Thai Men + Farang Women

[WinnieTheKhwai]

..this seems a remarkably challenging discussion to have.. I take in, agree with and respect the comments made and think they are accurate. I will however quote very selectively which is not intended to be nasty or confrontational, but to highlight what I was getting at. I'll drop it after this last effort to get on the same page.

Back on topic: You were about to claim that most Western women (as opposed to typical Western men) do actually marry successful middle class Thai people. And not the cliche of the boat/bar/bungalow/tattoo artist/long-haired-guitar-dude type.

Suggest you get out and about more, meet people and get out of the circles that you are comfortable with and you might find a great big world of all sorts of interesting people living lives you never knew about existed out there. Including, gasp, attractive western women with gasp non beachboy/guitar playing/tattood dudes.

The above response would work if my statement was "There exist no attractive Western women. No Western woman has ever dated a successful middle class Thai person." But please accept that my statement wasn't that. If it was then I'd agree: I sure as heck should get out more. But guess what, I get around quite a bit, and I too know several very attractive Western women, and several who have partners who don't fit the stereotype.

What I was getting at was for you to either acknowledge or deny (!) that a majority of couples do fit the stereotype. Not all. But a really significant number and quite possibly the majority. Why is this so hard? I don't have trouble discussing the stereotype of Farang males in relationships with Thai women. It's about statistics and generalizations and I concede that those are hard to have onjectively as there clearly there are plenty cases that don't fit the stereotype.

Note to self: be sure to tell husband he's got to get out of working the business, grow his hair, get a tattoo and learn to play the guitar.

WTK, I have never dated a guy of any nationality who wore a suit for a living & quite honestly would rather poke myself in the eye with a fork than do so, boring for me. I've always been attracted to the arty/music types. so I

Apologies in afvance for snipping the quote so abruptly, but Boo's post is another example of departing from discussing trends we see out there but instead immediately relating it to one's own sitation. Sbk mentioned she doesn't fit the stereotype. Boo mentioned she does kinda-sorta fit the stereotype at least from casual observation and defended her choices. There is nothing I would or could counter to any of that. Similarly I know many great Western guys who are in great relationships with women who superficially fit the 'short black Isan power-dwarf' stereotype. Honestly neither they nor I would ever question or need to defend their choices; it's crystal clear they made the right choices and are in a great relationship.

They do tend to be capable to have a discussion on typical Western 'spec' of Thai women without feeling it's somehow an attack on their lifestyle. In your defence I concede it's likely that you had this discussion a little too often with boneheaded Farang males which may be why you assume all kinds of judgemental opinions on my side of the argument. But honestly there exist none. If I was a Western chick I'd go for Boo's husband too. That's kind of where I would like to go with this, that both Western men and Western women tend to go for Thai partners who are out of the main stream. And that many of the traits both men and women are looking for (or de-facto end up with) are actually very similar.

Ok.. back to baby duty.. Why do 8 month old babies insist on being wide awake at 4am.

Edited January 20, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Englander]

Whatever.

I have always found it interesting when western guys trot out that tired old cliche when its pretty clear to anyone who chooses to look that there are plenty of young attractive western women travelling, just as there also plenty of older, unattractive and overweight Thai women around. I guess its much easier if you live your life with blinkers on seeing only the things you want to see. But please, do not then go ahead and pretend that its fact, thanks.

Its that exact attitude which makes western women unattractive to everyone.

Some of the finest girls ive seen in BKK are white western girls but all of the time they're with a bf, hence no chance for Mr Thaiman no matter how rich and attractive he thinks he is.

[cdnvic]

Its that exact attitude which makes western women unattractive to everyone.

The inability to stroke his ego by accepting his uninformed fantasy world view of things?

As for the "everyone" comment.... that just sort of answers the above query

[jackr]

The far fewer farang women and availability of willing Thai men who can speak English aside, I'd say a major reason is the high & mighty attitude displayed by many farang ladies (including on this thread) is not appreciated by the Thai male and the fact that there are beautiful Thai females for them everywhere.

