Micro Businesses For Your Unskilled Partners

[Scott]

A basic problem is there are so many absolutely lovely young men out there and lust often over takes common sense. Basic personality, including motivation, seldom changes. So if they are deceitful when you meet them, they will probably continue to be so. If it's a boy friend, then don't play daddy--at least about their life.

If you are lucky enough to find one who has a few neurons firing and a bit of motivation, they can do a lot. But it has to be up to them.

I never gave my other half much. I helped, but he did all the work. All the way to a Masters Degree and eventually earning more money than I earn. I never stomped on his dreams--we all had them. I didn't agree with his choice of study or other things, but, hey, it wasn't my life, it was his.

Set someone up in business. I'd never do it. Business, especially being self-employed, requires a real accumen. Very few poor, uneducated boys who enter the trade have the ability to succeed. If you love someone don't set them up to fail and don't throw good money after bad.

[scorecard]

Education in Thailand is seldom more than the pursuit of certificates to hang on the wall. Personal development doesn't figure - that would involve critical though and analysis - and it's not going to happen.

By all means enrol teerak in a uni/school, but think of it as day-care more than anything else. Hopefully he'll be too tired at the end of a long day in a lecture hall with 150 other dozing students to want to go clubbing. Or he might simply be reluctant to risk being spotted by his new peers hanging around bars in Paradise complex.

The picture you portray might be true at places like Ramkamhaeng U but it is not the general picture:

- My classes (at a Thai univeristy business school) are generally a maximum of 30 students.

- Dean of the business school has in last ten years totally changed the focus, so that everything is student centered, and the dean continuously challenges faculty members (Thai and farang) in terms of value to students and ultimate value to business organizations and longer-term to society.

- Students must participate strongly in class, both at a personal level and at a team level or they will never pass. In fact they are rated for personal and class participation.

- Students who can't stay awake are told to leave the room, and if they obviously have a hang-over they are told to leave and the attendance record is changed to absent, however I have never had this happen because my students work very hard and their studies/team assignments come first.

- Mobile phones must be totally turned off. Students caught doing SMS in class must then hand-in their mobile before class commences for the rest of the course.

- Every class ends with a 40 - 50 minute case study which requires some form of innovation. Any team which doesn't come up with something interesting must complete the case study again and send the result to me at least 18 hours before the next lecture. If I still don't accept their work as innovative they are marked absent from the next two lectures.

- Class attendance is recorded meticulously, and not by the lecturer. More than five minutes late and your marked absent and there are no acceptable excuses. Students know to never say : "sorry, sorry, traffic, traffic". More than Ten minutes late and you can't enter the room.

- If one student tries to sign in for another student and they are caught, then both students are banned from attending the rest of the course and for the next two full semesters.

- Students must attend less than 90% of lectures or they cannot sit for the final exam and they must then repeat the whole course again.

- Mid-term / end of course exams deliberately don't ask the students to remember/recite sections or paragraphs of text-books / recite definitions etc, and there are no multiple choice questions.

- Exams are based on students being insightful about what they have learned.

- Their peers will quickly tell them if they're not doing their share of team assignments.

- Right now one of my classes has a 3 month project to research, in two organizations, a given critical factor of business success. All the teams have just made a written and verbal presentation of their project plans for the research project, each team took over one and a half hours to make their verbal presentation. I accepted all of their project plans.

- I rarely have drop outs from courses.

- Although fees are not as cheap as Ramkamhaeng and SukoThai universites, they are not all that bad.

[bobsaigon]

Jingthing says "Yeah, most uneducated Thai people from the lower economic classes STAY uneducated in the lower economic classes all their lives".

That may sound a bit harsh, but as I re-read what I wrote above, there is no denying the accuracy of Jingthing's remark. Operative word is "most", allowing for a small number of exceptions.

