Farang Kiils Thai In Pool Hall.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Why are people calling the farang a 'murderer'? Perhaps he just 'won'. I'm the last to use the 'innocent until proven guilty' remark, but isn't self defense a possibility here? To all those asking 'what's he doing carrying a knife around with him?' Sounds like he's lucky he had it? I think the better question is , 'what's he doing in a snooker hall?'

Playing snooker?

You're right of course that almost any detail in a first news report tends to be wrong. Best to stick to the high level: there was an altercation and one guy got stabbed, and died.

[LarryBird]

I guess my survival instincts have always told me to steer clear of a snooker hall here. Reading of this, I think they're reasonable.

[Semper]

I guess my survival instincts have always told me to steer clear of a snooker hall here. Reading of this, I think they're reasonable.

You must be joking. The only danger would be driving there and back home with a bike.

[hellodolly]

Got it loud n clear Tywais. I was only reinforcing what WTK said, along with the official TV policy. They're both valid topics now.... and like WTK, was playing up (taking the piss on) the ability of forum members to speculate on and gather innumerable details of a story as it unfolds.

And eventually the grain will separate itself from the chaff as it always does - that is the great truth/utility of this forum. With so many feet on the ground gathering info from friends of friends, in the end a clear, true story reveals itself.

That should have read friends of friends of a cousin of the barkeeper.:jap:

[frankr]

Why are people calling the farang a 'murderer'?

several months ago, Gary was bragging to a few customers about having been in jail for attempted murder concerning another farang. violence does not seem to be a something new with him. will that be reported in the Thai news if he was telling the truth?

[DiamondKing]

I think the better question is , 'what's he doing in a snooker hall?'

Playing Snooker LOL

Cesars is a real nice Snooker Club (Great Tables) been there many times for a game and never seen any trouble, its not a seedy place by any means

I knew this was true because the Cops came looking for me since my name is Gary also and I know the TPD so when they heard a farang named Gary stabbed a guy they called my missus to check if I was out ar that time luckily I stayed in all day and night

DK

[realthaideal]

Just what was in the 'corned beef' then ?

[montrii]

Reading the article carefully--difficult mostly because Thai journalism of this sort is very dry, names all the police officers involved and walks slowly through events--I see that the ex-GI maintained he was attacked by the Thai and was defending himself, that's something I haven't seen mentioned here. Not that I believe or disbelieve him, it seems like the sort of thing one would probably say. But the story is long on details, the blood on the knife and his jeans, which it mentions two or three times, exactly how they contacted him (his wife phoned him), etc. and doesn't get at all into what caused the stabbing. There were eyewitnesses, but apparently the reporter didn't think to ask them what they saw happen. Very odd to a Westerner, but that's how they report this sort of thing, all detailed fact, no looking to motivation or trying to find out what it was really all about.

[montrii]

I was curious, so googled around a bit and came up with this one, which has a little more detail. Both articles, by the way, say that the guy who was killed (nickname Dtoy) was a pretty well-known snooker player, one of the best in Chiengmai. What the second article says is that he and this ex GI, Gary, had played together before and the last time they'd played they'd had a serious argument which didn't get resolved at the time. Gary's story is that when he went into this snooker bar (Caesar's is the name, only in Thai script) Dtoy got in his face and started a fight, Dtoy pulled out a knife and almost stabbed him, at which point Gary pulled out his foot-long switchblade toad-sticker and went at it, stabbing Dtoy five times, three in the chest and two times in the chin, probably means under the jaw, I guess.

So there's a little more gruesome detail, for the morbidly curious. And if you want to know exactly where everybody lived, that's in there, too, go figure! Thai journalism requires it.

[ARISTIDE]

I really hope he gets good lawyer. I hope it's only self defense.

I was curious, so googled around a bit and came up with this one, which has a little more detail. Both articles, by the way, say that the guy who was killed (nickname Dtoy) was a pretty well-known snooker player, one of the best in Chiengmai. What the second article says is that he and this ex GI, Gary, had played together before and the last time they'd played they'd had a serious argument which didn't get resolved at the time. Gary's story is that when he went into this snooker bar (Caesar's is the name, only in Thai script) Dtoy got in his face and started a fight, Dtoy pulled out a knife and almost stabbed him, at which point Gary pulled out his foot-long switchblade toad-sticker and went at it, stabbing Dtoy five times, three in the chest and two times in the chin, probably means under the jaw, I guess.

So there's a little more gruesome detail, for the morbidly curious. And if you want to know exactly where everybody lived, that's in there, too, go figure! Thai journalism requires it.

