and others) are full of posters that receive money out of the Thaksin camp to right negatively about PAD.

Surely nobody believes the above BS, I for sure don't.

[h90]

Why not have a PAD faction to switch. you only suggest a leftist solution.

could you explain how you see PAD to be leftist?

Sir, If you don't know what side of the political spectrum that PAD lies at, I ask you why the heck are you commenting on in a political debate?

sir mogoso, pad was called leftist by the rightists and rightist by the leftists. ok, we know. but sorry sir mogoso, i missed your argument, where is it?

Well there are former communist fighters at the PAD, there are former paramilitars which have fighted against the communists at the PAD. There are some nationalists at PAD, some liberal, some monarchists. So some ill-intended can call them lefties as there are some there, or can call them right-wing as there are some there. There is every part of the society right/left/poor/rich/educated/uneducated/farmer/fisher/businesspeople

[Thai at Heart]

Jonathan Head of the BBC last week reported that the PAD were sick and tired of so-called 'democratically' elected governments who were time and time again corrupt.

This is surely - from anyone's perspective - an intolerable situation and in this matter I support the PAD whole-heartedly.

May we infer that your prefer tolerable corruption as opposed to intolerable corruption? In my mind, the nominal downfall of Thaksin was that he did not share his spoils sufficiently, a situation deemed to be intolerable by many in Bangkok. And the man most jealous of Thaksin was his long time nemesis Sonthi, who considers Thaksin a, to maintain the metaphor, a spoiler from the outside (Chiang Mai). I am a bit dismayed that so many otherwise intelligent ex-pats believe the PAD propaganda and who believe that the PAD is anything other than a mirror image of their opposition. OK, Samak has taken the country down to an even lower level, a truly abysmal level, but PAD simply wants to bring it back up to the same pathetic low level as before. Whoopee and Chaiyo!

What does this mean?

All the PAD have been doing - from their first meetings at Thamasat University and Lumpini Park - two/three years ago - to today - is to expose unashamed and unbridled government corruption.

In short - they want change - and radical change - a quiet revolution is now in place -

The days of these greedy bastxxxx (MPs) helping themselves routinely to the country's spoils will soon be finished - even - if at the moment - that seems an impossible scenario!

Does anyone honestly believe that dinosaurs like Samak or Thaksin would be given any reign whatsoever in 2010?

If all they would stick to is exposing unashamed exposure of corruption, most would have no problem. Overthrowing elected governements because they sit 60,000 in the parkand get hold a microphone is a little bit beyond "all they have been up to." Where were these lovely caring people when the military was building golf courses all over the country and plundering Siam Military bank. How did TPIPL end up owing billions of unsecured USD? How did Manager Group get the financing it did? All dodgy business, and this is a play to put them all back at the top table.

The list is endless

Where were the PAD as corporate borrowers bankrupted the country while they sipped on 10,000 USD bottles of Chateaux neuf du Pape in Pattaya. I don't like PPP, and hate corruption, but if it is allowed to be seen that PAD can overthrow a government, PPP will probably drive 100,000 farmers with pitch forks down to Bangkok in 2 weeks time and then god help us all.

[scyriacus]

I'm evacuating my family out of Thailand next week to join me overseas.

...btw, how's the "evacuation" coming along? Tomorrow is it that the family leave Thailand?

oh yes please, we are all looking forward. keep us informed, if you need any help. i would give all my excess money to see you and your likes in safety. thailand can only be recommended to you with severe twinges of remorse.......

[scyriacus]

I expect you have something facetious or condescending to say with which to send them off !

yes, i have:

[bulmercke]

Jonathan Head of the BBC last week reported that the PAD were sick and tired of so-called 'democratically' elected governments who were time and time again corrupt.

This is surely - from anyone's perspective - an intolerable situation and in this matter I support the PAD whole-heartedly.

May we infer that your prefer tolerable corruption as opposed to intolerable corruption? In my mind, the nominal downfall of Thaksin was that he did not share his spoils sufficiently, a situation deemed to be intolerable by many in Bangkok. And the man most jealous of Thaksin was his long time nemesis Sonthi, who considers Thaksin a, to maintain the metaphor, a spoiler from the outside (Chiang Mai). I am a bit dismayed that so many otherwise intelligent ex-pats believe the PAD propaganda and who believe that the PAD is anything other than a mirror image of their opposition. OK, Samak has taken the country down to an even lower level, a truly abysmal level, but PAD simply wants to bring it back up to the same pathetic low level as before. Whoopee and Chaiyo!

What does this mean?

All the PAD have been doing - from their first meetings at Thamasat University and Lumpini Park - two/three years ago - to today - is to expose unashamed and unbridled government corruption.

In short - they want change - and radical change - a quiet revolution is now in place -

The days of these greedy bastxxxx (MPs) helping themselves routinely to the country's spoils will soon be finished - even - if at the moment - that seems an impossible scenario!

Does anyone honestly believe that dinosaurs like Samak or Thaksin would be given any reign whatsoever in 2010?