[geriatrickid]

I commend Bobsaigon for at last trying to do the right thing, not that he needs my praise, although gosh darn I bet it made his day . That being said I thing Jingthing has it wrong about poor people being destined to remain poor. It's a question of the right fit. Some people had the benefit of high school guidance counsellors and vocational testing/counseling so that they could see where they might be best suited. The problem as I see it is that there's a bit of a rush without some pre-screening, if you will. Who of any of us knew what they wanted to do at the age of 19? Cripes, I was still waiting to get my first chest hair and I was in my 2nd year of sciences at university without really knowing why I was there. I did not have the benefit of academic counseling or vocational guidance. Probably would have done me wonders. It took me a couple of diplomas and changes in faculties to finally find a place where I would succeed, although looking back on it, I think I should have done a DVM as my people skills suck the wazoo, and I like critters better than people.

I'm not saying jingy is all wrong, but it needs to be put in perspective. By coincidence 2 nights ago, one of my buddies was over with his best friend. The buddy and I were feuding with best friend mediating. I was berating my friend for having gone back to university without really being sure that the program was what he wanted. I asked him if he had considered other options; perhaps sciences,engineering, liberal arts and not just business studies. No, No he insisted, he knew what he wanted. He then told me how he wanted to get into advertising. It was the kind of immature position I had when I was 16 or 17, yet my friend is 28. I asked him just what he hoped to achieve or where he would work. The response made me think of how I must have driven my parents crazy when I gave similar answers. There is obviously a gap between the perceptions and the reality. The role one can assume is that of trying to bridge that gap. Unfortunately, I don't have the patience nor the language skills to do so, but I know many of you people do. The investment of a bit of advice first might make the investment pay off.

I don't even know if I am being realistic on the advice aspect since my latest argument with a friend is over his need to purchase a laptop, He is fixated on a specific brand and options like a webcam. Here I am the most unsavvy of anyone on IT issues and I am explaining to him that he needs to look at the software he wants to run first, RAM, and the OS and then "build" the specs he should look for. The downside is that my friend has fallen for marketing hype. He didn't think it through and he's supposed to be a university graduate? The upside is that a year ago, he would have rushed off to buy it. Now, he is actually discussing the purchase with me and won't buy anything unless I "approve". Sadly, he's dragged me to 5 computer shops in the past week, but at least it means I haven't sat around drinking .

Edited July 6, 2009 by geriatrickid

[scorecard]

I commend Bobsaigon for at last trying to do the right thing, not that he needs my praise, although gosh darn I bet it made his day . That being said I thing Jingthing has it wrong about poor people being destined to remain poor. It's a question of the right fit. Some people had the benefit of high school guidance counsellors and vocational testing/counseling so that they could see where they might be best suited. The problem as I see it is that there's a bit of a rush without some pre-screening, if you will. Who of any of us knew what they wanted to do at the age of 19? Cripes, I was still waiting to get my first chest hair and I was in my 2nd year of sciences at university without really knowing why I was there. I did not have the benefit of academic counseling or vocational guidance. Probably would have done me wonders. It took me a couple of diplomas and changes in faculties to finally find a place where I would succeed, although looking back on it, I think I should have done a DVM as my people skills suck the wazoo, and I like critters better than people.

I'm not saying jingy is all wrong, but it needs to be put in perspective. By coincidence 2 nights ago, one of my buddies was over with his best friend. The buddy and I were feuding with best friend mediating. I was berating my friend for having gone back to university without really being sure that the program was what he wanted. I asked him if he had considered other options; perhaps sciences,engineering, liberal arts and not just business studies. No, No he insisted, he knew what he wanted. He then told me how he wanted to get into advertising. It was the kind of immature position I had when I was 16 or 17, yet my friend is 28. I asked him just what he hoped to achieve or where he would work. The response made me think of how I must have driven my parents crazy when I gave similar answers. There is obviously a gap between the perceptions and the reality. The role one can assume is that of trying to bridge that gap. Unfortunately, I don't have the patience nor the language skills to do so, but I know many of you people do. The investment of a bit of advice first might make the investment pay off.