[uptheos]

I really hope he gets good lawyer. I hope it's only self defense.

Dtoy pulled out a knife and almost stabbed him, at which point Gary pulled out his foot-long switchblade toad-sticker and went at it, stabbing Dtoy five times, three in the chest and two times in the chin, probably means under the jaw, I guess.

So there's a little more gruesome detail, for the morbidly curious. And if you want to know exactly where everybody lived, that's in there, too, go figure! Thai journalism requires it.

If someone (allegedly) ALMOST stabs you and then you pull out a foot long switchblade, stabbing that person three times in the chest and two times in the chin, doesn't exactly sound like self defence to me.

Why carry a foot long switchblade into a snooker hall anyway?

Edited November 17, 2011 by uptheos

[Semper]

Why carry a foot long switchblade into a snooker hall anyway?

For refurbishing the que stick?

[elektrified]

I really hope he gets good lawyer. I hope it's only self defense.

Dtoy pulled out a knife and almost stabbed him, at which point Gary pulled out his foot-long switchblade toad-sticker and went at it, stabbing Dtoy five times, three in the chest and two times in the chin, probably means under the jaw, I guess.

So there's a little more gruesome detail, for the morbidly curious. And if you want to know exactly where everybody lived, that's in there, too, go figure! Thai journalism requires it.

If someone (allegedly) ALMOST stabs you and then you pull out a foot long switchblade, stabbing that person three times in the chest and two times in the chin, doesn't exactly sound like self defence to me.

Why carry a foot long switchblade into a snooker hall anyway?

I agree with uptheos.

Sounds like the accused was in a rage, backed with some emotion.

[hml367]

I really hope he gets good lawyer. I hope it's only self defense.

Dtoy pulled out a knife and almost stabbed him, at which point Gary pulled out his foot-long switchblade toad-sticker and went at it, stabbing Dtoy five times, three in the chest and two times in the chin, probably means under the jaw, I guess.

So there's a little more gruesome detail, for the morbidly curious. And if you want to know exactly where everybody lived, that's in there, too, go figure! Thai journalism requires it.

If someone (allegedly) ALMOST stabs you and then you pull out a foot long switchblade, stabbing that person three times in the chest and two times in the chin, doesn't exactly sound like self defence to me.

Why carry a foot long switchblade into a snooker hall anyway?

What type of knife did the Thai person have, if he had one? Some years ago there were some incidents, I think, where people had handbags cut from their person by people on motorbikes carrying quite large knives.

If someone is in a knife to knife altercation, what is the correct amount of times to reply in kind? Is it tit for tat?

I am not sticking up for either side, I am wondering what people think they would do if they are ever in these instances.

MSPain

Edited November 17, 2011 by hml367

[LarryBird]

Ya, why is the farang assumed to be guilty by virtue of having a knife, when the other guy had one too?

Needless to say, very very very dumb move to go back there.

[LarryBird]

I also like how I'm laughed at for thinking snooker halls were seedy, but two of the guys in there are carrying excalibur like knives..

[Lantern]

Would have thought he could have done just as much damage with a three foot pool cue as he could with a one foot knife.

[CMSteve]

Its not simply by virtue of having a knife, it also has to do with fleeing the scene and arrest. He was "in hiding" for 2 days.....

BTW, self defense laws can be very weird and vary from place to place. As I understand it, back home(NJ) you have no right to do anything until you have already been physically assaulted(first punch) and the only people that can attack without first being hit are the police.

Ya, why is the farang assumed to be guilty by virtue of having a knife, when the other guy had one too?

Needless to say, very very very dumb move to go back there.

[Theyreallrubbish]

Regardless of whether it was self-defense or went too far we should all remember that the man who died had a mother and a father, probably brothers and sisters and possibly a wife and children and certainly friends.

And now he's dead.

My commiserations to all those affected

Regardless of whether stabbing someone five times with a foot long knife was genuinely self-defense, Gary has a wife and young child and they now will also end up on the street as any money he has will have to go to compensation to the family of the deceased and legal bills (above and below the table)

Carrying a weapon and thinking you're a tough guy and then using it can devastate the lives of so many people through one rash act. I wish all the other "tough guys" in the world would learn from this.

[LarryBird]

it also has to do with fleeing the scene and arrest. He was "in hiding" for 2 days.....

Continue on with this, I'm interested in what this implies.

[weary]

I really hope he gets good lawyer. I hope it's only self defense.

