Immigration Rules Eased For Foreign Specialists: Thailand

[webfact]

Immigration Rules Eased for Alien Specialists

The Cabinet has approved a decision to be lenient on immigration and visa rules for foreign specialists employed by Thai or foreign operators to work on the revival of flood-stricken manufacturing facilities.

Deputy Government Spokesman Chalitrat Chandrubeksa said the reports presented at the Cabinet's meeting suggested that 4 of 7 major industrial estates are now completely dry, and their factories are able to resume about 20 percent of their normal operating capacities.

Chalitrat said the remaining 3 flood-hit estates are now in the final stage of rehabilitation and they should resume partial operations sometime next week.

He went on to say the Industry Ministry has offered flood-hit operators with a package of incentives such as debt deferment, long-term loans with lenient conditions, and tariff deductions on imported machines and 21 material items.

The deputy spokesman said 1,444 operators have registered to receive the incentives.

He said the Cabinet approved a waiver of the fee on visa services yesterday, as well as a lift of the legal limit of the stay period of 90 days for foreign specialists or engineers employed by Thai or foreign operators working on the restoration of the flood-hit facilities.

He said the Foreign Ministry has informed Thai embassies and consulates overseas about the decision to ease its immigration rules.

Chalitrut remarked that the Office of the National Economic and Social Development Board said the relaxed rules were proposed by Japan, so the police agency, particularity its immigration body, must be instructed to implement the changes quickly.

He said the fee waivers will be implemented on particular visa codes, namely NON-EX for foreign experts, NON-B for foreigners who visit the country for business reasons, NON-IB for foreign investors or those whose visits are in a connection with the investment promotion law, and NON IM for visitors who are invited by state agencies and NON-O for others who arrived with the aforementioned types of visitors.

-- Tan Network 2011-12-07

[OriginalPoster]

Not really sure what problem this solves. It's people with no skills that have trouble getting visas to stay in Thailand, not "foreign specialists" that legitimate corporations would be interested in hiring. The latter would generally have a company paying for their visa anyway and since they'd have corporate sponsorship and a good salary they never had much trouble getting visas.

Edited December 7, 2011 by OriginalPoster

[ezzra]

Hippocrates, now that they need the so called " experts/specialists they will make

the work permits rules easier.

[Mario2008]

I believe the measure is aimed at maintenance people from foreign companies to repair equipment that got broken down because of the floods. Normally they can get a 15 day work permit, but it seems they now can stay longer without going through all kinds of hoops. It is an important measure to help bring factories back on line, but not meant as a general policy to easy up work permit rules for foreigners.

[Soutpeel]

Hippocrates, now that they need the so called " experts/specialists they will make

the work permits rules easier.

Where is it said they are making WP rules easier ?

They are waiving the fee's for a visa and the 90 day thing is a bit of a red herring anyway, there is no mention of work permits

[OriginalPoster]

Hippocrates, now that they need the so called " experts/specialists they will make

the work permits rules easier.

All they are doing is waiving the fee on the visa and backing off on the 90 day thing. What hasn't changed is that you're still going to need sponsorship of a corporation to get a visa & work permit. it's not a meaningful incentive IMO.

[OriginalPoster]

I believe the measure is aimed at maintenance people from foreign companies to repair equipment that got broken down because of the floods. Normally they can get a 15 day work permit, but it seems they now can stay longer without going through all kinds of hoops. It is an important measure to help bring factories back on line, but not meant as a general policy to easy up work permit rules for foreigners.

I'm surprised to hear that companies have been going the route of 15 day work permits. I would have expected most companies who bring in tech workers for short-term jobs like that to bring them in as tourists. That was one of the flaws in the system - it's very easy to bring a foreign engineer in as a tourist and have him work up to 30 days in your factory but there's a lot of red tape if you want to get him a visa & WP to work for the same period of time. And Thai policy seems to be to look the other way when business visitors come in as tourists.

Edited December 7, 2011 by OriginalPoster

[Soutpeel]

I'm surprised to hear that companies have been going the route of 15 day work permits. I would have expected most companies who bring in tech workers for short-term jobs like that to bring them in as tourists. That was one of the flaws in the system - it's very easy to bring a foreign engineer in as a tourist and have him work up to 30 days in your factory but there's a lot of red tape if you want to get him a visa & WP to work for the same period of time. And Thai policy seems to be to look the other way when business visitors come in as tourists.

