Bio Diesel

[lalatal]

Any one here DIY bio diesel ?

must be ton's of waste cooking oil in Thailand.

what do the food vendors do with all the waste oil?

[nakhonsi sean]

what do the food vendors do with all the waste oil?

They sell it to people making bio-diesel!

[garyh]

If you boil the water out and filter it properly you mix the oil 50/50 with diesel and put it straight in your tank. This works fine in a warm climate, saves the cost and mucking around to convert it. Also there kits to run on straight waste vegtable oil, this requires running on normal diesel till the engine is warm then switching to waste oil and switching back before shutting off the engine long enough to get the injection pump and injectors clear of vegtable oil. However I would not like to try it on late model deisels with electronic injection without a different progrom chip.

[BSJ]

Hi Gary, it is do-able for sure, but take the time to research it good to avoid a major drama. If you can't get a new chip maybe there is a piggy back chip available. There is a book available, but I haven't read it. Straight waste vege oil??? Mmm, that's interesting!

"How to operate your diesel vehicle on Straight Waste Vegetable Oil" AU$20 if delivered by email as a pdf

[email protected]

3 Waratah Avenue

Belgrave Vic 3160

Australia

Edited November 10, 2008 by BSJ

[madjbs]

Any one here DIY bio diesel ?

must be ton's of waste cooking oil in Thailand.

what do the food vendors do with all the waste oil?

Most vendors use the same oil for weeks on end.

[garyh]

Some useful info here http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html

[Crossy]

We change our oil every day (actually it gets used for only two or three fish before being ditched)

The waste oil man used to get it for free until the local farmers discovered it would run their Iron Buffaloes. There's now a thriving market

He uses it in his old Isuzu pickup with no apparent issues but there is no way I'll be putting it in my common-rail engine.

Edited November 10, 2008 by Crossy

[garyh]

We change our oil every day (actually it gets used for only two or three fish before being ditched)

The waste oil man used to get it for free until the local farmers discovered it would run their Iron Buffaloes. There's now a thriving market

He uses it in his old Isuzu pickup with no apparent issues but there is no way I'll be putting it in my common-rail engine.

Yes you need to be careful with hightech diesels, old mechanical systems are a lot more forgiving. Places like Solomon Islands run pure untreated coconut oil in generators very successfully, but doing the same with other types of oil can be disasterous. Some oils burn leaving a hard brown film which gums up piston rings to the point of failure.

[kokesaat]

I've heard a few neighbors complain recently about problems in their pickups after using the B5 grade of diesel. I've stayed away from it to this point, but fear some day I might have no choice (out in the countryside, small village, etc). Can anyone shed any light on possible negative effects of B5 in a newer model truck (I have a Toyota Vigo, 2008)

[Crossy]

I've heard a few neighbors complain recently about problems in their pickups after using the B5 grade of diesel. I've stayed away from it to this point, but fear some day I might have no choice (out in the countryside, small village, etc). Can anyone shed any light on possible negative effects of B5 in a newer model truck (I have a Toyota Vigo, 2008)

The only 'negative' effect I've come across from using bio-diesel (rather than just mixing veggie oil with regular diesel) is that bio has a somewhat greater detergent effect than normal diesel. The nett result is that it loosens up the crud that's been floating around in your tank and fuel lines and bungs up the fuel filter, once cleaned out once or twice this doesn't happen again.

I am of course, assuming that Thai B5 is 5% 'real' bio-diesel not just 5% veggie oil bunged in with regular diesel.

Anyone know what actually goes into B5??

I've been using B5 in my 2006 Ranger with no issues thus far (looking for bit of wood to touch). Now doubt has been inserted in my mind I will be asking Mr Ford if B5 is ok next service.

[elkangorito]

Some B5 info:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2243604

[sumrit]

I've heard a few neighbors complain recently about problems in their pickups after using the B5 grade of diesel. I've stayed away from it to this point, but fear some day I might have no choice (out in the countryside, small village, etc). Can anyone shed any light on possible negative effects of B5 in a newer model truck (I have a Toyota Vigo, 2008)

The only 'negative' effect I've come across from using bio-diesel (rather than just mixing veggie oil with regular diesel) is that bio has a somewhat greater detergent effect than normal diesel. The nett result is that it loosens up the crud that's been floating around in your tank and fuel lines and bungs up the fuel filter, once cleaned out once or twice this doesn't happen again.

I am of course, assuming that Thai B5 is 5% 'real' bio-diesel not just 5% veggie oil bunged in with regular diesel.

Anyone know what actually goes into B5??