[maccaroni man]

I fnd it ineteresting that this thread resurfaced and i am happy to read what WTK has written, i agree that of course what he is saying is not 100% and that yes there are a large number of western women with thai men who come from the tourist trade,i.e. they speak english, work around travelers and have learned that there are a number of western women traveling alone that are more than happy to pay the way for their attention and company. When i livedin Bali I got to know a local Bali Boy who worked in a bar, about every two weeks he was seeing one of his new girl friends off to the airport, one day i passed him on the road and he looked a bit sad, iasked him what was up and he told me his latest girlfiend had just left, i laughed as this was nothing new, he looked at me and said, no this one was real and that she was going to send for him to come to her home country. 2 days later i spotted him with a new love, so what is to be made of this? If you cant be with the one you love, love the one your with? At the end of the day people are people man or woman everyone wants a companion and a western woman is most likley to find that companionship from a thai male that is working with tourist and not all of theose males have the best motives at heart.

[DP25]

I'd say a major reason is the high & mighty attitude displayed by many farang ladies (including on this thread) is not appreciated by the Thai male

High and mighty? With some of the attitudes in this thread it's no surprise that for some foreign guys, the first female to talk to them in years is also the the one who robs them blind.

Edited January 21, 2011 by DP25

[JurgenG]

I married the long haired, tattooed musician/tattoo artist from issan. and he looks goooood on it too.

does that make my husband low class? well lets see, he comes from a nice family, was catholic school educated, started uni then quit to play music full time, is a hard working man

I see more and more of this kind of (Thai) people in Isaan. Good background, with some to a lot of education, with some to a lot of money. They usually have in common that they want to escape the rat race in the big city and are looking for something more close to our natural rythm.

I think much more than the foreign husbands, they are the ones who are really responsible for the development of Isaan.

Sorry for high jacking this thread, just something I wanted to share.

[bobbin]

Ooohh. This is a interesting one and it hasn't been closed down....yet. Disclaimer..please don't take this as making a moderation comment.

Someone referenced the United States. There, allowing for exceptions (always), despite the fact that there are many ethnically Asian men, often high-achievers academically and in business, the Asian male/Caucasian female pairing is not that common.

Many Caucasian women are uncomfortable with the smaller physique of most Asian men, despite the fact that many are quite handsome. But that is not the whole explanation, because I am similar in physique to Asian sizing and had no problem connecting with Caucasian women. At least when I was young and attractive.

Many Caucasian men, on the other hand, are quite delighted with the smaller physique of Asian women. I would assume (oh oh) that Asian males also prefer women smaller than themselves. And no, I'm not talking about overweight ladies, but about the fact that Caucasians, male and female, are generally larger than Asians.

Couple this with the male propensity to be more "adventurous" and you go a long way to answering the question...

Darn, I just realized my argument is somewhat flawed, in that if males are more adventurous, Asian men would be quite interested in Caucasian females. And some posters have said that in their experience this is the case. So it's got to be the Caucasian women, exceptions noted, who are not interested.

Could it be that, generally, females are more "racist" than males?

[meadish_sweetball]

<br />

<br />Haha, yes, that...but the females that want to go with bar-boys seem to be flocking to West-Africa...and there are really not that many boy-bars here - apart from the gay kind. <br />

<br />

<br /><br />A large proportion of the guys who work as bar-boys in gay places are actually straight.<br />

<br />

<br />I know - but that fact doesn't alter their clientele.<br />

<br /><br />Straight farang women are welcome in most gay gogo bars and will soon have a crowd of bar-boys buzzing round them. What happens after that is up to them.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

A couple of English teaching girls I knew in Bangkok would do just that. I don't imagine they were the only ones.

[Berkshire]

It's really not that hard of a question to answer.

There are very few young attractive white women floating around in Thailand. MOST of the ones you see here are overweight, older, and not very attractive (might be harsh, but it's true). There are so many young attractive slim Thai women around. Thai men would prefer to have the obvious.

That's pretty harsh, Thaiman. In fairness: the quality (i.e., physical attractiveness) of farang women in Thailand is pretty much identical to the quality of farang men in Thailand. The big difference, in the context of interracial relationships, is that while a 25 year old, destitute Thai woman would be willing to date a 55 year old farang man, a 25 year old destitute Thai man would not be so willing to date a 55 year old farang women, regardless of how many houses she buys his parents.

[bonobo]

This would make a great Thesis subject. I wonder if there are any books written on the subject?

