Rift Erupts In Thailand's Red-Shirt Movement

[mccw]

^ are u talking about the one from the monk about 100years ago who scrolled down the predictions about this 10year period where people come to see evil as good and good as bad and great suffering and death is to befall the country until an "angle" star woman of pure heart saves the day (she's due about 8 years from now apparently.

My missus has just been telling me all about it.

[rametindallas]

The red-shirts have a good chance of going the way of the yellow-shirts. Both organizations were formed for a singular purpose. Once the purpose is achieved (or the problem allieviated), they really have no reason to exist. They can try and find a cause, but this doesn't usually work well.

This has to do with group dynamics. Groups such as these have a short shelf-life. That can be reconstituted if need be, however.

Enteresting

[mccw]

^ I could see how the prophesy might refer to a royalist revival in support of the current princes after a painful period of thaksin one party republic

[rametindallas]

It's always difficult to make the blind see.

it is a bit like history when the nazi party had the SA after they came to power the Brown shirts were all put to the wall (the night ogf the generals)

Actually, the purging of the SA was called Night of Long Knives see Wikipedia. TNotLK was a horror only a Hitler, Mao, or Stalin could be capable of. Please don't compare ANY current players on the World stage with HItler or Nazism. It's wrong when Red Shirt Publications paint Hitler's mustache on Abihisit. I don't mean to scold you personally but everyone should be aware of the potential to discount the evil that Hitler was..

[rametindallas]

Right!!!!! Precisely what I'm trying to get over. He has lost control of the situation

Have you not seen all the stories about Peau Thai MPs flying to Dubai to get Thaksin's endorsement? How come they're not knocking on Yingluck's door? You also seem to be underestimating family pecking-order. The nong's always answer to the pii's in this country, don't you know that?

Where is this story about MP's flocking to Dubai? I've only heard it reported here by members. And, in this day and age why do they have to go personally when it's so obvious what they are doing and why they are going?

It's a bidding war and they added coalition partners to broaden the bidding pool. What do the think a cabinet minister's cut is worth? When a lowly civil servant or policeman want a pay rise or promotion; you think these are free? Merit based? Amplify that to a cabinet post and you cannot fathom what that is worth to holder and his 'associates'. You can't bid over the phone; too many ways to record.

[rametindallas]

A certain Philippine's politician - Benigno Simeon "Ninoy" Aquino, who on return from exile left the international airport in a box , maybe the same fate awaits a certain Thai politician who is currently in exile. Remember this is Thailand and it will sort it all out.

Are you suggesting Khun Yingluck will have her brother killed if he returns. Ninoy was killed by the government of Ferdinand Marcos. I can't imagine two more different situations than the ones that separate Dr. Thaksin and Mr. Aquino. Why don't you compare him to Nelson Mandella or Aung San Suu Kyi? There is no one in history like Dr. Taksin. He is an original. Will everyone stop comparing him to famous people we know even less about? Thank you in advance.

[MILT]

So they finally realize they were just being used. I don't like to repeat myself but again I suggest that the Thaskins supporters on this forum especially the posters that are realtivly new to Thailand will get to see the Thaskin mind at work. Especially since he can see the light at the end of the tunnel. No matter what rhetoric Yingluck or her cronies spew out in the media what is really going behind the scenes will be brought to light as they inch thier boy in Dubai back. It's nothing new in the strategy of the Thaskin dynasty. Watch and learn Thaskin/Yingluck lovers. Democarcy? Mandate, voted in a free and fair election? all just empty words Reviewing Thaskins conviction? Remember his money is just frozen not gone Would any of you walk away from billions of dollars you think is yours knowing that it is still within reach

[MILT]

A certain Philippine's politician - Benigno Simeon "Ninoy" Aquino, who on return from exile left the international airport in a box , maybe the same fate awaits a certain Thai politician who is currently in exile. Remember this is Thailand and it will sort it all out.