Dtoy pulled out a knife and almost stabbed him, at which point Gary pulled out his foot-long switchblade toad-sticker and went at it, stabbing Dtoy five times, three in the chest and two times in the chin, probably means under the jaw, I guess.

So there's a little more gruesome detail, for the morbidly curious. And if you want to know exactly where everybody lived, that's in there, too, go figure! Thai journalism requires it.

If someone (allegedly) ALMOST stabs you and then you pull out a foot long switchblade, stabbing that person three times in the chest and two times in the chin, doesn't exactly sound like self defence to me.

Why carry a foot long switchblade into a snooker hall anyway?

You are expecting a person to dish out a carefully measured amount of violence when somebody has attacked you with a knife. I think you have never ever been in a real street fight, especially not with inebriated people. Adrenaline makes people see red, and people's kill instincts get switched on. Only those with a special type of mental control and combat experience will be able to restrain themselves when somebody has been going at them with the intent to kill. That's why carrying weapons tends to be more dangerous than not carrying any. The threat level increases and both parties are more likely to resort to using the weapons. As long as it's only fists, elbows, knees and teeth, people usually don't die.

[elektrified]

it also has to do with fleeing the scene and arrest. He was "in hiding" for 2 days.....

Continue on with this, I'm interested in what this implies.

It's quite simple (at least in U.S. law) that fleeing the scene of a crime and hiding implies guilt.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

it also has to do with fleeing the scene and arrest. He was "in hiding" for 2 days.....

Continue on with this, I'm interested in what this implies.

It's quite simple (at least in U.S. law) that fleeing the scene of a crime and hiding implies guilt.

But not here.

[elektrified]

it also has to do with fleeing the scene and arrest. He was "in hiding" for 2 days.....

Continue on with this, I'm interested in what this implies.

It's quite simple (at least in U.S. law) that fleeing the scene of a crime and hiding implies guilt.

But not here.

You are probably right about that.

[CMSteve]

Thats true....

remember last year or so. There was a kid who was driving his father's porsche and hit a Laos girl (basically cut her in half). He needed a couple of days to celebrate a holiday and make a visit to the Wat first.

But I'm pretty sure this only applies if you are a rich Thai.

But not here.

You are probably right about that.

[elektrified]

Thats true....

remember last year or so. There was a kid who was driving his father's porsche and hit a Laos girl (basically cut her in half). He needed a couple of days to celebrate a holiday and make a visit to the Wat first.

But I'm pretty sure this only applies if you are a rich Thai.

There was an article in either Time Magazine or one of the other big ones about how the teen-age or adult children (the brat pack) of rich Thai politicians are literally committing murder and none of them are being held accountable.

[DiamondKing]

I was just told who this Gary guy was and I actually had a altercation with him in a bar too, HE IS ABSOLUTELY HORRIFIC and a BULLY and was bullying everyone in the Bar and I had to put him in his place (didnt know he was carrying a foot long blade though

He is really really obnoxious guy and a complete BULLY and when I made the connection it all slotted into place because I can now picture exactly how things went down and I would put my life on it that this Gary guy was the instigator..

Unfortunately sounds like the wrong guy won, and I hope this guy gets whats coming to him.

DK

[uptheos]

I would put my life on it that this Gary guy was the instigator..

You may be right.....but anyone who carries a knife is a possible instigator IMO.

[ARISTIDE]

You know what I hope the accused was, like you said, 'in a rage, backed with some emotion'. I hear that in Thailand the judge can let you walk free if the case is not a predetermined murder. I don't know if that's true or not.

I really hope he gets good lawyer. I hope it's only self defense.

Dtoy pulled out a knife and almost stabbed him, at which point Gary pulled out his foot-long switchblade toad-sticker and went at it, stabbing Dtoy five times, three in the chest and two times in the chin, probably means under the jaw, I guess.

So there's a little more gruesome detail, for the morbidly curious. And if you want to know exactly where everybody lived, that's in there, too, go figure! Thai journalism requires it.

If someone (allegedly) ALMOST stabs you and then you pull out a foot long switchblade, stabbing that person three times in the chest and two times in the chin, doesn't exactly sound like self defence to me.

Why carry a foot long switchblade into a snooker hall anyway?

I agree with uptheos.

Sounds like the accused was in a rage, backed with some emotion.

[hml367]

It's quite simple (at least in U.S. law) that fleeing the scene of a crime and hiding implies guilt.

I US law was "innocent until proven guilty". Implied guilt? What part of the US is that in?

It might be "leaving the scene of a crime" ?

MSPain

Edited November 17, 2011 by hml367