I am not sure about Western women/Thai men specific books, but there are numerous books and studies written about inter-racial and cross-cultural relationships. And some of them are rather fascinating reads.

[bonobo]

It's really not that hard of a question to answer.

There are very few young attractive white women floating around in Thailand. MOST of the ones you see here are overweight, older, and not very attractive (might be harsh, but it's true). There are so many young attractive slim Thai women around. Thai men would prefer to have the obvious.

Have you ever been to Koh San Road?

While I am not in the demographic of interest to them, the place is packed with young, attractive women from the West. (I may not be of interest to them, but I can still look.) And if you are ever there on the weekend, there are a good number of Thai young men going there to meet said Western women.

Walk down Wittayu Road sometime during lunchtime. There are many, many young women there.

OK, so the Koh San crew may not be in the market for a long-term relationship, but it is silly to say that most Western women here are "overweight, older, and not very attractive." (And since when has any of those precluded a happy relationship anyway?) And as sbk has pointed out many times, but seems to get ignored, she came here quite young and married young, so that is a confirmed case where a young, attractive woman married a Thai man.

[bonobo]

Whatever.

I have always found it interesting when western guys trot out that tired old cliche when its pretty clear to anyone who chooses to look that there are plenty of young attractive western women travelling, just as there also plenty of older, unattractive and overweight Thai women around. I guess its much easier if you live your life with blinkers on seeing only the things you want to see. But please, do not then go ahead and pretend that its fact, thanks.

Blah blah blah. Yawn.

The only attractive western women I ever see are with their western boyfriends. Just have a look around. There are far more attractive Thai women around then there are western women. WAKE UP! Don't get angry just because Thailand is a mans' world not a womans'

"Attractiveness" is over-rated, in my opinion, and that is a pretty flimsy foundation on which to build a relationship. Given that, and apologies to sbk if I am getting personal and/or shallow, but she is a very attractive woman, and she is married to a Thai.

Of course there are more attractive Thai women than Western women here. There are more attractive Thai men then Western men. With almost 70,000,000 Thais and several hundred thousand Westerners, the numbers can't be side-stepped.

Writing "Blah blah blah. Yawn" is hardly a reasonable response and your blanket statements show a fairly closed mind, in my opinion.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Why is everyone responding to the knuckle-headed posts instead of reasoned replies? (see my post on the previous page) Fast-tracked for closure, is it?

Just give the Neanderthals a holiday without wasting time and pixels on them.

Edited January 21, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[SadieMBeagle]

It's really not that hard of a question to answer.

There are very few young attractive white women floating around in Thailand. MOST of the ones you see here are overweight, older, and not very attractive (might be harsh, but it's true). There are so many young attractive slim Thai women around. Thai men would prefer to have the obvious.

Hmm...I call TROLL.

Ladies and gentlemen, let's not feed the troll, okay? Let's just carry on with the discussion at hand. Thanks.

[SadieMBeagle]

OK, I had a big post written, then computer swallowed it...dammit!!

Let me just say, that as a farang woman who knows Winnie the Khwai personally, I think you ladies are being a little harsh on him. Really, he is not the stereotypical expat. Maybe it's because I know him, but reading his post did not have the same effect on me as it did on some of you. It's easy to take things the wrong way, especially after reading some of the posts on this thread ranging from mildly outrageous to full-on trolling. And maybe WTK should have reworded a few things. But, really, try to re-read his post.

Now, as a female farang expat, let me share my experiences on this topic... I've lived in Chiang Mai for 15 months. In that time I've caught the interest of a total of 2 Thai men, and 0 farang men (queue the troll/post responses talking about how fat, old and ugly I must be), one in the tourist industry (and also a friend), and one in the "corporate world." Both got embarrassed and backed off after the gossip got to be too much for them. It was disappointing at the time, but as a wise friend said to me, "If someone is not strong/confident enough to ignore the gossip, then they're not strong/confident enough to make a good partner."* Indeed.