I've been using B5 in my 2006 Ranger with no issues thus far (looking for bit of wood to touch). Now doubt has been inserted in my mind I will be asking Mr Ford if B5 is ok next service.

My wifes cousin, who works for Mitsubishi, told me recently that they'd had a report from Denso (who make the diesel pump for the Triton etc) saying they don't recomend the use of bio diesel at all as it can damage the pump, but I'm not sure how, something to do with it getting blocked.

[poldebol]

Just bought a NIssan Navara Diesel. The salesman urged me NOT to use biodiesel. I mailed Niisan BKK and they recommend to use ONLY B5 from PTT.

Two quotes from the Nissan manual p9-4, publication No OM7E-0D40G1T:

"Diesel fuel of at least 50 cetane must be used"

....

"Caution:

Do not use home heating oil, gasoline, biodiesel or other alternate fuels in your diesel engine. The use of those can cause engine damage."

So, for Nissan, it is NO, YES, NO untill further notice. What do they expect? That I use Eau de Cologne?

I mailed Exxon Thailand. I understand from them that the legal minimum qualification for ADO (Automotive Diesel Oil) in Thailand is 47 cetane, but that their specification is higher than 50 cetane. I quote:

"Therefore, Esso can assure you of the product standard and is qualify

to be used for any type and any brand of vehicle that use ADO as the source

of energy."

I think, I will take the cheapest solution. Unless somebody brings good arguments to my post.

[thaicbr]

I have been using B5 in my 2004 Ford Ranger. and actually feels better, more powerful etc. only thing i have noticed on thinking about is at idle it seems to vibrate more. but that could just be me getting used to a new (2nd hand) truck.

any one else notice this. but at the saving i will live with it.

Allan

[dumball]

Just bought a NIssan Navara Diesel. The salesman urged me NOT to use biodiesel. I mailed Niisan BKK and they recommend to use ONLY B5 from PTT.

Two quotes from the Nissan manual p9-4, publication No OM7E-0D40G1T:

"Diesel fuel of at least 50 cetane must be used"

....

"Caution:

Do not use home heating oil, gasoline, biodiesel or other alternate fuels in your diesel engine. The use of those can cause engine damage."

So, for Nissan, it is NO, YES, NO untill further notice. What do they expect? That I use Eau de Cologne?

I mailed Exxon Thailand. I understand from them that the legal minimum qualification for ADO (Automotive Diesel Oil) in Thailand is 47 cetane, but that their specification is higher than 50 cetane. I quote:

"Therefore, Esso can assure you of the product standard and is qualify

to be used for any type and any brand of vehicle that use ADO as the source

of energy."

I think, I will take the cheapest solution. Unless somebody brings good arguments to my post.

Should you not be aware of ALL of the effects of what you are doing , your pocket-book will be the first practical indication of your lack of pertinant information , engine rebuilds are far more expensive than the savings on cheap(and incorrect) fuel savings , after all , many of us just may not be the mechanical engineers we THINK we are at any given time .

[gregb]

The food vendors save their waste oil and then resell it to other food vendors!

I'm not joking. There's a big shop up at Si Mom Muang market, the big wholesale night market up north of Don Muang where all the Issan trucks deliver their wares. This shop collects, filters and resells waste cooking oil. From what I can see to other vendors who then reuse it for cooking. Consider that next time you see the street vendor take their oil from the big 5 liter can. Where did that can come from? Does it look new to you?

An it isn't cheap either. Last I checked they wanted 14 baht per liter.

[Bpraim1]

Just bought a NIssan Navara Diesel. The salesman urged me NOT to use biodiesel. I mailed Niisan BKK and they recommend to use ONLY B5 from PTT.

Two quotes from the Nissan manual p9-4, publication No OM7E-0D40G1T:

"Diesel fuel of at least 50 cetane must be used"

....

"Caution:

Do not use home heating oil, gasoline, biodiesel or other alternate fuels in your diesel engine. The use of those can cause engine damage."

So, for Nissan, it is NO, YES, NO untill further notice. What do they expect? That I use Eau de Cologne?

I mailed Exxon Thailand. I understand from them that the legal minimum qualification for ADO (Automotive Diesel Oil) in Thailand is 47 cetane, but that their specification is higher than 50 cetane. I quote:

"Therefore, Esso can assure you of the product standard and is qualify

to be used for any type and any brand of vehicle that use ADO as the source

of energy."

I think, I will take the cheapest solution. Unless somebody brings good arguments to my post.

I bought my Navara in bkk and have used B5 anytime I can get it. Talked to the slase rep and master tech and both answers were all for it.

50,000km and not a single hiccup.