Are you suggesting Khun Yingluck will have her brother killed if he returns. Ninoy was killed by the government of Ferdinand Marcos. I can't imagine two more different situations than the ones that separate Dr. Thaksin and Mr. Aquino. Why don't you compare him to Nelson Mandella or Aung San Suu Kyi? There is no one in history like Dr. Taksin. He is an original. Will everyone stop comparing him to famous people we know even less about? Thank you in advance.

Thaskin is far from original. There is a book you all should read, (Thaskin obviously has read it) "OVERTHROW" Author Stephen Kinzer It is a very good read if you are interested in how things really work in a democarcy San Suu Kyi Nelson mandela Bit of a stretch don't you think?

Edited July 7, 2011 by MILT

[rametindallas]

Do you really believe this will happen - jump on the "tedium" bandwaggon you may, but I think you will be disappointed when it doesn't happen as the situation is so different to before and not conducive to promoting a coup!!! Unless.......Yingluck attempts to bring her brother back when he's better of in a majority of people's minds being anywhere ELSE in the world rather than in Thailand as he raped it and ran for cover and people either knew this or are starting to appreciate it now. I don't think this will happen either as Yingluck is surely more savvy than this and must know that it will back fire big time should she attempt to make this happen!!!

You seem to be under the illusion that Little Sis has any say in how the country is run. Forget not who put her there and how she got there. Notice that all those Isaan MPs are flying to Dubai to negotiate for their position in the Pheua Thai cabinet. They're not hot-footing it down to BKK to talk to Yingy.

When you want a song, you talk to the organ grinder, not the monkey!

I'm saving that to my 'Quotes' list and I am giving you attribution. Thanks

Edited July 8, 2011 by rametindallas

[mccw]

^ he doesn't even need to go through the hassles of trying to reclaim what the court took. He could simply rape double that from the coffers on the national debt in a year or two. Expect some big loans to Cambodia for telecoms indastructure development; services supplied by siniwatra interests of course

Etc etc

Back to same as before but worse probably

[rametindallas]

A certain Philippine's politician - Benigno Simeon "Ninoy" Aquino, who on return from exile left the international airport in a box , maybe the same fate awaits a certain Thai politician who is currently in exile. Remember this is Thailand and it will sort it all out.

Are you suggesting Khun Yingluck will have her brother killed if he returns. Ninoy was killed by the government of Ferdinand Marcos. I can't imagine two more different situations than the ones that separate Dr. Thaksin and Mr. Aquino. Why don't you compare him to Nelson Mandella or Aung San Suu Kyi? There is no one in history like Dr. Taksin. He is an original. Will everyone stop comparing him to famous people we know even less about? Thank you in advance.

Thaskin is far from original. There is a book you all should read, (Thaskin obviously has read it) "OVERTHROW" Author Stephen Kinzer It is a very good read if you are interested in how things really work in a democarcy San Suu Kyi Nelson mandela Bit of a stretch don't you think?

I'm only quoting some of his Red Shirt media. If you've followed the news you would have noticed those very comparisons. Are you saying Aquino and Taksin are in any way alike?http://democracyforburma.wordpress.com/2010/11/15/thai-democrat-party-to-thaksin-shinawatra%e2%80%99s-statement-in-connection-with-the-release-of-aung-san-su-kyi/

Edited July 8, 2011 by rametindallas

[Gandalf8353]

My point, friends, is this. First, no, I am not a stupid uneducated denizen of Isaan. I can spell simple English.

Second, Thaksin is not the end all and be all of corruption. It exists everywhere. Please don't try to tell me that the former gov't and cronies weren't corrupt.

Third, a military coup is not the way to change leadership.

Fourth, being a "dumb" and "uneducated" country girl from Isaan, my wife has a better handle on English than I have seen on many forums that are in English, including this one. So, intelligence and education must be relative.

