Buddhism - How Many Of You Really Care?

[PatientObserver]

My girlfriend is Buddhist. What a surprise. She is (to my knowledge) very devout. I am from the USA.

In my country, no matter her faith, I would say, "OK, up to you." HaHaHa. TIT. Funny irony.

The reality is, no matter her religion or faith, I won't share it as mine. Long story short.....agnostic.... This is a sticking point with us.

That aside, how do you folks deal with your partner's faith?

How many of you make Buddhist overtures?

How many made religous overtures in your home country? With past significant others?

How many just don't give a crap about religion or faith?

How has Buddha affected your life together?

We are contemplating marriage. No problem for me. Problem for her. She is worried that I don't have ENOUGH of a spiritual platform.

I know this a long essay question. I appreciate any responses.

[fxm88]

Deal with it the same way you dealt with it in the USA: ignore it when you can, be polite about it when you can't. It should be easier over here cause 1) you probably can't understand what your GF/the monks/the other folks are saying and 2) they're not so offensive about it e.g. huge crosses, billboards, folks knocking on your door or chatting you up in the supermarket/gym/street, etc. so common in the USA.

Of course if you're in the country or near a Wat and they start blasting at 5am it's a little harder to ignore. But still it's easier to fall back asleep when you don't understand a word they're saying.

Hard as it may be I suggest you don't tell too many people you're "mai mee sasanaa" -- *if* they believed you they'd shun you quicker than a boyscout with lesbian parents.

[sabaijai]

We are contemplating marriage. No problem for me. Problem for her. She is worried that I don't have ENOUGH of a spiritual platform.

Part of this may be that in traditional Thai social norms (which one could argue, few people follow today, but the norm is still there in the background), when someone outside the culture marries someone inside the culture (Thai Buddhist in this case, but it also applies to Thai muslim or Thai christian - tho again not everyone believes this), you're expected to khao reet, 'enter the tradition' by proclaiming yourself nominally Buddhist (or muslim, etc).

Most western spouses do it without fuss. If you're really agnostic, you'll go through the motions.

If you make a fuss about it, I'd say it then becomes *your* problem.

[PatientObserver]

Appreciate the quick feedback... She doesn't really believe my agnosticism... I will support whatever belief she has... Doesn't make it mine... I am in awe of her devout Buddhist belief... She has a similiar belief re me (i.e. I will eventually come to Buddha....or Christ, or Yah-We, or Allah, or....) and I can feel her, subtly, and not so subtly, pushing me towards Buddha....(because Buddha is the best of the choices!!!!)......

I can't see any of this standing in the way of us being together, however, it is a reality....

[Neeranam]

Maybe I have the wrong understanding of an agnostic, but can't an agnostic also practise Buddhist meditation?

[robitusson]

Maybe I have the wrong understanding of an agnostic, but can't an agnostic also practise Buddhist meditation?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To the best of my knowledge an agnostic is someone who maintains you can't prove whether or not there is a God...or it's someone who doesn't know whether there is a God or not. As opposed to an athiest who maintains there is definitely no God. So there's no reason why an agnostic or an atheist couldn't practice meditation. Buddhism does have a way of luring people in with it's secular appeal. Very sneaky.

[Dara]

We are contemplating marriage. No problem for me. Problem for her. She is worried that I don't have ENOUGH of a spiritual platform.

I know this a long essay question. I appreciate any responses. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IMHO, Buddhist Thais tend to be open minded about religeous believes and do not push anyone into Buddhism. However, I agree with fxm88 that Thais would tend to shun those who declare themselves as having no religeons.

Your girl friend may just want to make sure that you have a spiritual anchor in times of needs. In this case, you may want to explain to her that you were brought up as a Christian, and you are conducting your life based on high standard of social rules that are common to all religeons, but do not go for the the rituals that have dominated organized religeons.

BTW, K'Sabaijai - I think that "khao reet" is used only for Christians and Catholics..

[sabaijai]

BTW, K'Sabaijai - I think that "khao reet" is used only for Christians and Catholics..

It's used for muslims, too. According to McFarland, it means "to embrace another religion."

I borrowed it from the usual context (referring to conversion to monotheisms) to express the idea. According to a Thai friend whom I just asked, it makes sense even if uncommonly used to refer to Buddhist marriages.

BTW Catholics were Christians last time I checked ... unless you're a born-again fundamentalist.

Encyclopaedia definition of Christianity: "According to Adherents.com [1], Christianity is the world's most widely-practiced religion, with 2.1 billion adherents, including 1.1 billion Roman Catholics, 510 million Protestants in a number of traditions, 216 million Orthodox, 158 million Independents (unaffiliated with the major streams of Christianity), as well as 31.7 million belonging to other groups with less clear status (including Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons)."

[khunlungphudhu]

Patient Observer,

aside from posing your question, which is a good one, how much have you investigated the phylosophy behind your young lady's belief? Have you read anything on Buddhism? or are you just totally against religion and saviours per se?

I think a little light reading on the subject would greatly enhance your comprehension of your girl friend's beliefs, and may soften your stance a little.

Edited October 5, 2005 by khunlungphudhu

[Abandon]

Maybe I have the wrong understanding of an agnostic, but can't an agnostic also practise Buddhist meditation?