Engine is also moded with a boost fooler and map sensor override.

My father is also a Tech for Cummins in Canada and knows his stuff about the uses of Bio and diesel pumps. Some can take it some can't.

Boi in small doses IE B5 have no detrimental effects on the pump or engine. When clean, correct octane fuel is used!!!!!

I do know this will bring alot of ill informed Thai Visa viewers to start to salivate at the mouth and have hot fingers. So type away. But please read some info before you try to set me straight.

Crossy, PTT uses Palm oil in there B5 which is prossed through a company called Thai Oleo Chemicals. I would guess that others would most likely obtain there Bio oils through them also.

Here is a link to some Bio Facts

http://www.biofuels.apec.org/me_thailand.html

[handydog]

To the origonal poster, and any other interested I guess.

I have been experimenting the last 15 years with different approaches to the manufacture of bio-diesel, and got the best results with transesterification.

Is anyone interseted in doing it with me at a small commercial level?

[Gary A]

I have been using B-5 in my 2004 Nissan Frontier since B-5 became available. Since vegetable/palm oil is a detergent, I think it has helped to keep my fuel system clean. Fuel economy is great and since my actual kilometers per liter irritates some people and causes them to call me a liar, I won't brag about it.

[frtiz]

I have been using B-5 in my 2004 Nissan Frontier since B-5 became available. Since vegetable/palm oil is a detergent, I think it has helped to keep my fuel system clean. Fuel economy is great and since my actual kilometers per liter irritates some people and causes them to call me a liar, I won't brag about it.

Up until now, no one posted anything about an engine rebuild so I guess it would be OK to use B5 right?

I own a Navara 2.5 kingcab which I bought in April. I already did 15K with it and average fuel consumption is about 8l/100km highway plus a little city traffic. I drive every weekend from Rayong back to Nakhon Sawan. plus other work related driving this adds up to around 70K a year.

Any suggestions?

I also heard that using one of these soft/hard covers for the back of the truck will improve the efficiency/ fuel consumption. Any suggestions? sorry slightly off topic.

Best,

Fritz

[katabeachbum]

I have been using B-5 in my 2004 Nissan Frontier since B-5 became available. Since vegetable/palm oil is a detergent, I think it has helped to keep my fuel system clean. Fuel economy is great and since my actual kilometers per liter irritates some people and causes them to call me a liar, I won't brag about it.

Up until now, no one posted anything about an engine rebuild so I guess it would be OK to use B5 right?

I own a Navara 2.5 kingcab which I bought in April. I already did 15K with it and average fuel consumption is about 8l/100km highway plus a little city traffic. I drive every weekend from Rayong back to Nakhon Sawan. plus other work related driving this adds up to around 70K a year.

Any suggestions?

I also heard that using one of these soft/hard covers for the back of the truck will improve the efficiency/ fuel consumption. Any suggestions? sorry slightly off topic.

Best,

Fritz

Try to measure 3 tanks of Shells Vpower diesel. If you use less fuel running on this, make a calculation which fuel gets you best km/baht.

Yes a hard or soft cover for the bed improves aerodynamic and reduces fuel consumption.

But please, use 3 tanks of Vpower first so you dont make 2 changes at the same time. I know the result for 3,0 Toyotas but not for the Navara 2,5. Is it a 144 hp or 174 hp engine with auto or manual gear?

Edited June 16, 2009 by katabeachbum

[Hssl]

Try to measure 3 tanks of Shells Vpower diesel. If you use less fuel running on this, make a calculation which fuel gets you best km/baht.

Yes a hard or soft cover for the bed improves aerodynamic and reduces fuel consumption.

But please, use 3 tanks of Vpower first so you dont make 2 changes at the same time. I know the result for 3,0 Toyotas but not for the Navara 2,5. Is it a 144 hp or 174 hp engine with auto or manual gear?

3.0D4D 's can run on B5plus ?(vpower is the same right?) I thought it was a no no, having said that i got stuck out in the sticks at a PTT station a couple of weeks back and IMHO the B5plus I got made the engine as well if not better than regular diesel and a little more kms to a litre.

[basjke]

3.0D4D 's can run on B5plus ?(vpower is the same right?) I thought it was a no no, having said that i got stuck out in the sticks at a PTT station a couple of weeks back and IMHO the B5plus I got made the engine as well if not better than regular diesel and a little more kms to a litre.

No just the opposite.Vpower diesel is more expensive then regular diesel.

[Bpraim1]

Just hit 60,000kms with my B5 fueled Navara and not a problem.