Fifth, if Thailand is a democracy then the will of the people should be followed. Yingluck was elected by the majority of Thais, most outside the "well off" and "educated" and "elitist" areas of the country. The majority of Thais favored her over the status quo.

Be that stupid, uneducated, or whatever, unless a government propped up by the military is what everyone wants then I would think that this would be a moot point.

[ratcatcher]

A certain Philippine's politician - Benigno Simeon "Ninoy" Aquino, who on return from exile left the international airport in a box , maybe the same fate awaits a certain Thai politician who is currently in exile. Remember this is Thailand and it will sort it all out.

Are you suggesting Khun Yingluck will have her brother killed if he returns. Ninoy was killed by the government of Ferdinand Marcos. I can't imagine two more different situations than the ones that separate Dr. Thaksin and Mr. Aquino. Why don't you compare him to Nelson Mandella or Aung San Suu Kyi? There is no one in history like Dr. Taksin. He is an original. Will everyone stop comparing him to famous people we know even less about? Thank you in advance.

"Why don't we compare Thaksin to Nelson Mandela or The Lady"?

Because there's no comparison to be made Not a stretch of the imagination, just absurd.

Mandela and The Lady have spent many years of their lives in detention by brutal regimes.

Thaksin on the other hand, has spent the last years flitting from one luxurious hiding place to another. Time in jail for him ? Not a minute and never will be.

"No-one in history like Dr.Thaksin" ? Got that right. A legend in his own mind.

[waza]

Thaskin said he will be back in November, for the wedding.

[whybother]

Have to really laugh at the insinuation that those who voted in Yingluck are "stupid", "undeducated", "morons", "losers". All elitist fingers point to Isaan. It wasn't just Isaan that voted her in, it was most of the rest of the country uninhabited by those elitists who feel that they always know what is best for everyone else. Someone mentioned the Arab spring. The Arab spring was the result of dictatorial regimes who used the military to crush legal and legitimate protest, also young people who were educated and willing to work, but the government was too busy making enormous profits off the backs of the people. The former President of Egypt was worth billions. Sound familiar?

"All elitist fingers point to Isaan. It wasn't just Isaan that voted her in, it was most of the rest of the country uninhabited by those elitists who feel that they always know what is best for everyone else."

Actually, it WAS mainly Isaan that voted her in - and the North. A third of the seats in Bangkok and none in the south.

The Arab Spring was protests against individuals that had been in power for up to 30 years.

[whybother]

I'm only quoting some of his Red Shirt media. If you've followed the news you would have noticed those very comparisons. Are you saying Aquino and Taksin are in any way alike?http://democracyforb...ung-san-su-kyi/

The problem is, you're actually believing the "red shirt media".

[whybother]

My point, friends, is this. First, no, I am not a stupid uneducated denizen of Isaan. I can spell simple English.

Second, Thaksin is not the end all and be all of corruption. It exists everywhere. Please don't try to tell me that the former gov't and cronies weren't corrupt.

Third, a military coup is not the way to change leadership.

Fourth, being a "dumb" and "uneducated" country girl from Isaan, my wife has a better handle on English than I have seen on many forums that are in English, including this one. So, intelligence and education must be relative.

Fifth, if Thailand is a democracy then the will of the people should be followed. Yingluck was elected by the majority of Thais, most outside the "well off" and "educated" and "elitist" areas of the country. The majority of Thais favored her over the status quo.

Be that stupid, uneducated, or whatever, unless a government propped up by the military is what everyone wants then I would think that this would be a moot point.

Given Thaksin was only the care-taker PM at the time of the coup, and there were elections about 12 months after it, the coup wasn't so much designed to change the leadership, as to set a few more ground rules so that the leader couldn't subvert the checks and balances as Thaksin was doing.

Yingluck wasn't elected by the majority of Thais, but her party did get a majority of seats, which gives her the right to form government.

I'm glad you think that the south is "well off", "educated" and "elitist", because the PTP failed to get a single seat south of Bangkok.