A lot of the reputable international companies will not go down the route of bringing someone in as a tourist, they are breaking the law and they know it and will not entertain it

A 15 day temporary WP is very easy to get for most companies

[Mario2008]

two off topic post deleted. This is not about Hippocrates.

[Mario2008]

I'm surprised to hear that companies have been going the route of 15 day work permits. I would have expected most companies who bring in tech workers for short-term jobs like that to bring them in as tourists. That was one of the flaws in the system - it's very easy to bring a foreign engineer in as a tourist and have him work up to 30 days in your factory but there's a lot of red tape if you want to get him a visa & WP to work for the same period of time. And Thai policy seems to be to look the other way when business visitors come in as tourists.

Per Soutpeel's reply.

A businessman is not working if he only does business meetings with a Thai company and his company abroad, normally they wouldn't need a work permit. A repairman is working and would definately need a work permit or a 15 day exemption to make emergency repairs.

[lopburi3]

Flame removed.

[ccarbaugh]

Their generosity is only exceeded

by their gracious hospitality, friendliness

and courtesy!

[a99az]

How magnanimous of them.

[kratiam]

I believe the measure is aimed at maintenance people from foreign companies to repair equipment that got broken down because of the floods. Normally they can get a 15 day work permit, but it seems they now can stay longer without going through all kinds of hoops. It is an important measure to help bring factories back on line, but not meant as a general policy to easy up work permit rules for foreigners.

A common sense reply...........TV does have more than its fair share of "let's attack anything and everything....". The critics of this move should put them selves in the place of those whose employment can't resu\e until the machinery is working again....

[Mario2008]

Some posts deleted as off tpic. This isn't about Thailand immirgaiton policy in general.

[hellodolly]

Hippocrates, now that they need the so called " experts/specialists they will make

the work permits rules easier.

All they are doing is waiving the fee on the visa and backing off on the 90 day thing. What hasn't changed is that you're still going to need sponsorship of a corporation to get a visa & work permit. it's not a meaningful incentive IMO.

You people are forgetting that they can stay up to 90 days on the new visa.

These are not people coming and being sent to live here for ever.

Just do the job and go.

Why do people have a problem with that?

[freedom4life]

How about relaxing immigration issues for married couples(expats) in Thailand? Wake-up and smell the coffee bureaucrats!

[hellodolly]

I believe the measure is aimed at maintenance people from foreign companies to repair equipment that got broken down because of the floods. Normally they can get a 15 day work permit, but it seems they now can stay longer without going through all kinds of hoops. It is an important measure to help bring factories back on line, but not meant as a general policy to easy up work permit rules for foreigners.

I'm surprised to hear that companies have been going the route of 15 day work permits. I would have expected most companies who bring in tech workers for short-term jobs like that to bring them in as tourists. That was one of the flaws in the system - it's very easy to bring a foreign engineer in as a tourist and have him work up to 30 days in your factory but there's a lot of red tape if you want to get him a visa & WP to work for the same period of time. And Thai policy seems to be to look the other way when business visitors come in as tourists.

I think they are talking about reputable companies here not fly by night cut corners companies.

To them it is not a lot of red tape they are familiar with it and perform the required duties the same as you do when you take a dump and clean up. Not a big deal.

[Soutpeel]

How about relaxing immigration issues for married couples(expats) in Thailand? Wake-up and smell the coffee bureaucrats!

The immigration issues have been relaxed for married expat couples, if they are foreign specialists working to clean up after the floods...

[OriginalPoster]

I'm surprised to hear that companies have been going the route of 15 day work permits. I would have expected most companies who bring in tech workers for short-term jobs like that to bring them in as tourists. That was one of the flaws in the system - it's very easy to bring a foreign engineer in as a tourist and have him work up to 30 days in your factory but there's a lot of red tape if you want to get him a visa & WP to work for the same period of time. And Thai policy seems to be to look the other way when business visitors come in as tourists.

Per Soutpeel's reply.