If all they would stick to is exposing unashamed exposure of corruption, most would have no problem. Overthrowing elected governements because they sit 60,000 in the parkand get hold a microphone is a little bit beyond "all they have been up to." Where were these lovely caring people when the military was building golf courses all over the country and plundering Siam Military bank. How did TPIPL end up owing billions of unsecured USD? How did Manager Group get the financing it did? All dodgy business, and this is a play to put them all back at the top table.

The list is endless

Where were the PAD as corporate borrowers bankrupted the country while they sipped on 10,000 USD bottles of Chateaux neuf du Pape in Pattaya. I don't like PPP, and hate corruption, but if it is allowed to be seen that PAD can overthrow a government, PPP will probably drive 100,000 farmers with pitch forks down to Bangkok in 2 weeks time and then god help us all.

I get your point Thai at Heart - corruption is endemic in Thailand - however the PAD has only been around as a serious force in Thai politics for a couple of years - and it's influence is growing all the time -

You detail obvious obuses of power in your post that wil hopefully be a thing of the past in a post-Samak/PPP world!

[geriatrickid]

Here is the case for the status quo:

A. The PAD demonstrators are for the most part, thoughtful and respectful. There is no passion and they are patient. They are a source of irritation, but there is little violence. The damage to tourism and commerce is significant, but can be undone over time.

B. If there is an unelected government, ....... The damage to tourism and commerce will be much more difficult to repair because the international community is distrustful of unelected governments.

A. I see your point, but think it will be worse than described. The disruption of vital components of the tourist industry is anything but thoughtful and respectful. As stated by others, it's cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. How much time do you think it will require? A year or or more? Can Thailand afford such a drop in such a vital FX source? All of those stranded tourists, will not be likely to return and they will tell their friends. Ripple effect. Thailand is counting on asian tourists to replace the drop in westerners. Do you think the Japanese, South Korean and Taiwanese visitors relish the prospect of such adventures? These are the 3 groups that are 1st to cancel if there is any sign of unrest. One need only look at what happened after the Bangkok bombings. I think it's worse than you do.

B. Agreed, and with the potential for travel advisory from national governments not to go. As soon as those alerts go up, most of the big travel groups will be obliged to cease tours and travel. It will cost them a bundle, especially with high season just around the corner. If it happens, the travel industry will abandon Thailand. Obviously there would still be leisuretravel, but when you lose 10-25% of visitors, it's a kick in the economic nuts.

I wonder if people on both sides of the argument understand the economic damage that is being caused both in the short term and long term?

[RadioCityMike]

Jonathan Head of the BBC last week reported that the PAD were sick and tired of so-called 'democratically' elected governments who were time and time again corrupt.

This is surely - from anyone's perspective - an intolerable situation and in this matter I support the PAD whole-heartedly.

May we infer that your prefer tolerable corruption as opposed to intolerable corruption? In my mind, the nominal downfall of Thaksin was that he did not share his spoils sufficiently, a situation deemed to be intolerable by many in Bangkok. And the man most jealous of Thaksin was his long time nemesis Sonthi, who considers Thaksin a, to maintain the metaphor, a spoiler from the outside (Chiang Mai). I am a bit dismayed that so many otherwise intelligent ex-pats believe the PAD propaganda and who believe that the PAD is anything other than a mirror image of their opposition. OK, Samak has taken the country down to an even lower level, a truly abysmal level, but PAD simply wants to bring it back up to the same pathetic low level as before. Whoopee and Chaiyo!

What does this mean?

All the PAD have been doing - from their first meetings at Thamasat University and Lumpini Park - two/three years ago - to today - is to expose unashamed and unbridled government corruption.

In short - they want change - and radical change - a quiet revolution is now in place -

The days of these greedy bastxxxx (MPs) helping themselves routinely to the country's spoils will soon be finished - even - if at the moment - that seems an impossible scenario!

Does anyone honestly believe that dinosaurs like Samak or Thaksin would be given any reign whatsoever in 2010?

If all they would stick to is exposing unashamed exposure of corruption, most would have no problem. Overthrowing elected governements because they sit 60,000 in the parkand get hold a microphone is a little bit beyond "all they have been up to." Where were these lovely caring people when the military was building golf courses all over the country and plundering Siam Military bank. How did TPIPL end up owing billions of unsecured USD? How did Manager Group get the financing it did? All dodgy business, and this is a play to put them all back at the top table.

The list is endless

Where were the PAD as corporate borrowers bankrupted the country while they sipped on 10,000 USD bottles of Chateaux neuf du Pape in Pattaya. I don't like PPP, and hate corruption, but if it is allowed to be seen that PAD can overthrow a government, PPP will probably drive 100,000 farmers with pitch forks down to Bangkok in 2 weeks time and then god help us all.

I get your point Thai at Heart - corruption is endemic in Thailand - however the PAD has only been around as a serious force in Thai politics for a couple of years - and it's influence is growing all the time -

You detail obvious obuses of power in your post that wil hopefully be a thing of the past in a post-Samak/PPP world!

I think the fear is that it will be illegal to talk about it or protest it in a post-Samak/PPP world.