[Gandalf8353]

My point, friends, is this. First, no, I am not a stupid uneducated denizen of Isaan. I can spell simple English.

Second, Thaksin is not the end all and be all of corruption. It exists everywhere. Please don't try to tell me that the former gov't and cronies weren't corrupt.

Third, a military coup is not the way to change leadership.

Fourth, being a "dumb" and "uneducated" country girl from Isaan, my wife has a better handle on English than I have seen on many forums that are in English, including this one. So, intelligence and education must be relative.

Fifth, if Thailand is a democracy then the will of the people should be followed. Yingluck was elected by the majority of Thais, most outside the "well off" and "educated" and "elitist" areas of the country. The majority of Thais favored her over the status quo.

Be that stupid, uneducated, or whatever, unless a government propped up by the military is what everyone wants then I would think that this would be a moot point.

Given Thaksin was only the care-taker PM at the time of the coup, and there were elections about 12 months after it, the coup wasn't so much designed to change the leadership, as to set a few more ground rules so that the leader couldn't subvert the checks and balances as Thaksin was doing.

Yingluck wasn't elected by the majority of Thais, but her party did get a majority of seats, which gives her the right to form government.

I'm glad you think that the south is "well off", "educated" and "elitist", because the PTP failed to get a single seat south of Bangkok.

The south is another kettle of fish altogether. We both know it.

[whybother]

...

Yingluck wasn't elected by the majority of Thais, but her party did get a majority of seats, which gives her the right to form government.

I'm glad you think that the south is "well off", "educated" and "elitist", because the PTP failed to get a single seat south of Bangkok.

The south is another kettle of fish altogether. We both know it.

The south is more than the 3 provinces near the Malaysian border.

"PTP failed to get a single seat south of Bangkok."

Edited July 8, 2011 by whybother

[animatic]

Do you really believe this will happen - jump on the "tedium" bandwaggon you may, but I think you will be disappointed when it doesn't happen as the situation is so different to before and not conducive to promoting a coup!!! Unless.......Yingluck attempts to bring her brother back when he's better of in a majority of people's minds being anywhere ELSE in the world rather than in Thailand as he raped it and ran for cover and people either knew this or are starting to appreciate it now. I don't think this will happen either as Yingluck is surely more savvy than this and must know that it will back fire big time should she attempt to make this happen!!!

You seem to be under the illusion that Little Sis has any say in how the country is run. Forget not who put her there and how she got there. Notice that all those Isaan MPs are flying to Dubai to negotiate for their position in the Pheua Thai cabinet. They're not hot-footing it down to BKK to talk to Yingy.

When you want a song, you talk to the organ grinder, not the monkey!

I'm saving that to my 'Quotes' list and I am giving you attribution. Thanks

Great quote, but maybe someone beat him too it in medieval Romania

http://renaissancero...-to-the-monkey/

Jennifer Hoffman, March 21, 2011 www.urielheals.com

There's an old saying, 'If you don't like the music don't waste your breath on the monkey." It refers to the organ grinder who played music while a pet monkey danced. Talking to the monkey about the music that was playing didn't do any good because the monkey was not in charge of the music, that was the organ grinder's job. ....

http://www.usingengl...the+monkey.html

[animatic]

Have to really laugh at the insinuation that those who voted in Yingluck are "stupid", "undeducated", "morons", "losers". All elitist fingers point to Isaan. It wasn't just Isaan that voted her in, it was most of the rest of the country uninhabited by those elitists who feel that they always know what is best for everyone else. Someone mentioned the Arab spring. The Arab spring was the result of dictatorial regimes who used the military to crush legal and legitimate protest, also young people who were educated and willing to work, but the government was too busy making enormous profits off the backs of the people. The former President of Egypt was worth billions. Sound familiar?

"All elitist fingers point to Isaan. It wasn't just Isaan that voted her in, it was most of the rest of the country uninhabited by those elitists who feel that they always know what is best for everyone else."

