Sitting here earlier about 9pm and the gf is knocking on the door saying someone has jumped out of the building, second case in 6 months as it happens. I went downstairs to my mates room who overlooks the tennis courts where the person landed, ashamedly I have to say voyeuristicly (that a word?) and he was pretty upset as the kid was someone he'd spoke to a few times and just moved in the building maybe 6 months ago.

Horrible tragedy was this kid was just 19 yrs old, from France, had a job in Bangkok, had just come back from a 10 day holiday in France to see his folks, and spent the long holiday weekend in Koh Chang sunning it up. Come back to Bangkok, went to work today, come home and jumped out of the 19th floor appartment he had.

I just don't get it, last time my mate spoke to him he was saying he wasn't sure about staying in Bangkok or going to France, he had job options in both and seemed pretty happy though the quiet type. He wasn't a heavy drinker, didn't look like he was into drugs and had not been in Thailand long enough to get into that depressive state many long term expats often find themselves in. I see him down the swimming pool a few times a week, he kept in shape and though I only said 'Hello' to him once he often made eye contact with me as if wanting a chat but as usual wrapped up in my own stupid life and I didn't really make time for a chat with him which I f.ucking regret now.

I can understand how some of these farangs top themselves, middle aged, cashed out, home ties burned, not much going for them and been living long enough to have a lifetime of sh1t, enough to make themselves to kill themselves, but I just don't understand how this young healthy 19 yr old come home today and threw himself to such a violent death. He was the kind of young kid that you would have just looked at and thought 'lucky sod', a newbie out here, young, working, opprtunities and a life ahead of him but today for some reason he just climbed up on that balcony and said 'f.uck it' to the world.

I've been sitting downstairs with my mate having a few beers and its a mystery. I know you never know whats going on in peoples heads or anything about his past life, but really, there's gotta be another way out of it than that for this young life. After a while I went to my mates balcony and looked over, poor kid in a pool of blood, his head must've been in a turmoil we never knew about.

Just wanted to get this out coz heads a bit messy now and this story will no doubt be in the Thai news clippings tomorrow and a lot of ######s on here will be taking the p.iss out of this kids suicide. Half the reason I brought it to bedlam really, I can't deal with some of the <deleted> on this forum sometimes.

I spose I know the answer and that is we will never know, but it has to be said, Thailand can alienate people sometimes, just because its foreign to our homeland, and I'm sure even those of us that have settled here have felt that distance from our family, from our old friends and do feel at a loss, I just hope that no one takes it to the level this kid, 'John' his name was, did today.

I'm also like many expats here that don't bother making an effort to chat to many people, not because I'm stuck up about farangs or anything, but I enjoy the solitude that living here gives me, I don't need to socially interact but maybe this kid did.

I just feel that maybe if I'd made that bit extra effort it might have saved his family a lot of heartache and if you do see someone in Thailand that looks like they want or need a chat, then have a chat, it can get too lonely for farangs out here at times and it doesn't hurt to give 5 minutes of your time to say 'hello'. Its often the other farang in the building, or mooban or village or whatever that is the closest things to family and friends and family back home, simply because we are to a certain degree in the same boat whether you been here 15 weeks or 15 years. And I mean that on this forum too, lets get a bit more support out there to people who need it.

I read a post in the ladies forum about a girl being beaten by her bf or husband, poor girl has to turn to us lot, strangers on an internet forum to get help, wheres her family and friends, maybe she thinks they wont understand her but as fellow expats we can? We can all offer a little time and help to those in need and I know plenty of Thai people need help too, and I've never been one for 'all farangs stick together' before, but it does hurt to reach out to someone who might only be able to turn to a fellow farng to support simply because they are new to the country and can't quite connect with the Thais enough yet to get the support they would otherwise hopefully have back home.

Tragic sh1t which I'm sure shouldn't have happened or may have been prevented.

Sorry, I knows its a bit of a waffling post, bit mashed now and thoughts just coming to my head.

Is there any kind of counselling/samaritans kind of thing set up for farangs in Thailand? coz its definately a mixed up lot of people that choose to live in this country amongst all the others and young kids like that shouldn't be dying so easily.

As a footnote, if or when this does hit the thaivisa news tomorrow then please dont ref this thread to add info or fuel to the ######ers out there that just wanna laugh this situation up.

edit: just wanna say topic title probaly dont make much sense, it was first thing I thought of but probably the wrong question really.

//Edit: I just modified the title a little bit - RDN

Unreal...don't know what to say there madness.

What could make a 19 year old snuff himself is beyond me.

Obviously, something heavy went down with his family when he went home

and he was carrying that.