I do think farang women AND men are more likely to date Thais in non-corporate industries, simply because (1) Unless farangs actually work in corporate offices in Thailand (okay, some of us do), we come into contact with non-corporate people more often, be they in the tourist industry, bar workers, musicians, or what-have-you; (2) Thais in the tourist industry, at least, have more confidence in their English skills so are more likely to approach a farang, as a friend or as a faen; and (3) Thais in the tourist industry gain exposure to farangs in their daily lives, and see that we're not some alien species

So...my opinion is that it's all in who we encounter in our day-to-day lives. The kind of life a farang leads has a direct correlation to who they meet. Also, I have been told by Thais and non-Thais alike that Thai men are shy to approach a western woman because (1) they are afraid their English skills aren't good enough (though usually their English is just fine, plus lots of us speak Thai, too!), and (2) we exhibit some qualities that are not normally found in a Thai female (for some of us, that includes a fondness for the saying the word "&lt;deleted&gt;," for which my Thai male friends are always admonishing me "that is not polite!")

(And I have just a minor bone to pick with Che Guava, with whom I usually agree...for some of us, dating a "corporate man," is not the end-all, be-all to life. &nbsp;I'm just sayin.')

*Winnie the Khwai said that!!

[sbk]

actually Sadie, the only bone I have to pick with WTK is his insistence on telling me what I am going to say next.

(which I guess would qualify me as thinking myself "high and mighty" )

[WinnieTheKhwai]

actually Sadie, the only bone I have to pick with WTK is his insistence on telling me what I am going to say next.

That's just basic debating; You never came out denying that, when you look at couples around you, the Thai man looks considerably more artistic than the average dude I might see walking into K-Bank on Pahon Yothin in Bangkok. (Yes, I'm visualising a lot, that's debating too)

So in my post on the previous page I put this in front of you, asking if you agreed or not, because you would have much more exposure to these relationships than I have.

And note -again- that there is no insinuation on my part of anything else. It almost seems that you approach every discussion as a battle, where in fact we are getting dangerously close to actually answering the OP's question. Why are there so few Thai men - Western woman couples: Because most Thai men do look like the guy walking into K-Bank on Pahon Yothin, or like a farmer, and only 0.00x% look like Bob Marley and manage to strike the right vibe that Western women may find exotic, free spirited and generally appealing. (Again 'Bob Marley' is visualising; someone can also strike the right vibe in personality or otherwise.)

And out of those 0.00x%, only 0.000y% remain who are marriage (long-term relationship) material.

(which I guess would qualify me as thinking myself "high and mighty" )

I did not say that. Some idiot said that. Could you stick a yellow post-it note to your screen that says "Note to self: Farang males are not a Borg-like entity of interconnected misogynistic conscience, but individual people, good and bad and in between." ?

Edited January 21, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[bonobo]

Only obliquely related to the OP, as I have never read any figures specifically concerning Thailand, men and women of different ethnic groups are far more and less likely to date/marry outside their own group.

In the US, studies have shown that Black men are the most likely to accept dating out of their demographic with the number at about 85%, if I recollect correctly. Only 5% of black women are willing to date outside their demographic (I do remember that figure.) Asian women, White men, and Jewish men and women are also likely to accept dating out of their groups.

If this holds true outside of the US, then there may be some validity to the idea that White men and Asian women are more apt to find each other acceptable than perhaps the reverse.

However, that is not a hard and fast rule. Large numbers of Asian men marry White women in the US, just not quite as high a number as White men and Asian women.

And when discussing Thailand, you really need to consider the bar scene environment. The men who are coming to Thailand for that are already predisposed towards Asian women. Men who prefer Latinas go to the Dominican or Costa Rica. Men who prefer Black women go to Africa. And men who prefer White women go to Eastern Europe for easily available commercial social interaction. The women in all of these groups are predisposed to money, not the men's demographic.

But as with all interactions, whether routed in commerce or not, sometimes things happen and a more permanent relationship is formed. The man in Thailand realizes he likes the life and marries his bargirl and stays. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But it skews the numbers somewhat.

Without any hard figures to back this up, I would imagine that the percentage of Western women who come to Thailand for other than a sexual escapade and who end up in a relationship with a Thai man to be the same if not greater than the percentage of Western men in the same boat who end up in a relationship with a Thai woman.

And this is only considering heterosexual relationships. With gay and lesbian Western men and women, what are the differences in them forming relationships with Thais? I have seen a number of lesbians who have come here strictly for a sexual adventure. Would their statistics match those of gay or straight men or straight women?

[chops]

Hardly any farang(not Russian) women visit Thailand. Mostly it's males. So Thai guys are not going to meet a whole lot of them.