Actually, it WAS mainly Isaan that voted her in - and the North. A third of the seats in Bangkok and none in the south.

The Arab Spring was protests against individuals that had been in power for up to 30 years.

Which not coincidentally was the easiest place to control the flow of information

and build a legend for Thakin.

[DumFarang]

Have to really laugh at the insinuation that those who voted in Yingluck are "stupid", "undeducated", "morons", "losers". All elitist fingers point to Isaan. It wasn't just Isaan that voted her in, it was most of the rest of the country uninhabited by those elitists who feel that they always know what is best for everyone else. Someone mentioned the Arab spring. The Arab spring was the result of dictatorial regimes who used the military to crush legal and legitimate protest, also young people who were educated and willing to work, but the government was too busy making enormous profits off the backs of the people. The former President of Egypt was worth billions. Sound familiar?

They got a majority of the country and the seats but look up a map of the red provinces. The entire south starting with south of Bangkok went to the Dems or one of the lesser parties while the entire north went PTP or a lesser party. Northern Thailand just happens to be the majority so the PTP has proven quite clever all along to make that their base of power.

[DumFarang]

Semen's should read cements

Yeah but "semen's" is a lot funnier!

[DumFarang]

^ are u talking about the one from the monk about 100years ago who scrolled down the predictions about this 10year period where people come to see evil as good and good as bad and great suffering and death is to befall the country until an "angle" star woman of pure heart saves the day (she's due about 8 years from now apparently.

My missus has just been telling me all about it.

Most Thai people keep their lips sealed about that. I can't get anything out of my wife about it.

[DumFarang]

It's always difficult to make the blind see.

it is a bit like history when the nazi party had the SA after they came to power the Brown shirts were all put to the wall (the night ogf the generals)

Actually, the purging of the SA was called Night of Long Knives see Wikipedia. TNotLK was a horror only a Hitler, Mao, or Stalin could be capable of. Please don't compare ANY current players on the World stage with HItler or Nazism. It's wrong when Red Shirt Publications paint Hitler's mustache on Abihisit. I don't mean to scold you personally but everyone should be aware of the potential to discount the evil that Hitler was..

Agreed. He was an evil, bigoted, genius, and a country has to screw majorly for someone like that to seize power. The closest thing in decades has been Saddam Hussein who idolized Stalin and modeled much of the Baath party's ethos after Stalin's brand of communism.

[DumFarang]

So they finally realize they were just being used. I don't like to repeat myself but again I suggest that the Thaskins supporters on this forum especially the posters that are realtivly new to Thailand will get to see the Thaskin mind at work. Especially since he can see the light at the end of the tunnel. No matter what rhetoric Yingluck or her cronies spew out in the media what is really going behind the scenes will be brought to light as they inch thier boy in Dubai back. It's nothing new in the strategy of the Thaskin dynasty. Watch and learn Thaskin/Yingluck lovers. Democarcy? Mandate, voted in a free and fair election? all just empty words Reviewing Thaskins conviction? Remember his money is just frozen not gone Would any of you walk away from billions of dollars you think is yours knowing that it is still within reach

Good point, but at this stage I think this means more to Thaksin than just his frozen assets alone. It's quite personal as well, but of course he'll gladly take back the billions of baht too.

[whybother]

Have to really laugh at the insinuation that those who voted in Yingluck are "stupid", "undeducated", "morons", "losers". All elitist fingers point to Isaan. It wasn't just Isaan that voted her in, it was most of the rest of the country uninhabited by those elitists who feel that they always know what is best for everyone else. Someone mentioned the Arab spring. The Arab spring was the result of dictatorial regimes who used the military to crush legal and legitimate protest, also young people who were educated and willing to work, but the government was too busy making enormous profits off the backs of the people. The former President of Egypt was worth billions. Sound familiar?