I don't even know if I am being realistic on the advice aspect since my latest argument with a friend is over his need to purchase a laptop, He is fixated on a specific brand and options like a webcam. Here I am the most unsavvy of anyone on IT issues and I am explaining to him that he needs to look at the software he wants to run first, RAM, and the OS and then "build" the specs he should look for. The downside is that my friend has fallen for marketing hype. He didn't think it through and he's supposed to be a university graduate? The upside is that a year ago, he would have rushed off to buy it. Now, he is actually discussing the purchase with me and won't buy anything unless I "approve". Sadly, he's dragged me to 5 computer shops in the past week, but at least it means I haven't sat around drinking .

Sorry, but i've got to say this.

Have you never rushed into doing something / buying something, etc., too quickly? And prabably not analsysed the situation as well as you should have?

Have we all done the same thing?

Have some of us learned from our mistakes, have some of us not learned from our mistakes?

Sorry my friend, but can I suggest you accept that your friends behavior is pretty normal.

But why not try to humorously try help him to be a bit better at analysing situations and better at making more realistic decisions.

[paulfromphuket]

Education in Thailand is seldom more than the pursuit of certificates to hang on the wall. Personal development doesn't figure - that would involve critical though and analysis - and it's not going to happen.

By all means enrol teerak in a uni/school, but think of it as day-care more than anything else. Hopefully he'll be too tired at the end of a long day in a lecture hall with 150 other dozing students to want to go clubbing. Or he might simply be reluctant to risk being spotted by his new peers hanging around bars in Paradise complex.

The picture you portray might be true at places like Ramkamhaeng U but it is not the general picture:

- My classes (at a Thai univeristy business school) are generally a maximum of 30 students.

- Dean of the business school has in last ten years totally changed the focus, so that everything is student centered, and the dean continuously challenges faculty members (Thai and farang) in terms of value to students and ultimate value to business organizations and longer-term to society.

- Students must participate strongly in class, both at a personal level and at a team level or they will never pass. In fact they are rated for personal and class participation.

- Students who can't stay awake are told to leave the room, and if they obviously have a hang-over they are told to leave and the attendance record is changed to absent, however I have never had this happen because my students work very hard and their studies/team assignments come first.

- Mobile phones must be totally turned off. Students caught doing SMS in class must then hand-in their mobile before class commences for the rest of the course.

- Every class ends with a 40 - 50 minute case study which requires some form of innovation. Any team which doesn't come up with something interesting must complete the case study again and send the result to me at least 18 hours before the next lecture. If I still don't accept their work as innovative they are marked absent from the next two lectures.

- Class attendance is recorded meticulously, and not by the lecturer. More than five minutes late and your marked absent and there are no acceptable excuses. Students know to never say : "sorry, sorry, traffic, traffic". More than Ten minutes late and you can't enter the room.

- If one student tries to sign in for another student and they are caught, then both students are banned from attending the rest of the course and for the next two full semesters.

- Students must attend less than 90% of lectures or they cannot sit for the final exam and they must then repeat the whole course again.

- Mid-term / end of course exams deliberately don't ask the students to remember/recite sections or paragraphs of text-books / recite definitions etc, and there are no multiple choice questions.

- Exams are based on students being insightful about what they have learned.

- Their peers will quickly tell them if they're not doing their share of team assignments.

- Right now one of my classes has a 3 month project to research, in two organizations, a given critical factor of business success. All the teams have just made a written and verbal presentation of their project plans for the research project, each team took over one and a half hours to make their verbal presentation. I accepted all of their project plans.

- I rarely have drop outs from courses.

- Although fees are not as cheap as Ramkamhaeng and SukoThai universites, they are not all that bad.

so which one you are talking about, my Ym could not finish at Tammasart due to familiey issues so maybe I could see if he wants to try again there at your place.

[BarryM]

Bobsaigon - now I know why the Thai baht is so strong. You've waged a one man gay Marshall plan.