Besides, most important factor is MONEY. Farang women are not interested in a Thai guy making 10,000 baht a month. It's just not gonna happen!

So, as a result, these unions just don't occur frequently.

Edited January 21, 2011 by bonobo
removed inflamatory comment

[sbk]

actually Sadie, the only bone I have to pick with WTK is his insistence on telling me what I am going to say next.

That's just basic debating; You never came out denying that, when you look at couples around you, the Thai man looks considerably more artistic than the average dude I might see walking into K-Bank on Pahon Yothin in Bangkok. (Yes, I'm visualising a lot, that's debating too)

So in my post on the previous page I put this in front of you, asking if you agreed or not, because you would have much more exposure to these relationships than I have.

And note -again- that there is no insinuation on my part of anything else. It almost seems that you approach every discussion as a battle, where in fact we are getting dangerously close to actually answering the OP's question. Why are there so few Thai men - Western woman couples: Because most Thai men do look like the guy walking into K-Bank on Pahon Yothin, or like a farmer, and only 0.00x% look like Bob Marley and manage to strike the right vibe that Western women may find exotic, free spirited and generally appealing.

(which I guess would qualify me as thinking myself "high and mighty" )

I did not say that. Some idiot said that. Could you stick a yellow post-it note to your screen that says "Note to self: Farang males are not a Borg-like entity of interconnected misogynistic conscience, but individual people, good and bad and in between." ?

Actually, no I don't think basic debating is telling someone what they are going to say next but if you think so, well good luck to you.

Anyway, no actually, I was going to disagree but was so flabbergasted by your assertion as to my thoughts and words that I was sidetracked. Apologies, but please, next time do not put words in my mouth, it is a pet peeve of mine and sure to annoy

Now, back to the subject. Lets see, I don't know if you would call my friends husbands middle class since many of them are generally too wealthy to be considered middle class but all live fairly rural lives. I have 3 friends, no make that 4 whose husbands OWN beach resorts. Then there is a woman married to an architect, another whose husband is a former Muay Thai champion and another whose husband is a chef. (yes, a proper chef). Truth be told, many of the girls you might see with what you consider a traditional thai man farang woman relationship are most likely just temporary gf's ala the bali story told earlier. Only a few long term ones, like Boo, fit into your stereotype and even then, if you met Mr. Boo, you would quickly realize that although appearance wise he may, in all other aspects he most certainly does not.

And while I guess you could say my husband is the beach/boat variety, that would be a tad ingenuous since he actually owns the resort on the beach he lives on and his boat is a powerboat. And he fishes daily but with a collection of expensive rods and reels that would be the envy of most western fishermen. Its a hobby, he loves it, so why not?

So, Winnie, I would like to turn around and ask you specifically, how many western women do you know personally in long term relationships with thai men? Not know of, not guess coz you see them somewhere but actually know?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Without any hard figures to back this up, I would imagine that the percentage of Western women who come to Thailand for other than a sexual escapade and who end up in a relationship with a Thai man to be the same if not greater than the percentage of Western men in the same boat who end up in a relationship with a Thai woman.

Very interesting comment. So what you're saying is that when you take out the sex-tourist / sexpat group, you're left with a group of 'normal' (for lack of a better term) Western men that's not much bigger than the group of Western women?

That's worth pondering. I don't think it's true though. Speaking from personal experience and observation, just about any Western man who still has a pulse will find scores of eligible Thai women as potential dates / partners. And that's without setting a foot in tourist-Thailand or going online. (When going online the time taken to find a date drops to mere minutes.. I could click that little green Skype icon and set myself to 'available' and have a date in time for dinner. It's a much greater challenge for a Western man to remain single in Thailand than it is to get into a relationship..

And this is only considering heterosexual relationships. With gay and lesbian Western men and women, what are the differences in them forming relationships with Thais? I have seen a number of lesbians who have come here strictly for a sexual adventure. Would their statistics match those of gay or straight men or straight women?