You're doing the right thing by 'talking it out' and I'm sure you and the rest of

the building will go thru some sh1t before it's all over.

All the best,

BM

Rest of the building dont give a shit Boon Mee, One ######er went down there and took a picture, I see him viewing it outside my mates room, spose to make sure he got the good blood splattered shot, though the guy is a bit of a mental case so cant say much to him.

Man all the families from the next soi coming to watch, and I'm guilty too, I went to have a look and only really felt like a c.unt when I knew who it was, but families out there with their kids, horrible sight too.

I spose thats the buddhism thing for you though, cant blame people for that.

He spoke to my mate when he came back from France and before he went to Koh Chang, said he had a good time and all that, just working out his options. Of course you just cant know whats going on in someones head.

Yeah, sorry, bad thing to say that they dont give a shit, just sometimes you feel a bit of a connection with someone sometimes, and think 'no worries, chat to him later' and all that. If it was someone I never seen ebfore I doubt I would give a sh1t to be honest, just confusion, you'd think a 19 yr old farang guy would have a few more options or something. I mean if you hate Thailand, then fly home, if you have no money, better to rob a bank than suicide right?

I've been depressed and f.ucked up many a time before, but its always been so far away from suicide. I just dont get the thought process that went through this poor kids head before he climbed up on that balcony. And he was a good 20 ft from the side of the building, he must have really postioned himself and jumped, that takes time, wish he'd just stopped y'know, just taken a moment and stepped down. Wish I'd taken a second to say a few more words to him really not that I expect that it would have helped.

How can you feel that way so young? Second he went over the side, he must've regretted it, they say he screamed all the way down.

Obviously, something heavy went down with his family when he went home

and he was carrying that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I mean thats my thoughts man, he was esacping his life in France, maybe he was a depressive then, and comes to Thailand and gets depressed here and after that nowhere to go right? I can see him sitting alone, not totally comfortable, 40 sq metre appartment, thai tv on, he ordered his meals from downstairs everyday, and it has to be said, its a real alien culture for some especially with the language barrier and the feeling of being an outsider. Wished he'd just stayed home, might have had a chance.

Lot of people like this in Thailand, take a stroll down Sukhumvit 3am in the morning, lots of messed up people but at leats a bit older, had a few years to live or at least to get their head messed up to take that step.

19 yrs old, good looking guy really, healthy in the body, working, maybe legally, maybe not totally but with a bit of cash on him anyways. How you go from a hammock on Koh Chang 2 days ago to being quite literally a lump of meat in a shitty tennis court today, or wherever the ###### he is now?

Don't beat yourself up over it bkkmadness. You don't know what was going through this poor guy's head - money troubles, girl troubles, job troubles. You can't personally be expected to talk to every farang in your apartment and cheer them up, just in case they're feeling it bit down.

Take it easy - be happy for what you've got!

I wonder what the effect of someone with suicidal thoughts witnessing events like this would be. I've heard of suicide becoming "epidemic" in some communities where one kid would do it and it would start a whole string of incidents. You figure it would be a jolt of reality to the finality of the action and not the reverse.

Anyway BKK, sorry you had to witness this, I know it ain't easy.

cv

I appreciate what your saying RDN and you too Boon Mee thanks, just a bit of drink talking now. I'm a pretty much rational person, often mistaken for cold hearted really and not beating myself up over it too much, and at the end of the day, guilts not mine, no one knows why he done it to himself, speculations and reasons are abundant really, I mean how much can you know someone, just a bit shocked really. I'm not going to be hugging farang in the lift tomoz or anything and asking if they are feeling ok, but maybe a 'hello' or how r u' may be more appropriate in the future.

I mean I moan about shitty things, money, or work or the gf or whatever but we are living blessed lives here really, or at least most of us on this forum are. But just worth remembering that not everybody is that lives here and it doesn't take much to stop for a chat or whatever.

I know you cant look out for everyone and who knew this kid was on the edge of his mind but I dont know man, I just feel regret I didn't make an effort with this kid. Yeah, just writing as Im thinking, I know its stupid that tomoz Im saying 'hey, lets go out and make new farang friends just in case' it was just all a bit messy tonight. Poor parents, just see him last week.

As much as we all moan and bitch about our more often than not stupid problems u gotta know, we are doing ok.

That poor girl whos getting beaten up in the ladies forum, no one to turn to but us, thats a tragedy. I've always been lucky I spose, I always knew people either coming or going from Thailand or living here and got a lot of friends here but some people have nothing, and I'm sure its a pretty frightening country to stay in for them sometimes. Nowhere to turn for some people.