A businessman is not working if he only does business meetings with a Thai company and his company abroad, normally they wouldn't need a work permit. A repairman is working and would definately need a work permit or a 15 day exemption to make emergency repairs.

That would probably explain what I've observed. In my own experience, if upon arrival in Thailand you check on your immigration card that the purpose of your visit is "business" (or whatever similar word they use for it) they will stamp your passport for a Visa-exempt 30 days just as if you were a tourist. If that's illegal, it seems as though Immigration Officers ought to be able to figure that out and not stamp the passport. But most of the cases I've dealt with though are in a gray areas - it might be an engineer coming over to start-up some project but in general they wouldn't be very hands-on people and it could argued to be there just there for meetings.

[OriginalPoster]

I believe the measure is aimed at maintenance people from foreign companies to repair equipment that got broken down because of the floods. Normally they can get a 15 day work permit, but it seems they now can stay longer without going through all kinds of hoops. It is an important measure to help bring factories back on line, but not meant as a general policy to easy up work permit rules for foreigners.

I'm surprised to hear that companies have been going the route of 15 day work permits. I would have expected most companies who bring in tech workers for short-term jobs like that to bring them in as tourists. That was one of the flaws in the system - it's very easy to bring a foreign engineer in as a tourist and have him work up to 30 days in your factory but there's a lot of red tape if you want to get him a visa & WP to work for the same period of time. And Thai policy seems to be to look the other way when business visitors come in as tourists.

I think they are talking about reputable companies here not fly by night cut corners companies.

To them it is not a lot of red tape they are familiar with it and perform the required duties the same as you do when you take a dump and clean up. Not a big deal.

My experience has been primarily with American Fortune 500 companies who play by the book in most regards and are especially sensitive about inducing local scandals overseas. No one wants to be branded as the next Nike or Union Carbide. Nonetheless, it is seldom that technical professionals & technical management have a visa prior to arriving in Thailand, rather they get stamped for 30 days at the airport just as a tourist would.

[Soutpeel]

That would probably explain what I've observed. In my own experience, if upon arrival in Thailand you check on your immigration card that the purpose of your visit is "business" (or whatever similar word they use for it) they will stamp your passport for a Visa-exempt 30 days just as if you were a tourist. If that's illegal, it seems as though Immigration Officers ought to be able to figure that out and not stamp the passport. But most of the cases I've dealt with though are in a gray areas - it might be an engineer coming over to start-up some project but in general they wouldn't be very hands-on people and it could argued to be there just there for meetings.

Based on discussions with immigration over the years:

Case 1 - Business man in Thailand for meetings for prospective work etc, but no actual work awarded/ going on - should be on a Non-imm B, but no WP required,Visa waiver would be considered technically illegal

Case 2 - Engineer for start up - would need full or temp WP dependent on duration required in Thailand

[OriginalPoster]

That would probably explain what I've observed. In my own experience, if upon arrival in Thailand you check on your immigration card that the purpose of your visit is "business" (or whatever similar word they use for it) they will stamp your passport for a Visa-exempt 30 days just as if you were a tourist. If that's illegal, it seems as though Immigration Officers ought to be able to figure that out and not stamp the passport. But most of the cases I've dealt with though are in a gray areas - it might be an engineer coming over to start-up some project but in general they wouldn't be very hands-on people and it could argued to be there just there for meetings.

Based on discussions with immigration over the years:

Case 1 - Business man in Thailand for meetings for prospective work etc, but no actual work awarded/ going on - should be on a Non-imm B, but no WP required,Visa waiver would be considered technically illegal

Case 2 - Engineer for start up - would need full or temp WP dependent on duration required in Thailand

So why don't they turn you back at the airport when you check that the purpose of your visit is "business" on your immigration card and you don't have a visa?

[Soutpeel]

My experience has been primarily with American Fortune 500 companies who play by the book in most regards and are especially sensitive about inducing local scandals overseas. No one wants to be branded as the next Nike or Union Carbide. Nonetheless, it is seldom that technical professionals & technical management have a visa prior to arriving in Thailand, rather they get stamped for 30 days at the airport just as a tourist would.