Well, again it looks quite obvious that Western men who are gay find very fertile ground in Thailand. Western women who are gay.. . . . not so much. I did meet a few, all very interesting. (If there are any reading this, I do have some advice. )

[DP25]

Hardly any farang(not Russian) women visit Thailand.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Try leaving your beer bar once in a while.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Anyway, no actually, I was going to disagree but was so flabbergasted by your assertion as to my thoughts and words that I was sidetracked. Apologies, but please, next time do not put words in my mouth, it is a pet peeve of mine and sure to annoy

Then I apologize; I did not mean to put words in your mouth, but rather get back to the point in the discussion where we were at before some idiot jumped in, then you replied to the idiot which is fine, but at that point I wanted to rewind to where we were. (Post #79, which ended in a question. Then thaiman jumped in and derailed everything, so in my post #84 (the one where I put words in your mouth) I tried to get back to the question at the end of #79, as a 'Where were we ...." by saying:

Agreed; and let's also agree to ignore Thaiman's statement which I really don't agree with, to put it mildly.

Back on topic: You were about to claim that most Western women (as opposed to typical Western men) do actually marry successful middle class Thai people. And not the cliche of the boat/bar/bungalow/tattoo artist/long-haired-guitar-dude type.

So with some delay, we did get there:

Now, back to the subject. Lets see, I don't know if you would call my friends husbands middle class since many of them are generally too wealthy to be considered middle class but all live fairly rural lives. I have 3 friends, no make that 4 whose husbands OWN beach resorts. Then there is a woman married to an architect, another whose husband is a former Muay Thai champion and another whose husband is a chef. (yes, a proper chef).

Thank you. And it makes sense too, to distinguish between beach-flings by tourists and women who are committed to Thaland long term. That's interesting too, because the difference is less noticeable with Western men. (Or at least, it seems to me that way.)

( I'm going to assume here that your 3-4 friends are representative of most Western women who live in Thailand long term. You didn't state that specifically, but I suppose it's implied. )

Sbk wrote: And while I guess you could say my husband is the beach/boat variety, that would be a tad ingenuous since he actually owns the resort on the beach he lives on and his boat is a powerboat. And he fishes daily but with a collection of expensive rods and reels that would be the envy of most western fishermen.

Of course; I'm not that dense.

Sbk wrote: So, Winnie, I would like to turn around and ask you specifically, how many western women do you know personally in long term relationships with thai men? Not know of, not guess coz you see them somewhere but actually know?

Four, five maybe. And most of those have moved on or I have otherwise lost contact. Note that this is the reason I asked you in the first place, because I realise you're in a much better position to comment on the topic than I am. You were so busy cracking Neanderthal-skulls and being sarky to almost everyone posting here that you didn't get around to writing up excellent perspectives.

Edited January 21, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[SadieMBeagle]

Now, back to the subject. Lets see, I don't know if you would call my friends husbands middle class since many of them are generally too wealthy to be considered middle class but all live fairly rural lives. I have 3 friends, no make that 4 whose husbands OWN beach resorts. Then there is a woman married to an architect, another whose husband is a former Muay Thai champion and another whose husband is a chef. (yes, a proper chef). Truth be told, many of the girls you might see with what you consider a traditional thai man farang woman relationship are most likely just temporary gf's ala the bali story told earlier. Only a few long term ones, like Boo, fit into your stereotype and even then, if you met Mr. Boo, you would quickly realize that although appearance wise he may, in all other aspects he most certainly does not.

Okay, this is interesting. Are the wives of these resort-owning Thais farang, or Thai themselves? I'd venture a guess that they are Thai women. Mind you, I can only speak from my own experiences, but where I live (Chiang Mai) there are not a lot of middle or upper class *that I know* Thai men who will consort with farang women (there are probably some that I don't know; CM is small, but not that small!). Nearly all the Thai man/western woman couples I see in Chiang Mai are comprised of the early 20-something, headscarf-wearing, long-hair with fisherman's pants variety (and I'm talking about the man and the woman!). Does this mean these guys or girls aren't middle or upper class? Of course not. But going on appearances alone, I'd guess not. I work in an office setting with lots and lots of Thai men, and I don't think many, if any, of them would date a farang. Family pressures, maybe? Now I'm descending into speculation, which has no place this discussion IMO.

In fact, I think the OP has long since fled the thread in fear of what she has created

[bonobo]

[

Very interesting comment. So what you're saying is that when you take out the sex-tourist / sexpat group, you're left with a group of 'normal' (for lack of a better term) Western men that's not much bigger than the group of Western women?