I cant get this image of this kid climbing on his balcony ledge out of my head now, how do people actually go through with that?

I have had two near acquaintances suicide on me. It is a terrible experience, always leaving you with all the feelings you have expressed of guilt and remorse, all complicated by the shear illogic of the action and your own inability to rationalize what is the ultimate irrational and selfish act.

You will never know, and more importantly, could never have known what turmoil drives someone to suicide. The whole nature of the act is a complete denial of human contact as a means of healing or bettering a situation.

Those I knew had all manner of contact available to them should thy have wished to use this positive way forward. The one was a father of three – a Frenchman – so caught up in the problems of losing face as he approached bankruptcy, that neither the loving care of his wife nor the responsibility of being a living father could hold him back from taking his own life. The other was an Indian teacher – female – who had grown children, one soon to be married. She was very attractive and always the life and soul of every party. All her colleagues, both male and female, loved her very much. Then suddenly, one day she took an overdose.

The reason I write this is to try to say to you, or anyone else who comes into contact with a suicide. There is absolutely nothing you could have done. The mind of a suicide is so complex and determined to complete this act, that by its nature, removes all contact, so you would never be aware of symptoms, and in most cases will be manipulated to hold you away from any suspicions whatsoever.

Those so-called potential suicides you hear about who seek help via the Samaritans or friends and acquaintances, are not real suicides. They may have deep psychological problems, and may be speculating over suicide as one solution, but just by the fact that they have sought help, indicates they are quite some way from the ultimate selfish act.

We, of course, must always be ready and willing to help these people, whilst never forgetting the suicide is beyond help – and that, in his twisted logic, is why he died.

It sounds like a tragic waste , you weren't to know this might happen Bkk.

My best friend hung himself at 25 , he had a good job, good mates and a nice GF but apparently these things were not sufficient to stop him from leaving us.

To this day i don't know why he did it , like many I have had ups and downs, but the option to end it all must be hardwired in some people and you mustn't blame yourself in any way ( I've been there and it will eat you up )

BKK - well I'm sure you don't know half of the lad's problems, and it's obvious he had some if he was willing to take a flying leap off a building. I'm sure you were nice enough, but even if you were a bit friendlier I don't see it changing the situation.

I don't understand myself what drives a person to off themselves - simply I can't imagine life being so bad.

Thanks for that Thomas, many things I read true in that.

Look just wanna clarify since some kind soul sent me a PM. I'm going to get a bit drunk now and a bit shocked and I might not sleep clean tonight but please dont worry, I mean it when I say I'm rational, I understand the kid had problems and he died and thats the end of it, just wanted to chat it out a bit and at 3 am in the morning your my online peeps to talk to. I know the first post I was typing as I was thinking and it seemed a bit 'needy' but really everyuthings cool this end but thanks for the support, as much as many of might argue about whatever on here its nice to know that people are out there. Maybe John needed a TV habit too. Just some outlet, a bit of sanity?

I just dont get it though, I dont quite understand why this kid jumped tonight. Is suicide selfish? Is there enough mental capcity before you kill yourself to think of others? I could never do it. I toyed with the idea almost like a plaything a few times before but never seriously coz I know I have ways out of most sitautions, especially when it conecrens these people that kill themselves over money, gfs or work, but how could I do that to my parents? My friends?

Its a f.ucking terrible act at the end of the day but he couldn't have been thinking straight on any level like you and me and everyone else that doesn't do it has. I just wouldn't have expected it from this guy.

edit:

tHX Brit and Chon too. Yeah I wasn't nice to the guy really, blanked him most of the time coz I cant be arsed to chat with people most of the time. Just said hello when I was living on his floor (I've moved to a different level in the appartment now).

Yeah, of course, couldn't help him, and be cool and the gang tomoz, just seeing a kids body after a 19th floor fall kind of messed me tonight.

The reason I write this is to try to say to you, or anyone else who comes into contact with a suicide. There is absolutely nothing you could have done. The mind of a suicide is so complex and determined to complete this act, that by its nature, removes all contact, so you would never be aware of symptoms, and in most cases will be manipulated to hold you away from any suspicions whatsoever.

Those so-called potential suicides you hear about who seek help via the Samaritans or friends and acquaintances, are not real suicides. They may have deep psychological problems, and may be speculating over suicide as one solution, but just by the fact that they have sought help, indicates they are quite some way from the ultimate selfish act.

Not at all true, at least from the professional view. There is no way to say 'how close' someone was to suicide, so that is pure uniformed speculation. (well intended maybe)

There are ways to tell - there are always warning signs if you are close enough to the person, and it usually is not that hard to help out - near to suicide most people will become willing to clutch at any straw of hope.