Fuel filter clean

Injectors clean

The best part of B5 is getting 5 free bottles of beer with every fill up.

I love you B5

[katabeachbum]

3.0D4D 's can run on B5plus ?(vpower is the same right?) I thought it was a no no, having said that i got stuck out in the sticks at a PTT station a couple of weeks back and IMHO the B5plus I got made the engine as well if not better than regular diesel and a little more kms to a litre.

No just the opposite.Vpower diesel is more expensive then regular diesel.

There are 3 diesel qualities available in LOS

B5, is 5% palmoil blended with 95 % diesel. When Vigo/Fortuner was facelifted late 2008, one of the upgrades was to now be able to run on B5

Ordinary diesel. Not as dirty as the Russian diesel, but stops at Euro 3.

V-Power from Shell. The only supplier of a Euro 4 diesel, which most European engines require.

B5 is cheap. Its sponsored by the government, but I would like you all to try 3 tanks of V-power and measure consumption. For some engines you ll be surprised.

[Bpraim1]

I just finished reading shells ULSD website . And can not find any supporting info for your Vpower fuel comsumption decrease.

25. Does using sulphur free fuel affect the power of a vehicle?

No, the reduction in the sulphur content will not have an effect on vehicle power.

26. Will ULSD have any benefit to the vehicle per se, eg faster acceleration, better fuel economy, easier starting, etc., as lower emission benefits the environment, not necessarily the vehicle?

No, the reduction in the sulphur content will not have an effect on vehicle performance except for lower emissions that benefits the environment.

Please let me know how this expensive diesel is going to help cut costs?

This topic is about Bio Diesel, not standard diesel.

[katabeachbum]

I just finished reading shells ULSD website . And can not find any supporting info for your Vpower fuel comsumption decrease.

25. Does using sulphur free fuel affect the power of a vehicle?

No, the reduction in the sulphur content will not have an effect on vehicle power.

26. Will ULSD have any benefit to the vehicle per se, eg faster acceleration, better fuel economy, easier starting, etc., as lower emission benefits the environment, not necessarily the vehicle?

No, the reduction in the sulphur content will not have an effect on vehicle performance except for lower emissions that benefits the environment.

Please let me know how this expensive diesel is going to help cut costs?

This topic is about Bio Diesel, not standard diesel.

If this topic is about bio diesel only, I will not let you know how other diesels can cut costs

[Bpraim1]

This vpower diesel will not cut costs! As stated by the manufaturer.

So I just want to know how you got it to make good fuel milage over other brands?

Vpower Diesel is just another brand of Ultra low sulphur diesel, Octane rateing is the same. Just less soot. 50ppm or less. Euro 4 spec!

Bio Diesel is prices 3 btpl cheaper then normal diesel with the same Octane rateing.

SO how can V power save money against Bio?

[katabeachbum]

This vpower diesel will not cut costs! As stated by the manufaturer.

So I just want to know how you got it to make good fuel milage over other brands?

Vpower Diesel is just another brand of Ultra low sulphur diesel, Octane rateing is the same. Just less soot. 50ppm or less. Euro 4 spec!

Bio Diesel is prices 3 btpl cheaper then normal diesel with the same Octane rateing.

SO how can V power save money against Bio?

I am not a petroleum expert, just another carowner who spends a lot on fuel.

Since most posters do not belive a more expensive fuel can be cheaper pr km in some vehicles I reckomend everyone to try 3 tanks and measure the average on those 3 tanks.

Then you can calculate the advantage for the engine and partickel filter on the exhaust, to not handle all this sulphur and soot.

I will not try to make calkulation on the reduced lifetime for an engine running on 5% palmoil. The valves are lubricated by fuel only, and palmoil is not a good lubricant at these temperatures. As another poster stated, it acts as a detergent. But the engines certainly run problemfree 100k km as guaranteed by manufacturer.

I guess there is no price on the environment.

[Bpraim1]

Not to get into a match with you, but you may need to study Bio diesels more.

Tests have shown that Bio Diesels help to reduce wear on engine components due to it's libricity.

ULSD is harder on engines as it has less lubrication properties, then Bio Diesel.

Bio Diesel also has shown in tests to inprove fuel combustion, leading to less soot and emmisions.

On par with Euro 4 spec, when blended at 20% Bio.

More than 100 Biodiesel demonstrations, with over 10 million road miles in trucks, have confirmed the performance benefits of this fuel additive for emissions and mechanical lubricity. No adverse durability or engine wear problems were found; in fact, in road tests with heavy duty truck engines, engine wear was significantly decreased after running 100,000 miles on blends of Biodiesel (University of Idaho studies).