To the best of my knowledge an agnostic is someone who maintains you can't prove whether or not there is a God...or it's someone who doesn't know whether there is a God or not. As opposed to an athiest who maintains there is definitely no God. So there's no reason why an agnostic or an atheist couldn't practice meditation. Buddhism does have a way of luring people in with it's secular appeal. Very sneaky.

atheism is a non-profit organisation

Groan ... hehe

[Dara]

BTW Catholics were Christians last time I checked ... unless you're a born-again fundamentalist.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In Thailand, however, they are recognized as 2 distinctive groups - Christians (คริสเตียน) is used for all Protestants and Catholics (คริสตัง) is used just for Catholics - I guess somewhere way back, someome made the distinction that had stuck.....

[fxm88]

atheism is a non-profit organisation

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, but this joke really doesn't work if you misspell "prophet".

[buadhai]

Although this may seem a little trite, it may help if you can look at Buddhism as a philosophy of life rather than a religion.

Try not to get hung up on the "trappings" of Buddhism. For many people, the sort of ritual associated with religious beliefs is an important part of feeling grounded and connected with that which they do not fully understand and cannot directly control. Your girlfriend may feel more comfortable with you as a person if you simply go through the motions. It will make you seem more a part of the group to which she feels she belongs.

On the other hand, whether or not you accept the more mystical aspects of Buddhism as practiced in Thailand, the philosophical aspects are worth a look.

No matter how you feel about religions in general, they all have something to teach us about the human condition and our relationship with our fellow beings.

In other words: relax, accept what you can and believe what you will.

How's all that for near total BS?

[cdnvic]

For "total BS" it was remarkably informative and true.

cv

[buadhai]

For "total BS" it was remarkably informative and true.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

tks --

[Nam Kao]

>>>> She is worried that I don't have ENOUGH of a spiritual platform.

Translated = not enough $$$

[cdnvic]

>>>> She is worried that I don't have ENOUGH of a spiritual platform.

Translated = not enough $$$

Keep it elsewhere, some of us actually have women who can take care of themselves and worry about things other than money.

cv

[chownah]

My girlfriend is Buddhist. What a surprise. She is (to my knowledge) very devout. I am from the USA.

..............

The reality is, no matter her religion or faith, I won't share it as mine. Long story short.....agnostic.... This is a sticking point with us.

............

We are contemplating marriage. No problem for me. Problem for her. She is worried that I don't have ENOUGH of a spiritual platform.

...............

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since Buddhist devoutness can take on many forms and since the extent of your 'spiritual platform' is unknown to me I will not try to answer your questions directly but instead offer the following:

Spiritual Platform: You say you are an agnostic so I would like to point out that spirituality is often completely independent of any notion of god or religion. One way to evaluate your spiritual platform is to think about the things you like in life and ask yourself if they are what bring you happiness, satisfaction, contentment, fulfillment, peace, etc. For instance, do you think that money will provide these things for you..or alcohol..or sex..or football..or power..or prestige..or etc. If you answer yes to this then your spiritual platform is probably not highly developed. I am not trying to judge anyone with this...but...IF you answer 'yes' to the above and your beloved answers 'no' then this can be a problem.

Buddhism as a Religion: G. Buddha was a man who lived along time ago. One day, after many years of research, he had a moment of inspiration concerning how the mind works. This new idea was tested by the experts in this field and they almost unanimously agreed that his new idea was correct. They developed a method for transfering this knowledge to people everywhere...this was a very difficult task at the time since there was no mass media...it was transferred orally. Of course, as with all oral traditions it is difficult to keep the message pure and alot of effort was taken to assure that the message would remain intact. The result of this effort is Buddhism. Buddhism has many many variations and some are probably 'purer' than others I guess. The Buddha made it very clear that he wanted people to decide for themselves if his methods work...he did not want people to rely on him to convince them...he said that his methods come from the nature of the mind which is accessable to all and each person must do the work themselves to determine if there is value in his methods for them. In short, Buddhism is a method for changing your life by learning about how your mind works....it has nothing to do with god or religion....in my opinion.

[PatientObserver]

Hope this reply reflects all responses and fills in a few gaps.....

First...Thank You (any and all) for taking the time to read and respond. Good to hear different voices and opinions....

Overriding point... I have no doubts my beloved will return to this earth as a higher life form. I am just as sure I will not... I truly believe that her belief is working for her...

As to MY religous upbringing (early years - Mom Influence / Dad Influence) Holy Roller Baptist (Mom) - ...Lot's of singing and beating of breasts and appeals to the Lord... (Dad influence), a somewhat austere, non-denominational, "We're all ######ed and going to hel_l" philosophy ....

College....Buddha is appealing...academically.... I'm familiar with the Noble Truths, the 8 Fold Path.....passingly... academically...

The reality is....pointblank...deep down...heart of hearts.... I'm not buying it...Any of it... We've had the talk...many times...

She truly agonizes over the state of my soul... And yet she is more than happy to give me crap about it over fried eggs, blueberry yogurt and tangerine juice.

In true Thai fashion (Up to You) she merely lays out her beliefs and expects the weight of her argument (and the blaze of her "Amazing Thailand" smile) to sway me.

I can't help but think that a large velvet (saffron-robed) hammer is headed my way...

[PatientObserver]

I should add the (non Donald) trump card... . Our spiritual difference is not a deal breaker, rather something that will obviously lead to much spirited discussion, family involvement, and (in private) many episodes of makeup sex (God Bless Buddha's grounding in the real world!!!)

Again, Thank You for everybody's responses...

[thaibebop]

Having studied mostly Zen I have to say that Buddhism for me a way to live my life. I don't care about ghosts and what happens when I die, or forces greater than me that I can't control or may be able to beg to. None of these thing help in day to day life.