As for teenagers, they are the second largest demographic of suiciders. part of the reason is the 'they are so young' attitude, 'whole life ahead of them' etc... and no one takes them seriously unless trained to spot the signs. Young people have not learned the character to take charge of their moods and emotions. They are far more at the whim of circumstnce than older people (hence far more treatable).

Take a few minutes to familiarise yourself with some of the warning signs. Obviously all kids have these problems, but when lots of them come up together...

http://www.coolnurse.com/suicide.htm

http://www.yspp.org/aboutSuicide/warningSigns.htm

Take people seriously, especially if you feel they are just trying to get a bit of attention (becuse they genuinely are) but do not make a big deal out of it. Keep calm and rational and ask questions without trying to solve their problems. Get help because you are out of your depth.

I spent 6 years from 16 years of age, sitting on tall buildings and staring at bottles of pills. I also trained later in psychology (which I am not very good at)

Madness, firstly - as RDN said, don't blame yourself in any way whatsoever, he wouldn't have killed himself through lack of interaction with other farangs, there's plenty of places he could have done that.

Secondly, don't feel ashamed that you looked over at the body, your a human curious about death as we all are, that is a perfectly natural thing to do.

Thirdly, I totally agree about the 'someone for farangs to talk to' ...I once said before there should be some kind of 'Samaritans' agency for us fallies, or there should be more of them if there is one, because a lot of us 'escape' to Thailand for reasons that can haunt and catch up with us.

Just don't let this affect you too much, obviously it's upsetting, it would have a big impact on me seeing a young guy splattered on a tennis court, especially one of 'my own' - which isn't to say I wouldn't be unaffected if I saw a dead Thai, far from it, but it must hit home more when it's a fellow fally.

if you've got tennis courts, do you fancy a game some time?

I cant get this image of this kid climbing on his balcony ledge out of my head now, how do people actually go through with that?

Thais say its the 'Ghost' that impels you.

Metaphor for a crazy moment. You're standing on the balcony, baby crying in your arms, won't shut up.....right, you chuck her over.

Surviving jumpers (presumably into water), have reported a moment of reversion to logical clarity the femto-second after the jump...to wit...'that was an unnecessary and imprudent thing to do'

if you've got tennis courts, do you fancy a game some time?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I read that as: "obladioblada life goes on" by our inimitable moogster and it was needed to be said. Having said that, there was a Korean exchange student jumper in my building in Van and it messed with my head for days/weeks actually.

Maddy, you're suffering from being human and a decent one at that. If you can't shake the sadness, take M up on his offer- and clean his clock while your at it!

If you can't shake the sadness, take M up on his offer...

I wouldn't want to take him up on the offer, I wouldn't be able to concentrate on my backspin with people dropping in on us.

If you can't shake the sadness, take M up on his offer...

I wouldn't want to take him up on the offer, I wouldn't be able to concentrate on my backspin with people dropping in on us.

If they miss the court is it in bad taste to yell "Out!" ?

cv

<I just acted in a tennis movie last week at the British Club - details in my blog>.

Ok, my turn.....

When Frenchy hit the ground the Umpire called....."New balls please"

The reason I write this is to try to say to you, or anyone else who comes into contact with a suicide. There is absolutely nothing you could have done. The mind of a suicide is so complex and determined to complete this act, that by its nature, removes all contact, so you would never be aware of symptoms, and in most cases will be manipulated to hold you away from any suspicions whatsoever.

Those so-called potential suicides you hear about who seek help via the Samaritans or friends and acquaintances, are not real suicides. They may have deep psychological problems, and may be speculating over suicide as one solution, but just by the fact that they have sought help, indicates they are quite some way from the ultimate selfish act.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not at all true, at least from the professional view. There is no way to say 'how close' someone was to suicide, so that is pure uniformed speculation. (well intended maybe)

There are ways to tell - there are always warning signs if you are close enough to the person, and it usually is not that hard to help out - near to suicide most people will become willing to clutch at any straw of hope.

As for teenagers, they are the second largest demographic of suiciders. part of the reason is the 'they are so young' attitude, 'whole life ahead of them' etc... and no one takes them seriously unless trained to spot the signs. Young people have not learned the character to take charge of their moods and emotions. They are far more at the whim of circumstnce than older people (hence far more treatable).

Take a few minutes to familiarise yourself with some of the warning signs. Obviously all kids have these problems, but when lots of them come up together...

http://www.coolnurse.com/suicide.htm

http://www.yspp.org/aboutSuicide/warningSigns.htm

Take people seriously, especially if you feel they are just trying to get a bit of attention (becuse they genuinely are) but do not make a big deal out of it. Keep calm and rational and ask questions without trying to solve their problems. Get help because you are out of your depth.