This is not my experience with MNC's in Thailand, I deal with. Temporary WP's are very easy to get, with a quick turn around time, as is getting the appropriate visa

[Soutpeel]

So why don't they turn you back at the airport when you check that the purpose of your visit is "business" on your immigration card and you don't have a visa?

You would have to ask immigration that, and I believe what you are ticking is your landing card and would suspect they are not even looking.

The stated examples are based on opinions from immigration officals from one of the immigration offices, not at the airport and as always what "head office" says and what happens in reality are generally completely different things...

[khaowong1]

My question is, who are the 1,440 operators who are asking for help? My guess would be, that 1435 of those are Thai companies who wouldn't hire a farang to help them do anything. :-) The others are probably Japanese companies who don't trust the Thai's to do the work necessary.

[OriginalPoster]

So why don't they turn you back at the airport when you check that the purpose of your visit is "business" on your immigration card and you don't have a visa?

You would have to ask immigration that, and I believe what you are ticking is your landing card and would suspect they are not even looking.

The stated examples are based on opinions from immigration officals from one of the immigration offices, not at the airport and as always what "head office" says and what happens in reality are generally completely different things...

I've seen some pretty wildly incorrect opinions on immigration law issued by officials at immigation offices, so I have no difficultly believing that the guy stamping passports at the airport would get it wrong too. But probably we're envisioning completely different work situations and the one that I was envisioning is different from the one that is most commonly taking place during the flood. In past years I was involved in quite a number of cases where a MNC would have a factory in Thailand (and other countries in Asia) and at each factory might have an expat as the MD and maybe one or two lower level employees in-country as expats. But they also had maybe a dozen or two tech specialists who would go off places on short notice - company tells them to be in Bangkok on Thursday so they are in Bangkok on Thursday, then on Thursday they tell them to be in Kaohsiung on Monday so they are in Kaohsiung on Monday, etc. Maybe sometimes they would stay at a particular locale for a couple of weeks or maybe even a month, but maybe not. Often the local HR departments and upper management at the local factory don't even know that they are coming and may not even be clear on what they do for a living. And on the traveling engineer's part, he doesn't have the time or inclination to research the visa requirements for each country so he just goes based upon a corporate Travel Agent's advice. For certain places like China and a few others they'd always have a visa but not for Thailand. Don't actually recall any of them being challenged by immigration though when entering a country. By customs sometimes, but not by immigration.

Edited December 7, 2011 by OriginalPoster

[MaiChai]

I believe the measure is aimed at maintenance people from foreign companies to repair equipment that got broken down because of the floods. Normally they can get a 15 day work permit, but it seems they now can stay longer without going through all kinds of hoops. It is an important measure to help bring factories back on line, but not meant as a general policy to easy up work permit rules for foreigners.

I'm surprised to hear that companies have been going the route of 15 day work permits. I would have expected most companies who bring in tech workers for short-term jobs like that to bring them in as tourists. That was one of the flaws in the system - it's very easy to bring a foreign engineer in as a tourist and have him work up to 30 days in your factory but there's a lot of red tape if you want to get him a visa & WP to work for the same period of time. And Thai policy seems to be to look the other way when business visitors come in as tourists.

If someone flies in for a business meeting or a couple of days work, why would they bother to go to all the hassel of getting a visa? Just come in on a tourist visa. Well thats what they used to do at the co I worked for. Most people get a month on a tourist visa, which is long enough to fix up equipment. Seems a bit pointless. Maybe its only showing face?

Edited December 7, 2011 by MaiChai

[witsawakorn]

Not really sure what problem this solves. It's people with no skills that have trouble getting visas to stay in Thailand, not "foreign specialists" that legitimate corporations would be interested in hiring. The latter would generally have a company paying for their visa anyway and since they'd have corporate sponsorship and a good salary they never had much trouble getting visas.

Way to try and turn a small positive into a negative. Who wants to pay for an expensive tech to spend hours at government offices at hundreds of $ per hour when he could be done in 1. Also some techs have problems getting WPs if they don't have a degree.Relaxation of qualifications requirements could help.

Edited December 7, 2011 by witsawakorn

[tombkk]

Interesting. One wonders whether this relaxation was triggered by altruism.