I think giving the money to orphanages would have done even less to help young people fulfill their potential. I sponsored a lad at an orphanage for ten years. His elder brother showed real acedemic aptitude and sailed through a media degree. He claimed to want to work in media as a career. I pulled some strings to arrange an internship with india's leading media group, staying with english teachers from one of delhis leading private schools. He would receive an allowance and flights.

The orphanage preferred hecworked as a waiter in a local hotel.

In the words of the song "she won't let you fly but she might let you sing".

On another occasion I paid and organized sailing lessons at a local yacht club for ten orphans every week. They went once, did a group photo and never went back. The orphanage said the kids were too busy to learn sailing. Busy doing what? The real issue is it teaches self reliance and gives kids confidence. Mustn't have that must we?

[Unfaithful]

Sammi noi or phua noi, maybe six momths out of the boy bar: two months, unemployed.Three months in a karaoke bar.His long time good friend, former bar boy well past his prime, borrowed sammi's savings of 20.000 baht and cannot repay him.Sammi is now unemployed again.No job skills.Mot a bright kid.

[Bluelotus]

One pitfall not mentioned so far is that Thai guys don't tell you how they feel about something if they think it will upset you .

I opened a micro business with my BF and it was cute ,did well ,made money from day one , he HATED it , never told me until about a month after it was opened. Really p1ssed me off but I was green then and didn't understand. I think he was hoping it would fail and he could just ride it out but when it did well he had to let me know at first it was hints then downright sabotage, I wisely folded shop it wasn't worth the relationship , Just celebrated 7 years together , he works now at his chosen profession makes a dam_n good wage , and saves pathologically.

[cdnmatt]

I'm surprised at some of you boys. The solution is EDUCATION.

Ask the bf if he wants to go to school. If he jumps at it and says yes, then you have something to work with. The best gift one can give is self sufficiency. Know what going to school does for some people? Gives them homework that keeps them busy, introduces them to good people and gives them a sense of purpose. Sure, the thai education system can be described as crap, but it's fine for someone of simple background. Basic discipline is taught. Even some knowledge is gained.

Exactly! Just like the old adage, give a man a fish, he can eat for a day; teach a man to fish, he can eat for a lifetime. Same goes for the unskilled Thai BFs and education.

Why would I screw around investing in some noodle stand, so in 5 years from now, he can still be making say 300 - 400 baht/day? That's if he hasn't already sold the noodle stand to help pay family debts, or whatever. I'd much rather put that money into a quality education, so if and when the bottom falls out with us, he's capable of taking care of himself and providing himself with a decent life. A noodle stand in Kohn Kaen isn't going to do that for him. That, and as already posted, keeps him busy, gets me into good social circles, lets him feel good about himself and his life, etc.

Edited September 1, 2009 by cdnmatt

[Ijustwannateach]

^It works for some people. Depends on whether or not education is a good fit for the individual in question. Some would be better off (and happier) with the noodle stand...

[onni4me]

Some would be better off (and happier) with the noodle stand...

Somehow I agree that education in the modern world may or may not be the solution. So called experts are popping up like mushrooms and they sometimes have very little true value in actual everyday business. IMHO, education is sometimes truly overvalued. Sometimes I feel it comes from this perception that you can make your way from rugs to riches through education. A true Dickensian 18th century belief. In nowadays competitive environment, it is very unlikely.

To begin with, one should have substantial amount of capital to make proper gains. And that most of us don't have. Then looking especially Thai infrastructure, some expenses like logistics are very high in comparison to f.e. Europe. It can be as high as 12% of the final sales price, in Europe between 2-5%. Many fields are not very competitive since they are closed from competition (no foreigner owned companies).

In my native Finland, you need many years of education and then you still might end up with a meager job. I feel that resources are used in very silly ways. A simple sales job might require years of education that does not contribute much to the actual job.

What comes to Thais, many seem to have very rosy views how much they can make in their dream business. Many times when I have calculated how much they could make and how much rent and other costs, they have lost their smile and almost frowned upon me. Sometimes they seem to live in an illusion. One might think it is better to let them dream than to engage in any business with them. This I believe is the best solution.