I spent 6 years from 16 years of age, sitting on tall buildings and staring at bottles of pills. I also trained later in psychology (which I am not very good at)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd disagree and say you were quite good at it. Thank you dispelling some of the myths regarding suicide and providing knowledge to the others.

Not only did save me from having to address those issues, you likely worded them better than I would have.

Glad to see you've gotten over it.

The poor guy... and too bad for you, too, BKM for being drawn into it. I don't know if there's anything "considerate" about suicide, but I think the most inconsiderate suicides are the ones who do so in a violent, public manner- a bit like saying "you don't like me world so here's yours," but it's not the world that suffers but individual strangers around the suicide.

I'll join the others in saying that you're no mind-reader, BKM, and it was entirely the guy's responsibility to seek help if he needed it.

A friend of mine lived in a building where this happened to the Thai partner of one of his neighbors, but the Thai partner had an incurable, mortal, and painful disease (cancer, HIV, I don't know) the treatment for which his boyfriend could no longer afford; perhaps in his case if any there was some justification.

I was shocked to find out a few years back that a college friend of mine had killed himself over losing some girl in London. The fool! His family was rich, he was moderately bright, and he had had opportunities I could only dream of. With something like 3 billion girls on the planet, surely he could have found another one to mend a broken heart eventually. It would be too bad, but it could have been something as simple as this.

Ah well chilled today apart from a blinding singha headache which I'm sure a pizza and a movie will cure. Thx for the replies people, as I said, no guilt just a bit shocking yesterday thats all.

Cant play tennis moog, in fact I went out a few times and bought a racquet and that but knocked most of the balls out of the court into the next soi. I even had to get a thai kid sorted out to collect the balls that went astray.

I see the kid didnt make the thai news clippings today, sources a bit slow today George?

Maddy... I just read your O.P on this thread, and well, I have nothing constructive to say, except that I thought you posted it very elonquently and full of feeling. Your O.P. sturck a chord in me, and my haert goes out to all involved in the unfortunate, unecessary death of this kid.

Bless,

Kayo.

Glad to see you've gotten over it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ohhh... Meadish, your original unedited post was, I feel, so powerfully put. A shame to have changed it, but I certainly respect and can understand your decision.

It EXACTLY described one's thoughts at such difficult times.

I thank you for writing it.

I am very glad you, too, are better now.

The poor guy... and too bad for you, too, BKM for being drawn into it.  I don't know if there's anything "considerate" about suicide, but I think the most inconsiderate suicides are the ones who do so in a violent, public manner- a bit like saying "you don't like me world so here's yours," but it's not the world that suffers but individual strangers around the suicide.

This often reflects the degree of anger turned inwards in many suicides, the more public and gruesome ones particularly. Depression can be extremely frustrating and breaking the downward spiral can often times prove almost impossible. The disappointment and anger related to that and is directed at oneself is often overwhelming. This inwardly directed anger is more often seen in men than women as evidenced by the majority of violent suicides being commited by men.

I'll join the others in saying that you're no mind-reader, BKM, and it was entirely the guy's responsibility to seek help if he needed it.

A friend of mine lived in a building where this happened to the Thai partner of one of his neighbors, but the Thai partner had an incurable, mortal, and painful disease (cancer, HIV, I don't know) the treatment for which his boyfriend could no longer afford; perhaps in his case if any there was some justification.

I was shocked to find out a few years back that a college friend of mine had killed himself over losing some girl in London.  The fool!  His family was rich, he was moderately bright, and he had had opportunities I could only dream of.  With something like 3 billion girls on the planet, surely he could have found another one to mend a broken heart eventually.  It would be too bad, but it could have been something as simple as this.

Depression is a complex disorder and stretches our limits of understanding to the brink. Comprehending suicidal motivations is extremely difficult, but rarely is it a sole event, often interpreted by an outsider as something somewhat trivial, that pushes the capacity of the sufferer past the point of containment. Rather, it is more often a build-up of many disappointments and the sole event that outsiders see as the "cause" is more like "the final straw that broke the camel's back." As Pandit eloquently pointed out earlier, many sufferers will throw out signals along the way of their accumulating these bags of burden. It is up to everyone to respond to them. Unfortunately, often these signals might be too subtle for many of us to catch. To be aware that they can and do happen can go a long way to improving the chances of effective intervention.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for your post Steven... and a big thank you to BKKMadness for chronicling his emotions during this tragic event.... and for all the others who shared their thoughts regarding this often-misunderstood occurence.