They got a majority of the country and the seats but look up a map of the red provinces. The entire south starting with south of Bangkok went to the Dems or one of the lesser parties while the entire north went PTP or a lesser party. Northern Thailand just happens to be the majority so the PTP has proven quite clever all along to make that their base of power.

Actually, the Dems got a few seats along the lower North West, and in the Central areas and also (one?) in the lower North East on the Cambodian border.

[DumFarang]

My point, friends, is this. First, no, I am not a stupid uneducated denizen of Isaan. I can spell simple English.

Second, Thaksin is not the end all and be all of corruption. It exists everywhere. Please don't try to tell me that the former gov't and cronies weren't corrupt.

Third, a military coup is not the way to change leadership.

Fourth, being a "dumb" and "uneducated" country girl from Isaan, my wife has a better handle on English than I have seen on many forums that are in English, including this one. So, intelligence and education must be relative.

Fifth, if Thailand is a democracy then the will of the people should be followed. Yingluck was elected by the majority of Thais, most outside the "well off" and "educated" and "elitist" areas of the country. The majority of Thais favored her over the status quo.

Be that stupid, uneducated, or whatever, unless a government propped up by the military is what everyone wants then I would think that this would be a moot point.

I haven't read anything on here that insinuates any posters supported the military coup. However, the vast majority have clearly stated that laying the scepter this close to Thaksin's grasp represents a clear lack of good judgement. Maybe you should scroll back and read some more posts to gain a better insight as to the opinion of the Shinawatra family on display here.

[Soutpeel]

"Why don't we compare Thaksin to Nelson Mandela or The Lady"?

Because there's no comparison to be made Not a stretch of the imagination, just absurd.

Mandela and The Lady have spent many years of their lives in detention by brutal regimes.

Actually the comparision with Mandela is not absurd.....both Thaksin and Mandala were prepared to and did use violence against civilians to acheive their aims,Thaksin has been accused of terrorism and Manadela was convicted of terrorism, and in his final years of imprisonment lived under house arrest in a very nice property in a suburb of Cape Town, while Thaksin is in exile/or the run (which ever term you prefer) in a nice house in Dubai

I think the key difference between the two is that Mandela was smart enough to realise that there had to reconcilation in South Africa to avert a civil war and that a "dictatorship" type goverment (as in the case in a lot of Africa) was not the way, while Thaksin I believe, is not smart enough to realise this or doesnt care and is only interested in feathering his own/familes nest and is quite prepared to do this to the detriment of the Thai population....shall we not forget his intention to use Thai peoples money in an attempt to buy Liverpool FC, this was not for the benefit of the Thai people but to stroke his own ego...

[webfact]

Natthawut: UDD remains united

BANGKOK, 8 July 2011 (NNT) – Secretary-General to the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) Natthawut Saikua downplays the rumoured disunity among the key figures of the group, saying that discussion will be held soon to iron out their differences.

According to Mr Natthawut, the UDD core figures just have different viewpoints in working directions, which can normally happen in any big organisation with a lot of members; however, he confirmed that there is no disunity among them at all.

The secretary-general noted that he had already talked with UDD Acting Chairperson Thida Thavornsret, as well as the other three core leaders, Mr. Chinnawat Haboonpad, Mr Suporn Atthawong and Mr. Visa Khanthap, and the four would soon be invited to discuss the issue together again.

Mr Natthawut added that Ms Thida would remain the acting head of the UDD.

Regarding the allocation of ministerial posts in the new cabinet, Mr Natthawut, as a Pheu Thai MP candidate, said that both he and another MP candidate Jatuporn Prompan would neither set conditions nor negotiate for any posts. He stressed that they would respect and follow the party’s resolutions.

The remark has been made amid criticism and discussion whether UDD key figures, especially Mr Natthawut and Mr Jatuporn, who are elected Pheu Thai MPs, should be given ministerial posts in the new administration led by incoming Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra.

-- NNT 2011-07-08