.....

Well, again it looks quite obvious that Western men who are gay find very fertile ground in Thailand. Western women who are gay.. . . . not so much. I did meet a few, all very interesting. (If there are any reading this, I do have some advice. )

No, you misunderstood me. I think there are many more "normal" Western men in Thailand than Western women if for no other reason than companies tend to hire men more than women. (Then there is the golf crowd, the muay thai crowd, the fishing crowd, and the Buddhist crowd, all areas in which there are more men.) But of those men and women, I think the percentage of women who find Thai partners would be similar to the percentage of Thai men.

As far as lesbians, I think their options are just as great as for any other group.

[sbk]

Now, back to the subject. Lets see, I don't know if you would call my friends husbands middle class since many of them are generally too wealthy to be considered middle class but all live fairly rural lives. I have 3 friends, no make that 4 whose husbands OWN beach resorts. Then there is a woman married to an architect, another whose husband is a former Muay Thai champion and another whose husband is a chef. (yes, a proper chef). Truth be told, many of the girls you might see with what you consider a traditional thai man farang woman relationship are most likely just temporary gf's ala the bali story told earlier. Only a few long term ones, like Boo, fit into your stereotype and even then, if you met Mr. Boo, you would quickly realize that although appearance wise he may, in all other aspects he most certainly does not.

Okay, this is interesting. Are the wives of these resort-owning Thais farang, or Thai themselves? I'd venture a guess that they are Thai women. Mind you, I can only speak from my own experiences, but where I live (Chiang Mai) there are not a lot of middle or upper class *that I know* Thai men who will consort with farang women (there are probably some that I don't know; CM is small, but not that small!). Nearly all the Thai man/western woman couples I see in Chiang Mai are comprised of the early 20-something, headscarf-wearing, long-hair with fisherman's pants variety (and I'm talking about the man and the woman!). Does this mean these guys or girls aren't middle or upper class? Of course not. But going on appearances alone, I'd guess not. I work in an office setting with lots and lots of Thai men, and I don't think many, if any, of them would date a farang. Family pressures, maybe? Now I'm descending into speculation, which has no place this discussion IMO.

In fact, I think the OP has long since fled the thread in fear of what she has created

Sorry guess it wasn't clear I was responding to the WTK's question about my farang women friends. Not sure why would I talk about thai women with thai husbands in a thread about farang women married to thai men but yes, they are all farang.

[tomassino]

"In Taiwan I was explained that Chinese boys tend to be over protected by their chinese mother and grow up to be quite chauvinistic ego-centered and selfish which is not really sought after by western girls.

Also the first son get to stay in the family house and its spouse should look after his ageing super bully mother, which often makes the western wife run away.

And last, Chinese are reluctant to have their family blood mixed with foreign ones. If they did not mind so much their daughter marrying a western man since, in their mind, she would "belong" to her husband's family, having their son's genes mixed with western ones would definately spoil the family line."

The explanations you got in Taiwan weren't terribly good and I suppose that the explanations here won't be, either.

[aneliane]

"In Taiwan I was explained that Chinese boys tend to be over protected by their chinese mother and grow up to be quite chauvinistic ego-centered and selfish which is not really sought after by western girls.

Also the first son get to stay in the family house and its spouse should look after his ageing super bully mother, which often makes the western wife run away.

And last, Chinese are reluctant to have their family blood mixed with foreign ones. If they did not mind so much their daughter marrying a western man since, in their mind, she would "belong" to her husband's family, having their son's genes mixed with western ones would definately spoil the family line."

The explanations you got in Taiwan weren't terribly good and I suppose that the explanations here won't be, either.

At least the explanation I got in taiwan were curltural and refered to tradition, behaviourism, deeply rooted in the culture, that I could verify later on, as I got to know the culture a bit better.

Sorry I have not everything that has been written on this post and I thnak you everyone for participating ... it looks like the ball got rolling afterall

[mark45y]

Well my blood line has certainly been sullied. Daughter number one married a Canadian. The family was aghast. Daughter number two went to college in Japan and her views on Japanese men are not fit to print here. Gadzooks she came back home and married a Canadian too! Daughter number three was seriously dating a Korean man and I gave her a sword for Christmas (she was into martial arts).

The moral of my story is watch out for those Canadians.